Childhood Damage - Do you know yours? (if any)

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#1 Sep 29 - 12AM

tresor2

Childhood Damage - Do you know yours? (if any)

A recent post by Goldie touched on the subject of "fillers;" people, things, activities we use to avoid identifying and working through our original injury(s) and it really got me thinking. I finally figured out that everyone in my life was pretty much a filler since my injuries were prior to age 10. Fillers like picking unavailable abusive partners, over and over have been my story and have kept me from healing. The "good" ones didn't last long.

For the longest I thought I was some kind of freak of nature and that I was different...the only one who understood me was my dog. As a child, I was never physically abused or molested; nothing horrible happened. I had two parents who worked hard and my mother was always there. So wasn't I supposed to be "normal?" ...not.

So what the hell happened to me? It's real simple...I had two good damaged parents who did their best but, unfortunately suffered from PTSD, depression and unresolved trauma due to what they suffered during WWII and from their parents. Not rocket science. I was a very sensitive child and their inability to be there for me emotionally was all it took to make evolve into a N magnet.

Thanks to the last piece of work, I'm facing all of it and healing definately means going back to the original injury which really occurred at birth and through my entire childhood. This is tough because I don't remember specifics...I guess it's about grieving...I have the forgiveness and understanding. Most of this is not about exN or my parents but, about me. (However N is not absolved from his role as the Asshole King but, I'll let my higher power deal with him.)

I spent years dissecting N and went back to school and got a MA in psychology because of him. It helped learning about pathology but, even school was a filler. When I was done, the pain was stil there...wherever I go, there I am.

I guess where I'm going with this post is to say that in the end, it's all about US. Maybe the psycho is a gift that propeled us to do things we would have never done (like join this blog) and to motivate us to take the journey inward to deal with our issues. That's about all that is left to do.

#2 Sep 30 - 6PM

Susan32

Marriage isn't a band-aid

I had a long-distance relationship with my father;he's not an abusive father, but he was distant throughout my childhood, always off on business trips. On top of that, my mother would talk about how "absence makes the heart grow fonder." My mother would also say that by marrying my father&having a stable marriage to him, she was making amends for her parents' drama and divorce (they were both Narcs) No wonder when I was with the ex-Psych prof, I romanticized the distance between us. I felt like we had a long-distance relationship... despite being in the same city(!!) I did see the ex-P as a father figure... after all, he was my teacher and 15 years my senior. He did treat me like a child, being a teacher/authority figure/older man. I always felt like I had to PROVE to him that I was an adult, capable of being treated as an equal. I don't think marrying the ex-P would've somehow compensated for having an absentee father. Marriage isn't a band-aid. Having a father figure for a husband does NOT make up for one's childhood. The ex-P would compare himself and I to Leo&Sofia Tolstoy... Leo was 16 years older than Sofia, and he acted as a father figure to her rather than as a husband. He had a hard time seeing her as an adult, as a sexual being, as an EQUAL. I've been reading Sofia Tolstoy's diaries, and at one point, one of her sons compares her to a child, saying all she needs are dolls&tea cups... at another, she says she's a perpetual child, she's never grown up. I guess being married to a Narc is like being perpetually stuck in childhood... in Never Neverland... and it is NOT a paradise. Marriage isn't the right venue for dealing with childhood wounds. It doesn't serve that purpose.

#3 Sep 30 - 5PM

fooled no longer

sorry to rain on your parade

sorry to rain on your parade but i once met a man who told me phsycology studies at universities are full of women trying to work out some screwed up man. while he is long gone, and causing havoc in some other womans life. its a waste fle your life, unless you have a burning desire to be a therapist. after studying this sicko that devastated my life for a year now, im no closer to understanding him. I dont want to, he is a sub human and I dont want to spend anymore time working out why abnormal exsists. Its the same as falling down a big hole as you were happily walking along. you could spend your life asking why. or you could just realise it happened, he was a predator. and get on with loving and nurturing yourself back to life.

#4 Sep 30 - 9PM (Reply to #47)

tresor2

Fooled No Longer

After reading your post, I had to sit for a few hours to process before responding. Did the man who told you that "universities are full of women trying to work out some screwed up man" conduct a physical survey, thereby, basing his conclusions on fact, or is he another delusional Narcississt who believes his perceptions to be fact? I'm sorry, but I find this statement to be based on ignorance. Having attended universities and knowing many women studying psych, I haven't found this to be true at all. I admitted to it, but, I wasn't aware of anyone else in class doing the same thing. People enter the field for many different reasons. School actually did help me understand him and others but, what was most helpful were internet sites such as this, books and my mindfulness practice. I don't find it a waste of my life because the pros prevail and doing therapy once or twice a week is a good thing for me. I like your analogy about falling in a black hole because that's what happened and it's about accepting what I can't change and moving on. I just went overboard with trying to understand his behavior, that's all. I balance therapy with working in the business world. I'm actually to the point where I want to stop all of my N focus...I'm so sick and tired of it. You are so right about the sicko predator. Yes, thank you for reminding me of how old this stuff is getting. I've come a long way and have truly risen from the dead. I feel I'm so close to getting unstuck; I can smell it. The hardest part for me is the lonliness. Thanks for being so direct. It helped.

#5 Sep 30 - 5PM

fooled no longer

sorry to rain on your parade

sorry to rain on your parade but i once met a man who told me physcology studies at universities are full of women trying to work out some screwed up man. while he is long gone, and causing havoc in some other womans life. its a waste of your life, unless you have a burning desire to be a therapist. after studying this sicko that devastated my life for a year now, im no closer to understanding him. I dont want to, he is a sub-human and I dont want to spend anymore time working out why abnormal exsists. Its the same as falling down a big hole as you were happily walking along. you could spend your life asking why. or you could just realise it happened, he was a predator. and get on with loving and nurturing yourself back to life.

#6 Sep 30 - 12AM

Sunafterrain

As far as childhood damage

yes, I do know. Both parents pathological. Father full blown psychopath, mother N or at least with strong N traits. Molested by stepfather for four years from 7-11 years old. Scape goat by mother, siblings. Then moved in with father. molested by him once when he was very drunk. He was alcoholic. He realized I was damaged goods, scapegoated again and my father/stepmother moved me out of the house to "repair" their marriage when I was about fifteen. They eventually divorced. raped by first boyfriend, sexually, physically, verbally abused by Phubby one, married at 19. Traumatic birth, first born child, preemie at one pound thirteen ounces. Diagnosed body wide infection that caused delivery, speculation is multiple trauma from childhood abuse made my body weak. I was sick for several months afterward. I was very sick early teen years as well. My parents did not provide the medical care needed even though there was insurance. They said I was "faking" it to get attention. When I write out the timelines and the abuses that happened, I feel really lucky to be alive. I also feel really lucky, that with all of that pathology and abuse, I still have some sanity and feel in my heart that I have something to offer this world. Even with all of that. I do believe there is good in me. :)

#7 Sep 30 - 1AM (Reply to #44)

tresor2

Sun

You are a true survivor and reading your story is gut wrenching. You endured so much and now you're helping yourself and others via this blog...that's the way we can help ourselves heal. We are all really lucky to be alive and it's obvious there is a tremendous amount of good in you...was that ever doubted?

#8 Sep 30 - 12AM

strivingforhealing (not verified)

a truly inspring post! There is so much Awareness here!

I too have looked for what went wrong in my childhood...something sure as hell must have- sex at 12, drinking at 12, drugs at 13, black outs, stripping, and on and on...why would a well loved girl do these things? I can't find the big molestation...but I do know I was a hurting little girl- with an absent emotionally unavailable dad and an anxious young mom.. All of this made me ripe to fall for a strong assertive father figure who wanted to marry me in a month... I do choose to believe that Source brought all of this to me- to heal the deepest self doubts and the darkest crevices of a broken heart. Pain can push us like nothing else- to really examine who we are. and after 8 years of hell with the N where he made me doubt my loveability and my goodness- I am fighting back...and saying Fuck YOU- that was NOT true! I am good, I am worthy, I am loveable. I am good enough. and so are all of you blessed women and men on this site.

#9 Sep 30 - 1AM (Reply to #41)

tresor2

Striving

You did those things because you were hurting because you had nobody to listen to you or to nurture you. It was the only thing u knew to do to survive and cope in your invalidating environment...it gave you some relief from the painful emotions. You did nothing wrong; you were a victim. You are so right about the pain pushing us and the Source placing the gift of a N on our doorstep. Without it, we'd be complacent and maybe this journey would have never begun. Pain is the greatest motivator but, I wish it didn't have to hurt so much. I loved saying Fuck You to N too. There's something freeing about finally lashing back and getting my power back. I've had very few FU moments in my life but, I think it's the appropriate way to deal with evil, at least for me it was.

#10 Sep 30 - 1AM (Reply to #42)

strivingforhealing (not verified)

Thank you Tresor. So much

Just to have you validate my experience brings such tears....You heard me...more than my dad ever did...and it is in THIS moment- that healing happens....the past can't be changed..but when I am heard now, in the present, by you- my little girl quiets and feels accepted... Thank you so much for the compassion. You too- you deserved to heard,loved, acknowledged, held and accepted for the bright special human you were, are and always will be.

#11 Sep 29 - 11PM

Sunafterrain

Tres

It's interesting that you say school was a filler and that you got an MA in psychology as a result of having been with your ex. That is exactly the path I'm on now. I feel like my life has to start somewhere and I have a genuine passion for psychology as well as the medical field. It's constantly evolving, which makes it more interesting, but I want to take that knowledge and help other victims understand pathology. I'm curious what did you/are you doing with this degree? Are you a therapist? I think I only grasp a little bit the concept of filler. Is it to fill an empty hole in your psyche or life? Is it really unhealthy to have "fillers" in our lives if the outcome is a positive one and moves us forward? I wonder, Tresor, is it possible to over analyze our childhoods to the point where we feel that they will never be resolved and that the rest of life, the things we do to achieve goals are merely fillers? I'm sorry, I'm trying hard to understand what is meant by this. What I'm seeing in my own life is that I know what happened to me in my childhood and a lot of that played out with the ex. I can identify it. I can tie knots way back now. I can grieve the loss and I often feel it, and while I have this knowledge, is it necessary to dig so hard as to over analyze or pick ourselves and our childhoods apart or assume that until we do we're just empty vessels doing nothing but filling empty spaces? I wonder if just knowing is enough and then CHANGING the behaviors we have had that have been destructive in whom we choose to have relationshits with. Do you know what I mean? A lot of this is hypothesis on my part, but i'm curious as to what you think of that? As to your statement about school, I'm truly sorry to hear you feel that way. I think having an MA in psychology is an admirable and remarkable achievement, not a filler. I don't mean to invalidate you, Tres, but I admire and respect that you took a bad experience and did something positive with it. That, to me is positive, not filler. Blessings.

#12 Sep 30 - 5PM (Reply to #39)

greengirl91

Sorry to interfere in your

Sorry to interfere in your talk, but I applied for a Psychology degree too! :-) Al these Narc experiences, childhood traumas, must have a cure. One of my dreams is to be part, or develop a system, in which people like us, from shacky backgrounds and abuse, can find HOPE. By following their dreams, by discovering happiness and beauty in themselfs, even if there weren`t helped much by caregivers/parents, or life itself. Just an observation, I noticed many people passionate about Psychology here, and I`m one of them too! I feel like something bigger is working here sometimes, even bigger than ourselfs. Power of the Light :-)

#13 Sep 30 - 2AM (Reply to #38)

tresor2

Sun

The reason I believed school was a filler was because I initially enrolled for the wrong reasons. I enrolled because I was trying to figure him out and also because he had made a comment about me "only" having a BA degree. Instead of dealing with my own wounds after the N experience, I focused on learning about his disorder. As I learned more about PD, I tried to fix him by pointing out things and attempting to "teach" him about how his behavior was hurtful and inappropriate; LOL. Bad idea. I saw all of this as another filler that kept me from dealing with me. As time progressed, I began the inward journey but it's been a process and continues on. I think it's wonderful that you found your passion and I think this field will help you a lot in terms of your own healing. And the other part is that it's difficult to support others on a journey that we have never been on. Thanks to N, you'll be able to help others recover from N abuse because you can empathize and understand. I wish I can find Goldie's post on fillers...if I do I'll send you the link. A filler can be someone with whom we have relationships but is really filling in for the person who caused the initial damage. For example, if dad was unavailable, we select unavailable partners to recreate the wounding in an attempt to resolve it. It's a cycle and until we wake up to it, we'll keep creating the same damaging situations. And no, anything positive is a good thing. Absolutely, we can definatley get stuck in analysis paralysis. But to me, getting to know who we are involves a journey back to the early days. I did this late in life, never really gave it a lot of thought until the last N. The point of going back is not to resolve it but to understand it, accept it and forgive it. For me, the abusive relationships had everything to do with my childhood and I needed to work through that in order to understand the connection and to go forward. Now it's done and I'm happy I did it. Actually, I rarely think about it anymore...the blog triggered the thoughts. I made the statement about school being a filler because it kept the N experience alive. All I wanted to do was understand and figure out a way to make it work. I had a ton of self blame. I don't regret having done it but, psychology was never a passion until I met N. Now I'm obsessed with pathology and psychopaths and I work as a MFT intern. I see your point and yes, it was a positive thing in the end and now, I get to work with some amazing people. It's not a lucrative field but very rewarding. Follow your passion, Sun. You'll not go wrong. Thank you for the post.

#14 Sep 30 - 12AM (Reply to #32)

freaked

Sun, this paragraph from your

Sun, this paragraph from your reply to Tresor is a very important discussion: What I'm seeing in my own life is that I know what happened to me in my childhood and a lot of that played out with the ex. I can identify it. I can tie knots way back now. I can grieve the loss and I often feel it, and while I have this knowledge, is it necessary to dig so hard as to over analyze or pick ourselves and our childhoods apart or assume that until we do we're just empty vessels doing nothing but filling empty spaces? I wonder if just knowing is enough and then CHANGING the behaviors we have had that have been destructive in whom we choose to have relationshits with. Do you know what I mean? A lot of this is hypothesis on my part, but i'm curious as to what you think of that? Sun, Tresor, what is troubling me too much is that why do i need to learn so much about PD...why is my every waking moment filled with thoughts on how to handle this mess... I had a lousy childhood, i have a disturbed marriage...I am asking will this Karma thing never end?? I also need some years of peaceful life.. why is suffering becoming my constant companion? I know I am completely frustrated. I agree this kind of venting i am doing is harming me even more...WTH.. i also want to be loved, i also want to LIVE.. why is it we are going on being victimised like this? @Lillymarch.. i am suddenly remmebering you...same situation as me.. when will this cloud lift away?

#15 Sep 30 - 2AM (Reply to #34)

tresor2

Freaked

I really hear you about your frustration with learning so much about PD and N's. Sometimes I sit back and can't believe where life has brought me. Sometimes I want to make this all go away so I can be normal but, I wouldn't know how to be normal. I know at some point, this part of the journey will be over but I'll never totally walk away from it because in a sense, this experience probably saved my life. The breast cancer was my big warning. So, I'm grateful for all of it. Everything is the way it's supposed to be. Work on loving yourself and once you do, you will attract love. Live and you'll attract life. I think Sandra Brown once wrote that technically, as adults, we cannot be victims. N's make us into victims again and it can be so difficult to get out, but, we do have choices, even though at times, we feel doomed. Keep doing the work, Freaked, you'll find your way out.

#16 Sep 30 - 2AM (Reply to #35)

freaked

thanks tresor

i pray that you are getting better now healthwise. yes, we may never know what normal is. i am deeply weary today don't know why. life is meant to be joyful..it is sad that we are in this situation. i too am 50+ and i feel embarrassed that i am in this mess. i had imagined a peaceful middle-age years..never imagined these things would be happening. so difficult life is for women who trusted a PD for decades..and suddenly realise that there is nothing guaranteed.

#17 Sep 30 - 2AM (Reply to #36)

tresor2

Thanks Freaked

I'll be fine. I'm 50+ too and sometimes feel embarrassed about all of this but, I look at it this way. The way I was going, I was either going to die prematurely or do the work on myself to put an end to my self-destructive ways. I'm simply done with misery and bad choices. (I know, as we get older the choices deminish in terms of partners but that does not matter at this point.) My life didn't turn out the way I wanted either but we musn't fall into the black hole of negative thinking. As long as we are alive, we have choices. I work with clients who live off of General Assistance in the amount of $450 a month who are happier than many people I know. And you're right, nothing is guaranteed; people change and do horrible things. We have the freedom to move on and do positive things with our lives. As long as we let others dictate our mental state, we've lost our power. It's time to take it back and to take step towards achieving our own personal freedom.

#18 Sep 30 - 3AM (Reply to #37)

freaked

thanks again Tresor

what you say is true. i too must try to overcome this debacle and somehow move on. it is all very sad, but at least we are alive. i also will try to stop bemoaning as it just makes us further fatigued. take care dear. love and blessings.

#19 Sep 30 - 1AM (Reply to #33)

58 and going strong

Wanting to be wanted so

Wanting to be wanted so desperately is what led me into my final dating desaster. BUT - I needed that lousy experience to understand what had really happened in my life. I still want, but meanwhile it is wanting to love and be loved, to accept and be accepted 'as is', and that is something completely different. And for me it started here on this board. And now it grows freely. And that is plain wonder-full(!).

#20 Sep 29 - 11PM

foreverfun1

yeah i'm really seeing that

yeah i'm really seeing that my father was a Narc. he gave me the silent treatment for a whole year from age 15 to 16 because i had a bf. he tried to kick me out of the house but died in a drunk driving accident thank god. i've never missed him for a second. he fits all of the criteria of a narc. it feels good to finally see why he did the things he did.

#21 Sep 29 - 6PM

FarmGirl

I never cry anymore I'm too numb

But this post & the comments have me choked up. There is so much I'm hiding. I think it's time to talk about it. :/

#22 Sep 29 - 11PM (Reply to #29)

Sunafterrain

Well FG

When you are ready GO FOR IT GIRL, GET IT OUT, isn't that the mantra here? :) HUGS

#23 Sep 29 - 1PM

monilove

Yes, I know mine

I have mentioned in my postings here before that I was molested as a child. Nothing of a truly invasive nature I'll say.... but nonetheless repeated inappropriate behavior. I won't mention what family member did this to me, but will exclude, my father, mother and two brothers. It was a more secondary family member. I made the mistake of telling my exN this (he was the only person I ever told - with now the exception of mentioning it here on this site) Because he never missed the opportunity to tell me what a damaged piece of shit I was because I was molested as a child.. oh yeah, and how I suffered from PTSD and all those other lovely, warm, comforting things he would say. That's neither here nor there, because my abuser approached me years later and asked for forgiveness. I did forgive him, as he was very young and although it certainly did have some impact on my life, I know this world is not perfect and people do imperfect things. My next issue that I feel has caused some damage is that I am the child of a white father and black mother born in 1975 (they are still married to this day - yay mom & dad!) and when my brothers and I were born, it wasn't exactly as "en vogue" as it is today to be bi-racial. I suffered alot of teasing and name calling.. Zebra/oreo/half-breed - yada yada yada. Blacks accepted me unequivocally and white kids called me Nigger even though I look Italian! : ) I was always told and always believed that physically I was a beautiful girl and now a beautiful woman, but all of this still wreaked havoc on my self esteem. I was always outwardly outgoing, but inwardly very shy and hurt. So I suppose the combination of always feeling "different" and somewhat tormented, combined with being molested as a child, led me to develop some minor, "NOT MAJOR" trust issues. I say minor issue, because my trust issues rarely manifested themselves in my daily life, but I could see where I could be someone who attracts the wrong person. I have had wonderful amazing boyfriends in the past and my current EX is the only experience with a Narc that I have had... so I think this is more of a rare occurence, than the norm. I no doubt have some self-esteem issues, but I do pretty good at keeping them to myself. Hugs

#24 Sep 30 - 12AM (Reply to #27)

58 and going strong

Moni, my granddaughter

Moni, my granddaughter referred to herself as 'daddy is black, mommy is white, and I'm chocolate-vanilla' when she was 3 years old. She is 5 now, beautiful and intelligent like you, and I pray she will never have to experience what you went through. People can be so cruel, but this board is a step on the 1000-mile journey to changing the world! Big hug, beautiful!

#25 Sep 30 - 12AM (Reply to #25)

Sunafterrain

Moni

I wonder if you felt genuinely loved and accepted by your parents and am curious as to whether or not that helped you in your life, provide balance even though such racial hatred? My children are bi racial too. Mexican/Indian blood. A few of them have been tormented as children, but were able to overcome it. I think partly because they knew they were loved and accepted by me. that this helped in some way, deal with the prejudice. Do you believe this for yourself? You seem very strong and very self aware. I hope you never have another experience with a disordered one again :)

#26 Sep 30 - 1PM (Reply to #26)

monilove

Sunafterrain

Oh I definitely felt very loved and accepted by my parents, however; I do not think they were even aware of the impact that being bi-racial had on us, because I never really told them what I was experiencing. So they were never given a chance to help me through my pain. I was pretty shy and quiet as a kid, so I did not divulge much. Maybe that came from keeping my secret of being molested as a child. I learned to hide things! Hugs Monique

#27 Sep 29 - 5PM (Reply to #23)

tresor2

Monilove - The biracial

experience is complicated and not talked about much. My family and one child is bi-racial and the experience was difficult at times. It definately effected my self-esteem. Sounds like you suffered a lot of abuse and discrimination growing up...people can be so hurtful and most of it comes from ignorance. I'm glad your abuser appologized for his grossly insensitive and cruel remarks...can't imaging how hurtful that was. I think a N is going to create trust issues regardless if we are predisposed to having them. They'll either create new trust issues or pour salt into the old wounds. Sounds like you've done a lot of work and have a pretty good idea of who you are. The narc experience can happen to anyone, and you're lucky it happened only once. I'm sure you're not going to allow another creature like that to create havoc in your life.

#28 Sep 29 - 11PM (Reply to #24)

monilove

Tresor2

Your warm response is greatly appreciated. Your understanding of where I'm coming from really touched me. Thank you. Hugs Monilove

#29 Sep 29 - 8AM

Layla

EXCELLENT topic!!!!

Knowing and understanding why we allowed these abusers into our lives is crucial to our recovery, I firmly believe this. Ironically women tend to pick partners that resemble our fathers, but I am not one of those. My mother (who ultimately "wrote me off" about 8 years ago and hasn't spoken to me since) is the original "N" in my life. I grew up being the family "scapegoat" and being the oldest girl, given too much responsibility in the family for my age, whatever the age would be. It was made pretty clear my entire growing up being ignored and made to feel insignificant yet only paid attention to when something needed to be cleaned or a smaller sibling needed care. When I entered my teenage years, and my child body became more womanly, she grew jealous and treated me with utter distain, but did so in a "quiet way".....I moved out of the house one month after my 18th birthday and never went back. Because of my abuser, I was forced to look at my life and really pick apart why I choose him. I may have never processed all these other things, had it not been for his coming into my life and nearly destroying me, and for THIS, I am grateful. Love and peace to all of us today, and always! love~ Layla

#30 Sep 30 - 3PM (Reply to #21)

Tigerlily

Wow Layla!

Exactly the same here! My mother was the narc and I was also the eldest child. I had good relationships with men who resembled my father, but my relationships with men who resembled my mother were very traumatic. My mother tried to seduce ALL my boyfriends. She also told them that she knew how awful I could be, and if they had trouble with me, she always had a ready ear for them. I also felt I was carrying responsibility for the whole family from about age 6, Id guess. I moved out when I was 17, a year after my father did. We often had periods of a year or longer where there was no contact, and our relationship was never easy, though I forgave her and supported her during her last illness, a terminal brain tumor. It`s amazing how many parallels this forum brings to light. Best wishes in your continued voyage towards yourself! Love Tigerlily

#31 Sep 29 - 11PM (Reply to #20)

Sunafterrain

Layla

I completely agree with you on that. we can do nothing to change our perceptions or to keep ourselves safe without knowledge. I can say I wish I knew then, what I know now, but I didn't know. Knowledge is power and provides the seeds to sow and to harvest in forging better choices in the future. Hugs.

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