Breaking into tears all the time

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#1 Dec 9 - 8AM
StillHurting
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Breaking into tears all the time

I am having a hard time, and I don't know why. This has been over with Narc for a while. Maybe the realization and deciding for myself to end the romantic part of this is what is shocking me; it is finally going to end for real. Coming to terms that I devoted so many years to this person, and for what? Living on some promises and words that were told to me maybe when he was stoned? Some romantic letters and nice jewelry? What?

It is very hard to concentrate and comprehend my work-related things, and I am very bright and sharp. Most mornings start off in tears. Not sure when it will stop or when it will feel okay.

I know some of you are going through this, or you have already passed this stage. Not many people want to talk about this with me because they don't know what to say, and people saying "you're better off without the loser" does not help, as you know. We already know that!

Dec 10 - 5PM
Leah
Leah's picture

StillHurting

It makes total sense to me. You've officially ended your attachment to him, and that has opened a dam, and the tears come flowing out like a river. For me, whenever I acknowledge a truth in my life, my body experiences an energetic shift...and I often cry. A lot. Yeah, I avoid sharing about the recovery process with friends, even close ones. They don't understand. Keep coming here for that understanding & support. : ) And you always offer so much wonderful support, to all of us. I'm glad you're here. -Leah
Dec 10 - 4PM
momoya
momoya's picture

the

the emotionalstress/heartache/dissapointment/realizations- I have been under has been off the charts of anything I had experienced before. I got shingles! I have never in my life had shingles and asked the doctor why and he said stress. The break up of a relationship with a narc is especially painful and takes longer to recover from. Sometimes even your closest friends can't seem to be there for you. If you need to seek the help of a good counselor so you can talk it out and work through the pain.

momoya

Dec 9 - 7PM
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Still Hurting

I am sorry you are going through this but I want you to listen carefully - well thats silly I'm not talking but you know what I mean. Every single one of us here have been exactly where you are. Some are going through the same stage with you. The pain does feel unbearable - at times I felt I was losing my mind. I fought so hard to put things in perspective. I am just going to share with you where I'm at right now...I'm at about week 12, 13 or 14 not sure for me time doesn't matter...what matters is I feel better. Early on I believe I had a nervous breakdown - just last week I was really down in the dumps, then they cut my internet off for a few days - I switched companies we'll see if I can juggle but I needed something connected to the outside world. Today I see this man is essentially WEAK. WEAK. WEAK. He is a child in a grown body. Yes, if he is a Narc/Sociopath he could be dangerous - but really the way I see it today he is laughable. LAUGHABLE. To be so disconnected from his feelings, to be so insecure he has to play games. The problem is we took them seriously and it's a bruise to the ego to have invested, to have loved and cared and all that good stuff and find out it was never real. But let's look at it from a wide angle lens for a minute. At least that is where I am at today. He is an infantile jackass. I am not saying it with hatred, or trying to be funny. That is how I see him. I'm taking away the psycho-babble, the analyzing, the trying to figure out why...all of that is relevant to a point - then the jig has to be up because you can be stuck on anaylizing for the rest of your life and will never ever ever figure it out or really have an AHA moment when it comes to them. The AHA moment you have to strive for is for SELF. Mine to this day will tout "I have to forigive myself" NO CLUE, NO IDEA, NO CONNECTION, NO CONCEPT to what he's done. IMPOSSIBLE - WON'T EVER EVER HAPPEN. HE IS A DISORDER *SOMEONE SAID THAT AND IT IS TRUE. Empathy pants need to be stripped ASAP. There is a process of mourning. But for me, it was my psyche and my ego that could not connect any of it and I was so shocked that there are human life forms that walk this earth that are disordered, AND there is nothing we can do about it. That is the first step...you have to accept that. If you go back to some of my writings, I was all over the darn map! Shoot, I think last week I was two steps away from starting a FB Cause...LOL - NOT but I get how you go back and forth back and forth back and forth. If that piece of matter ever comes near me God help him. He's been told not to have family contact me should he happen to drop dead. That is where I am at, and that is where I will be forever. My forgiveness equally, has to be towards me. I don't hate him, I don't love him - I am officially indifferent. I am wise now that he might try to do something to ruffle my feathers. Today, it is a source of amusement, entertainment, flattery from a distance and a great source of laughter because I see him as pathetic. Literally a five year old stuck in this big man's body and it really is an akward site. I don't expect you to be where I am right now, but when you get there - you will see just how ridiculous these men are. Pure cowards - nothing masculine at all about them...as in MANLY MEN - just children. We deserve love, an equal partnership, and appreciation - not the opportunity to baby sit. My child is 13. Any other childcare I get involved with at this point - I expect compensation. Feeling like you're sleeping with a child is not the greatest feeling. They are great pretenders...frauds...and useless. Your value far supercedes what you have settled for. BELIEVE IT...really BELIEVE it. Heal. Hugs.
Dec 10 - 5PM (Reply to #23)
Leah
Leah's picture

Michele, I so needed to hear the words you wrote to StillHurting

They were perfect. I'm going to re-read them soon. *deep breath* -Leah
Dec 9 - 7PM (Reply to #21)
StillHurting
StillHurting's picture

Thank you, Michele

Thanks for your thorough reply. I do realize some things and am coming to terms with them. He did the best he could for what he was capable of and needed at the time. I did not have it as bad as some out here, and I am thankful. He was mostly very very kind and loving towards me, but the issue is he stopped and seems to not remember any of what he said, and does not want me to bring up the past. He says it was a long time ago, and I should forget it. He is married, and I should have never gotten involved. It is the last time I will take pity on anyone and put their needs before mine without careful thought.
Dec 9 - 8PM (Reply to #22)
anonymous
anonymous's picture

Still Hurting - Kind and Loving

I'm so sorry you're going through this. Michele is right - we've all either been or are here. Something important to understand - this is not a normal grieving process. As you probably saw from the PTSD thread - there is a lot more to this than *simply* grieving the end of a relationship that just didn't work out. Not that going through that isn't painful because it is. But this is far different. Going through this was far more painful than my own father's suicide and I loved my dad probably more than I've loved anyone else in the world except my daughter. That being said - perhaps it would help to focus on the little things. That's what I've been doing lately and it's helped me put perspective to the whole thing (like Michele's wide angle lens). Forget the big stuff for a while. You said that he was mostly kind and loving to you. But he must not have been all the time, otherwise you wouldn't be here. You would feel sad, like it's too bad we weren't compatible, or had different philosophies, or didn't like the way the other dressed. But that's not what happened. So, during the devaluation and discarding of you, what were some of the little thoughtless, insensitive things that he did or said? Little stuff, not big stuff? And pick the one that sticks out in your mind the most and ask yourself two questions. 1) Would you do the same kind of thing to someone you cared about and not feel sincerely remorseful afterward and try to make amends? and 2) Would you tolerate that sort of insensitive, unclassy behavior from anyone else in your life? And if the answer to #1 is of course not, then the simple fact of the matter is he is not good enough for you. And if the answer to #2 is yes, then you have a lot of work to do to focus on yourself and figure out why it is that you tolerate other folks treating you badly. And if the answer to #2 is no, then it's the same as #1. Hope that makes sense. Hang in there. It's like Sarah McLaughlan's line "This is gonna hurt like hell." But it will get better.
Dec 9 - 1PM
Scoop
Scoop's picture

It feels like you are damned

It feels like you are damned if you do and damned if you dont when you leave the narc, there is a choise pain if you stay and pain if you go ... great eh? That is what makes leaving and NC so hard because for a long time after you leave you still feel rechid , and its this that marks out the diffrence between a normal break up and a break up with a disordered person.when we are with the narc i dont think we really understand how stressed we have become , we go into survivel mode and that is every day all day , when we leave it takes a long time for youre brains to realise the danger has gone , its post traumatic stress which brings with it some very dreadful feelings for a while , crying in the morning is part of it and very normal , in fact crying for hours on end is normal , feelings that you cant face the day is normal, panic disorder can kick in for a while which is just horrible but can be controled by meds very well ....but the up side is all theses feelings die down and go when you leave or are left and if you had stayed the stress would cause far more deeper problems ... Its this very fact that it is terrible if you say or go makes us very strong cookies , never underestamate how strong we are . The time frame i would say is i began to creap out of the pain at about 5 months nc ,im now at 11 months and it has been the hardest thing i have ever had to do and there where days and even weeks where i thought i would be stuck in the pain for ever ... Its so true that time heals all wounds , time and no contact are youre friends .xx
Dec 9 - 12PM
spinning
spinning's picture

Really great post...

I am now on day 33 of NC and am finding myself somewhat mired once again in the hurt and sorrow. The thing is the situation is not new. The entire five year relationship was difficult at best and a lot of work, head scratching and "spinning" to try to stay on top of things; waiting for the next silent treatment, the sobbing, the passionate proclamations of loving me madly, of being his best friend, the only one who listens to him, etc., etc. The cognitive dissonance of his words and his ACTIONS not adding up. He would disappear and not take my calls for days for perceived 'infractions' on my part. The hamster wheel I spun round and round on... ...I too am educated, have a responsible, high visibility job, take care of myself and my home, etc. and wonder how I got here, so "wounded" because of another's disordered self. Really, like you, I know people do wonder why I put up with as much as I did for as long as I did. I wonder this myself. Thank you for commenting that you are somewhat indifferent now, though it took a year. I am impatient with myself and my feelings. I had hoped that by now I'd feel better, some relief. The 33 days of NC is a huge milestone, the longest in the entire five years. I should celebrate. Instead I feel lost. I pray to reach the indifferent stage. Really, I really needed to read your post today and your honesty has given me hope. I know it is up to me to process and let go. Thank you again, Sincerely (trying hard to stop) spinning

spinning

Dec 9 - 12PM
Journey
Journey's picture

We understand

I've been 16 months out of the relationship and just reading this thread this morning has brought the tears back. Sometimes I don't think I'll ever want to be with anyone as much as I did with him. He was a one of a kind fit for me that I'd never known before and now that I know about mirroring, I may never know again from a 'real' man. I have stopped questioning myself about why I still hurt, or why its taking so long to get over him - especially with the revelation over the past few months that he is a narc. I just accept that I do still hurt and I don't blame myself for that or think there is anything wrong with me because I am not 'over it'. I often wonder if the pain will ever really go away and I think it is unlikely unless I fall in love again and can stop missing all the good. The things about being with him that I miss were real for me and what we actually did together was real for him too - just not the emotional depth of our experience. What I read from others in the posts in this thread about how he responds to us still caring/hurting is exactly the same. He said the same things and just doesn't get it at all because he never valued what we had in the same way. To him, if I hurt still, I am living in the past... to me, I am trying to live in the present, but like a death of someone close, my memories of what I loved about him and having him in my life aren't easily forgotten and the pain of that loss doesn't just end because I think it should. I try not to talk about him anymore but it is difficult to stop myself sometimes. I am getting better about that since finding this forum and I completely understand why my best friends don't want to hear about HIM anymore. All they know for sure is the result of the relationship and how much I've been hurt. They don't care about why anymore, they just want me to feel better and be happy. I'm still in the (somewhat obsessive) 'finding out why' stage of recovery and coming to grips with the reality of my relationship with the ExN and that's okay because that is where I am. If I can get through a whole day without crying once I consider myself in a 'good' mood and if I can ever get through a whole day without thinking about him at all, I'll consider myself starting to actually 'get over it'. Until then, I'm not. I accept the process for what it is and how long it takes is how long it takes. Skipping over any part of the healing to get there faster doesn't work for me. Not embracing how truly painful this has been for me just seems like denial of my own reality and I want to purge ALL OF IT. Journey on...

Journey on...

Dec 9 - 5PM (Reply to #17)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Trying not to talk about HIM

I got an email from a friend recently said she missed the times when I'd wax rhapsodic about my crushes/infatuations. Yes... but I remember who the object of my passion was at the time (interesting I use the word "object") She missed the days when I'd speak, head-over-heels in love with him. I know of whom she speaks. I wanted to say "HE WAS A JERK!" but I preferred saying nothing. Instead, I simply talked in response about how I'm doing NOW. It's like... she remembers all that from a decade ago(!!!) Don't worry. I didn't mention him. With another friend, he is simply called He Who Must Not Be Named... the alias of the villain in the Harry Potter series. I've been in contact with my former professors (some of them)... and let's just say you wouldn't think he ever existed, if you read our exchanges. I've conversed with the professors who were on my senior oral committee... and you wouldn't think he was on it.
Dec 9 - 9AM
mystwoman
mystwoman's picture

I understand exactly how you

I understand exactly how you feel with this. It is very hard for us to get our minds around the pain and deception. I was D&D'd six months ago, and I've been NC for five months except for having to see his face at work. Every time I see or hear him, it's still like a knife stabbing my soul. My tears have slowed some with time passing, but I'm not really sure how much the pain is fading overall. I think it is, but this is a really slow process for me. I know that the anger towards xnh for all of his forms of betrayal is very prominent for me now. My emotions are really up and down...a true roller coaster. I'll be strong and happy one minute, and something will trigger the pain again. Before I know it, I'm crying or wanting to beat the crap out of xnh. Sometimes it's just little stupid things like last night on TV. There was a show on about John Lennon. No big deal. I'm not a rabid fan or anything, but it was an interesting show. There was one scene that showed him and Yoko walking in a park holding hands after many years of being together. What pops into my head was, "Gee how nice, he actually LOVED his wife...unlike MY worthless husband. I'm loving and lovable. Why don't *I* deserve for my husband to love me? I loved HIM!" Then the waterfall of tears started. No, you are very correct, people saying "you're better off without the loser" doesn't help. To me it really only shows that they truly don't understand. However, lots of us here DO understand. Hugs.

______________________________________________________
God sometimes removes a person from your life for your protection. Don't run after them.

Dec 9 - 9AM (Reply to #6)
StillHurting
StillHurting's picture

Glad people here to do understand

The hardest thing right now is his saying "That was a long time ago, forget about it. You are living in the past." I will say, "I thought you loved me so much, what happened to all that? It's just gone?" And he tells me to stop talking about how he used to be then, stop living in the past. That was before.... I feel when you love someone deeply, you love them forever. It is making me think it was all a lie or something, though I know it can't be possible. Do any of you struggle with is this Narc behavior or just a love affair or marriage that didn't work out? I find it confusing. If the man was married the whole time, what chance was there anyway? Still and all, he made me the object of all his attention and affection for so long, and so now what? That never existed? I am the living proof that it all did happen. I am here. I have the letters, the presents, the phone message tapes, the memories. This is where I am at now. Maybe feeling like a fool or an idiot, and I am not. I don't know what all of your backgrounds here are, but I am smart, college educated, etc. So I am finding it hard to believe I was fooled. Is anyone else feeling these things?
Dec 10 - 12AM (Reply to #14)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Still Hurting

I think it would help if I pointed out some things in your post. It seems like you are struggling with cognitive dissonance. How much have you read up on NPD? I'm not sure and if it hasn't been much, I encourage you to do lots of research. It will help brainwash you back to what the reality is. It is very very hard to cognitively process that people can actually suffer from this affliction and act out the way they do. There is nothing you or anyone else can do about it. Right now the professionals feel they are incurable. First you say: The hardest thing right now is his saying "That was a long time ago, forget about it. You are living in the past." I will say, "I thought you loved me so much, what happened to all that? It's just gone?" And he tells me to stop talking about how he used to be then, stop living in the past. That was before.... What you need to understand is that you were targeted. This has nothing to do with education, wisdom, strength - anyone can be a victim. They are MASTER MANIPULATORS. They study you carefully before they go in for the kill. These Narcs have these empty voids very deep empty voids. Very deep DARK voids. They are empty/souless but they master the art of illusion. They play a game of three card monty with reality. They know exactly how to play you. And they tell you everything you want to hear and they create a false reality for you. You exist, your love exists...they are just a mirror reflecting it back at you. They need to feed off of supply - in this case, the temporary source was you. As long as you did not challenge, ask questions, have expectations and were easy to tame...all was good. BUT at some point there was a pivotal moment where you were no longer good supply. There could be various reasons for this. There was a posting about an emotional scale I think Jen 79 posted it and it was a very good analogy or means of technically explaining what happens. I will try to find it and copy it here towards the bottom. The newness the honeymoon period gives off all kinds of chemical charges...the "High" for the Narc - but when you become human make demands, have expectations - are not simply playing into what he has decided your role was and how your character needed to be cast - and you start to get hep - you need to be not only discarded but degraded because you inflicted a narcissistic injury to his fragile ego. The only way he knows how to shield that is to cast blame on you, dismiss your feelings and concerns and minimize by refusing to provide closure or validation. This is where the gaslighting and crazymaking behavior begins and it is the beginning of the loss of your sanity if you are unaware of something like this. Of course he is demanding that you move forward and not go back to clarify, discuss, remedy or hash it out because that would actually FORCE him to have some accountability. In his distorted mind, he is perfect, he is king...you are the submissive that is to follow orders and not ask questions or have any needs...It is all about him - there will be no validation. KEY TO PROCESS: They lack empathy and feelings, consciousness and compassion. SO - you are operating in the realm of genuine emotions when he has none. He knows how to mimic emotions. He's studied people and their reactions for a long time, he knows how to play act these emotions but he does not have the ability to feel ANYTHING but sorry for himself. Other times he is numb walking around with a deep dark void and the only way he can fill it is by feeding off of others - AND anyone will do...and this is with EVERYONE...friends, family, lovers, wives, children - EVERYONE is an object whose only purpose is to help the NARC fill the void. THINK: Invasion of the Body Snatchers...it was a systematically calculated planned attack on your psyche but you had no idea it was taking place - which is why right now it seems all very minimal, but once the reality kicks in...you might go through some PTSD because a majority of us here have been suffering with symptoms - basically it was an emotional rape - a violation. And when you understand the reality of it it is very very shocking and for a while, the CD kicks in because you cannot process it - the mind will not let you. You have to almost unbrainwash yourself by arming yourself with information in order to validate to yourself that you aren't crazy - and most people will not understand this type of abuse; however, there is tons of information out there and there is nothing that says this isn't abuse - in fact they say this type of abuse is WORSE than the physical or the verbal...because it attacks the psyche. Seriously, a bad enough attack could cause a casualty due to the emotional distress. I'm not saying you're there - but you are in the loop of not being able to process which is understandable - trust me...we have all been there...you are not alone and you are not crazy. It is also very difficult to find a therapist who knows how to treat this effectively. They're not that schooled either so essentially, you have to do a lot of work on your own as well. But this place has been a Godsend. Next, you state: I feel when you love someone deeply, you love them forever. It is making me think it was all a lie or something, though I know it can't be possible. And very simply, it was all a lie - it was an illusion and it is very possible. There are thousands and thousands of resources out there that will document this. This is what it is, as much as 2+2=4. Where you are having the problem is that you are operating from a place where you do have feelings and you feel them and so you cannot process cognitively or emotionally relate to how someone could not have feelings. BUT it has been documented. Look at the few hundreds on this board alone. And there a whole slew of boards popping up daily. Not every Sociopath is a killer - all killers ARE sociopaths or psychopaths - BUT what makes them dangerous is the lack of empathy, the lack of a concept of consequence? The lack of compassion, the lack of remorse, they just don't feel it's not that they don't want to - they can't. Somewhere along the line, they were damaged. Some believe it is a biological defect. Some believe environmental, some believe the environmental caused a biological change to the Amalgyda...and some believe they were just born that way. Many many theories on the how...but there is no argument on the WHAT. There is nothing you can do about it - from a moral standpoint - maybe they can't help themselves? BUT they are capable of great harm sometimes physical, sometimes emotional, sometimes both and no amount of love in the world could change that, for we are just temporary supply. They get filled with the thrill of the chase. They can never fully connect. They're disconected from themselves. But they've learned how to master acting out emotions and they are exceptionally skilled. When you question how or why this type of individual would be created or walk the earth - some believe that in very primitive societies they served a purpose because they would make great warriors. It is in their nature to be predators. It is sad, and we hurt, and we hurt for them, but it is like a rabid dog...you hate to have to put the dog down, but it's gonna be either you or the dog and the dog cannot be cured. Same concept here....Tragic. I hope Science catches up although what the preliminary information seems to be pointing towards is that there would actually have to be a type of brain manipulation by implanting a chip or some sort that would "charge" the area that is affected. Not too sure how well that's gonna fly cause initially there would have to be an "experimental" stage. He didn't love you because he couldn't love you. You can love, you can heal, and you can love again. The upside is, you will be smarter next time and will be able to smell it a mile away - if you do what needs to be done for the recovery process. HOWEVER, you must drop the empathy chip immediately when it comes to him. You will be tempted to want to help, to understand, to help find a cure - it will be a failure. He sees nothing wrong with himself, YOU are the one that must be BLAMED. YOU are the one that MUST be crazy - for he lacks the ability to take true inventory because in his land of illusion, he is flawless. Which is why, they are also the perpetual victims, because they never see or can connect to how what they do creates the conditions in which they are "suffering" under - although I tend to think the only suffering they feel is the torture of the void - having nothing to do with external factors, like the objects *people...but themselves. It is Self Centeredness to the 100,000,000 power and nothing will ever penetrate. You must move forward. He's right you must just not with him. Good Luck and happy healing.
Dec 10 - 9AM (Reply to #15)
StillHurting
StillHurting's picture

Thank you,. Michele

I appreciate your taking the time to write all this, and it's a lot to think about!
Dec 9 - 11AM (Reply to #9)
mystwoman
mystwoman's picture

Oh yes, I know those

Oh yes, I know those feelings. I'm seriously questioning myself every day about how I was so fooled, and WHY I tolerate his abuse for so long. I, too, am an independent educated person. My only answers to myself (so far) are that I deeply fell in love with the person I thought xnh really was. I missed the red flags because I didn't WANT to see them (or simply couldn't bring myself to face them). Of course, if I'd forced myself to see through the cracks in xnh's illusion, I would not have loved with the person I really saw. I WANTED the person I saw as xnh and his love badly. My love was real. Xnh was a complete fraud. I fell in love with a ghost. He wasn't really the person I thought he was. The other question, I'm having a harder time coping with is "Why did I tolerate his abuse for so long?" Sixteen years is a LONG time, and I was in emotional pain a large part of it. I truly did feel that I was sleeping with the enemy the last years of the marriage. The only thing I've come up with in my mind so far, is that I didn't want to give up on the illusion xnh initially fabricated. I can be a stubborn person sometimes. My stubbornness about staying with xnh hurt me badly, in this case. I suppose I was being what my aunt refers to as "stupid stubborn" for tolerating his abuse for as long as I did. Sigh. As for living in the past, no that's not what you were doing. You were wanting your relationship to be better like you thought it was in the past. My xnh told me the very same thing. Of course, he would also then throw every single perceived "crime" I supposedly committed during the past 16 years into my face within the same breath. I wasn't supposed to "live in the past" but it was apparently alright for him to continually use the past against me. Now that it's not what xnh wants, he's blissfully trotting onward pretending the past never existed at all...and yes, it really hurts that I could love xnh for so long only to have him "erase" me in his mind like our marriage never even existed. Your comment, "I feel when you love someone deeply, you love them forever. It is making me think it was all a lie or something, though I know it can't be possible." Your love, your feelings, and your relationship were not a lie. They DID happen. Your intentions in the relationship were pure and honest. It was the narc that was the lie. Hugs.

______________________________________________________
God sometimes removes a person from your life for your protection. Don't run after them.

Dec 9 - 12PM (Reply to #10)
StillHurting
StillHurting's picture

To myst

Sorry you had such a long period of time with this person. You are very strong to be staying away from him, and I give you a lot of credit. I could overlook the temper tantrums and bad moods. I am very understanding, and I ever did was try to love him and make his life better. I hate to see anyone unhappy. He was very loving and attentive and kind to me. He didn't know me at all, and he just acted like that right off the bat. He would say, "I hope I am not calling you too much," and I didn't think he was calling me too much. I loved talking to him all the time. I remember around the time it all changed, but not sure of an actual incident. I know when people do like one thing to him he will hold a very long grudge. So there must have been something I said or did that made him think of me differently. I can't recall anything, but like I said, he was married, so I am not sure this was not doomed from day one anyway. Probably the thing that makes me cry the most is when I remember him saying a few times, "I wish I could hold you in my arms and never let you go." Okay, so then where are you now? Okay, see, I thought of it and now I am crying AGAIN!
Dec 10 - 7AM (Reply to #11)
anonymous
anonymous's picture

Still Hurting - Marriage

(((Still Hurting))) This is so hard. I understand, truly. Something that might help you is to think about the marital situation. Before I continue this post, I have to post a caveat for everyone who may read it - this is not intended to be moral passing of judgment on anyone who has been involved with a narc and their marital or his marital situation, so please don't open that can of worms again. Back to my point - I can't recall right now if you're married or not, but your ExN is. In my situation, the narc was single (divorced) and I was the married one. He pursued me (although I definitely had strong feelings for him prior to his pursuit). All of us who have been inovled with narcs when there has been a marriage or two in the mix have struggled with extremely complex emotions. From what I can see, usually the marriages are very unhappy for many different reasons. And having a relationship outside of the marriage can be justified for many different reasons. And they are most often legitimate. The problem with this is when one of the people in the mix has a PD. Because he has a PD, his intentions are not at all good, whether he's conscious of it or not. So while you may have had perfectly legitimate reasons for being with a married man, all with the best intentions, he did not feel the same way. His intentions were not legitimate. His intention was, and always will be, to use you. Becasue this is what narcs do. They use others as if they are appliances. It's part of the pathology. My suggestion to you, and it is one given without any sort of moral judgment associated at all because that would be like the pot calling the kettle black, is to step outside of the situation and ask yourself, "what kind of man pursues a woman while he is married without ever intending to make the hard changes necessary to the marriage to make the new relationship last?" And is this the kind of man who is right for you? I hope I've articulated this well enough. Bottom line, if he pursued you while he was married, but didn't do anything about his unhappy marriage, then most likely his intentions were not good and therefore, he is not good for you. You deserve better.
Dec 10 - 9AM (Reply to #12)
StillHurting
StillHurting's picture

Thanks, Morty

I appreciate your thoughts. I guess I just felt that there are people who marry the wrong person and then stay for the kids, and I respect that a lot. He was so resolve in the fact that he was staying only for that reason. A few other people told me that the couple is not like a husband and wife. I repeatedly asked if he could do anything so this could be in the open. I did not want him to abandon his children. He would say it was so bad with her, and now he says he does not recall it being that bad, and that really hurt. He just said this recently. It made me feel like the reason I broke one of my moral rules to be with him is because I cared for him and didn't want him to be hurting because this wife did not love and support him. So to hear him say he does not recall it being "that bad" really was so upsetting. Yes, I know he was wrong to be cheating all this time, and I would not want to be with a cheater and sneak. They have a much better life than I do for sure. I sat by and watched all the vacations and Christmases, and it was so painful. I just thought in the future it would be us, and now that future is just about here, or a few years away, and it is not going to be us. Now, not only do I not want it to be us because I realize all the issues, but he probably was not thinking it would be us. He still swears he will be leaving her when his youngest child is grown, and I doubt it very much. Anyway, the whole thing wasted a decade of my life, and now I don't even know who he is. I can't ask any questions or get any answers without him exploding, so there is no closure that way. I appreciate your input very much. Thank you for responding so honestly and thoughtfully.
Dec 10 - 9AM (Reply to #13)
anonymous
anonymous's picture

Hugs Still Hurting

I know. I understand. What is so difficult about this is that you were sold a bill of goods that you thought you understood but what happened turned out to be a bait and switch. The most difficult thing to get your head wrapped around is that the stuff he was saying about staying together with his wife for his children's sake was just stuff. He just said it because it sounded good. It's the perfect excuse in the world, right? What can you say back to him? No dear, I think you should forget about your kids and leave your wife to be with me? Then that makes you look like the selfish one. The important thing to understand is nothing he says makes any sense, even the stuff that seems logical or principled. NONE of it means anything because he's mouthing words he thinks sound good. I know this is hard to fathom, really I do. It's taken me 13 long months to fathom it. But I'm finally getting it. You're right, you don't know who he is because HE isn't anyone. Every interaction he has with every single person is a fake; a persona; an act to get what he wants at that moment in time. But at his core is a cold, calculating man with no empathy, no conscience and no real emotions other than self-pity, jealousy and hatred. And if you really think back to every interaction, every moment you had with the narc, and look at those memories with this lens on, you will start to realize in your gut that it's true. And it will make you sick but it will also be the path to you finally understanding it all and never letting something like this happen to you again.
Dec 9 - 9AM (Reply to #7)
really
really's picture

Education, etc

I did feel exactly as you did - I'm smart, college-educated, Master's degree, run my own business, successful, someone people look to for solutions, etc. All of it. It is somewhat of an embarrassment, actually, for me to have been so caught up in him. I have managed people for decades, been responsible for their personal and professional development, surely I should have seen what he was... But, that's the thing. I saw the mask he was wearing. I saw who he let me see. He said the same things yours did about living in the past, "I can't believe you take things so literally" when I would bring up something he said that contradicted his behavior, etc. For me, my education and experience played in it to a certain degree, too, and that has been the hardest thing to resolve. I thought, "who, if not me, would be able to deal with him and his issues?" I knew something was missing, I knew he was a jerk at times. He cast aside other people, yet I was still around. I thought there was something special about me. I had the skills to deal with him. What a joke! Later, I figured out that the only reason I was still in his life was because I didn't leave, not because he wanted me to stay. Add to that the fact that my friends, family, and some coworkers have seen my decision-making... No one will say it to my face, but I often wonder what they think of me for having put up with him. Do they now second-guess my professional opinions because of personal stupidity? I don't know.
Dec 9 - 10AM (Reply to #8)
StillHurting
StillHurting's picture

To Really

This sure is tough. I should have known better, but I am a romantic at heart. Sure, I knew it would be a while before he would leave his family, after kids are grown, etc. I chose to believe it all and wait. So that is on me. This is not what I was expecting the turnout to be. I know I was a good person to him and helped him a lot. I am not sure he has ever had a close person like me in his life, and it does not sound like he has this closeness with his wife, but I have no way to know for sure, but it is the impression I get. I kept saying how can he yell at me and hang up on me when I never did one bad thing to him. He has a short temper and a lot of rage. I guess if I am the one who gets all the attention, then I get all of it when it is negative and angry. This is why I started looking into personality disorders, etc. This just could not make sense any other way, and so it all the narc traits fit, except maybe one. So I still struggle with is he a narc, or am I just not of any interest anymore.
Dec 9 - 8AM
really
really's picture

Unless a person has been

Unless a person has been through an experience with a Narc, there is no way they can comprehend the magnitude of the pain. It's so much greater than with a 'normal' person. My friends tired of hearing about it while it was still going on, even my friend who told me she had a psychopath BF years before. I found that it wasn't even worth bringing it up because I would become disappointed in them for not being able to listen. I was pretty much alone in trying to digest all of this and make sense of it. I read and read and read. I cried and wailed until I felt raw inside. I still cannot comprehend that someone could behave this way toward another, but I can understand intellectually what happened and have learned a lot about what it is about me that allowed me to end up in that situation. It will not happen again. I am past the point of intense pain. I am past the point of being mad or really caring about him in any way. I will be sad about it forever. That I know I will carry with me. I want you to know that is DOES get better. And you WILL be OK eventually. It's taken over a year for me to get to this point. I have an occasional bad day (that's nearly always tied to PMS!). But, I am finally starting to feel like myself again and maybe even sort of a new, improved self that is wiser and more careful about who she let's into her life. Hugs, really
Dec 9 - 9AM (Reply to #2)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

yes

The pms really brings it on. I have been feeling horrible anxiety yesterday and today and when I woke up with a lower back ache it clicked no wonder I feel this way
Dec 9 - 9AM (Reply to #4)
StillHurting
StillHurting's picture

The PMS.....

makes everything worse, and I have been there. Weeping for days, and then once the period comes no more crying.
Dec 9 - 9AM (Reply to #3)
StillHurting
StillHurting's picture

The PMS.....

makes everything worse, and I have been there. Weeping for days, and then once the period comes no more crying.