Responding to Contact

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#1 Dec 2 - 12PM

Done sourcing

Responding to Contact

It seems many of us (me included for sure) get too much confidence as a result of going No Contact. Story after story we tell how well we are doing, or how shitty we are doing, but we always say "I am staying strong and maintaining No Contact".

Then they contact us. And we fold, and give in, and let them back in for yet another cycle of pain and abuse, lies and manipulation.

And then at some point, usually after the next d and d, we report back here that one more time it didn't work out so well. And we tell ourselves we learned more through this current devastation, and now we know so much more, and are really ready to go No Contact for real.

But we don't talk nearly enough about NO RESPONSE when the narc calls. And they will call. Almost all of the time. And some of us are secretly waiting for that day. We lie to ourselves and say we are not. Or we tell ourselves we won't respond. And that is fine for those of us who don't respond.

But I am talking to the other one's like me...the one's that fall for the contact, want to get re-involved with the narc, and get sucked back into the same misery and lies that we worked so hard to get out of.

Maybe a discussion of what you would do if the narc called today is in order. Maybe a discussion of what you want to do. Maybe a discussion of what you should do. Maybe looking at what happens to others will help get our thinking real straight as to what we really want out of life. And what we are willing to do to get it!

I get so sad when one of us gets used again. It is so pointless, and so hopeless.

None of this pain can happen without either contact or response. If we don't do those two things, we can be safe forever from the tentacles of their web of chaos and deceit!

My two cents...

#2 Dec 6 - 3AM

destiny (not verified)

DS- thanks for posting

DS- thanks for posting this... as this is what just happened to me yesterday. i thought i was strong..made it clear to narc i would be blocking him etc... but he got thru on an email i didnt block... and i replied with yet another message telling him we are done. im glad he blocked me from his cell phone and texts... a true coward in hiding... but thankful that he did...as this allowed me to directly leave a msg on the home line that we were done. no emotions nada..just done. it is a step...next time i will not answer at all....i said i was done and this time i must mean it... like you said i was really so thrilled to have blocked my cell phone from him ... being stronger this time...but was not prepared for his reply many days later. he caught me off guard..ugh im better prepared when he comes back again which he said he would be in touch (so sick) and im sure he will be retaliating for me calling the home line with the backup woamn there to hear... if i could i would block him from my land line... but so far cant figure out how to block cell phones on there. reality is he was really too cruel today for my liking and i am starting to fear him...

#3 Dec 3 - 8AM

really

I think this is a great

I think this is a great discussion and that an 'Action Plan' is essential to not succumbing when the N reappears. I posted here a couple weeks ago about this happening to me after two years of silence. I don't have the same emotional ties to him I once had. I know he is a disordered individual and any meaningful contact with him will land us right back where we were. I'm committed to NC and unwavering in my belief that he is an N and that it creates the behavior patterns for his life. Even with that knowledge, it was a challenge to deal with the contact. The hardest part was that I had to NOT be myself. That's the only way I can explain it. With a normal person, I could make a quick call or send an email or mail a card to say that I was sorry his dog was sick, etc, etc. With the N, I couldn't and that required me to be something other than who I am. That was the hard part. I had to let time pass and trust that I know what he is in order to get over the urge. And I realized that the reason I could not react "normally" is not because I've become a callous person, but because that is how I have to be with HIM in order to deal with HIM ONLY. It's because of HIM that I cannot be myself, but that only has to be true with HIM. There is still some sort of instant connection, some 'hit', something like turning on a switch, that happens when I hear or see anything about him. That switch must stay turned OFF and the only way to do that is with NC. I share this because even when you are committed, even when you have a plan, even when you are committed to the plan, the challenge is still there. In order to effectively deal with it, you have to put your mind and past experience over any emotions you are feeling at the time because the contact alone brings back feelings that are part of their programming that allowed you to stay involved with them in the first place. It sounds easy until it happens. Stay the course, don't engage -- ever!

#4 Dec 6 - 9AM (Reply to #36)

spinning

Really, this is brilliant...

so true and so right on. It really speaks to me. Thank you for sharing this. Non-engagement is the key to liberation and happiness. Stay strong and be blessed! Most sincerely, (not) spinning. I REJECT ALL CHAOS AND CONFUSION

spinning

#5 Dec 3 - 9AM (Reply to #35)

onwithmylife

Really

In your response to DS post, which was great, you hit the hammer on the nail. the narc is the ONLY person I had had to become DIFFERENT with and not myself, to everyone else on the face of the earth i am ME, it is remarkable; your post resonated with me so much.We were not allowed to be normal with these people.

#6 Dec 2 - 11PM

uk lady

Hi DS

Good observation. I fell for it by receiving an email a couple of days ago which I thought was from him, to him supposedly from the NS. Turned out it was spam but it sure as hell didn't look like spam and because he had done this exact same thing to me in the past, I exploded with fury and indignation - how dare he. Before I knew what I was doing, I responded by ripping into him with all guns blazing. If it had been a nice, kind message enquiring after my health and how I was doing etc, I strongly feel that I would have been able to stay NC but it was the triggering of his past exact action that blew my NC. I felt violated all over again and in the past I would have just got upset and waited for an explanation. But now my personal boundaries are stronger I just let him have it. He replied that I am mad and that my email was horrible. I calmly told him that I am not mad, the email was not horrible but pure facts and that the only mad thing I had ever done was being associated with him for 22 years when it shouldn't have got past 22 minutes. Yes, not exactly kind but I was still steaming. Much like a pressure valve being released. Upshot, have now blocked his email which would go into junk folder but have since decided that I must junk the junk folder too as I don't want to hear from him ever again whether intentionally or, unintentionally. I now view it as it being my last opportunity to get all my anger about him, back at him, out of my system. I am calm again now and feel good about putting in place better protective boundaries to avoid it happening again. So, I will be grateful for his eternal ST and I shall remain safe in the knowledge that my barriers are stronger and that I can continue NC without being triggered. I don't want him, his new NS is so welcome to him. Funny thing is, is that he never admits to new NS because I feel that he always wants to leave all the NS doors open. So disrespectful to past supply and the new NS - what a scumbag. But nothing new there then!!! Nearly 8 months out now and feel fine the majority of the time but in retrospect I felt maybe I needed to do what I did on Wednesday - much like final nails in his coffin. Thank you assclown - so far as I am concerned the circus has moved to another town. I never really liked the circus in any event so I am not sad. Thanks DS for letting me get that off my chest. Dee x

#7 Dec 2 - 9PM

Winter

Amazing post DS!

Indeed we should consider it is a project, wich has its risks and really manage it as a project, make a plan and put it in action, regardless of how we feel. There is no place "to go with the flow". The goal of the project is the healing, the recovery. What it takes? NC. Risks: hover and our emotional reaction to it. We need to imagine different scenario of the hover and make a plan of what we will do in each of the scenario. And we need to manage the risk. Like decide that we will come here when too emotionnaly overwhelmed, re-read our journals lines which we wrote being in the acute pain,... I mean a real plan of actions. Maybe this plan of actions need to be elaborated here. I could resist all the hover attempts, except only one, but it was a concious and not a compulsive decision and I did not regret it later and I still don't. It had not had impact on my healing. Love Winter

#8 Dec 2 - 8PM

Redhead1

Its funny you start this

Its funny you start this thread. You guys always know what has been on my mind. I had contact for the first time in over a year. It was 2 wks ago at a funeral for the abusers brother. His brother took his own life. That's the reason I question if narcs do commit suicide. The abuser and his brother are sooooo much alike. The narcs uncle even told him he thought we would all be gathering because of him instead of his brother. I was scared going in because it was out of state and the only support I had were my 2 children 20 & 21 yrs. old. He baited me and tried to engage me. I held strong. It was save me or save him, I chose me. When I didnt bite the bait, my son said he kept talking about a girl he is dating and how hot she was. I was in the room and was suppose to hear this, but I tuned him out so I didnt hear it. I just saw him for who he truely was while I was around him. His brother had just taken his life and he was trying to jab at me. All about him. I do feel so sorry for their sister. She is a totally different person than most of her family. She is 5 months pregnant and had to identify her brothers body. My heart broke for her. She was really supportive of me and validated me throughtout the marriage and divorce to the narc. These narcs just don't know the anguish they cause to people who just want to love them. After the encounter, I cried for myself for the first time. There was truely nothing I could have done to change our relationship. As matter of fact, I am going to hug myself. Also, the whole family dynamics situtation was obvious at the funeral and the meal afterward. My children saw a glimpse of why their father is so messed up. BUT, none of that weekend would have been possible without you guys help! It was a tuff encounter and I had some CD and moments of spinning, nothing I couldnt over come. I suspect things will keep getting better in my life as long as I work on me. Didnt mean to write a book, but DS I like this post. It something everyone should think about before it happens.

#9 Dec 2 - 8PM

freaked

DS, this post is priceless

DS you post is worth countless dollars...not 2 cents!! I will remember this... NO RESPONSE ever again to all that pity play by Mr Hyde

#10 Dec 2 - 7PM

ruby01 (not verified)

If he

text me, no problem I would not respond. If he called me I would not answer, because if I did he would just continue messing with my head til I would lose control of what the hell I was suppose to be doing.

#11 Dec 2 - 7PM

Susan32

Getting the call

A former Narc coworker of mine tried to call me last night. This was the man who'd throw plates at the wall (I work in a kitchen), and whose girlfriend (who earned more than him) always had mysterious ankle&wrist injuries. He'd also come to work drunk. I thought the call was from work last night... it had my region's area code. It took him a loooong time for him to introduce himself. He didn't say, "Hi, I'm ---." He went around the point. I was already tired, so my response was "I'm sorry" and hanging up. The second time he called, I didn't answer. He's not my boyfriend. I don't care. I'm NOT calling him back. He doesn't deserve it.

#12 Dec 2 - 7PM

bumblebee

Really glad you brought up this discussion

Texts - I could definitely ignore Calls / Voicemails - I have ignored because they were half-assed on his part as far as I'm concerned If he showed up and said I'm sorry I screwed up, I miss you, etc - he would FINALLY be displaying the effort that I had been dying for him to show all that time, and right now, here is what would happen: I'd probably let him in. I would listen to him, his words would wash over me quickly because they always do - to the point where he could pull me over, kiss me, start to undress me, etc... and I would being thinking in my head, "This isn't what I should be doing!!! Ah!" and in all honesty, by the time my thoughts would be screaming this, I would think, "But I've let him do this up to this point - I've sent one message and if I stop and get up - I'd be sending a mixed message and that's just rude." And then I would proceed to push the "Stop!" voice out of my head until after we had sex. And then, I'd come back to reality - get up quickly, get dressed, say we can never see each other anymore, and ask him to leave. And he would. Sooo... step #1 for me is for me to never let him in and step #2 is to keep working on me and my self-esteem so even if he did come in, I could have the strength to tell him to leave before anything happened. Really glad you asked this question DS!

#13 Dec 2 - 6PM

Goldie

Great topic Done

I think the true issue lies in the thinking BEFORE the hoover attempt is made. IF the thinking is solid and focused on recovery and what a PD truly is and what the PD actually has done to DESTROY your life, the end result will be, NOT to answer or respond to the hoovering attempt at all. I believe that the true problem lie's in the thinking which preceeds the hoover attempt. These are some of the hurdles which I see the members face consistantly here on the forum: He really does love me; he just had a bad childhood and has trouble expressing his feelings. He may not even be a narc, so in my particular case I need to respond, he may have changed. The sex was the best sex I ever had so even if he is a narc an occasional role in the hay is not going to hurt me, afterall this is the one area where we really do connect and he really does love me. He does not really love the OW; he loves me. She is a skank or a screw up. I am really the one who has been there for him and afterall he did say that I am the only one who understands him and he is able to love and be completely real with me and comfortable with me. Maybe it was all me. Maybe I am a bitch. A nag. Crazy. Difficult for him to deal with. Maybe if I change and stop giving him a hard time, he will be different now. Afterall this is what he has been telling me all along that it is my fault. Maybe it is. He sounds so sorry in his text, email, voicemail, maybe he really does get it and is sorry and things will be better this time. I have to prove to him that I am better than OW. She does not understand or love him like I do. I need the chance to spend some time with him so that I can show him that he should choose me over the OW. I have been on the site now for 3 months. I understand about PD's and what is wrong with them. I can do things differently now and make this work. I have never felt this way about anyone in my life. I love him with all of my heart and I don't care what anyone says, if he wants to see me I am going to see him. Blah blah blah!!! If these thoughts change and there is growth and understanding about who and what a PD is, the end result regarding breaking NC will be different. Narc calls, texts, emails, voicemails, shows up at house: This man has cheated on me, lied to me, used me, insulted me; I want nothing to do with him; I will not respond to any of this. This man has hit me, stolen from me, destroyed my property. He is a piece of shit. He has engaged me in sexual perversion which I am ashamed of and he makes me sick. I will not respond to any of this. This man has hurt my feelings, not been there for me, lied to me, refuses to help me, is a drug addict, a porno freak; I will not respond to any of this. This man has taken full advantage of my goodness, I have bought him beautiful gifts, made him wonderful meals, given in to all of his sexual demands, and still he does not care about my needs; I will not respond to any of this. This man has been cruel to my children, violated our marriage vows, treated me like a piece of garbage; I will not respond to any of this. This man has made a mockery out of anything that is real or good to me, is not the least bit spiritual. I have given up huge pieces of myself to keep him happy; I will not respond to any of this. This man has destroyed my life, my heart, and my soul, kept me waiting, lied to me, played me as the fool; I will not respond to any of this. This man has never really been there for me, what is important to me is of no interest to him, and it is all about him; I will not respond to any of this. Ect, ect, ect.... Once the thinking about who and what he really is CHANGES; than the reactions to the hoovering attempts will change. Understand it and you will not want it anymore. Do the work on yourself and you will automatically not respond to any of this. Read the steps; work the steps; talk to the moderators about the steps. Move forward in your recovery AND. You will NOT respond to any of this. God bless, Goldie

#14 Dec 2 - 11PM (Reply to #20)

TNR1

I'm just going to be honest

I'm just going to be honest because there is no point in lying. Had Mr. N not ended things via a text message, I would not have ended it with him. I do not currently know how I would react if he were to contact me...and I can't definitively say I would not text back or take his call. I am taking this day by day and today was a good day because I did not have to make the choice whether or not to respond because he did not contact me.

#15 Dec 3 - 12AM (Reply to #21)

Done sourcing

Your honesty is sincere, and

Your honesty is sincere, and that is so important in this discussion. Without honesty we can't possibly get to the heart of the issue. Btw, I had a difficult time even knowing what I felt for so long after the d and d, that I couldn't even have spelled honest. Looking at what I was and am really feeling is so important, especially when we are talking about this issue of responding to a surprise attack. When I am uncertain, afraid, unsure, overwhelmed, or maybe just plain lonely, I am extra vulnerable. Maybe I need something akin to an emergency kit, like people use in a tornado or earthquake. A default setting to turn to when the shit hits the fan. An impulsive weak moment can have catastrophic after-effects. Look how many have left this site who were so sure of themselves and positive they were cured. Some of them are back in the sickness due to getting hoovered and taking the bait. I need to remember that this is life and death for me. It is about saving me versus giving the narc some supply relief when she is scrambling around for attention. That is the reality. They will say exactly what they think we want to hear, that is their special talent. lie and tell us anything to get their fix. So maybe we need to practice by guessing what it is they will say and break it down now while we have distance and strength. It might be as simple as not forgetting that their actions never match their words. Look to the action. Not the words. Look at their behavior. Not their words. And my favorite, if what they are proposing is truly real, the offer will still be good in a week. But if you tell them to give you a week to think about it, they will go nuts. That is the big clue that you are dealing with a Narcissist, because a normal loving person would give you the week to consider their proposal. A Narc needs the supply now, just like a junkie. Supply is their drug, and when they call they need it now. Remember that if they call and you don't answer, they don't go to sleep or watch a show. They continue the hunt. They aren't calling because they are getting supply right now. If we could just recall all of the abuse and pain, and see through the lies of the moment, we will pass the test and not respond. I believe that there is a level to this challenge that goes beyond the physical world. I really believe this is about saving ourselves from evil. We have all confessed to having lost ourselves in these relationships. And most of us have shared the many miracles, big and small, that have materialized as the result of living without the narc in our life. My head is the clearest it has been in over a decade. That was a long period of being lost. I don't want to be corny here, but I think we are talking about saving our souls. I know I am. I have another chance to do good works with a clear head and have a full life. Is trading that and my sanity for a sick toxic fucked up relationship with a self seeking immoral loser really even worth considering? I know it isn't! ds

#16 Dec 4 - 9AM (Reply to #26)

Crazy Train

VERY well said, DS. Hugs, CT

#17 Dec 3 - 11AM (Reply to #23)

TNR1

If I take a deep look at the

If I take a deep look at the "relationship" I had with Mr. N....I was the one who made 90% of the contact and he simply responded. Ideally, I would never hear from him again and the decision would be made for me. That would be the best outcome. But Mr. N is a Narc and being a Narc, I know that I can't count on anything being fully ended. I have stopped looking at his FB profile picture and that was a major step forward for me. Not knowing what is going on in his life (I admit I used to try to guess where he was and who he was with) has been freeing.

#18 Dec 3 - 5PM (Reply to #24)

Done sourcing

I think the discussion is

I think the discussion is healthy even if the issue never comes up. It raises our consciousness to another level, and helps us see deeper into ourselves and our true motivations. I know that my ego wants to win against the narc. I win, she loses. And if I play the game right, she will suffer. It isn't pretty or nice, but that is how my ego works. I got hurt, you will pay. But I don't want that for me anymore. I just want peace. So the question becomes, how do I get peace? I know I have to be true to myself. I have to take care of me and my needs. I know nobody else will do that for me if I don't do it for myself. It doesn't mean I can't have someone in my life, it just means if that someone doesn't truly care about me they need to go. This is the mistake I made with the narc. She was too selfish to care about me enough to give me what I needed. I couldn't give enough to her because the narcs need for attention and supply exceeds any humans ability to provide. So with this in mind, I know that I will never get what I want from the narc. Therefore, it is time for me to start focusing my mind and attention elsewhere, and give the narc back to the cosmos. ds

#19 Dec 4 - 9AM (Reply to #25)

TNR1

I started to do a

I started to do a visualization every night (I read about this on a website so it's not my idea) where I stand on one side of a bridge and Mr. N (as I remember him from the last time we were together) stands on the other. We walk towards each other and meet at the middle. I take his hands and I tell him everything I want him to know...then I tell him I wish him well for the future and turn and walk the other way. I has really helped me to give him back to the universe so to speak. I let him go with love...but I let him go.

#20 Dec 3 - 8AM (Reply to #22)

Goldie

Exactly DS

My 25 year old son said to me after I had broken NC last year. Mom all it took was one phone call. If you just did not answered that phone, none of this would have happened. From the mouths of babe's. I thought, at the time, that one phone call would be innocent enough.......NOT, it started the whole thing up again. A survival kit is an excellent idea DS. God bless, Goldie

#21 Dec 2 - 9PM (Reply to #18)

ReclaimingPower

Wow, amazing....

....I am copying/pasting this into a note I can open and read daily. Thank you! My only fear is if he comes to my home or I run into him when out. There was always something about his voice that would catch me. I don't want to say one word to him, don't want to give him any attention whatsoever. But when I start to worry, I practice that if he comes to my door, I would just close it without saying a word, lock it and then hide upstairs. If I see him when out, I want to look right through him and if it is possible, leave. If he talks to me directly, or tries to embarrass me with my friends, I would simply walk away. BUT...another friend said those types of reactions will also feed him and I should simply say hello, not engage in a conversation but instead make an excuse to go to the restroom or say I've got to go. The question is....to speak or not to speak? Invalidate his existence or recognize him but appear to be so unaffected/uninterested that I look bored and make an excuse to move away? Any guidance?

#22 Dec 2 - 10PM (Reply to #19)

bumblebee

I've thought about this one too...

and I think I've decided I would treat him like a stranger. I don't know him any better than the stranger that passed two seconds before on the street. Treat him as invisible - zero consequence to you or your life. If I cannot leave an area or party where he is at, I wouldn't actively ignore him, but I wouldn't make a point to go say hi either. If I saw him at a bar, I would get up and leave. I think being biase about his existence is best - and I think that feeds his ego the least.

#23 Dec 2 - 8PM (Reply to #17)

WiltedRose

AMEN, SISTER

WOW. AWESOME post. Just WOW. This one is bookmarked now; any more weak moments (and there will be), and I come back and read this. WOW.

#24 Dec 2 - 3PM

Swan

on any other day

I would just ignore the phone call, email, text, whatever. Then delete it. I have been 100% NO F*CKING CONTACT for 3 and a half months. Like I said, on any other day...but today...today, this time of the year...I am feeling weak, lonely, unloved and pmsing bad so I don't know if I would remain NFC. It scares me. I don't for one minute think he would ease my feelings of weakness, loneliness, unlovability (I just made up a new word) but I still, even with all the cruel, violent and vicious things he's done, would consider talking to him. What the hell is wrong with me?

#25 Dec 2 - 5PM (Reply to #14)

Done sourcing

Thank you for your honesty.

Thank you for your honesty. That is what I am talking about. It is more one dimensional to stay nc when the narc isn't lurking, contacting, etc. It is something else to go no response....and this issue is important, because it is the one that will catch you unaware and vulnerable. Asking oneself what would you do is valuable, especially as a practice tool. The reality is are we just waiting for them to call, and calling it nc? And that is ok if that is what is happening, it gives us time to get ready, to learn, and to fortify our defenses.

#26 Dec 2 - 5PM (Reply to #15)

Swan

DS

I am going to start building a freakin moat! I don't want to have contact with him!!!! I am afraid of him.

#27 Dec 2 - 2PM

ValiditySeeker

I would say

"I do not wish to have contact with you. Do not ever call me again.". Then he would hear a clicking sound in the phone as I wouldn't wait for a response from him. If he called back, same statement from me. Lather, rinse, repeat. Lather, rinse, repeat. Lather, rinse, repeat.

#28 Dec 2 - 2PM

Hunter

I know what I would do..I am

I know what I would do..I am 100% confident if that piece of shit called .. I'd answer of that I'm sure!! Id scream Fuck You loud and clear into the phone and hang up. After what he did to me he can go directly to Hell.. And he can take his mother and dog with him.. Hunter

#29 Dec 3 - 8AM (Reply to #8)

empath

Hunter!

I am laughing so hard at your post! You would NOT answer the phone, you would let him go to VM and not respond! A very wise woman here has said, time and time again, that "contact = pain." She also said "silence = fuck you!" I think that you would NOT answer the phone and would let your silence scream "fuck you!" at him! I think you would be so silent, that the N would find it deafening! I've noticed that just being on this forum can become a trigger, in and of itself. It is reassuring to think that even the mighty Hunter might have an out of character reaction. Hunter, you might wobble but you wouldn't fall. Thank you for sharing this, as I am having a difficult time accepting the weird "weak moments" that seem to come at me randomly, despite feeling like I "understand it" and am "much better now". I hope that there will be a day when nothing triggers me anymore, and at least now I am able to recognize that these triggers are not so much tied to the N, but to my own history and conditioning. It's not about him, it's about me. I am still sure that if the N did call you, that you would ultimately choose to stay NC...because you of all people know better and when you know better, you do better!

#30 Dec 3 - 8AM (Reply to #9)

Hunter

Empath

No I'm pretty sure I would answer.. Wrong maybe.. But I would answer of that I'm sure.. Why because now to me this is one big game... And saying FUCK YOU but only that would make me Feel Better... The rest Is history.. Going back never works..and that would be self distraction Hunter

#31 Dec 3 - 11AM (Reply to #10)

empath

Hunter

LOL at your brutal honesty, Hunter! OK then, when you tell him "fuck you" please tell him I said "fuck you" too! Why do I suddenly feel better? ;) This is for you, Hunter! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17eSUnQ-_ek&sns=em And this too, as a bonus! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5hae6PlPYA&sns=em

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