Im questioning everything

I am really having troubles right now. I am questioning whether he is an N or whether he is just a stupid 21 year old that makes mistakes. As you know we have been talking. He wants us to eventually get back together. This time he is being so different and so much more realistic. Last time he came back he was crying and telling me that he wants to be back together and rush into things again and he lied about everything he did when we were broken up. This time he is being honest and admitted things that he has done. He is telling me that we should move slow and work on our problems. He said that he doesnt want to lie to me and he might mess it up again but we can work through it. He is just being so much different and logical this time around. It is really making me question everything. I know who he is, I know that he is an ass, I just dont know what to do. Maybe I need to take him back one more time to get it in my head,but when I wasnt talking to him I was so much stronger! Oh I am so confused now! Remember how strong I was just two weeks ago? Now I am fragile. I dont want to be with him because I know it probably wont work but I also dont want him with anyone else. Please help!

rainbow1's picture

Thank you to everyone for your help and advice. My problem is that when I am not around him I can think clearly. I can see that he isnt the best choice for me, but the second he comes around I melt. Yesterday he came to my office as I was leaving and we talked for an hour and a half. We talked about our issues and set ground rules, saying if I dont do this he wont do that and that we might try to work it out. But after he left I text him, he didnt respond, I text a few more times with nothing (one of the things he had to work on was communication and if he is busy he just needs to tell me instead of ignore me). Finally after an hour he text me that he is "busy and will text me in a bit" I sent him back a text that said "see that is all you gotta do! thanks!". This was at 7pm and I never heard from him for the rest of the night. When he is not around I say that I never want him back but then when I see him I get sucked in.

_______________________________________________
"dont let yesterday take up too much of today"

better off's picture

He probably WAS busy; he had to go screw his 17yo notagirlfriend. So.. he set ground rules that if YOU don't do this or that, then he won't abuse you, ignore you, or cheat on you? That sounds really special. Don't slip up!!! Sorry to be sarcastic... I just wanted you to see it for what it is! You just made a deal with the devil to be good, and if you're good, then he won't mistreat you. So who is that burden on exactly?? YOU! I'm gonna take issue with the name of your thread, as well, rainbow. You know that you aren't REALLY questioning everything. You're just ignoring it. After reading your description of your mother, I'm not surprised that you let this guy manipulate you since it's how you were raised. But you are grown up now and have to start taking responsibility for yourself!! You are CHOOSING this. Please... please reconsider what you are doing. If you can't "resist" him when you speak to him, then don't speak to him.
rainbow1's picture

You are 100% right. I know that I am choosing this, I am making excuses, I am doing all of this to myself. I know. I can even see it is a bad choice and that it is going to hurt me in the end. I havent taken him back, but I am talking to him. Old habits die hard. I really need to get some distance and some perspective. I actually just signed up to study abroad in France for a few weeks. I hope that I get this. It will give me time and space to think. But most of all it will help me get out of this tangled web. It is hard to get out tangled web when you are standing in the middle of it.

_______________________________________________
"dont let yesterday take up too much of today"

wholeagain's picture

You and NinjaGirl must share that can of whoopass ;) Great points in plain language--if you're good he won't mistreat you. That's exactly it isn't it? It's sometimes so hard to see from the inside.
Amy's picture

I did the same with mine - talked about respect, communication, etc. He agreed to everything - then broke all the rules. He will say whatever he thinks you want to hear to get you back. Then he will hurt you again. He immediately did it to you last night! Please think about this again!
Used's picture

now you have !admitted!, have issues he will now use that against you, the moment you do something he doesnt like, he willsay well rainbow you said yourself you have issues,the not responding to text, why would he bother he has got you again, he now doesnt have to be polite.when he did text you about texting you later, you were suppose to say oh thank you thank you oh great one, you instead challenged him by this remark, so you are to be punished again, rainbow, please stop listening to this toerag, youhave given him all your power and he will continue to ignore you till he see,s fit to forgive you,pleas stop responding to him and letting him win again.
wholeagain's picture

In a healthy relationship you don't have to work so hard to have respectful communication. What are you getting out of having to work so hard for this, for him? What's your reward?
Aliveagain's picture

Honey you don't have issues. He does. He's won now. Let the games begin..again. what would be really cool is if you started his shit back on him and then ignored him, PERMANENTLY. Left him befuddled. I actually did that, worked a treat. Take back the power.
helldweller's picture

You are absolutely right. Got sidetracked for a minute there. I've got children with my exhusband, but this beautiful girl is free, free, free to have the best possible man in her life, and this guy ain't it.
Susan32's picture

He sounds like a loser. You're a loving, self-giving person. You have one precious life--choose someone precious with whom to share it. He certainly isn't that precious.
wholeagain's picture

That Ns will try every angle to get to you. His previous approach wasn't working? Well of COURSE he's going to try looking contrite. Dollars to donuts if you didn't buy that he'd lose his s**t, then regain it "apologize", and try something else. Do Not Buy It. Other than that, you've already gotten plenty of great tough love here ;)
Aliveagain's picture

heehee, sorry I'm on a role. This guy just bothers me SO much. Why don't you stop thinking about what HE wants. Write a list of the characteristics that YOU WANT in a man. Be specific. I bet when you compare your list to his attributes you will realise how far of the mark he falls. No...stop that nonsense brain chatter because you cannot make him those things on the list. Banking on potential is failing to see reality.
rhiannon's picture

I think your idea of writing a list of the characteristics that WE WANT in a man is fabulous. I am definitely going to do this. A new writing assignment... yay!
ewa's picture

Do not take him back! Mine was telling me that we can start everything again and it will be different. He admitted that he cheated. However it was not different at all. I just lost even more time with him to find out nothing really changed. Run away from him. He just tries to manipulate you.
Aliveagain's picture

Can I also add - which I think someone else has written too - these are not "your" problems, they're his. AND evidence of him NOT CHANGING - for whatever reason...immaturity, narcissism, psychopathy...you ALREADY have your answer and you know how? BECAUSE HE'S OKAY WITH YOU BEING OKAY WITH HIM BEING OKAY WITH SLEEPING WITH A MINOR. Some love there for sure! I mean this wonderful guy wants to bang someone else, you must be The One. Bingo. Jackpot!
broken23's picture

Rainbow everyone is so right if you want to know someone else whose been through it.. round 1 with my ex ended when i was 22. i had been with him since 18. and i had no freaking clue about N's. I did go through up and down and a emotionally abusive relationship which one day resulted in him being drunk and hitting me. Even then I called it emotional immaturity but I knew I had to part ways. Fast forward many years..he was back in my life. And it was bliss at first, me thinking he had changed and realized the errors of his ways. After 6 months his colors came out, and it had just gotten so much worse with age. His liars were more, his abusive and manipulative ways had been fine tuned. It was so much more hurtful. And i definitely can say now he is disordered in some way. Ultimately it doesnt matter if you label him or not. You have seen his behavior for how many years now. If the change was going to occur it would have occurred with you. And if he truly wants to change it will occur without you. Why not let him make that change. Why do you have to be there. If he really cares for you, he should be willing to look at how he wronged you take accountability and change without you. I assume he wants you around to fill up his void of attention. Its not easy, when they are feeding you the bs about change. Everyone goes at their pace...But if you must be around him at work or whereever why not take a journal and note actions so you can tell if its all talk or not.
better off's picture

You've made some beautiful points here. And someone who had really changed... would not be pressuring his girlfriend to accept him back, and under his terms, and call it "working it out." The pressure to accept him back is just proof that he has NOT changed.
Used's picture

i read your story, how can you even want to go back to this lowlife, i noticed in your story, you said he,s not a drinker and yet you say he was drinking for 2weeks, he,s a drinker, you seem like you are in denial, he went and had sex with 3 woma who you realy object about, i believe you are getting caught up in the moment ,the ,what could have been,s and you say he is acting so nice, well he would wouldnt he thats what they do best ,he wants you back for 2 reasons 1 to see if he can 2 to dump you when he gets you,please think highly of yourself, not of this scumbag, you wouldnt be on this board if he was a good guy,
better off's picture

And he throws drinks in her face in public.
helldweller's picture

You know, ideally, the thing to do would be to see him casually as if you were just starting out, and to make it clear that it is not exclusive, and that way a normal couple could honestly and slowly and normally find out if they truly should and want to be togther. However, we all know that you are not going to be able to keep it casual right now, nor are you going to be able to see or even look at anyone else, while he very probably will. You could suggest those terms, anyway, and suggest them casually, to see what he says. My guess is that his control won't allow you to be free. I understand that the majority of people on this board are going to insist on NC and that there is no changing him, but unfortunately I--who believed my ex husband was an unchangeable narc--have seen him change the most important, selfish parts of himself for the sake of his children. He still is very arrogant and entitled, but he loves them, cares for them, worries about them, holds them, protects them, plans for them. I know know that he's not a psychopath, but needed to grow up some. Only you can decide what you want to do. He sounds to me like a particularly smarmy dude, but many of the saints were sinners first, so . . . just protect, protect, protect yourself.
ShaynasMommy's picture

While I respect your opinion, I have to disagree with your advice here. Rainbow is in a much different position than yours. She doesn't have any children with this a-hole. Unfortunately, you have to co-parent with your N, wether he's getting better for real or not. She is just too young to even be worrying about if he is going to change. Her updates make it clear he doesn't want to change, he just wants HER. She really ought to just focus on herself, IMO, and find out what makes her so attractive to N's and why she would even want to put up with the inevitable abuse from one. Yes, she could wait around, even "casually," to see if this guys really has any saintly quality. But the reality is, he is just an N, always will be, because they never want to change even when they realize there is a problem. If and when they realize they are N's, they only RELISH in it, not horrified by it like a "normal" person would be. I don't know if you are Catholic, but I have spent much of my life in the catholic church enough to know that it requires much more than merely repenting of one's sins to be named a saint. If that were true, a lot more of us would be saints. Please don't confuse the potential with the real thing, and please don't go giving false hope to this young woman when we all know he is a straight up Narc from what she has told us.... Ihope this response didn't offend you or put you on the defensive, it really was not meant to. I realize that different people have their own way of dealing with their situations, but I really can't let this one go as I see it as very bad advice from my POV. I wish someone had been as "tough love" on me when I was her age, maybe then I could have avoided even half of the greif over my ex-N if there was somebody else out there who knew exactly what I was going through. I will say it again.....you are pretty much "stuck" with your children's father and have to somehow get along for their sake. Rainbow doesn't have to waste any more of her precious time on this POS. Rainbow, if you read this post, I hope you don't waste any more of YOUR time on him. None of us know when we are going to run out of it, and a NARC is the last person on earth you should want to gift your time and energy to.
better off's picture

He broke into her apartment. That's not smarmy. That's criminal. He has exhibited PLENTY of sociopathic behavior. That is the most toxic hope statement to make to a person of her age especially: Many of the saints were sinners first?? The apostle Paul is the only one I can think of that changed overnight. And not because his girlfriend didn't talk to him. IF he were ever going to change and "mature" then it's not going to be in five minutes, and it's not going to be at her expense. Fine, let him "change" and "grow up." When he's ACCOMPLISHED that, maybe she can entertain such ideas. In the meantime, it's a hoover, plain and simple. There is no universe where someone changes their character in a couple days because his ex girlfriend is ignoring him.
Used's picture

why do you think his lowlife mates came on to you, word of mouth. in other words what he has been telling them , he is a disrespectful bastard, you are young just starting out to good for these dogs, please dont be like me and one day look back [as i do] and think i have wasted my life caring for men like this, there are decent men out there who will love and respect a nice girl like you, please dont waste your life as i have and ending up at my age never wanting another relationship ever again i am fine on my own now, but what an horrendous journey it was getting herexxx
chickie3040's picture

better off....could not have said it better myself. Everyone needs to STOP making excuses for these monster's bad behavior and call it what it is...BAD BEHAVIOR, N or just an idiot! Why should he want to change? He has no consequences for his actions. Break in to your home, rape minors and have his swine friends grope you??? Yeah, that behavior will change overnight. Look, I think I just saw a pig fly by my window and I got a news alert that Hell has frozen over.... RUN AWAY FROM THIS CREEP and FAST!!!!!
Amy's picture

If you aren't learning from your own mistakes, please learn from mine! I made so many excuses for my ex N! You are so young - you can break this cycle NOW! You KNOW he is bad! "I know who he is, I know that he is an ass, I just dont know what to do. " So is this ok with you? If you don't think he is an N, and is just immature, is being an ass to you ok? You are so sweet - we can all tell from your posts - you deserve better than an ass OR an N! I promise - there are better men out there!
narcdx3's picture

Oh how this all sounds familiar!! Please do learn from our mistakes. 15+years of trying to win with him, a multitude of women--if only I had done this or that then he would have been willing to stay at home. Quit trying to win. You can't. If you have to prove something prove to yourself that you are beyond this, you are better than this. Drop him let her have him and move on. You win by letting him go. Know he is using you for a sick mind game!!!
querida's picture

Miss Rainbow, you wrote last week about how you were ready to deal with this dude head-on and not let him working with you affect you. PLEASE go back and read that post. All of the sudden: "As you know we have been talking. He wants us to eventually get back together. This time he is being so different and so much more realistic." Really? What about the friends who think you're the freak of the week they can manhandle in public places? BECAUSE OF THIS MAN?!?!? What is different this week from last week?
almostlydia's picture

mine did the same thing, sent flowers, crying, talking suicide. I had just started seeing someone from HS, a very nice guy that I liked a lot. I took the N back, lost the good guy and within 3 mos the N was calling one of the old regulars from 3 yrs before. He meant everything of course, at that moment but, as always, he couldn't help what he was or what he needed. I regret that I didn't know what I know now well enough to know that he could never mean what he said, that he could never be different. I went thru another 2 yrs of hell and that good guy remarried. He was one of the few men I had seen in years I could even imagine getting close to. Just saying.....

almostlydia

Lisa E. Scott's picture

Oh no, no, no, no, sweetie! You cannot go back to this man. He has shown his true colors. He is doing nothing but manipulating you now. It's a game to him. You're a challenge right now and every guy likes a challenge. He is consumed with the challenge of winning you back, not you. I'm sorry if that's hard to hear, but you know how he will treat you once he gets you back - horribly, right? Right, so just remember that his interest right now is purely game oriented. He wants to win you back for his own ego and then he will discard you again - no question about it. I love what AliveAgain said: "Think of 5 memories over and over again that made you shudder. This helps to break the bond. Good memories aren't fragmented. Traumatic ones are. To recall the bad you'll need to make associations with the emotions but if you can train yourself to think of these 5 things each time you start thinking of the good stuff, instead I believe you will be on your way to breaking this attachment to this guy that has already had way too much of your precious time and emotion." Like she said, bad memories are framented. Therefore, you don't remember the detail, it's fuzzy and it's hard to bring to the front of your mind. Your mind actually fights it when you try to recollect the bad memory. Write them down - 5 horrible things he did to you - and remind yourself of these every time you feel a pull towards him. You are playing with fire, Rainbow. You will only get burned. Please don't go there. You deserve so much more. Like everyone said, this guy is a loser. You're way too good for him.
Aliveagain's picture

Lets say he's for real. What makes him a BETTER choice than the other guys out there without all this baggage?