Over-Intellectualizing

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#1 Nov 13 - 9AM
cmae1
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Over-Intellectualizing

The man I used to be involved with showed pretty much every DSM symptom of being an N and horribly lied to and manipulated me until I couldn't take it anymore. When I listed to Lisa and other people familiar with narcissists, a huge lightbulb goes off in my head because it fits this man's description to a T!

However, the social worker I first saw about my problem and who is giving me a referral to a therapist cautioned me about "over-intellectualizing" my problem. He was just a jerk/bad guy/playboy whatever and that these labels are just over intellectualizing the problem. Needless to say, this makes me feel like an even larger idiot for giving in so many times and not running all the times I should have.

Has anyone else been told this?

Nov 15 - 2PM
Carolyn
Carolyn's picture

I am an ex social worker and

I am an ex social worker and that comment was not appropriate. You have gone through an emotional trauma and you want to at least know where you have been and what happened to you. Psychologists are getting outed all over the place for talk therapy that couldn't possibly work because the patients have genetic problems that effect their social functioning. they lack enough emotional intellligence to deal well with others. Borderlines can get a bit better with omega 3 diets, schizophrenics can get some real help with mega doses of vitamin B but none of these problem causing people gets any better talking it 'out' with a shrink. The victims can get some help by having the problem labeled and by finding out what exactly they have been dealing with in their relationship with a narcissist or other problematic person. I hope you have better luck with the therapist that this social worker recommended you to but watch out. Remember these people make their money by keeping you on their client list. Ask the therapist what they think about the 'over intellectualizing' comment. If you don't like the answer go to someone else. You aren't paying to be made to feel small and uncomfortable. You have gone through a terrible experience and you need to be supported and led to 'higher ground' so that you can see clearly what happened to you and how to feel safer.
Nov 13 - 4PM
fairy wings
fairy wings's picture

over analysing

I was told by just about everyone at various points thatI was over analysing. What made matters worse was the fact that I have been told this for as long as I can remember. From my parents, school teachers, ex husband, my sister, even my (now) grown up children and their partners! So at some level I thought there was something wrong with me. My way of knowing the world I live in is to analyse it. It is what makes me me! It's also what makes me good at what I do. I don't know that I particularly need to give my exs labels, however I do know (from analysing) that these relationships I was in were far from healthy. I also know that if anyone else had found themselves in either of the situations I found myself in they could not have done better. If they think they could its because they have never met anyone like this and they do not know what they are talking about. I turned my analysing to good effect. I apparently taught the volunteer from victim support a lot about abusive and violent relationships. The counsellor I saw when my violent partner attended a perpetrator programme said in a letter to me afterwards that she had learnt so much from me. I then went on to work as a Domestic Violence Worker and supported a lot of other women to understand what they were going through, or had been through. As part of this role I had to deliver training on DV to Health Professionals and I always tried to be creative to get them to think 'what if this was me?' I have continued to develop my training programme and now lecture on DV to trainee Police Officers. I use the sessions to challenge their assumptions. When I left my violent partner six years ago, everything was raw and when people challenged me I would feel really frustrated and often I felt like I was being abused all over again. Now I have the confidence to challenge people who make assumptions about me or anyone who has been in this situation. Nowadays when anyone tells me I analyse too much, I relpy, 'for who?' The pause after I say this leaves them lost for words and just in case they haven't got the message I can also add, 'since when was analysing bad?' I do accept that analysing or intellectualising without action leaves you exactly where you are, so although I would encourage anyone to dissect what they have been through I would also encourage them to use this information to move forward with their own life. Finally I agree with everyone else when they say find another therapist, or if this proves difficult be your own. If you are good at intellectualising you may well be able to find your own path through journaling or visiting this message board. Just remember it takes time, progress can be slower than you would wsih and it is never in a straight line out!
Nov 13 - 3PM
AnotherPath
AnotherPath's picture

If that social worker knew

If that social worker knew anything about narcissists and psychopaths she/he wouldn't be making flippant statements like that. I guess this is why she is a social worker and not a therapist or psychologist. Take no notice and deal with a trained expert. Good luck

Ending the dance

Nov 13 - 4PM (Reply to #9)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

AnotherPath

why she is a social worker and not a therapist or psychologist be careful - some social workers are MUCH MORE on the ball than some therapist/psychologists I have met. A degree signifies NOTHING. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ My Abuse Information Site Online Coaching & Help
Nov 13 - 11AM
4joys4
4joys4's picture

No. And if I were told this,

No. And if I were told this, I would have run to find a new therapist. This is not a normal relationship. Only a person who understands narcs and sociopaths and such will really be able to help you. It's a serious matter and important that you learn how these people work. Part of my recovery is understanding my reactions still after he has fled the scene. It is a true crime.
Nov 13 - 1PM (Reply to #7)
Scoop
Scoop's picture

I had to change my first

I had to change my first Therapist as she kept telling me what i was feeling was just a "bad break up with an emotionaly immature man" . It made me feel stupid and that i was over reacting ,and in some way it made me feel i was to blame , she wanted to talk about my mother alot which is fine but i thought that could wate , i was so desperate to be understood , im still serching for the right therapist and i have an appt next week with someone i made a point of telling i have trauma bonding with a narcissistic man . Scoop x
Nov 13 - 12PM (Reply to #2)
itreallyisabouthim
itreallyisabouthim's picture

I agree. My therapist

I agree. My therapist supports and even offered up the "narcissist" label for my STBX. And she threw in "borderline tendencies" for good measure! She fully understands what I am going through as a result and THAT is amazing. I tell her how refreshing it is to be able to know that the things I am describing are being heard through the filter of understanding the big picture. There is NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING more frustrating than describing an issue you are having with an N and someone suggesting that you just have a chat with them and come to some sort of agreement or compromise. The next time someone says that (and it will probably be the family court judge), I think my head will actually explode. And that's the depressing part, that even understanding them, there is little that can be done if you have to have ongoing contact (such as the dreaded "co" parenting situation). But being told that by someone who really understands is so much better than being given endless possible solutions that you know for a fact won't work. Regarding healing from the aftermath, I think it really is important for the therapist to fully understand the nature of the relationship in order to help you heal, and to help you identify and shore up resistance to that past Narc and future ones as well.
Nov 13 - 2PM (Reply to #3)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

clueless

just because the person has a degree (CSW)doesn't mean they automatically "get it" about Pathology. The social worker OBVIOUSLY didn't. When I was first disabled my insurer tried to deny me and sent me to a bunch of their doctors. One told me I was "buying into quackery" when he saw Fibromyalgia listed as one of my problems. This same moron MISSED that I was 4 months pregnant at the time, too. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ My Abuse Information Site Online Coaching & Help
Nov 14 - 11AM (Reply to #4)
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

degree doesn't get it

Somewhere on the internet I read a story about a PhD in Psychology who got involved with a N for almost 3 years before she finally made the connection between what he was doing to her & what she had learned in school about narcissism! After experiencing one of these emotional vampires one has to "over intellectualize." One has to place the insanity one has lived through into a coherent & analytical framework. A diagnosis of sorts. How can one understand the endless & senseless acts of cruelty, the gaslighting, the brainwashing, the temper tantrums, the threats, the assaults? And how they keep us in there for days, weeks, months & sometimes even years. Either there is something wrong with me. No. I can't believe what my N believes about me. So I have to analyze & intellectualize so as to understand what a disordered & fragmented personality my N truly is. How can N be so respected by others outside the house? Is it me or N? The person who said: SERIAL BULLY -- has it down. That explains so much. Anyhow, one has to analyze because the isolated experience of a N is senseless. And, in fact, all the literature about narcissism is senseless unless one has been caught in the web of the narcissist. Some therapists have not been caught in the web & therefore cannot understand what the patient suffers. Time for a new shrink! Next!
Nov 15 - 1PM (Reply to #5)
fairy wings
fairy wings's picture

Absolutely

I so totally agree 'Agnes'. When I gave my last lecture on DV I said part way through, so do you think a woman with a degree, who was a trained counsellor would get sucked in to this? Do you think a professional person would get caught up in this? They all said no. I then said I had known a woman who was head of a University Department to ask my advice because she was struggling to make sense of the behaviour of her new(second)husband and over a period of time she realised how he was treating her appallingly on every level. What I didn't tell them was the first woman I mentioned was me. I got sucked in to his web and it took me seven years to finally break free. At the time I was 'in there' I could find nothing that came close to addressing what I was going through and my only way was to be a detective in my own life. I watched him carefully and kept a journal of what happened but only after I left, and with distance could I truly see all he perpetrated against me.
Nov 15 - 2PM (Reply to #6)
4joys4
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Fairy wings

Exactly right. I consider myself a very aware type of person. I had gone through the therapy process before. I was even in therapy at the time I got involved with the exN. I brought to her his behaviors. I asked advice. I told her I didnt want to get involved with a bad man. And you know what? She never caught on to who he was! She encouraged me into the relationship. That bothers me today. That I went for help and yet still got involved. I see it like this. You are walking through the city streets in the light of day. You have a normal amount of cautiousness to your gait. You are aware. Just going about your business, then THWAK! Someone hits you in the head from behind and knocks you down, stealing your purse and running away. Did it matter how smart you were? Could you have avoided it with a degree in psychology? Was it your fault? It's a true crime and for that we need help. But the right help.