New here & in need of some help

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#1 Jun 18 - 1PM
Athena
Athena's picture

New here & in need of some help

Hello,

I have spent the past few days and nights reading here and have now decided to see if perhaps in the way in which I see others are fortified, perhaps I can be too.

I'm not sure I'm in the right place. After reading so many of your stories I am feeling a bit guilty as I feel lucky when I read of what so many women (and some men) have suffered.

But I found this site after not being able to make sense of so much hurt.

I have been with my boyfriend for two years. 2 months ago I moved to another country to be with him after he promised to marry me. When I got there, he told me the marriage 'is on hold.' I knew something wasn't right after a few days. He said 'there are drips on the floor.'- after I had taken a shower. I didn't know how to respond to this, but the tone made me afraid.

In the end I had to leave, he asked me to come back and when I did he told me I am a monster and sick and need help. I have no come back to my own country but with nothing and all my things are in his place. He told me that I am insecure and that he is afraid of me. But I'm not a bad person, I tried so hard.

When I left, he said he would take my bags to a bus stop but that he wouldn't come with me to the airport, when I gently tried to explain that maybe it would be the nice thing to do if to come, he called me a princess and got angry. In teh end just to calm him down I agreed but inside I was hurting.

I am now back in my country but with no job, or money and all my things at his place. I wrote to him a few days ago after he called me and said that he would do anything to make me happy. So I wrote and said just a bit of commitment to honour his words would be a start. he wrote back very hurtful words, saying that he is afraid of me and my anger, that he does not think he can make me happy and that he is afriad I will hate him. He ended by saying my coming to him was a burden. I am so confused. he encouraged me to quit my job and then when I got to him he ignored me and I had to try and occupy myself in a strange country.

He says I am to blame for our fighting, I have tried to ask myself how but I can't see how I did when all the fights started when I just told him I felt ignored.

What must I do. He has not contacted me for three days and I am supposed to be going back in 4 weeks, but I'm scared to go back. Why hasn't he got in touch? I just don't understand.

I feel so bad.

Can someone help me make sense of what feels to be a nightmare.

Thank you,
Athena

Jun 21 - 6PM
Hunter
Hunter's picture

ATHENA

http://www.archive.org/details/TheShockOfAbuse Hunter
Jun 21 - 4PM
Athena
Athena's picture

Today's ramblings- I know read everything as manipulation-right?

Dear I don't need you to be my rescuer. I wish you would just leave me and stop planning. If I'm not the right guy for you then I'm not. I'd rather you be with someone that can make you happy, if I cannot. It will be so painful for me to lose you, but I don't know that it will be any more so than knowing being with me causes you so much. I know I'm an asshole. I'm sorry for all the hurt I have caused you. Truth is I am terrified. I love you in a way I have never experienced being with a woman before and I'm afraid and you are right, that fear is what has messed things up. You can have no faith in me or an us when I am asking you to have it based upon nothing, worse, upon pain and fighting. I just don't know how to 'come to you.' I am full of regret and sorrow for this all being down to me. I get that. I will never change for you but I will change for me and in that way I know that I will have a different quality of relationships with people in my life. So to that end, you are my motivation, but I will and believe I am doing it for me. All my relationships with women before you were conflict ridden, I know I need to work on myself in order for this pattern to change.But what has already changed me is you, I have never had anything like what I feel to have with you. I want desperately to have better relationships with people, especially those that do love me, my family. And you love, I want nothing more than to change knowing that if I don't, I will lose you. I do not and will try my best for that not to happen. I promise you that if you do not come to me, I will come to you. I have never experienced this thing people call love, but I am feeling what that means, because of you. I will give my everything to you and I want that everything to be so much more than the little I have been able to give you since we met. You will not believe anything I say, why should you after all that has happened. And I am sorry, so sorry and full of regret for all that has, again and again you came back to more of the same. I feel so ashamed of myself and all that I have put you through. Please get on with your life and I in the meantime will find a way to show you how much I really do love you, even though I know you don't believe that I do. ...... HEAD SPINNING!!
Jun 21 - 6PM (Reply to #67)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

Athena

This is the mind of a mad man! Hunter
Jun 21 - 5PM (Reply to #63)
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

Athena

The problem with this letter is that it is so damn vague. he's "sorry for all the hurt I've caused you." What hurt & why did he cause it? "Fear." He admits all his realtionships have been conflict-ridden. he will not change for you but himself -- And how is he going to do that? How is he going to change? And what is he going to do for you to make it better? What is there concrete? "I wish you would just leave me and stop planning." In this I think he is saying the truth. And notice how he puts it on YOU? I thought this man told you to leave & would only take you to a bus stop because the airport was too inconvenient for him? No. let me guess. it was too "painful" for him. Duh. he was busy & could not be bothered. My "brillant academic" was a master at the vague letter with all sorts of apologies & promises based on all sorts of metaphysical reasonings. But there was never anything concrete. When I asked: "What exactly is it you are apologizing for? Which behavior you committed which hurt me? And how will this behavior stop?" He became furious. I was "cold, heartless & unfeeling." You see this letter offers no resolution . . . no plan for something concrete. There is no reconciliation. No way to show how all this pain will not occur again & again. I mean if all his relationships have been conflict-ridden, what does he propose to do which would end the conflict? Seems to me that he was the common-denominator in all the relationships. he's being verbally abusive here--engaging you in circular arguments with no resolution, just keeping you engaged. This is the opposite of meaningful conversation which finds a solution. Imagine this man as a computer virus. he's keeping you engaged. you mind (like the hard drive) just works & works & gets over heated but achieve nothing, never stops, until finally a total crash because the machine is overwhelmed trying to work on nothingingness of the virus. Ask him what he is so ashamed of? Whay did he put you through that over & over? And what has changed that it will not occur again over & over? Actually, do not ask. it will be more crap. Look. These guys leave everything vague so that YOU project the meaning into it that you want. So what about your stuff? Has he said anything about your stuff & getting it to you. Tell him if he's changed & he does not want to hurt you anymore -- please send your stuff back.
Jun 21 - 6PM (Reply to #64)
Athena
Athena's picture

Agnes

Thank you for sharing with me your thoughts. I also thought his asking me to leave if I'm going to leave was truth. I did feel that he senses my need to get out of this and that it is a struggle for me. I just want to clarify one part of my story that seems to have been unclear. He did not ask me to leave, I chose to leave because I couldn't endure staying with him whilst he goes through his withdrawal of suboxone. It was my choice. So the engagement of which I agree is necessary in a way for him to keep me whilst he goes through this. There is nothing concrete because he is unable to offer me anything firm. You keep mentioning my stuff and I like that you do because I'm avoiding that issue. We haven't talked about it. I don't want to, is the truth, because for me to do so means the end...
Jun 22 - 5AM (Reply to #65)
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

Athena

First, he does not sense "your need" -- he does not see you! You still don't get it. It's all about him. He wants you to leave finally because all this bothers him on some level. He blames you for all this discomfort which he generates. He's a very sick & pathological individual. You just do not understand. He lacks any empathy. He cannot put himself in your shoes; he cannot imagine how you feel; he does not think about how his behavior affects you. he only thinks about how he can use you & elicit from you that which he needs. And he needs all this drama & theater on a certain level. And anytime he is nice to you is because that's the way he extracts from you. One cannot kick a person all the time (eventually the person will run away.) Second, this behavior is not linked to suboxone withdrawal. It is linked to personality disorder. Or to being a selfish jerk. I wonder what would happen if you told "brillant lawyer" that you needed to speak to his physician about this suboxone withdrawal to better understand for yourself what to expect & to better help him get through the "withdrawal." He would go ballistic because the doctor would tell you that the taper is designed to not be painful. If it were, the addict would go straight back to heroin. You are being fooled here again. He is blaming suboxone for his bad behavior. And my N was NOT on suboxone. And nor are most of the Ns belonging to the women here. How can you explain that your "brillant lawyer" does & says all the same things as their Ns? The answer is: Personality Disorder. Anyhow. This man is just too complicated & too much trouble. And still . . . what about your stuff? If he loves you so much, he will gladly arrange to have your stuff shipped to please you. Ah. But, this is not about you, it's all about him.
Jun 22 - 5AM (Reply to #66)
Athena
Athena's picture

Agnes - I know he is PD

Dear Agnes, I agree that he is too complicated, or perhaps the honest truth too f*****d up. Period. I just want to clarify an impression I seem to be giving that is incorrect. I KNOW his behaviours are nothing to do with suboxone. I understand all too well the effects they have and I KNOW that none of them are responsible for the way he behaves in relation to me. That it is these behaviours that set him up to use drugs in the first place, to dull his flimsy awareness of his complicated self that he hates so much and he cannot bear to face. Yes he blames to a degree his mood swings on she sub, but he knows that it is not responsible for his behaviours in his relations with others. He is not experiencing his withdrawal as painful because he is under managed care for this process. This is why he is going to therapy, to address the underlying reasons. Of course if he was a complete shit all the time, I would have left a long time ago, that's the abuse. I agree that he wants me to leave because it's too much for him, not that he wants me to go be happy with someone else her already told me that will be a pain he cannot think of, but he cannot take the truth being levelled at him and that's why he wants me to quit on us. I think I understand a lot more than it would appear I am able to communicate. That is why I am not sharing his enthusiasm that 'everything will be so much better when I stop using suboxone for good' and he KNOWS this and that is why he started therapy because he KNOWS just as much as I do, trying to hold a little white pill responsible for his shit is a joke. In the end, it's too much hard work, he is too much trouble for me and that's all I need to base my decision on to move on, why would I want to be with a complicated man with so many issues and financial struggles (that's why he can't ship me shit, coz he's broke). The point is I am coming to know I am worth so much more than him and his complications, and I can argue the toss all day long about whether he is paranoid delusional, hardcore narcissist, bordeline or all combined and the rest, doesn't matter in the end he's too much hard work and I don't want that in my life anymore. I just need to find my way from this realisation to acting on it and that's what I am finding hard. He is talking merrily as if nothing has happened and is expecting me to come back and talking about all we will do. I am saying nothing. Just trying to quietly and resolutely focus on my life and getting a job and my strength back then a solution will present itself regarding my stuff of this I am sure. At the moment I can't tell him I'm leaving him because that would make me unsafe. Athena
Jun 21 - 4PM (Reply to #57)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

You have to know how to read between the lines...

I don't need you to be my rescuer. (I AM DROWNING IN THE GREAT DEEP DARK ABYSS SHIT OUT OF LUCK DRY OF SUPPLY) I wish you would just leave me and stop planning (WHY THE HELL AIN'T YOU BEGGING ME MORE...DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?). If I'm not the right guy for you then I'm not (IF YOU WOULD JUST FREAKING BEND A LITTLE MORE YOU REALLY COULD BE THE PERFECT PRETZEL...TRY HARDER AND HUMOR ME SOME PLEASE...I HATE WHEN I HAVE TO FISH FOR VALIDATION...OOOOH THE PAIN AND AGONY...BUT IT FEELS GOOD..SHHH). I'd rather you be with someone that can make you happy, (THIS IS YOUR LAST CHANCE TO CONVINCE ME THAT YOU'RE GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME...C'MON BABE DO IT!...I'M WAITING *tapping foot* if I cannot. (ACTUALLY YOU'RE NOT ON MY LEVEL, BUT REVERSE PSYCHOLOGY IS ALWAYS SUCH A FUCKING CHARM) I know I'm an asshole (DAMMIT WHY ISN'T THIS WOMAN BITING...I HOPE SHE REALIZES FOR EVERY TRUTH OR MOMENT OF CLARITY I HAVE TO DIVULGE ABOUT MYSELF SHE WILL HAVE TO PAY DOUBLE THE PRICE WHEN I HOOK HER). I'm sorry for all the hurt I have caused you (YEA! APOLOGIZE THAT'S WHAT PEOPLE DO...SHIT! CAN'T BELIEVE I FORGOT TO THROW THAT IN AT THE BEGINNING). Truth is I am terrified (YOU SHOULD BE VERY AFRAID OF ME). I love you in a way I have never experienced (AIN'T THAT THE TRUTH! NEVER EXPERIENCED LOVE...HOW DO I PLAY THAT ONE AGAIN...DO I IGNITE TEARS? SEND FLOWERS? OH! I KNOW...I'LL OFFER HER SEX!) being with a woman before (OR A MAN, OR A TRANNY, OR A GOAT OR MY FIRST COUSIN!) and I'm afraid and you are right (ONLY BECAUSE I CAN BE THE ONLY ONE RIGHT...THAT IS THE TRUE SOURCE OF MY FEAR...BUT WTH...THIS IS FLOWING PRETTY NICE SO FAR...OH SHIT LOOK AT THE ASS ON THAT ONE...YOU CAN BOUNCE A QUARTER OFF OF IT...OOPS! FOCUS...FOCUS...FOCUS), that fear is what has messed things up (AND THIS IS YOUR FAULT AND NOBODY DISSES THE NARC MAN...DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I AM?). You can have no faith in me (SHE WON'T FIGURE THIS ONE OUT AT ALL...IT'S HIDDEN WITHIN THE SENTENCE...LATER I CAN SAY "BUT I TOLD YOU THAT YOU CAN'T HAVE FAITH IN ME AND BLAME HER FOR BEING SO STOOOOPID) or an us (GIRLS LIKE THOSE "WE" "US" STATEMENTS...IT SIGNALS UNITY...LIKE A PARTNERSHIP...YOU KNOW LIKE WE'RE PREGNANT...OH! MAYBE I CAN KNOCK HER UP! THAT WOULD REALLY PUT THE BALL AND CHAIN ON THE WITCH!) when I am asking you to have it based upon nothing, (NOTHING AS WHAT IS THE SPACE THAT OCCUPIES MY BRAIN AND MY HEART AND MY SOUL - A VAST ABYSS INTO NOTHINGNESS - I THINK I'M GONNA HAVE A PANIC ATTACK...'OH SHIT LOOK AT THE BOOBS ON THAT ONE...OOOPS! FOCUS...FOCUS..FOCUS) worse, upon pain and fighting (APRHODISIACS TO ME) . I just don't know how to 'come to you (THIS WILL HELP ME STALL TO SEE IF THERE IS BETTER SUPPLY...THERE HAS GOT TO BE BUT I THINK I WANT THIS ONE TO KNOW HER PLACE...SHE NEEDS A LESSON...YEA THAT'S THE TICKET...).' I am full of regret and sorrow for this all being down to me (I ALREADY USED THE WORD APOLOGIZE...REGRET..SORROW..THOSE ARE SYNONYMS RIGHT?). I get that. (BUT NOT AS MUCH AS YOU'RE GONNA GET IT WHEN I'M DONE WITH YOU) I will never change for you (SHIT, I AIN'T CHAINGING FOR NOBODY, EVERYONE IN THIS DAMN WORLD IS SO FREAKING PERSONALITY DISORDERD, WTH....) but I will change for me (MY HAIR, MY WARDROBE, MY UNDERWEAR, AND EVEN SPORT A NEW COLOGNE AS IT'S TIME TO BECOME THAT CHAMELEON THIS SHIT IS GETTING OLD...) and in that way I know that I will have a different quality of relationships ( THAT'S RIGHT I SAID IT...RELATIONSHIPS NOTE THE PLURAL BABE...HAHAHAHA) with people in my life (OR PERHAPS A GOAT IF THEY GIVE ME ENOUGH ATTENTION). All my relationships before you were conflict ridden (ALL THOSE CRAZY WOMEN I CAN BARELY RECOGNIZE MYSELF IN THE MIRROR ANYMORE LOOK WHAT YOU ALL DO TO ME!), I know I need to work on myself in order for this pattern to change (THE BALD PATTERN I'M TALKING ABOUT...I THINK I'M ABOUT READY TO JOIN THE HAIRCLUB FOR MEN). To have better relationships with people (BECAUSE IF I DON'T GET BETTER AT MY GAME AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS BALD SPOT I'LL BE SOL FOR LIFE!), especially those that do love me (I THINK MY GOLDFISH LOVES ME), my family (THOSE JACKASSES). And you (THE MOST GULLIBLE OF ALL THREE), I want nothing more than to change (MY UNDERWEAR)knowing that if I don't I will lose (SUPPLY OH, I MEAN)you. I do not (I DO NOT...A BRAIN DROP OUT...LOST IN SPACE FOR A MOMENT...WHERE WAS I? OH YES...) and will try my best for that not to happen (I WONDER IF SHE REALIZES THAT I'M A LAZY F#cK). I promise you (WELL WHAT THE HECK, THIS ISN'T BINDING IT'S NOT A LEGAL AGREEMENT I CAN PROMISE) that if you do not come to me, I will come to you (I WONDER IF SHE CAN READ THIS AS CODE FOR STALKING?). I have never experienced this thing we call love (NEVER HAVE, NEVER WILL BUT THIS EMPTINESS IS ABOUT TO DRIVE ME OVER THE EDGE AND I'M GETTING TIRED OF HANNA AND HER SISTERS), but I am feeling what that means,(AND DAMN THIS EMPTINESS HURTS) because of you. (AT LEAST FOR THE NEXT FIFTEEN MINUTES...WHAT IS TAKING THIS WAITRESS SO LONG? SHE'S GETTING SHORT SHRIFT ON THE TIP) I will give my everything to you (HERPES, AND ANY AND ALL OTHER APPLICABLE STD'S)and I want that everything to be so much more than the little I have been able to give you since we met. (I EVEN SENT AWAY FOR A MAIL ORDER POST T VAC) You will not believe anything I say, why should you after all that has happened. (THAT SOUNDS SMOOTH, MAKES ME SOUND LIKE I UNDERSTAND HER POINT OF VIEW...I HEARD THAT SOMEWHERE WAS IT DAYS OF OUR LIVES? I DON'T THINK IT WAS ON JACKASS)And I am sorry,(SAID IT NOW FOUR TIMES) so sorry (FIVE TIMES) and full of regret (SIX TIMES...DAMMIT THAT'S MORE THAN A HOME RUN!) for all that has,(WHAT HAS HAPPENED AGAIN) again and again (IS HOW MANY TIMES I REPEAT SORRY..AGAIN AND AGAIN) you came back to more of the same. (WHAT A FOOL) I feel so ashamed of myself (YOU OUGHT TO BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF FOR BEING SO GULLIBLE...HAHAHAHA)and all that I have put you through. (AND YOU WERE THE ONE WHO MADE ME DO THAT) Please get on with your life (PLEASE COME BACK, DON'T GO...I'VE GOT NOTHING! WHAT THE HELL AM I GONNA DO WITH THE POST T VAC IF WE'RE NOT TOGETHER) and I in the meantime will find a way to show you how much I really do love you,( AFTER I BANG SHEILA, AND TARA, AND ELAINE - ELAINE LIKES THREESOMES THOUGH...HMMMM) even though I know you don't believe that I do. (THERE IS NO WAY SHE CAN RESIST ME, I LAID IT ON THICKER THAN MOLASSES IF THIS DOESN'T GET HER TO BITE THEN THE HELL WITH THAT, I'M GOING FOR BROKE...WHERE IS THAT OTHER CHICKS NUMBER...DID I FORGET TO PULL OUT THE CHIP FROM MY CELL BEFORE I CHANGED OUT MY PHONE...AAAAH HERE'S MY WAITRESS...'HEY BABE, WHAT'S A BEAUTIFUL GIRL LIKE YOU WORKING IN A DUMP LIKE THIS? ARE YOU FREE AFTER YOUR SHIFT?) ......
Jun 22 - 5AM (Reply to #58)
SusieSwizzle
SusieSwizzle's picture

Michele15

By far, a WORK OF ART this letter you dissected..Not only have you made me LOL but you made my day, week, and month! I am going to visit this letter often, as it was something my ExN would have written to a TEE!! The old 'youre too good for me and Im a piece of shit that doesnt appreciate real love from a real woman....but wait, Im bringing this local Hooker over to my parents house because well, a hole is a hole is a hole....' LMAO! BRILLIANT!!!! THANKS A MILLION!!!
Jun 22 - 10AM (Reply to #59)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Susie

Thank you...I benefitted from the "rant" as well...these Narcs are a real piece of work... Hugs!
Jun 22 - 11AM (Reply to #60)
Athena
Athena's picture

Michele115

Thank you for taking the time to show me between the lines, I am further happy that by sharing his letter you were able to divest yourself of ranting needs :-) Good! It was very funny to read even though I know my boyfriend is so afraid of women he is unable to even possess the wandering eye of the somatic narc (he's a cerebral and didn't even know how to have sex until he met me!) Have a happy day!
Jun 22 - 11AM (Reply to #61)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Athena

I am so sorry you have to go through this...regardless of the type of Narc they do damage but you will heal. Keep sharing and venting and asking questions. It takes time for all of this to register and I remember the early days so well. I have to say, this site helped me get "ME" back and the fog does lift. I presume then the rest applies...at some point given he's a CEREBRAL narc, I can simply do a "search and replace" on the Word processor and replace with: computer, pornography and other self love activities as opposed to all the woman trolling I envisioned... SMH... All the best dear...hang in there you will get past this. Warm hugs!
Jun 22 - 11AM (Reply to #62)
Athena
Athena's picture

:-) Thanks Michele

You are so right, the replacement is his computer, but be damned if he won't watch porn, his porn is 'conspiracy porn' that's what gets him off, watching hours and hours of new world order debates,he has no interest in women except as a hole to discharge his excitement over a new conspiracy theory having been hatched...sad bastard. You really encouraged me by saying 'the fog does lift' coz right now I am blinded by it and the sadness is that everyone is telling me there's light and a way through, I just find it so hard to believe when I can't see it. You have given me such a hope, I can't tell you. Thank you and thank you for saying I'll get past this, I want to believe that more than anything because right now I feel stuck in hell. I hope you are doing ok. Hugs to you too, Athena
Jun 21 - 3PM
ewa
ewa's picture

I am so sorry that it

I am so sorry that it happened to you :(. All you can do now is to find a new job and forget about this asshole. He is really a bad sick person. Please do it for yourself and keep No Contact with this piece of shi*.
Jun 21 - 12PM
HesAnOldWashedU...
HesAnOldWashedUpLoser's picture

I Understand Completly

I Totally Undastand. Mine Said To Me After 1 1/2 Months, "How Well Do We Really Know Each Other?" And He Also Told Me, I Hated Him. I Thought, What Did He Mean By That? Im Still Trying To Undastand That Crap. Just Be Glad You Got Home Safe And That He Didnt Come Back With You. As For Your Stuff, I Lost All Of It. Every Last Damn Thing I Ever Owned. Its All Gone. He Loved Tossing My Unwanted Stuff Into The Dump. He Also Broke My Expensive Vase's And Never Gave It A Thought That Maybe She Collects Them From Other Countries ,Not The Dollar Tree. They Are Pathalogical Losers. I Hate It For You And Im New Here Too. Its Been 8 Months Ova For Me And Im Just Now Findin This All New To Me As Well.
Jun 21 - 7AM
Goldie
Goldie's picture

Athena

I have just finished rereading the posts here. I believe the problem lies in the fact that most women in codependent relationships with addicts and PD's have no real clue that they are being manipulated on a daily basis by a pro. How do you suppose they maintain their addictions AND manage to have a beautiful girl who turns a deaf ear and turns away with her eyes and instincts to what is actually going on??? It happens because they are the great cons, liars, and pro's at sucking you in with fluff and slowly undermining you at the same time. By the time they get done with you, you are actually willing to admit that much of this is your fault as you state in replying that you contributed to this insanity. NO NO NO, you did not contribute to it aside from staying with him and putting up with it. You were not contributing to it; you were REACTING to it. When you are with a crazy person, it is perfectly natural to respond with tears, anger, confusion, ect.. and then once you start acting like that: BINGO, you become the crazy one who is just impossible to deal with, suddenly they tell you everything is your fault. We call it projection. He mirrors back to you what HE is doing and now calls it YOUR disorder. Slick aren't they? You were brainwashed. This is how the game is played. I have been around addicts through various jobs for years and they all work the same. POOR ME, POOR ME!! I need YOU to help me. YOU are the ONLY one who understands me. PLEASE PLEASE put up with more of my shit or I don't know what I am going to do. His words are pure manipulation and garbage. He see's the light and he knows how disordered he is??? Ya right, not on your life. These are his lies to suck you back in. He does not see jack shit. What he see's in you is an easy mark and easy target who will buy into his crap and actually take it on as her own and feel bad and go back to the Master for some more "training" on how to be a good little girl and once again, PUT UP with more of his CRAP. This is NOT going to change; he is not going to wake up one day and "see the light" and start "praying to God" He says these things simply to manipulate you, keep you down, make you think he has changed, make you think you are helping him. No one "helps" an addict get or stay sober; it's an inside job. They can go to thousands of meetings and if they want to use, they will use and whether or not he is "sober" now his behaviors have NOT changed, he is still the great manipulator of women. They prey on women because we are in love with them and we want to believe, even though we can see with our own eyes that their actions do not match their words. Also the majority of them are just as sick when they put down the substance so it's no great thing that he got "sober" which using suboxone isn't really sober anyway. It is synthetic opiates. I have seen many many men with 20 years of sobriety continue to lie, cheat, and use woman as objects for their supply. He has beaten you down and now you actually believe his lies. The solution is for you to begin to deprogram and start to see him for what he really is, not the pretend charactor he portrayed himself as in the beginning. He is a piece of shit for what he did to you and as long as you continue to blame his addiction for it you are not going to be able to see the truth. The addiction is but a symptom of underlying causes and those are that he is a selfish, crazy, manipulative conman. God bless, Goldie
Jun 21 - 8AM (Reply to #47)
Athena
Athena's picture

Goldie - response & update

Thank you for taking the time to write your thoughts, they meant a lot to me. Most importantly I really felt validated in my own assertion to him that my tears, pain, tormented endeavours to get him to see sense (what an exhaustion) are simply a reaction to his shit. I have always known this, but foolish love keppt me working on trying to get him to see this, in vain. I have also always told him in response to his pleas that things will be better once he quits the sub. that the problems and in fact the real cause of his disgusting behaviours are not being motivated by the use of these tablets, but his effed up self. He accepted that. He has gone from 16mg to o.5 in 2 years and is looking to jump off this week. Good for him. Yes he had beaten me down, to almost nothing, but I no longer believe what comes out of his mouth anymore. Yes there is a part of me that still wants to , but know that I am aware that now a greater part of me shuts that 'hopeful' part of me down and I call that self-preservation. This is what I sent him two days ago in response to pleas: The email to him:__________ "I am sitting here realising that I did the right thing in calling you. I realise I am wasting my time in this relationship. You are right, I spend far too much time trying to 'educate' you on the basics of of what it means to 'come to a woman'. That is all you hear, all i am tired of, 'analysing' in a bid to get the man I fell in love with be 'normal' After two weeks leaving you, you made no effort to call me, to ask me how I am. It's all bullshit and I realise it's all been me, trying , trying, trying, when I stop trying, there is nothing left, because all you do is take. I have spent this whole relationship 'waiting', waiting for you, to show you know how to cherish and nurture a good woman. Even today you are unable to say sorry for fucking up my life. I call you, and after I 'wait' for a loving text messgae ....'thank you darling for calling, blah blah' anything, something that demonstrates your awareness of appreciation, you just cannot show yourself you are worth it and so you are unable to reflect mine. You just can't help yourself insult and denigrate those that love you. You have no clue of how you sound. No clue of how you push all that is good away from you. I can only conclude that you prefer to live a life in darkness. You couldn't even take me to the airport when I left 2 weeks ago and yet you have the audacity to tell me I hurt you! You just don't see how you invite your own hostility back into your lap. I had so hoped I would hear of your love for me, your waking up to the woman who I suspect has run the longest course with you. No where have I heard the words 'I am sorry', only your 'I am afraid'. Never a truer word spoke because that's what you do, destroy.You have no clue of the hurt you cause. I am left without a job because of you and bullshit words of what, marriage, oh things will be so much better when we are together? Nothing. In fact the opposite. What would you like me to believe I come back to. More words of 'there are drips on the floor' it's fucking water, mop it up, more words of 'crumbs on the floor' they're crumbs, no, it's bullshit and I was who I was before I met you and I am just about still in touch with who I am whilst still being attached to you. You create a need for people to make sense of you, in my case 'to analyse' you, because how you behave is not normal. I know many people who struggle with issues in their life, many men yet, they are gentle and loving husbands, who love their women and are able to cherish them, why? Beacuse they can take responsibility for who they are and how their behaviour cause hurt to the ones they love the most. You cannot. You have caused me the most terrible hurt, treated me in the most shocking of ways again and again and you persist in defending yourself. I've had enough. and every time I speak with you you help me to realise that. You're a user, you use people just like you use drugs. And you found the perfect big heart in me to suck like the vampire you are to do that from. Good luck to you." __________ Since sending this we have spoken and he has made no reference to this email, other than 'what made me send it?' He is now telling me that he is realising things, is not making a difference to me Goldie, too little too late. I still love him, of course, but I am starting to love myself more and am applying for jobs. I am trying to get on with my life now. It is a struggle, but I am doing ok, considering all I have been through. For the first time since being through this hell, I am beginning to feel hope, not for us, but for me. Thank you for your support and capacity to help me see truth. Athena
Jun 21 - 5PM (Reply to #53)
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

Ignoring It

Of course he's ignoring it. It says the truth about him in many ways. But also you have given him insights into you, hence, he writes the e-mail above with the apologies you seek. it's all so vague. he will continue to engage in this dialogue to keep you occuppied. it is the conflict which he thrives on. What about your stuff? When is he sending it?
Jun 21 - 8AM (Reply to #50)
Goldie
Goldie's picture

I did the exact same thing

I spent 2 years trying to "get him" to see how to love me, how to treat me, how to "act normal" What we NEED to understand is that it does NOT work that way. When someone truly loves you AND has the capacity to love, you don't have to contiunously "teach" them how to react and respond, they just do it. I'm not saying any relationship is perfect and there may be some "teaching" and "learning" that goes on with both parties. Certainly not to this extent though, when you have to beg, teach, and suffer in order to get someone to throw you a bone. IT IS NOT THE RIGHT PERSON FOR YOU. They don't change, they don't change, they don't change. If a grown man does not know how to conduct himself, he is not going to be changing anytime soon. Maybe on their deathbed they may have a glimpse of truth, but certainly not in our lifetime. This is where the problem lies for most women, we still think on some level that we can change them, that we can love them into submission and it does not work that way. You cannot change a grown man. The damage was done years ago and it is not for us to even try to change them. You either accept them for who and what they are and live with it OR you kick their sorry ass to the curb and get on with YOUR life. Yes this is hard and yes this is painful and yes it is sad, however, it is the ONLY way to regain your life, yourself, and YOUR happiness. Because it is NOT going to come from him. He does not have it to give. God bless, Goldie
Jun 21 - 5PM (Reply to #52)
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

yes Goldie

Thank you Goldie. i learn a lot from you.
Jun 21 - 3PM (Reply to #51)
Athena
Athena's picture

Goldie

I agree with everything you have written here Goldie. And that's exactly where I am at, realising that I have been colluding with him. Trying to get him to give me what I need and he just can't. Interestingly he AGREES!!!!!!!And has constantly been asking me to ask myself if he is the right man for me. He almost word for word has told me what you have written! To ask myself if I can accept him as he is and if I cannot that I should find someone I can. I found your comment earlier both interesting and so helpful to me, about my reactions and how in turn he strives to convince me that I am the disordered one. What I was attempting to express with my reflections on my 'role' is that by NOT accepting him and his behaviours in HIS eyes I become the baddie, I know I am not but from his perspective I share responsibility for what is being jointly created. And my fault is to stay with someome like this, then I do contribute, so what I meant to say was that by staying with a guy like this I AM making a choice and with that choice comes responsibility. And I no longer want to be responsible for co-creating an unhealthy relationship. As you rightly say, he does not have it in him to give that responsibilty due to a reciprocal relationship to make it work, which is where the 'painful' and 'sad' bit comes in and the only 'solution'to make it less sad and painful is to leave. And that's where I'm at and it hurts to realise this is the only way. So, I am in wake of this, now trying to regain MY life MY happiness and ME. It's a struggle for me, but I'm trying, no longer for a him and a me, but just for me. God is good and life is on my side. Athena
Jun 21 - 8AM (Reply to #48)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

Athena

Thank God! Try and focus on you, limit contact with this man! None is best! Hunter
Jun 21 - 8AM (Reply to #49)
Athena
Athena's picture

Thank you Hunter

Thank you for writing those lines. I'm really, really, REALLY trying, I'm not ready to go NC, I know that and know how frustrating that must be for you and so many others reading my tale, but I'm focusing on me, limiting the contact to mere response and please believe me when I say that I am doing so with my eyes WIDE OPEN. Hugs for you, for 'staying' with me... Athena
Jun 20 - 6AM
Goldie
Goldie's picture

Welcome to the board Athena

Thank you for sharing your story. This is the beginning of the process to getting it out and understanding what just hit you. I have read the many responses and you have received some great comments. This is not easy to understand or easily sorted out, when your hopes and dreams are dashed. This is exactly how the abuser works, they build you up, suck you in, and then when they have you where they want you the plot begins to slowly change and it is a painful and shocking experience. Keep sharing and reading about the PD's and abuse cycle and in time it will begin to make more sense. Right now, I'm sure you are in shock more than anything else, we have all been there and will offer you our support through our own experiences. No two stories are exactly the same, so try to relate where you can, we all can relate to the feelings of betrayal and abandonment. Be very leary of anything he may say or do at this point. Once it reaches this stage, it most assuredly will only get worse, even if he were to "suddenly" change and many play that game after a few days, weeks, months and come back crying about how much they love us. DON'T believe it, you have already seen who he really is and that grand standing will only be a ploy to suck you right back in. God bless, Goldie
Jun 20 - 3PM (Reply to #45)
Athena
Athena's picture

Goldie

Dear Goldie, Thank you for your warm welcome and sage advice. Also for your sensitive understanding of where I am at, I am emerging from yes what has been a two week period since I left him, of shock, complete shock and trauma. But today I feel me again for the first time in weeks, maybe even months, I can't be sure. But it feels good. Thank you so much for your advice especially about taking what relates to me from all the stories and working with that, that was really helpful. God Bless you too, for you. Athena
Jun 19 - 1PM
girlsinger
girlsinger's picture

umm.. ATHENA....so what happens when

umm...your not beauitful one day? (and not because your not, Im sure you are) but because HE dosent see you that way THAT DAY (remember...these creatures have a very unrealistic view of beauty,..its a hallmark of thier "disorder" they want "perfect" all day everyday) especially the 'brilliant ones"..LOL guess what? if you dont close the door on his insanity,now you will be wishing for this D&D back since the one you are in for in the future (how dare you do this, he thinks on the back of his mind) will be waay beyond your imagination, it gets worse everytime you return..everytime since now he knows how much indignity you will tolerate and since he's so "brilliant" he will hate because he knows you are taking it I hope you dont..but thruthfully I dont really care if you think Im mean BTW (Hunter is amazing for taking the time she did with you that is real life experience talking..it's..priceless) Athena, may I say your just waaay too impressed with that "Brilliant lawyer thing" hey, My exN is a "brilliant surgoen" working on Cancer patients all day, teaches doc's @ a University & when hes not doing that.. the royals fly him in, sometimes he's so busy they fly in to see him I was always certianly respectful of his profession but I also know how possible it is for a man to be 'brilliant" in ONE area of his life and be a total failure everywhere else, ESPECIALLY RELATIONSHIPS! I was never very impressed with his "brilliance" maybe thats because I have traveled the road of hard work myself.. so I was alwyas "respectful".. Maybe that is what kept Dr Narc around as long as he was. also, I discarded him, I already knew I had been de-valued why wait? BTW Dr N was so kind to me, treated me like a queen we never ever fought loved me to death showered me with gifts, cooked for me heck, if I had ever gotten the treatment you got I would have never gone back to him sure Dr Narc was there, calling 4x aday inbetween surguries sending me flowers jewelery cards...even his first childhood "science book" with a card that said "I have never ever felt closer to anyone, ever in my life" until one day, out of the blue (because that is how they are 'wired" IT MUST HAPPEN..remember that..MUST ...he was replaced by his stand-in SATAN! be blessed. K Listen Athena that "brilliant Lawyer your with sounds more like he is psycotic ( a break with reality)..not an N in addition to that ..he is an addict I dont care if he isnt practicing his addiction today what is important to remember is all of the history that led him to becoming one you will never unwravel that yarn...never yea , he sounds brilliant alright and if you dont leave now you will be exactly how you are today in a year if he even stays with you that long (someone prettier, shinier, or not as pretty, perhaps it matters not..disorder is the order of the day..everyday) he's not sick, he is insane his writing is just insane, seriously out of his mind btw your "beauty" wont make him well, sorry, but its true and his "brilliance" is meaningless please remember love dosent hurt, love heals....period
Jun 21 - 7AM (Reply to #43)
Goldie
Goldie's picture

What Girl just said is on spot

Totally, lose the superfical nonsense and look a little deeper here and you will see and get your answers. God bless, Goldie
Jun 19 - 2PM (Reply to #28)
Athena
Athena's picture

Thank you girlsinger

Thank you so much for your words that clearly illustrate time, that you have given to me. Thank you. We spoke and he said I am vain, rah de rah. Maybe he hates me for all that I am on the outside and maybe he is right, I have used how I look to cover my insecurities, his words make me awake to myself as too have yours. I am so happy that you seem to have a good man at your side. I will not tolerate any more indignity girlsinger. Because of coming here I found strength to call my friend and then telll him that she will be coming to get my things. He replied and said that he will come to me then, because only an 'emotional retard would let a woman like you go.' I hope he does let me go. And I have made the first step, only made possible by coming here. I don't want to be where I am today in a year's time. Why is he insane?
Jun 19 - 2PM (Reply to #33)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

Athena

You already don't like me but I'm telling you like it is! First I find it interesting that you will allow this man to abuse but you are offend by my truth! Your mother is angry at you, No, she is feeling your pain! You are arguing with the wrong people. This man will not come to you, I'm willing to bet on it. You are using your friend to get your things as an excuse to speak with him! Mr Big Shot should send your things, my narc has my expensive jewelry,and cloths. Asked for them once, he said he would send them. Nope I got nothing, you know why his crazy head wants me to beg for MY things. I would rather replace them or do without them then beg him for anything. You need to heal, staying in contact with this man is only hurt! I'm not being mean just honest, Hunter
Jun 20 - 4AM (Reply to #34)
Athena
Athena's picture

Dear Hunter- to you and general update on my situation

Thank you for your message. It is not that I don't like you, how could I not like someone who is trying to help me. I just find your words so hard to hear, they're telling me all that I know is true but this truth is clashing with another 'truth' I am teling myself- that I love him so much and that maybe, just maybe we can make this work. He's not a big shot Hunter, far from it, his life is in a mess and he has stopped working to get clean from subxone, he fights with everyone in his family and lives in a shitty apartment. I just don't know how to disentangle myself. And my frustration and anger at my situation is what is spilling over into my relationships with those who really do love and care for me, even strangers who are trying to help me. I know that and I am both sorry and humbled that they (and you) seem to recognise this and tolerate me as a result. I'm sorry for my aggressive tone in previous posts. I am just hurting so much and don't know how to take care of myself. You are right about wanting to speak with him. I desire so much to be in his arms once again, to know his touch. I made a decision to 'undo' the invitation from my friend to pick up my cases. So she has not called him to do that. He and I spoke yesterday for an hour. He asked me to help him understand why he is destroying us when he loves me. I told him that he is terrified of my heart and his. We spoke really well and he asked me if I could have faith even though he knows I have nothing to base it on. I said I didn't know that I felt afraid to come back. He asked if we could start afresh so I said then we have to resolve so much of what caused the conflicts. I asked him why he didn't come to the airport and that was the trigger that set the downfall of a conversation that up until then seemed to hold so much promise. He started shouting and ranting. We ended the call and I called him an ass-hole. After that he sent me a text message saying that he knows he is an asshole and that if I am going to leave him, I should just do it and stop planning. This was followed up by several more in which he said that I have hurt him, that he would do anything for me, that he will try and improve his communication but would not 'sit on a bus to the airport for twenty minutes just to prove his love for me that I should know already.' That he has his reasons for not coming.' He ended with saying 'hell I'm so angry with you.' I told him I am angry at him. I replied and told him that all these 'dumbass' issues that escalate to conflict would be resolved if he would only talk to me, but that as he is 'not much of a talker' (his own words) 'it's his fault'. I realised how childish this was but by this stage 2am, I was broken down and exhausted. He wrote back 'F**k you, goodnight.' I am ashamed to say I wrote back saying 'F**k u too and I wish you a night from hell.' As I am typing he has just sent me a message saying that he is stll mad at me but that he loves me like crazy and would neve talk bad about me because he loves me and that I am the woman for him, his love, his partner.' I haven't replied, but the truth is I am still angry at him but I also love him like crazy. So where am I at now? I think I have decided that I will go back on July 18 to get my things myself and return. I know why I am doing this, it's because I love him and want to see him again, I desire him sexually so much too. I want to believe that I can do that, just go, get my things and come back and I will because I will book a return flight, so I will come back with all my things. Then I won't ever go back. He will be in another country and I'll be in mine, and then I will keep coming here and find the strength to rebuild my life. The only way we would see each other again is for him to come here and as you feel sure that he will never come to me here, in a way that makes me feel secure and safe. And I think you are right. I don't see any other way than this to get my things. I know what you say about leaving them, and maybe I am telling msyelf they are so important so that I can see him again, but they are, this is what I feel and I also want to see my friends there as I don't know when I will again after I return. It just felt that if I involve other people, I am claiming myself a victim in need of rescue. I think I am strong enough to do this by myself. And I am not stuck with him, because we are not married, have no children and my home is here in this country, so I am free, just not psychologically or emotionally right now, but I believe I can and will be. I need to believe this and in me. Do you think I am so wrong to go back? Please help me. Athena I replied and to