So here's a query..

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#1 Aug 9 - 4PM

ShaynasMommy

So here's a query..

So, if they have such problems with committment, why do some of them marry? If they only seem to marry to secure female supply that they are reasonably sure that they can squash into submission, but on the other hand, that kind of person makes them sick to their stomachs, how does that make sense? My N was a confirmed non-marrying type, although he strung me along for years and did the same with the next one and the next....

What am I missing here? It seems they are only setting themselves up for a messier break up when the inevitable final D&D happens. ???

any ideas?

#2 Aug 10 - 1PM

janine

Thanks, Shayna'sMommy

for pointing out what an important part I had missed. Sorry, I really should read more carefully, when English is not my native language. So he did not want to marry you and then married someone else, and she was FAT. Doesn't it show you how contradictory they are? Their needs keep changing from minute to minute. I noticed, that, too. Well, as you say, thanks God you got away without the added problem of a divorce!

#3 Aug 10 - 1PM (Reply to #34)

ShaynasMommy

It's OK friend,

And sometimes my fingers type faster than I think so I don't always get the thought complete on the page. Yes, they are walking contradictions. They don't know their heads from their assess, which is why I propose a new revolutionary surgical treatment that may fix the problem: Cranial-Rectal Inversion Therapy (TM)

#4 Aug 10 - 8PM (Reply to #35)

loveofmylife

Cranial-Rectal Inversion Therapyâ„¢

OMG, I am laughing so hard!!!!! As the self-appointed trademark attorney on this site - I will immediately start work on trademarking this very groundbreaking procedure! They are such WALKING CONTRIDICTIONS! It is sooooo madening because they don't see it! They hold themselves out to be virtuous/perfect people, but then they lie to our faces and gossip behind our backs. But somehow they still believe that they are perfect and therefore, deserve someone else who is perfect. (i guess lying, cheating, manipulating, being 2 faced, gossipping - were all somehow warranted in their twisted little minds) I too, was disgarded as "relationship material", becuase I am 10 pounds overweight now. I fall out of the "perfect" category. It makes you see how shallow these guys really, really are! When you are so emotionally connected to someone and share so much of your life with them and then they decide (and tell others) that this is the factor that excluded me from the relationship category. I am no longer hot. But it is like these guys have the "jerry seinfeld" syndrome. Every woman has a fatal flaw. And maybe if he cycle through 1 million women, he will find the one perfect one!

#5 Aug 10 - 8PM (Reply to #36)

Susan32

The reverse Dorian Gray

My ex-Psych professor always made a BIG DEAL about my food portions, about his father's diabetes (something he didn't make up, but a fact he used for control) He'd tell me I'd get fat. During the D&D, I lost my appetite. I had to make myself eat, I was that drained. As for my ex-P, I saw his looks DECLINE over 4 years. He went from being naturally tanned, handsome, and slender, able to open his shirt to his navel... to having front tire paunch, crows' feet and a double chin (his teeth were ALWAYS bad&looked like smoker's teeth). Not a pretty sight. With my ex-P, it wasn't the search for the perfect woman, so much as the perfect HUMAN. And he seemed to prefer men to women anyhow. My former N boss at least cared about his health. My ex-P was soooo disconnected from his own body he'd harp about MY weight instead of his. My ex-N boss was at least vain enough to care about himself.

#6 Aug 10 - 12PM

janine

Commitment????

What on earth do you mean by that? The fact that he's signed a piece of paper? That he'll be around, when he has nothing better to do? The only commitment he sees is yours. Since everyone needs a place to stay, it's of advantage to have you there: The place will be cleaner than it would be without you. Meals will be cheaper. Free sex. More time and energy for other supply. Someone to help pay the bills, sort out whatever mess he creates. And you will enhance his status with your style, beauty, brain and whatever skills he chose you for in the first place. Unadulterated pragmatism. Just make sure you keep your side of that commitment. My ex-lover's former wife was a great cook. He enjoyed that. "But then," he told me, "cooking for me and the kids every day she kept eating too much and got FAT" (worst sin there is). Guess what happened to her?

#7 Aug 10 - 12PM (Reply to #32)

ShaynasMommy

I guess you missed something in my post, Janine

I am fully aware that the extent of their committment only goes as far as what is convenient for them, and no, they don't care per se about a piece of paper. My confusion over it is that I gave him everything you listed and more, and he still wouldn't marry me.(Thank God)Because he didn't have to. In fact, he married someone else, who, ironically WAS FAT to begin with. So, I guess the question was really, what would it take for a commitment phobic N to take that legal plunge, full well knowing that in the case of a divorce he could really lose his ass if the wife got fed up enough and went for the jugular. There have been a good variety of answers given here by other ppl, but maybe the best one is that there really isn't a good reason why these crazy fuckers do what they do in the first place. Or maybe some think if they throw her that little bone of legality, then magically, she will transform into a vision of perfection and finally fullfill their every fantasy and make good on her obligations to him. And that's basically why my Narc and I (and I suspect many others like myself on this board)are not compatible. Because I see marriage as an emotional committment that someone should be overjoyed to make with their loved one. He sees it as a piece of paper. A way to "get stuff."

#8 Aug 10 - 7AM

helldweller

loveofmylife

Mine also waved that giant red flag above his head at our first meeting, which happened to be his fiftieth birthday. I said, 'So have you done everything you wanted to do by the time you were fifty?' He answered, 'There's nothing I really wanted to do (?) except I wanted to have a child by now.' I laughed and said, 'I notice a wife doesn't come with that' and he stared at me calmly and said, 'I don't really think about that.' Now it chills me to the bone.

#9 Aug 10 - 9AM (Reply to #30)

loveofmylife

helldweller

its because he is androgenous

#10 Aug 10 - 5AM

awayfromhim

I asked my therapist once

I asked my therapist once why he stayed with me. I was the one who filed for divorce (go me) but, damn, the guy abused the hell out of me, majority of the time behaved as if he could not stand me, so, why stick around? For 30 years? Her reply: it was easier to keep you. Oh.

#11 Aug 10 - 1AM

broken23

Trying to make sense of

Trying to make sense of their behavior is like hitting your head against a brick wall. The only thing i know for sure is that they do stuff because its self-serving So for one narc it may be because he cant be alone, another may want to be catered to, another may want to bolster his image, some may want a child. As long as they see some benefit to themselves. Funny how naive I was..only if i married him...things would get better! Well i guess i should be glad that day never came!

#12 Aug 9 - 9PM

almostlydia

I think mine had the grand

I think mine had the grand plan. He would marry me because he enjoyed the appearance of 'normal' that I represented and he could hang out with me as he did for 10yrs perfectly content as long as he could have his secret life on the side. And he had successfully had it for 10 yrs so why would he think he couldn't continue to do so. He could never see the reality of how it would actually pan out only that it was the ideal plan for him to have it all his way. He certainly didn't see the fact that I would have probably shot him in the end and called it temporary insanity. And it would've been. I saw it however and that's why I have a golf club under my bed instead of a gun. I recognized my limitations:)

almostlydia

#13 Aug 9 - 8PM

helldweller

marrying

This makes perfect sense to me. We were just about to get engaged, and then he brought in a better supply who would kiss his ass for a good ten years, no questions asked (a four-year-old), including letting him see all the girl and boyfriends he wants. When they visit, the girl- and boyfriends just buy the kid some play dough and string cheese and send him down to their basements to watch t.v. while they and the narc screw around and drink. The narc gets his five or six girl or boyfriends, looks like a saint, and has the kid sit in his lap and say "I love you" constantly. It's narc Heaven. God forbid any other narcs are reading this. I wonder sometimes what would have happened if the child hadn't shown up just then. Would he have actually married me? I doubt it. I asked him all the time, how could you commit your life to this child who isn't even yours and tell me to abort our own baby? He would just shrug his shoulders, but Iknew the answer: "Because the baby is attached to YOU, helldweller."

#14 Aug 10 - 1AM (Reply to #25)

girlfriday

So harsh, Helldweller. I

So harsh, Helldweller. I can't imagine the gravity of that kind of mindf**k. So evil.

#15 Aug 9 - 7PM

Klarity Belle

Lazy too!

Lets not forget how lazy these N's are - to secure a woman who can earn her own living, keep a nice home and run around to his beck and call, the numbers just add up for a narc. I see it in my xN's wife's eyes and body language - she is absolutely shattered, working full time (main earner), primary parent to an 18 month yr old who she runs to and picks up from childminder, and keeps an immaculate home, shops and cooks. Meanwhile The N gets to play the 'big I am' at work and flirt with young female employees, come home and laze around playing computer games, eat a nice meal and then trawl the internet for porn hits while his exhausted wife has crashed out. It is only when the primary supply starts to make her own demands that the narc starts the real D&D. I truly feel for her and my daughters' baby half sister. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The deeper that sadness carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Kahlil Gibran "That which we do not confront in ourselves we meet as fate" ~ Carl Jung http://www.storyofmylife.com/KLARITY4

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The deeper that sadness carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Kahlil Gibran

"That which we do not confront in ourselves we meet as fate" ~ Carl Jung

http://www.storyofmylife.com/KLARITY4

#16 Aug 10 - 7AM (Reply to #23)

Used

klarity belle

this is so true, when i told my exh to go after 31 years, he said i would never of left you, other men wouldhave left you, cos you are always ill, i stayed .this is why he stayed, he never worked, he was in and out of prison, i was his punchbag[ but i kept quiet about it], i was his listener to all his garbage, i was the one left with our kids to keep, when he went on the run[from police] sending money to him, while we had none, i was his wife his mother his protector, i backed him up in every lie,and con he pulled, thats why he didnt leave me, no other reason, i was everything rolled into one, he was a nothing, he,has found out it is a cold cruel world out there now, but i am still to blame, not him, yeah right, and i couldnt care less, i also couldnt care less how he slag,s me off, with the poor me line, he used to keep his temper for just me, he doesnt now, well he hasent got me to direct it to any more, so there you go. i dont even wish karma would knock on his door, he is so pathetic.

#17 Aug 9 - 9PM (Reply to #17)

loveofmylife

Klarity belle

It is only when the primary supply starts to make her own demands that the narc starts the real D&D. Yep, and those demands could be as simple as asking for clarity about what the relationship is. That is way to mind-boggling for a narc to ponder and BOOM ....D&D

#18 Aug 10 - 11AM (Reply to #22)

NoNarcingZone

Ask & you shall NOT receive!

I've always been a bit 'bossy'. I like structure! I stepped aside when we became a family. There I sat...waiting for my N/SH to step up as 'head of household'. Never happened. Important papers not turned in. Missed appts. He was purposefully doing these things because I would remind him (1x) to do them. He didn't like that. He punished me by not doing them. I explained that I'm not used to following the lead of somebody who's going in circles. I got word salad/narc speak as a response. HIM: "Well, I like only stepping up when you need me to be the man." (Tsshhh! That day NEVER came!) I learned to ask NOTHING of him. He couldn't deliver - regardless of simplicity. p.s. 'Loveofmylife' your androgynous comment to Helldweller had me on the floor LMAO!!! Brilliant. ---------------------------------------- "That soldier confused his rank with MY authority!"

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"Soldier, don't confuse your rank with MY authority!"

#19 Aug 10 - 6AM (Reply to #18)

Bodhi

Yup

When I started voicing my expectations he started devaluing me.

#20 Aug 10 - 8AM (Reply to #19)

naivenomore

Exactly!

Like, "I just want to come first once every 10 times, instead of your adult daughters!"

#21 Aug 10 - 12PM (Reply to #20)

Used

work

i had the cheek to ask him to get a job after 28 years of bieng out of work, [looking after me was what he would tell people, thats why he didnt work apparently] he got a job, but i then saw the man behind the mask every dayinstead of every week. best thing i ever asked him too do, cos the die was cast, i just didnt relize it.

#22 Aug 10 - 1PM (Reply to #21)

ShaynasMommy

Boy does THAT sound familiar!

When I put my foot down and insisted he start pulling his weight financially, be basically started to blame me for the shitty behavior. It was my fault he was a cranky ass who had to endure getting up every day to go to a job. Oh, it hurts to be responsible (sob).....

#23 Aug 9 - 7PM

wholeagain

There are probably all kinds of reasons

In my case I wonder if it wasn't that he was getting older and wanted to make sure he had supply for the long haul. I'm about 15 years younger than he is and it was always assumed that I'd outlive him. So...he'd have someone to take care of him in his dotage. Also I was a good front for him. I made up for a lot that he probably knew he wasn't. There were many times when he said that he knew he was hard to deal with, and that was true...but also played right into my fighting spirit--I will conquer this! Even after everything I've written and all the wacky stuff he did it's still hard to get my mind around the fact that he didn't love me the way I think of love. I don't know if I'll ever be able to grasp that, because he did seem to change in some ways over the last 8 years or so. But so much damage had been done, I think it was a ticking time bomb within me...didn't take but a glimpse of the old behavior for me to leave. I'm having a guilty day, because I was the one that left.

#24 Aug 9 - 7PM

NoNarcingZone

There's simply no logic

There's simply no logic behind the madness known as the Narc! They LOVE the messy break-ups. It's DRAMA! Supply & drama is how they exist. A normal person doesn't require supply - for the most part, we're self-sufficient. Drama?...tshhh...we run from it! Ns are the opposite. My N/SH's life before me was shitty, our dating years were semi-shitty, his proposal was truly shitty, our marriage was the shittiest! Dollars to doughnuts - his existence will ALWAYS be the SHITS! That alone made eliminating him easy for me. (I REALLY can't stand him today!) Ugh!

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"Soldier, don't confuse your rank with MY authority!"

#25 Aug 9 - 9PM (Reply to #14)

loveofmylife

Messy breakups

Yes, they love them because it is drama and it gives that CONTROL and POWER! (insert Tarzan yell here)

#26 Aug 9 - 6PM

Susan32

It's all about image

Yeah, my D&D was relatively clean because my ex-Psych and I were NOT romantically/sexually involved, and certainly weren't living together. There was none of the messiness that sex involves. Still, I think it's about image. My ex-Psych didn't mind that he&I came across as a romantic couple (in addition to being teacher/student) So, after being the teacher who had "honorably" rejected an enamored student on principle... he married the long-distance curator girlfriend from Los Angeles. She was a strong, independent, financially secure woman;she even kept her maiden name after they wed. He dumped the unemployed, naive, virgin college student 15 years his junior (me) for the experienced, financially secure career woman 5 years his junior (the OW). Of course, marrying and having kids gave him the Family Man image. But it's his parents who are raising the kids.

#27 Aug 9 - 6PM

herlatestvictim

They hate being alone!

My understanding is that they marry to avoid being alone, even though they end up making their spouse miserable, lie and cheat all the time and avoid intimacy at all costs. I also agree with the other posters that their is something to be gained for them, usually financial, like buying a home and the IMAGE of being a secure, stable married person. My ex- N has lived with g/f for nearly 2 years. The g/f is verbally and emotionally abused, has caught the N cheating numerous times(has proof, by email and networking sites) YET they remain together. I think the N LOVES a source that they can count on, beat up on, and still have many other sources on the side! They never have to be alone, always have someone to rage against... sickos.

#28 Aug 9 - 9PM (Reply to #11)

Lim

They hate being alone

My N said his biggest fear was being alone. He has been married for 20 years and his poor wife has no friends, no life, no confidence, no self-esteem. And he did nothing but bitch because she only worked part-time, sat on the couch, and hung out with her parents. I was stupid and naive enough to believe him until the D&D. I now know that poor woman is in a living hell. I so wish I could somehow steer her to this site. Yes, they love a supply source that they can count on and take advantage of. That's all they know how to do...take advantage of people.

#29 Aug 9 - 5PM

Steph

Well, it doesn't make sense.

Well, it doesn't make sense. Nothing about them is rational. As far as getting married....well I suppose for status, financial security etc. But just because some marry, does not mean they are "committed". Not at all. They cheat and lie. Whether they marry or not, I would say they are still not capable of true committment.

#30 Aug 10 - 1AM (Reply to #9)

stayingstrong78

They marry not for commitment or love. Mine cheated & lied. Married me for the house...and possibly the illusion of "family man". And we had a great daughter together. He paraded her around (still does after the divorce) and I raised/nurtured her. (made sure she spends more time with me than him after divorce). I became "boring" when I said "We can't afford...." or "Let's cut back". Practical. I am waiting for him to hit the bottom.

#31 Aug 9 - 9PM (Reply to #8)

loveofmylife

Why they marry?

My perspective is because I think that many Ns want children....it further their conquest and dominance of the world! My N, before he got married and when I was pregnant, used to say he was so jealous, because he "really wanted kids". Not that he wanted a wife and then a family.... he just wanted kids.

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