The Path Forward Virtual Retreat Febuary 2021!



Azucar's Story

32 posts / 0 new
Last post
#1 Apr 1 - 6PM
azucar
azucar's picture

Azucar's Story

My ex-N broke up with me about a month ago. We had been dating for 18 months, but had been very close friends though, for the last 4-5 years. There had been no fights, and although he seemed a little distant recently, I thought that we were just going through a busy period, with work and deadlines (we both work in the tech industry). And so I came in that night, to his house, as I usually did, thinking everything was good between us. I looked at a project he was working on, for free for his friends, gave some feed back, and gave him a hug, letting him know how lucky his friends were that he had taken on the project for them. I kissed the top of his head and he nuzzled his head into my chest. This sort of affection was normal everyday behavior for us. Then I went off to make dinner. 45 minutes later, he was staring at the floor, telling me "It's over." I felt my stomach hit the floor and the blood drain from my face. I was in such shock, I asked him "What do you mean?" Still without looking at me, he said "I have been struggling with us for months. You said that you always loved my fearlessness, well, we just have different energy levels" That was a pretty general statement, so again I asked, "What do you mean?" "I like to go cycling, we haven't gone." This was the first time I had heard about his passion for cycling....funny because he has a bike in his garage that I have never seen him use. Next reason: "I wished you had more friends that you could introduce me to"...I don't really know what to say about this. Yes, he has allot of interesting, exciting friends, he's been a musician in the same city for 15 years! I only moved here a few years ago, and so have fewer friends but we are tight, but he never seemed to find them very interesting. Why would that matter anyway? But before I could say anything else "And you worry too much about things". I was overwhelmed. These were lame excuses, but also the first time I had ever heard of them. "How long have you felt this way, since Christmas?" It was early March. "Since before Christmas." I asked "Why didn't you say anything, don't you understand in a relationship that is full of love, mutual respect, and sharing you are supposed to talk about reservations when they come up?" Answer: "I didn't want you to jump though hoops to make try to make me happy". Interesting, in other words, it's your job it to make me happy, and when you fail, because its impossible for him to be happy, I will use the most ridiculous perceived faults and use them to devalue you and push you away. My last question: "Why are you doing this? Is it that you love me, but you are not in love with me?" His answer: "I don't even know what that means".
At which point I got up and packed my things. He watched me and lent me his suitcase. And that was it, a 20 minute one sided conversation ending to a relationship that had been years in the making and just 18 months long. Just so that you know, I am 34 and he is 37, even though the break up sounds more like a middle school dumping. I walked out of there in shock but somehow knowing I had escaped something, but I didn't know what just yet. See, everyone who knows my ex-N thinks he is cool, handsome, funny, bright, even outrageous, generous, and charming. A friend who will do anything you ask him to do (as long as its not too inconvenient and it makes him look good in front of peers whose opinions matter to him). But I know him, I was there behind the scenes, I saw how he criticized everyone around him, but was different in front of them, his general lack of empathy, how he liked to let people know about his accomplishments, how he believed he was a truly gifted lover, the hidden rage towards his father, how he couldn't really handle criticisms, how he has this sense of entitlement, and that the rules don't apply to him, how he pushed for threesomes even when I told him I was worried about how it would effect our relationship long term. How he shouldn't have to compromise, even for the one who loves him the most. About a week later I saw his profile on Match.com, surprise surprise dating already. What I read, how he presents himself to the world, is ridiculous and immature, exaggerating his lifestyle and coming off shallow, and he described himself as an open-communicator!!!! I know that I would not date this guy if his profile was my only impression.
I realize now, the reason I became so involved with him on a emotional level is because we were talking to each other non-stop for 3 years on IM before we even dated. (It's how we are encouraged to communicate to each other at work, rather then get up and talk.) We met at my first company, but when he moved to another company, we continued to IM everyday. Little by little I was lured in, I believed him when he said looking for a special lady, who would be like his mom (and now that I know her, that's crazy because she is a pretty difficult lady). That he wanted to settle down and find the mother of his children. BTW he said all of this while he had another girlfriend that I didn't know about, he doesn't understand anything about interpersonal boundaries. We came close to dating once but then he confessed up that he was seeing other women and he wasn't sure. Finally I told him that if he at least respected me as a friend he would leave me alone. At this point I knew I was somehow falling for him and I was trying to preserve myself from someone who was obviously unavailable emotionally (boy I didn't realize HOW unavailable).
4 months later, the 9 page letter. "I have been going to therapy, I am changing, I want you, you are wonderful, I see you as my wife. I have these problems, won't you forgive me? I want to be worthy of your love, that is my goal in life." And I folded. I became the girlfriend he could finally bring around to more adult events like weddings and baby birthdays, special events, so he wouldn't be the odd man out. After a couple of months, he stopped going to therapy, because it was expensive and the crisis was over. The first few month were wonderful and I gave my heart to him. Then I began to see the behavior I mentioned above and more, but it was nothing overtly terrible and I figured I could deal with it, and continued to give him my support love and affection. But I see now, he got bored and slowly pulled away from me. Slowly I began to feel more anxiety and I wasn't sure why. I had become the Madonna no longer the whore, only good for nurturing when he needed it, until he was ready to move on. He went through the motions, to keep me near, for months until he was ready to move on. I had no input because I'm not a real person in the relationship. Blinded by love and optimism, I didn't realize that the same way he evaluated and devalued others to make himself feel superior, he would eventually do to me. I gave him so much and he just received, giving not much back. But I didn't see that until now, because it is natural for me to give. For the most part, I am a happy person and I didn't need that much from him. And I trusted that like a normal human being he would talk to me, like I did to him about any issues that came up. But it was all a charade, a play he was acting in. Even so, having someone whom you have basically spoken to for every day for the last 5 years drop you like you were nothing is pretty traumatizing. But now that I know what he is, I feel a little better, like I am recovering from a hangover. Now I am the one who is going to therapy to figure out my own part in this mess, but one thing is for sure, him dumping me is the best thing he could have done for me.

Apr 19 - 5PM
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

I'm thinking psychopath

You wrote maybe he was just "immature." Maybe. But, also, maybe a psychopath/sociopath. Not all are the roller coaster of nice Dr. Jekyll alternating with mean Mr. Hyde--narcissism. Sociopaths can be real predators who are really ruthless & cold-blooded. They lie in wait. Your's was dissatisfied for awhile. A Narcissist feels his entitlement so acutely that he would lash out immediately. No patience, narcissists have no patience, they cannot tolerate ambivalence. Also, an "immature" man would also seek gratification and try to get what he wanted. An immature man would discuss things with you. This story has an absence of emotion. When he was finished, he walked away. And, how carefully everything was designed that you were at his place. Really, his life was not disturbed in any way. He's done this before. And, his mom's saying that she was glad you had your apartment evidences that. That she even called you. She knows. He's been through a lot of women. Of course, "it didn't work out." Every woman is an inter-changeable object. There is no reason. Just couldn't go to another level because he has no other level to go to for intimacy. I would like to see that nine page letter. I think if you read it very carefully, you will see that it is all about him & his fantasies. Mine wrote letters too. On first reading my mother thought one was very beautiful. But, when I explained it to her, walked her through, she saw it . . . it was all about him. We mistake all that fantasy for emotion engendered by their love for us. Nope. Fantasy & manipulation.
Apr 19 - 9PM (Reply to #31)
azucar
azucar's picture

There was definitely a lack of emotion

At least thats how I feel now...as I was packing he was just looking at the floor and I asked him "Are you ok?" and he said "I feel like a raw nerve". But he still looked pretty blank to me. I don't know. I guess the only reason I veered towards him being an N is because it seems to me he is uses sex with women for validation. Among mnay other things...I dont know. I honestly dont know. I look back now and even on the best of days I feel like perhaps he thought he was happy? But just play acting... I don't know. But thank you for the food for thought agnesmurphy17...
Apr 1 - 8PM
Introspection
Introspection's picture

Hello Sugar...

You sound like you are a very strong, intelligent and beautiful female. We really dodged the bullet and now we should thank God for protecting us from a lifetime of pain. Here is to a better future and here is hoping that we forget our bad experiences and "de-damage" so that we do not miss out on a good healthy relationship.
Apr 1 - 9PM (Reply to #6)
azucar
azucar's picture

Thank you

Seriously, to come to this blog and witness all the pain these men bring to the women in thier lives is unbeleivable,its almost criminal~ I really wish I had known about this personality disorder years ago...but we all have to go through this journey and become stronger as a result of it. I hope you stay strong and remember that people full of darkness are always drawn to people full of light :) So nurture yours!
Apr 3 - 6PM (Reply to #7)
Introspection
Introspection's picture

Many, many huggs Azucar

and I agree, we are better women as a result of this experience. I've read a lot of the stories posted and think that our stories are not as bad or ugly as when compared to theirs; but then again, my brake happened 2 years ago...I'v e had time to semi-recover. I had a relapse as a result of letting him into my life again, I really need to get away one last time and I know it'll all be over. Please tell me a little more about your current status, I helps me to read from other's stories.
Apr 4 - 8PM (Reply to #8)
azucar
azucar's picture

Hi Introspection :)

My current status, barely over a month after the break up, could be described as stabilzed: Last weekend, It was my birthday, and although it was difficult, I went ahead and organized a dinner party (my freinds only). Time to celebrate my new direction, and it went well. Then, the next day, at a brunch someone introduced me as N's girlfriend. I almost cried but managed to keep it together. Then, about two hours later, N's stepmother called me to say she had heard the news and that she wanted to offer her condolences. It was too much and I started crying. I asked her what N was saying had happened, and she said: "He's saying it just didnt work out". That stung, because it made it sound like there had been some sort of mutual discussion and agreement to end things, perhaps over a period of time, and not the traumatic blind-sided 20 minute conversation that is was. So I told her exactly what he did and asked her "What kind of a man does this? I have never been so devalued in a relationship before." I was glad someone who has known him his whole life will know just how erratic and selfish his behaviour is. She even told me she was glad I had not lost my apartment by moving in with him. On the plus side I can see now how N had had me in some kind of wierd limbo, where all of my energy was flowing into him while he had complelety detatched himself from me. Now I am taking that energy back into myself: I have been making new freinds and have even gone on some coffee dates. Even though I am not ready to date, Meeting these other men and just talking to them reminds me that there are non-self absorbed "normal" men out there who are not flashy and shallow. I agree that alot of the other stories I have seen here make me realize that not only did I get off easy, but that his level of narcisissm was more subtle. So I still have moments of doubt, I still wonder if he really even is a narcissit or just really immature. Sometimes it makes me so sad to think that what we had was not important enough to even warrant a conversation when he started having his reservations. I still get confused...did I invent his narcissim to blame a disorder on some failure on my part? When you have been listening to that little devil in your ear for so long, its hard to see clearly how a healthy relationship should work...But then I remember all the things that led me to think he is a narcisist, and I can wipe away the fog from my head. One thing that helped me too is that my therapist, just based on the story I told him, agreed that the relationship was not healthy and that N had some serious issues. That professional validation makes me a little less wobbly. I haven't cried in a week, since that phone call. I remember too, that I am still the woman he wrote that beautiful 9 page letter to, the one where he wrote it was his "life's goal to be worthy of your trust and love". Of course, I have grown since then, but he knew from day one the woman I am, as we had been so close for 3 years before. So for me to suddenly not be good enough for him is on him. I never hid any truths from him, he knew what I wanted, how I felt, from the first day he asked me into his life as a partner. It is confusing, but it hurts a little less each day. The only reason this speedy recovery is possible is because of the NC. I mean the reality of it is, he probably doesn't even think about me, and the steps I have taken to make sure there is no NC is probably not necessary, but at least I won't have that possibility hanging over my head. I don't have bad dreams anymore. How are you?
Apr 18 - 3PM (Reply to #25)
lostmysoul
lostmysoul's picture

Telling People

I am still protecting my N from his friends who ask me what the hell happened. His best friends girlfriend who i became quite good friends with, asked me this, and i said what is HE saying happened. She said he's saying i wasn't over my marriage and that we moved too quickly. I said that's not the way I would describe it. We are getting together for drinks to talk agbout it - i feel bad to tell her, as her boyfriend is N's best friend, but i should care and protect him. He is the one who told me he loved me after 2 weeks, adn i was teh "love of his life" for 2 years and then found his blackberry with a bizarre conversatino about anal sex with someone with a hot mail account. Then, after not confronting him, but getting up at all hours of the morning to read more in his blackberry - torturing myself. These are the reasons we are not together, not becasue of me. I loved him with all myh heart. I am just having teh worst time getting over the life i miss - the life he lead me to believe we had. It's been 3 months today. I just can't stop crying. Any advice?
Apr 18 - 7PM (Reply to #29)
azucar
azucar's picture

I tell the truth

lostmysoul, You have been trough an incredibly traamatic situation and you need to cry... you are human unlike your N and you have to.. I think we all will for years, but hopefully each time you do you feel a little better? Writing in my journal about all the ways my N was bad for me helps, or whatever it is specifically that has me crying, missing him/feeling rejected/feeling I let myself down/ect. It can be tough to for people to relate to the bizarre traumatic experience you are going through, especially if they haven't dealt with an N before....telling mutual freinds can be so painful, because you relive the agony each time, and they probably have this glowing vision of the N (that he projects for them). For some reason its important for people to understand the kind of madness you have been subjected to but how do you let them know without just sounding bitter? I have approached telling freinds in two ways: mostly I just give them a detailed, factual, almost unbiased account of how/why he broke up with me, and some of his actions in the relationship. His own actions damn him as someone who is selfish immature and emotionally manipulative... I don't go into my theory of N because I don't know if they could handle it. The other way I handle it is like this: There are one or two freinds who do know what N's are, and I tell them pretty much everything, no holds barred. But telling the truth os key for standing up for yourself. Let the world see see him as he is! You owe him nothing. By the way, I learned to stop asking what he is saying went wrong becasue it will only drive me crazy, he won't dare tell the truth...and I know the truth anyway. Your N needs to rewrite history to save face in front of the mutual freinds, and he will continue to do so. Keeping a journal has helped me keep a record of everything that has happened so i wont forget the truth. Now, although I dont ask what he's saying occasionally freinds will still just tell me. In that case I tell the the truth..."No it wasn't that "we just didnt work out", he let me think everything was fine until the last day and then dumped me in 20 minutes. I was ambushed" "No it wasn't just me wishing he really loved me and too attatched, he told me he saw me as his wife and ASKED me to move in" "No I didnt see it coming he was telling me he loved me up until the day he got tired of me".. It gets easier each time you set them striaght. Also N's are not always as smart as they think. I bet some of thier freinds have sort of seen that selfish side and are telling you that its for the best because you deserve better. But I agree with Barbara, therapy is essential and so is NC. goodluck
Apr 18 - 5PM (Reply to #26)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

truth

No contact, therapy IMMEDIATELY. Tell friends "I could no longer stay with someone who abused me" If they ask for me tell them to read Lisa's book because you are not ready to talk about it. But TELL THE TRUTH!!! ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
Apr 18 - 8PM (Reply to #27)
woundedsoul36
woundedsoul36's picture

Lost...

You and I are alike...fresh into this Lisa's Book is awesome and so is "women who love Psychopaths". Reading everything I can about narcissism is an obsession of mine now..and it helps keep me away from contact with him. Everyday I grow more indifferent to him and his faux charming self, his lying by omissions, his too forced mysterious BS, withdrawals, the silent treatments, the ignoring, denial, crazy making nonsense. After first, when I stumbled on the definitions of a psychopath/antisocial/ narcissist...I sat here with my mouth open for a good 15 minutes, then I lost my breath and cried. Tears just streamed down my face as I went to site after site and read about them. THIS is what the man I fell in-love with REALLY IS. I couldn't believe it. I think I'm still in shock. I confronted mine and called him out. All he was really concerned about was that I he couldn't believe I said those things to him. Not that he was sorry, not that I was incorrect, not that he was genuinely remorseful...just enraged. I havent spoke to him since- it's been 3 months. For the first month and a half I was so sad. I felt like a hollow, empty shell of my former self. I felt small and defensless. I cried alot, but I kept reading everything I could. Pieces of the puzzle just kept coming into place. i found this site and read as many posts as I could. This site is home. I only have moments of sadness now, now I'm pissed and I've accepted he is what he is and can never be the same man who I thought he was...the man he pretended to be...never existed, was a lie, a front, a facade. It's true that we are the lucky ones, as others have stated~ we know what they are and escaped or are about to
Apr 18 - 8PM (Reply to #28)
azucar
azucar's picture

lying by omission

woundedsoul, they are masters at that. One of the hardest things to deal with is, not only is the relationship over, but there WAS NO REAL relationship to begin with. It makes me feel so empty and used...when I am feeling my worst. It's been like 6-7 weeks now? And I am just only now really beginning to accept that it was all a farce....
Apr 4 - 10PM (Reply to #9)
Introspection
Introspection's picture

Keep me centered...

Thank you Azucar for the detailed account; I’m not sure why but reading about your story really centers my thoughts. For example, your account about you not being certain whether he is an N or not, I wrote that same thing on my initial story but I think its us trying to make them for normal because although they hurt us, we only wish them happiness. That is the NORMAL thought process; they do not have this thought process though...one they day love us for a lifetime and the next they were done with us! That is not normal, think back to your other relationships; isn’t it true that you saw it coming. That a normal man would have treated it differently. Hinsight to one of my first boyfriends who I NOW know that he was an N. I didn’t care that he left me becuase I was already disgusted and not in love by the time he left me and got married to someone else a couple of months after our 4 year relationship. My other boyfrieds were normal and the break-up was normal, no drama. I have got to admit that I am blown by your strength. A month after my break-up, I was a mess. Heck a year after my break-up, I was still a mess. You on the other hand are doing very well. I know it must have hurt you deeply to meet the new gf. There will be many others, that is the way our x’s get off. They need variety and validation. A few minutes ago my x just called to see HOW I WAS DOING? I used your mental technique and combined it with mine during the conversation. I got to tell you though, I am blessed. I’m getting stronger each day and by the time I relocate, I will totally done with my past. I’m optimistic and looking forward to a bright future. I’ve always wanted to FALL IN LOVE and this is a curse now. I shouldn’t be so ROMANTIC and just learn to love life for what it is...enjoy its gifts even if it is without a man. Don’t let my optimism fool you, I may feel great right now but earlier I wasn’t well; that is the rollercoster mood ride I’ve been in since the breakup with my x. You have to continue to remember that you are that beautiful woman describe on his 9 page letter. You are and will always be. The way you handled this ordeal says a lot about your courage and wisdom. Although I do not recommend that you inquire about what he says about you or even contact his family anymore, I know that deep down inside, we NEED this information to rest our mind. One of the things that prolonged my pain is that I continued to ask about him and learned what he was doing. Now I remind myself that its about me and not him, it helps in the recovery process. Although he left me, I have to keep things in perspective, he left becuase he needed variety and I was on to him and it would take to much work to conceal so it was time to drop me and find a new victim. It took me a while to understand that I was not an UGLY, UNATTRACITVE female so learn from my mistake, its NOT US. I hope you had fun today, I stayed in and was depressed mosst of the day but feel better now. Continue to post your progress and do go into detail...I’ll understand it sometimes you will post something that completely changes a day later...it is common in our state.
Apr 5 - 2PM (Reply to #10)
azucar
azucar's picture

Yes there are tough days too.

Introspection, thank you for your kind words. I am sorry to hear you had a sad day. Its bizarre that something you know is wrong for you can still effect your self esteem. there seems to be no way to know what day is going to be a good day and which is bad. I just hope the good days are more frequent than the bad. So, I know I blubbered but what I meant was, I was the one who was introduced to a group of people as N's girlfriend. Thing is, he has friends everywhere, and a lot of them don't know that we broke up yet, even some of my co-workers who are also mutual friends tell me about their basketball games on Sunday. See, N, doesn't really feel the need to let anyone know, because he doesn't care. Or at least that's how I see it. I only recently have had the strength to tell people we broke up when they ask me about him, without getting upset. Anyhow, I know the day will come when I see him somewhere with a new girl, and I agree with you, I know that unless he's had some serious therapy, she will go thru the same cycle I did.. I know exactly what you mean about doubting your attractiveness...did I mention that since my birthday was last week, I am technically too old for him? (His online dating profile-the one I was matched with before I blocked it- is looking for woman 28-34, since I just turned 35 so I'm too "old", keep in mind he's about to turn 38. It sounds like that call you got was totally a way for him to fish for some sort of emotional feedback from you as well as making him feel like he is such a GREAT guy, who still cares about his ex. Mine tried that as well, asking about my computer on an email, if it had been set up (keep in mind I had asked him to help me out with it for weeks before we broke up and he never mentioned it, now suddenly he is asking about it and glad to hear it is up and running). And in the email he didn't use my name, but called me "lady" as if I was one of the many women in his life he sucks attention from. I told him I didn't want to talk to him again, but if he ever DID have a reason to address me again to call me by my name, not "lady" and that I deserve better than that. But there are days, like today where I feel like trash, literally a soda can that he drank dry, crushed, then threw out of his life. It seems unreal and sad. Thing is, I won't let that stop me from being romantic and falling in love again. I am optimistic, and yes that made me hope for the best with a man who was emotionally unavailable and I got hurt, but imagine what will happen when we meet someone who gives back? Someone who appreciates the little things as well as the big things you share with them? I know they have to be out there! I have met men like that before and I will again!! oh and you are right about not asking about what he is saying, I just wanted to hear it once. And although I love his parents and I know they'd like to see me next time i am in their town, I won't contact them. stay strong!
Apr 5 - 9PM (Reply to #11)
Introspection
Introspection's picture

The good days are definiately more frequent nowadays

I really goofed when I offered my x an opportunity to come back into my life; I re-opened those wounds. But then again, I may have always wondered WHAT IF. Now, I may just stop loving him (or better stated, stop loving my past with him) and see him for who he really is. He can still hurt me but not profoundly anymore and that is a GREAT. I totall misunderstood the new gf thing...sorry, and having to tell everyone that you are not together anymore has got to be difficult. Once they ALL know though, they will STOP giving you updates and that will be a blessing. Once they stop mentioning his name around you, it will make it more manageable/tolerable for you. You know, I’ve read over my x’s Match.com profile and I can tell you that most of what he wrote is BS, to include the AGE range that he posted. I’ve always known that he is particulary interested in older women yet in his profile, he posted that he is looking for women between the ages of 32-40 (he is 45). I know...we are old compared to you :-)! Azucar, your interpretation of my x’s call may be on point. I was wondering why after a week of NC, he was calling me to see how I was doing? I tried to shorten our conversation but he kept me on the line much longer than he normally does. Then today, he was at my office for over an hour...he is twisted. I’m not a B***h with him becuase I have no family or friends in this area and he is the closest thing to a friend (that doesn’t even sound right so I expect you to call me on this one!) He calls you LADY and my x calls me SWEETIE! I keep reminding him to call me by my name and he will comply but will revert back to same...seems like ALL N’s thought process is mis-wired THE SAME. They all like variety, love themselves, claim to be perfectionist (my x’s calls it being a VIRGO), go hot and cold, recycle (in other words, they always seem to come back), are into threesomes, are really loving at the beginning of the relationship and dump you like you are yesterdays trash, enjoy to emotionally drain others... I literally teared when I read over you last paragraph which states that one day we will find someone who appreciates the little things as well as the big things we share with them. You are YOUNG and still have a long way to go but I’m over 40 now. Its been three years now since my break-up and I just can’t see it happening for me anymore. I’m always at work and I rarely go out. When I do get out, its to a resturant and I hate to eat alone and I hate to go out by myself. I am against dating anyone at work and I ABSOLUTELY do not want to do the online dating sites as it appears that ALL Ns use this medium for find their prey. I hope your day was uneventful and that you focused on the GOOD things throughout your day. You too stay strong and don’t forget to keep me posted (details please :-))... Happy Belated Birthday!!!
Apr 8 - 1AM (Reply to #12)
azucar
azucar's picture

Thank you Introspection

I am sorry you are having a tough time coming back into the world. But even though it's been three years and it seems like that is a long time to you, it's ok as there is no appropriate grieving time, it will take as long as it takes. Time does not heal all wounds, by itself anyway...I think we have to make small steps for ourselves in order to get there. BTW I don't think anyone in thir 40's as over the hill but if you feel that you want to remain single from here on out, of course thats an option, a single full life is possible for anyone. But I think maybe if you just make steps at connecting with other people, just as friends, you may find yourself getting back in touch with the woman you were, before the N. For me, I joined meetup.com (I suggest you take a look, they have groups in every city) and signed up for ladies brunches, movies groups, ect you get the idea. I meet these people, who in many cases don't know eachother either, for a couple of hours. After a few meetups I have made one or two interesting new friends. Meeting people like that, without the expectation/stress of hoping to meet a significant other could restore your faith in people and yourself a bit. (i.e. hanging out with "normal" people) I try to push myself a little, it is my goal that within two months I will actually organize a meet up with one of my groups and who knows maybe even after that, start a group myself, I can see it now, "Ladies who love Pasta and Lifetime Movie of the Week" :) It seems like deep down inside you long to be with someone you can share a life with, if that is the case, don't give up! From the way you express yourself you seem like you are a caring gentle woman who has the potential to be part of something special, if you want it. And again, I can't state enough how the NC and therapy hs helped me... As for me, I posted an update the message board "And the award for best actor goes to.." Basically my N is acting. Acting concerned about my wellfare to our mutual freinds. To save face no doubt, or because that how he thinks he should act. Upon hearing that I was uneffected. Later I got angry. When he dumped me, he more or less insinuated that I was afraid of life and couldn't match his oh so incredible energy level. To think that he is acting like I am some little girl who can't handle life without him and saying God knows what to friends....it drives me crazy, it's so insulting... then tonight I went to a casual dinner with a man who asked me out. Just to remember that not all men talk about how amazing they are...after I left I had a moment of sadness, thinking about how somewhere out there tonight he is proabably on a date with a pretty girl, who is so thrilled to get to know him. And although my head knows its useless to even think about it, I go back to thinking "How could I not have been good enough for him? How could I have been replaced in that seat across from him in the table so easily? How can I still cry and need support and therapy and he can just keep moving? It hasn't even been two months and I am like trash to him, no matter what he tries with his overblown shows of concern to our freinds, just dropped, and my NC is just a convienient way that he can erase me from his life even faster" My mind knows the answers to all these questions, but my heart is still broken, like it has never been before. It's not easy, but I just can't give up... I don't know how. I hope you are well :)
Apr 8 - 8PM (Reply to #13)
Introspection
Introspection's picture

I find that many of the

I find that many of the posters on this website have the same difficultites overcoming/forgetting our Ns. We understand and realize that they are not good for us yet we feel like “trash” and even when we start dating, our new potentials appear to come SHORT when compared with our xNs. In my case, I know that my x was a “beautiful” man. He obsessed about his looks and worked-out every night. He is very well groomed and dresses to impress. Normal men are not so much into their looks so they pale against these type of personality disorders. N men are confident and they work on making US dependant so naturally, all others fall short. I imagine most of the men that left us are similar in description? I appreciate your kind words about regarding the over 40 and over the hill reassurance : - )!!! Your statement that you believe that I long for a relationhsip is correct! My statement that I will most likely not find this person is related to the fact that I rarely ever go out so I will search for information on meetup.com per your recommendation and the fact that it appears to be a “fun.“ I have not been able to locate your “award for the best actor,“ bet that is fun to read. Are you saying that your N has been trying to contact you? WOW! That would really be a change. Listen, when my x first made mention of his need to “take a break,“ he was caling me daily. I thought we were still an “item“ and turns out we ““were not. My point is that I think they feel an sense of making it APPEAR as though they care...hmmm, perhaps at some level, they do! It may be because of the “recycling“ phenoum; do not want to burn the bridge...dunno but that is my best guess. All Ns HAVE to find something wrong with us...mine started to call me a “phyco.“ Stupid, I am far from unstable!!! I wouldn’t pay too much attnetion to what he used as an excuse to break-up with you. THEY are VERY creative. WE have to realize that it could have been the COLOR of our hair that offended!!! AVOID Automatic Negative Thoughts (ANTs) and anytime they come rushing in....STOP THEM. You are a beautiful, strong, intellegent, caring female. One day in the near future when you are sitting at the beach, drinking a margarita with your new husband who is busy tending to your needs, looking into your eyes and telling you how much he loves you, this will be a faint memory and a BAD experience. I hope your day was peaceful!
Apr 8 - 9PM (Reply to #14)
azucar
azucar's picture

hahah thank you Introspection

I love the image of my dear husband on the beach, thank you for that! Today was a fabulous day. Also, thank you for for defining what I was experiencing, I had never heard of ANTs before. I will have to do some reading on that. So here is the link to my "best actor" post: http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2010/04/06/and-award-best-actor-goes But another day, another update: A very close mutual friend of ours emailed the N today to see if we could go on a double date (because a few people still don't know we broke up). His short reply was "I won't have a date"-that was it. She was shocked and in some way he realized that was a bizarre thing to email so then he wrote another email: "It's been about 5 weeks. Please don't tell her you've talked to me, just let it come up naturally." Anywhoo, this friend briefly dated him for a while, years ago, she knew and knew something was up. She emailed me to let me know what happened. I decided to email her and let her know everything. See, she had been married and divorced to an N years before and later stopped dating my N when she suspected he might be one. They remained friends, she started dating a wonderful guy, and I met her though him. We bonded quickly and she actually tried to let me know about her concerns for my sake. But when we started dating he was making such a big show of being happy with our relationship, that I think she and I were both just hoping for the best...that he was working through his issues with therapy and ready to settle down, and he hadnt actually been diagnosed... Well once I told her what happened, she was so happy for me, because she finally knew that he was what she had always suspected and that he was not going to change. Again more validation. Years ago, she had actually talked to HER therapist about him at one point and he disliked him immensely. She was very "you go girl" and was glad to hear I had started therapy to begin the healing process. Its wierd, but true, that two ex-s from the same N can help eachother. Especially since she and I know all of his behaviours, it kind of gives you a witness to N's insanity. And that makes it easier to bear. Peace and hope to you Introspection Azucar
Apr 13 - 9PM (Reply to #15)
Introspection
Introspection's picture

Hi Azucar...

I belief that the reason why we continue to seek for Validation of our assessment that they are ill is because we simply DO NOT UNDERSTAND the illness. We (most of us on this forum) realize that there is something wrong but wonder if perhaps it is just a “falling out of love” situation or are they REALLY Ns. In my case, I think that for years I had continued to HOPE that he wasn’t an N because that would mean that one day, perhaps he would come back…dunno. It’s highly frustrating for me that it took me years to get over him and even now, I sometimes miss us; yes, even after ALL he put me through. Help me understand why I do NOT HATE “it?” How can I possibly even tolerate his presence? Think through it, he cheated on me; he left me when I was physically sick and completely devastated and even provided me with assistance in killing myself so that I could “put myself out of my misery!!!” This is a real dog of a person and yet, I still “care” for him and his well being. I guess it is good for me in that I do not have to deal with the “negative” feelings related to hate. It’s been a good two days and I am doing well, I’m at peace. I’m working out and watching my diet. I’m looking for a job with another agency and looking forward to CHANGE. I’ve resigned myself to be happy with what I have and don’t have and learn to love life and forget all past experience. Tell me about your day…
Apr 14 - 12AM (Reply to #17)
azucar
azucar's picture

Resigned to Happiness

Hi Introspection, I think one of the reasons NC is so important is because if you don't enforce it as much as possible, the N will use every opportunity to show you and others how wonderful he is. It sounds like that is exactly what your N is doing. Witnessing "good" behaviour plus the good memories in the relationship could confuse you and maybe even cause you to question what you know~ that he's an N! We don't truly understand the illness because its hard to think and treat/see people and the world the way they do. Your mind can understand how damaged they are but your heart is not so sure, becasue although we all have some healthy narc traits we could never understand how a person could go that far, especially when they initially captured our hearts with a act... As for me, I would say the last of my doubts of my ex being an N have vanished because of a list I have created. Bascially it lists all of his N behaviour, as fairly and balanced as I can, with specific examples, I email it to myself so I can updated it as often as possible. My N was subtle but when you put it all together its paints a picture of a monster. Not someone who is just selfish or immature, but a real monster. It prohibits me, or at least it seems to, from romanticizing the siutation (because I don't know if I could call it a real relationship)and I dont actrully miss him, atleast not now. This weekend I met with two good girlfriends, seperately. It was the first time I had seen them since the break up. The first is the wife of the N's good friend of many years, who lives upstairs from the N. She is about my age, and she and I, including the other wives of his friends used to meet regularly for dinner to catch up. The last time I had been with them, the topic of conversation had been, when are you moving in? How is that going? To which I responded I was still working out the details, but yes it was going to happen,and that we were happy and had even talked about kids! (These women and thier husbands are the N's freinds, and are in his age group- in thier mid-to late 30's...he is the only one of them not settled down single with no children... more than once N told me he felt like the odd man out when he was with them and I suspect he started dating me to seem more "normal/adult" to them) She told me that he had avoided talking about the breakup to anyone thus far because he knew they would all "give him shit". All of the ladies guessed that it was something to do with him, as he has an erratic past, and four days before the break-up I had still been talking about moving in at dinnr with them. They aren't stupid. In some cases where I know a person won't understand what an N is, I just give them the details/facts of what he did without relating what I have found out about N's. I just feel that unless a person has had a relationship with one, they won't believe he's so crazy and EVIL and yet seems normal and charming. His actions speak for themselves anyway. The other friend is about ten years younger and is a fantastic singer. She is part of a group of friends of my XN who represent the other side of his life, being a muscian, in which everyone is in thier 20's. He hangs out with them alot, even when they are not gigging (this man is 38!) Anyway, she looks up to him as a big brother, but we have a special bond because she had been in a relationship with a very selfush individual(another musician) and I had tried to be there for her. Telling her was a delicate process, as my XN is her bassist now and they will gig regularly, but I was honest. To my suprise she was so understanding she actually started to cry and was sad to see just how selfish someone she had looked up to actually was. Having been in a relationship with someone who bascially lacked empathy and disregarded her feelings herself, she knew where I was coming from. I have decided that although I want NC with the N I am going to keep these women in my life, because good girlfriends are hard to find! Why should our genuine friendship suffer because of N's selfish existence? They respect, support, and now understand my decision to kick him out of my life. I also randomly saw the N for just a second on the street while shopping. I felt anxious for a second but then nothing.... Perhaps you could work on your N list? I hope you continue to have great days...
Apr 15 - 7PM (Reply to #18)
Introspection
Introspection's picture

Have I told you what a

Have I told you what a beautiful and strong person you are? I read over your story once again reviewed our communications to date and realized that you are wise beyond your years. You are going to make your future husband a VERY lucky man. We all handle situations differently but if you compare your story with many of ours, you’ll note that you have taken gigantic steps to recovery that many of us have failed to accomplish in years. It’s not about competing but it takes A LOT of courage to face and overcome these types of situations. I am now better but I’ve been a mess for over 3 years now. I see my life as one that is empty and void of love and know that it is because of my xN’s power and control over my life. It is downright embarrassing and humiliating to have to admit that someone has that power of us but YOU have really taken control of your life!!! It makes sense to keep your friends, after all…if you are not affected by your N so much anymore, this should not be a problem. Me, I’ve realized that the only way out of to cut him out of my life. This is truly the only way that I will FORGET him and ALL the experiences (good and bad) that we shared. I read one of Barbara’s earlier postings that her “psycho boy” came back to her life 27 years later…WOW, I hope that doesn’t happen to me. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I am a better person as a result of this ordeal and lucky for me, I got off this rollercoaster ride without a lifetime baggage; I consider myself very lucky. I continue to have VERY peaceful and pain-free days. Still looking for jobs outside the agency to include anywhere in the nation. This should be my final move and am hoping that once I move, it will all be over. I will take your recommendation to make a list of all the Ns behavior to the best of my recollection and continue to build on it. It has worked wonders for you so it should work worked well for me. Barbara left a message to read about cognitive dissonance to help understand why we have a hard time letting go even after they treat us like trash. This information was very insightful; I am glad that she made the recommendation. Knowing is power and understanding what is behind it all really helps me manage it better. Tell me about your day; any words of wisdom?
Apr 18 - 3PM (Reply to #23)
lostmysoul
lostmysoul's picture

Cognitive dissonance

please help me find this article, - 3 months today and i am a wreck. i still love him for who i thought he was, until i found out what he was doing. my heart has been torn out of my chest and i can't go a day with having a meltdown. WHY CAN"T I GET OVER THIS PERSON????? (2 yr relatinoship)
Apr 18 - 8PM (Reply to #24)
Introspection
Introspection's picture

Cognitive dissonance link

http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/03/20/cognitive-dissonance-obsessional-thoughts 3 months is recent and I still recall my first 3 months...those were the most painful months of my life. This article will help you better understand your situation. Sure wish I would have found this site back when I was in a GREAT deal of dispair. Keep strong sweetheart and this too shall pass. Many (((HUGS)))
Apr 18 - 3PM (Reply to #19)
azucar
azucar's picture

Thank you Intropsection

How are you doing? Have you had any luck working on that list? I think sometimes looking at a list of the characteristics of a Narc and writing down specific examples for each one will help and start jogging your memory to even more of the little things that you may have glossed over or forgotten. You know, even though actually seeing my N (and thanking god he didnt see me) left me feeling relativley empty inside, it doesn't mean I don't have days where I dont wake up, after having yet another dream where he is ignoring me and start crying asking "why?" I just embrace it as something normal and I write everything I am feeling down. And it is never actually about missing him, his presence. It is the trauma of just suddenly being let go as a useless thing. We went into the relationship and he made these grand statements so that I would let him back into my life. He had me meet the rest of his family this last Christmas. We didnt have any huge arguments just disagreements, spent plenty of time together and had, even in his words "good times". From the very first day I let him know I was ready to move forward just like he said he was, and I really believed we were going to move in together, get married, and have babies after a year or two. That was my reality that until the minute he told me it was over, with no warning. He knew he was going to do it, for months, he was so ready to have me out of his life that he was tenderly trying to hug me goodbye and call me baby while I was just trying to pack my things, in shock. He went from being the coward and not looking me in the eye, to trying to be the good guy now that he had it off his chest. So incredible, I still have a hard time even thinking about it. Anyway, writing it down and having a good cry makes the rest of the day lighter. Because the only way you are ever going to get closure for yourself when dealing with an N is by coming to some understanding or peace entirely by yourself. I am quite sure my N has already rewritten history conviently so he doesnt look so bad to himself and others while perhaps not painting a flattering picture of me. Maybe even forgotton about all the big statements he threw out at me when he was trying to get back into my life... who knows? Like you, I also feel lucky, I know that I have gotten off easy because other women here have gone through so much more than I have. Here's the thing that bugs me though, I would still be with him if he hadn't dumped me. I feel very conflicted that if he hadn't done that I would still be giving him my precious time, love and support...what does that mean for me? Also another sticking point, if my N checklist is long and growing, why didnt I come to the realization on my own that he was not good for me? These are all things I saw when we were together, not afterwards. I am not blaming myself but I don't want to see myself as a victim. I have just been struggling with how I came tio fnd myself int his situaion. Prior to meeting this N I was stong, happy, independent, and had had happy reltionships. But I have some to the realization that while I have some very strong personal boundaries there are a few that were not as strong as they should have been. Alot of my N's behaviour was similiar to my dads (being judgmental of others, based on thier perfomance, dating many women, small things like that) the crucial difference though is that my dad was a very young single parent and he was trying his best to raise me and grow up himself at the same time. Also for all of his many faults, he loved me more than anything else in his life. So I think I tolerated my N's behaviour becasue I had seen it before, and believed that underneath it all, since he said loved me, those were some of the things I'd just have to accept. Also being raised in a Colombian household, I was not taught to stand up for myself...as a woman you are not supposed to be negative, esp to the man in your life, you are supposed to the nurturer, you can be angry but not too angry, you should not hold grudges, strong but not as pwerful as the man, and it is your job to be the peacemaker, to be pleasant to keep a hppy home. If you have needs you are not allowed to ask anyone for anything. Occasionally my grandmother who was was boderline personality, would go crazy and hit me over a minor infraction, but then be wonderful the very next day. And I was supposed to act like nothing had happened and love her as she was. So as I grew up, the more obvious crazy things that happened to me, I was able to take a stand against and say, "that was not right" and understand that there were things I would not tolerate. But my N's behaviour was alot more fuzzy, he didnt hit me, take my money, be possesively jealous or talk down to me...and those are not things I would tolerate. If he had done so, I would have not had anything to do with him. But his behaviour, so similiar to my fathers, was not so obviously invasive at first and so I didn't quite know what I found acceptable and what was not. And although I can see now he was not giving me any kind of real love, support, acceptance, and expecting me to perform to some impossible level of stimulation for him, I loved him anyway because that's how I beleived I was expected to be when I was growing up. My father and I have since had a lot of discussions about what he was actually trying to teach me vs what I was percieving as a child...they were not the same and actually he's been very supportive and understanding when I ask him some potentially painful questions, Result: I was the prefect prey, object for the N. I am successful, mature, independent (so I wouldn't need too much from him), attractive, his friends all really liked me (important because I am a reflection of him his status), intelligent but in his eyes not too much so (because he can be brighter than him?),and accepting of some of his more trying behaviour. Now that I know what I was doing, I don't think I'll be so easy to please next time, I will expect and communicate my needs more. I will be able to say "No that is not ok with me": and not worry if that means he's going to leave or stay, it is just is the way it is. I need to work on defining my personal boundaries and be consious of whether or not someone is violating them. Did your N exhibit any behaviour that you may have been more acceptable of because of people who were in your life when you were growing up? Again this is not about putting any blame on yourself, but maybe seeing what the N smelled out on you and manipulated... Kepp having great days and keep me posted!
Apr 18 - 10PM (Reply to #20)
Introspection
Introspection's picture

In love, blind-sided and angry for being made a fool...

Hello sweetheart, I’m still doing well but know that I must get away from my xN. My thought is that he still sometimes controls me because I’m nice and he is evil. I wouldn’t be able to hurt anyone, to include him. I am not disrespectul or a jerk to him and he knows this so he takes advantage of this at every opportunity. I’m having difficulty with creating the list your recommended I prepare. I’m finding too many N characteristics lists and got really confused. Heck, I even thought that I was an N...lol. Here is what I have so far; he is errogant, argumentative, hot/cold, obsessed with his looks, always right, one female is not enough, can walk away from anyone, loves himself more than his family to include son and daughter. How is that for a start? Dreams related to the why are more likely a prodcut of the way he ended the relationship; you were totally blind-sided. I’m sure to date you replay a lot of your interactions and wonder why you didn’t see it coming. I remember the day I read the emails that brought me to face the cruel reality that I was in a relationship with an N. I remember jumping out of my chair, covering my mouth, tears started to flow uncontrollaby but the most vivid feeling of those few seconds that forever changed my life was that my body went COLD. My body started shaking uncontrollaby and this went on for hours that day. Unlike you, I didn’t go NC. I took him back on an on/off basis until he got tired and took a break from me. Fast forward and here we are today! To date I still am looking for closure though I realize this will never come. There is no closure when they continue to lie and shift blame. They have the ability to make you belief you are the pshyco! The second reason why I think it is hard for us to let go is because WE ARE ANGRY about being made such fools! I’m a proud person, consider my intellegent, independent, strong...I know you do also...and this is why we CAN NOT understand how they fooled us! These are two powerful reasons why we hurt and drag this ugly dead dog with us everyday. Thanks to you and many posters on this site, I am better understanding what I was dealing with and can now cope better. Nonetheless, I still have nightmares and every now and then, drift back. Picture this Azucar, picture me telling you that my x had introduced me to his family and made tall promises. Picture that I am asking you how to get over the fact that I was sure that I marry him and have his children...what would you tell me? Your upbringing is very much like mine. In my culture, men are dominant and women are child-bearing and submissive to their husbands. I however, do not have N parents so I was not exposed to it. I was not used to being treated this way and still did not pick-up on the fact that I was in a relatioship with a mentaly ill person. So I think that you accepted who he was not out of being acustomed to this behavior/treatment but rather, it was that Ns are very cunning. We can not possibly understand their world! We understand that there is something wrong...I remember telling my friends that when I was with him, “I didn’t feel at home“ meaning that I was not confortable...never was! This alone should have been reason enough to leave him but I was VERY much in love, same as you sweetheart. This was really the reason why we didn’t leave them, WE LOVED THEM. Like you I wonder if I will recover, I see everyone as being broken but I know this to be false. Look at all the NORMAL folks on this site. The fact that we have been exposed made us a better person! We now know a lot about these type poeple and we can now recognize them! It took me 40 years to fall in love so I know that if it happens again, it will be years from now. Perhaps this is the same thing that is happening to you, its not easy to connect in such a way that we go into the ‘crazed‘ in love feeling...lol. Sweetheart, if he hadn’t dumped you...you still would have at one point or another dumped him. Remember you were already starting to have physical problems...heart palpitations. You would have sooner or later realized what or who was causing it and dumped him. It is common to feel “conflicted“ when someone is treating you in a way that does not meet your approval. Think back sweetheart, perhaps you were already on to him and he knew it was just a matter of time before you dumped him so he beat you to the punch? Are you kidding about feeling that you are not STRONG and INDEPENDENT!!! You are being hard on yourself. You are not a victim, he was trying to make you a victim and you DID NOT let him, you left and walked out of his life! You went NC. Many of us are not strong enough to do this, YOU DID. Yes, yes and yes, we are a better person as a result of our ordeal. This will NOT happen to us a second time. We will be prepared to spot them and kick them out of our lifes before they hurt us again. We will have better relationships because we NOW appreciate NORMAL men. Like I said before sweetheart, we all have a bad day but you are SO strong, SO independent, SO attractive and even though we were reared as submissive, we are proud to stand up for ourselves and we DO NOT take their CRAP!
Apr 18 - 11PM (Reply to #21)
azucar
azucar's picture

thank you for your kind words...

Introsepction, I think the list you have managed to put together is pretty damning to me, especially in how he regards his children. I was also confused at first, thinking perhaps I was an N as well, but everyone has small amount of narcissism in them, at least from what I have read. The difference is that we do not ruthlessly use and draw emotion from the people we draw into our lives through a charade. We don't see other people as props in our lives to give us what we want. I have seen plenty of lists that have slightly different characteristics, so I just kind of put a patchwork list together custom made for that special N in my life, it was the least I could do :) I don't think the list will really help you as much as it could as long as he is near you though, and I dont think that will happen until you move this last time...so I just wish you luck in achieving that. Your insight has helped. I did let him know I did not always agree with him, I even if I could have been a little more assertive about it. I did tell him, "things are not always the way you see them" and "it's not all about you" , and even brought up a major issue and said to him "I need to know if this is a dealbreaker...would you compromise for me as I would for you?" To which he said he hadnt meant to stress me out, but did not answer the question. Perhaps you are right, and I would have walked away. But no matter what at least I am free. Thank you again
Apr 21 - 4PM (Reply to #22)
Introspection
Introspection's picture

I’m still blessed beyond measure.

I also read where we all have a small amount of narcissism and after I took a quiz, I’m convinced that I am not : - )… I’ll continue to work on the list but at this point, I’m well and since he is not overtly hitting on me, it is really not a problem at this point. Don’t get me wrong, I am still getting the hell away from him, you never know when they’ll start up again. I keep visiting this site because I want to learn more about these creatures so that I don’t make the same mistake again. I also like offering support to the beautiful women, whom these bastards hurt so much and hope that I can somehow offer them comfort in time of pain. My God is good to me and I know he blesses me every day. I have a good family, a job and my health…these are the things that are my focus at this time. I would be very HAPPY if I met my lifetime partner but if that doesn’t happen : - ( …I’m still blessed beyond measure. I hope your day was peaceful and that today you flirted with at least one guy…lol!
Apr 13 - 10PM (Reply to #16)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

why?

search this site for information on "cognitive dissonance" ~~~~~~~~~ Repetition does not transform a lie into the truth. - Franklin D. Roosevelt Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
Apr 1 - 8PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Welcome azucar

Welcome... - PLEASE go through ALL the pages on 'Message Board' as I have loaded it with articles and your questions have probably already been asked and answered many many times. Click through the pages and read what interests you. You'll get up to speed and learn a LOT. - if any therapist or support person suggests you are CODEPENDENT, CO-NARCISSISTIC, UNEMPOWERED or in any way shape or form responsible for this predator being in your life - they are DEAD WRONG. YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE. The internet, in particular - has become a great way to induce trance, hypnosis and mind control for pathologicals - then give them a convenient door into your psyche. It's them, NOT YOU! - PLEASE read the stories of others. This alone is one of the most validating things you can do. Far too many become completely wrapped up in their own drama... which just makes it all worse. - PLEASE read through our whole blog: http://allabouthim.com - chock full of articles about Ns and healing in the future, please read the Rules prior to posting, as well - listen to our free radio show - archived at: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/allabouthim - Please remember this board is NEVER to be used as a replacement for therapy. Please find a trauma therapist and start going as SOON as possible for whatever level of PTSD he's left you with and the deprogramming you need. ~~~~~~~~~ The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims
Apr 5 - 6PM (Reply to #2)
azucar
azucar's picture

MaddonnaWhore complex

Barbara, I just lisented to your talk about the Madonna Whore complex on talk radio. It was very enlightening...see my N and I would have sex up to 6 times a day when we first began to date, and I really beleieved we were bonding, as the relationship progressed, we still had sex more than most couples (3-4 times a day, when we were together) but I began to feel, I don't know, like he was watching me? Like it had become perfunctionary? There was no "I love you's" whispered unless I said it first. I look back now and realize it wasn't intimacy. I remember feeling that he was pushing me to have threesomes because he basically didnt find me to be enough for him, only a year or so into the relationship. I didnt get the feeling that he wanted us to try it to "explore our boundaries" together as a couple but more because he was frustrated that many of his friends who he considered less attractive (his words) had experienced one in in college and he had not. As if I was an ends to a means. I didnt realize that he could both turn me into an object/whore during the act, and then be completely withdrawn from me afterwards, because I had reverted to being sexless to him. so bizarre... Thank you for all of your insight
Apr 5 - 9PM (Reply to #3)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

why all the sex at the beginning

"explore" - that was Psycho-Boy's favorite word... like I was some foreign territory - NOT A PERSON... anyway, you'll get a lot out of this: The bonding hormone oxytocin is one of the most powerful natural anti-anxiety chemicals there is! That is why sex is so relaxing. During sex, oxytocin is released and you feel not only happy and bonded with your mate, but afterwards, you are relaxed and anxiety-free. Early in the relationship, the pathological isolates his woman from the rest of the world and her social network. Therefore, she has little emotional support from others that would normally serve to help her reduce or manage her anxiety effectively. Being with a pathological is anxiety-producing. The pathological has a fight with her raising her level of anxiety. She thinks about leaving or takes steps to leave the relationship and that triggers profound anxiety in her. Without friends and family as support to help her manage her anxiety, she is in need of anxiety relief. She turns to the pathological himself—both the creator and reliever of stress. He gratefully relieves her anxiety through sex. She feels closer to him during sex, hormones are released, and afterwards she is indeed, momentarily less anxious. And with her hyper-hopefulness, she believes they will reconnect during sex and it will heal the current conflict. The excitement seeking in her that found the pathological’s extraversion attractive is now hitting the wall and causing extreme emotional exhaustion. The adrenaline rush she used to have at his “edginess,” “risk-taking behavior,” or just his extraverted dominance is beginning to burn itself out. The drama, the highs and lows, the daily power struggles, the weekly uncovering of some new lie and the constant fear of being abandoned are all now producing fatigue. A dichotomy exists between the excitement she still feels with him when the relationship is smooth (which is becoming less frequent) and the utter exhaustion that comes from being in a relationship with a pathological. The pathological has a remarkable relationship thermometer and when he senses her distress at the relationship that may cause her to give up altogether, the pathological can turn it around by sparking the relationship fires again. For the short term, he may use all the excitement techniques that he knows she likes. The woman rides a roller coaster of adrenaline and fatigue that will last far beyond the time she spends with him. The exhaustion can also come from not only the emotional roller coaster of life with a pathological but also from the pacing of their lives together. Since many pathologicals need much less sleep than normal people, lack of sleep is likely to catch up with her. The pathological consistently keeps her awake, demanding her company while he watches TV, picks fights, or wants marathon sex. Her diet, exercise, down-time, spiritual practices, and friendships all go by the wayside while her stress levels increase. The fast-paced lifestyle contributes to a total deterioration in her health. Her physical exhaustion can greatly increase her emotional fatigability. She is now unable to hold her ground against the pathological, and despite the exhaustion, she remains hypnotized, fixated on his extraverted, often very sexual, highly exciting persona. Sandra Brown, MA - WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS (this book addresses both Ns and Ps together) ~~~~~~~~~ Repetition does not transform a lie into the truth. - Franklin D. Roosevelt Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals