Should you blame the Other girl?

85 posts / 0 new
Last post
Nov 17 - 5PM
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

TIMEOUT

I stopped reading this thread because I did not like the direction it was going. I see a lot of different legitimate gripes, angles and issues. Wives have a Hard-on for the OW's OW's feel slighted by the wives because they're ranting about OW's... And, it's getting tense. Can we all agree that regardless of what side we're on, we're victims? Can we be open minded enough to know that when a "wife" is calling an OW a slut, sleeze bag or whatever she's venting - it's not personal? I'm a OW... The bottom line here is our loyalty right now rests with eachother regardless of where on the fence we sit. Let's not take the venting so personally? My take - married or not cheating hurts, being lied to hurts, being betrayed hurts...and we've all been victims. Time out!
Nov 17 - 5PM (Reply to #51)
NancyM
NancyM's picture

Ditto

Ditto

Nevergoback

Nov 17 - 5PM (Reply to #54)
blueeyes
blueeyes's picture

Fault

Sits with the immoral person sometimes. We are all trying to survive the nastiest abuse together. I don't think any of us are dumb ass sleazes. I simply feel I would not be with a man who is in a relationship. This post was should she be mad at OW? If the OW knew (lied to or not), then sure she can be mad. Feelings are never wrong, their our feelings. I love everyone for struggling to survive an abusive narcissist.
Nov 17 - 5PM (Reply to #52)
better off
better off's picture

Bullshit. It is personal.

Bullshit. It is personal. Oh, well except for maybe... you and maybe another person or two. Of course there might be a few people who aren't underhanded and sleazy but of course, who knows, I mean, they should all have to crawl over broken glass (as if they haven't already)and tell their story with penitence to get the pass from those who are much too superior to have done such a thing. Now they can high-five each other some more. I have experienced enough verbal abuse in my life to know when to roll my eyes when someone says, oh, I didn't mean you of course....
Nov 17 - 5PM (Reply to #53)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Better Off

I am happy to hear you chime in here....if I may...and you've seen me at some of my less "stellar" moments...LMAO! What I think is happening here is we are all...and I'm gonna say it...FUCKING RAW! We are hurt, we are spent, we feel used...some are more advanced in the healing stage so for some, not so much so...but we've been traumatized, criticized, bastardized..whatever the Fuck... NOW...what's happening in my HUMBLE opinion is that the "Wives" are ranting their HURT about OW's and they need to do this, to feel better - they are hurting, they've been betrayed, they've been what some of us have been through as OW except, we as the OW's in some cases didn't have a piece of paper. Bottom line, piece of paper -that's all the fuck it is...it says you pay a different level of tax, you got in a white dress and said I love you in front of a hall of people...it don't make your man any more faithful or love you more. That is how we all are the COMMON DENOMINATOR we're women who have been duped. Married or not, DUPED. DUPED. DUPED...SAY IT WITH ME...WE'VE BEEN DUPED. Equally, we as other women are squirming in our seats, because it doesn't feel good to hear women that we believe we can trust or bond with venting such hostility, because we can identify with being the OW...it's emotions that are coloring this board... TEMPERANCE is what is needed here. Bottom line, shit happens. There is freedom of speech and there is freedom of expression what ties us together is pain. I think out of our common thread which is pain, we need to overlook some of the things we see and understand that it is a sister in pain that is talking - she's not judging us as individuals, she is in pain and needs to get it out. To me, that's all it is. When someone says: Michele is a sleezebag, what kind of woman...well then that's when we go toe to toe... As an OW, I understand what the wife is saying...I should have known better that is the truth I can't argue that. Fact is I didn't it wasn't intentional, I know what role I played and I made amends to his wife...my mind rests easy. One day I may be a wife - if it were to happen to me - I might be saying the same exact thing... So, I will not judge, nor feel condemned - you shouldn't either...at the end of the day, you know you...you are responsible for you and if anything - this is an exercise in learning how to discern the lies from the truth - in what we believe about ourselves. We are all worthy, beautiful, talented, dynamic women...in pain. It's pain. That's just my two cents.
Nov 17 - 7AM
MsVulcan500
MsVulcan500's picture

OW and Blame

My xh (not a quite a narc) left me for one of his employees, so this is a hot topic for me. Yes, she knew we were married, but that is all she knew. I blamed her for pursuing him, she knew he was married, had young children, etc. But really, later, when I was thinking clearer, I had no idea what he was telling her about our home life. I still blame her for her part in it all, but ultimately it was him who betrayed me. He was the one who had promised to love, honor and cherish me until the day he died. And he walked away. Now, knowing what I know, I would never get involved with anyone who I know is with someone else no matter what the story is. But I probably would have before I went through this. If a narc is out there gathering new supply, we all know how charming he is . . . If he's married to, living with, or even "exclusively" dating someone, he either outright lies that he is single, or tells tales of horror about her. He says whatever gets the job done. So blame the OW? There are instances where she is at fault and deserves some of the blame. And there are other times she is totally in the dark. But ultimately it is the narc who is betraying the bond between the two of you, not her. I feel the bulk of the blame lies with the narc. And remember, she will end up in the same mess you are in anyway.
Nov 17 - 6AM
Susan32
Susan32's picture

"You put me in an awkward position"

I was the one who found out I was the OW, in a sense- the ex-Psych professor ALREADY had a long-term, long-distance "serious" girlfriend in Los Angeles. When he could've spared ME a lot of pain by telling me he already had a girlfriend (he sprung her on me not long after one of my friends died, so it was calculating&malicious on his part), his response was a "You put me in an awkward position." I had spent ALL of my junior year asking him if he had a partner-male or female. I had just declared my love to him... precipitating the D&D. He reduced me to tears in public, raged at me. When I met the girlfriend at a concert, he bolted from the auditorium when she and I had a polite conversation. Then I calmly announced to his colleagues that I didn't know he already had a girlfriend- so much for Narcs having the last word. I said it so serenely and matter-of-factly, I didn't say it angrily or in tears, I wanted to make sure HE was humiliated. NOT me. After I met the girlfriend, I told the ex-P I was no longer in love with him-I was no longer interested in him because he was already taken, NOT because he was a teacher. He'd say "It shouldn't matter to you that I already have a girlfriend." He raged when I congratulated him on his engagement, so I stood there, smiling. It annoyed him so much he snapped "Stop smiling!!" But in a condescending, kindergarten-teacher like voice I told him I wanted him to find happiness with ANYONE. Then I bragged to my friends the next day how I made the ex-P throw an immature temper tantrum because I congratulated him on being engaged. I know how he HATED being ridiculed, and after how he treated me--it was HIS time to be MY victim now.
Nov 17 - 5AM
jaycee
jaycee's picture

If they know and continue to pursue, absolutely

If the ow knows the man is married or in a committed relationship from the get go, absolutely, its disgusting sleazy behavior. to hurt another woman is just plain and simply cruel. In my case, the ow knew from the get go that my husband was a married man, she met him at the gym and pursued him, as well as, he pursued her. they continued a sleazy affair, her blowing him in the tanning rooms at the gym, and of course, everyone there knowing, leaving work at lunch to screw him at her apt, and him sneaking over there while he was pretending to be at the grocery store, or wherever, this behavior continued for two years or so, she became so desperate to have him, she called me, she followed me into stores, laughing in my face, as if to say, yep, im fucking your husband, and he will be mine. finally, the end came, when first i realized she had bought him and was paying for a secret cell phone, and the kicker came when she left him a package in our mailbox, that was to let me know they were still screwing each other. she finally won, i couldnt do it anymore, so i packed all of his things in garbage bags, how befitting, and dumped them on her apt doorstep. funny thing is, i think she really believed she was the only one, as he had three throughout their nasty affair. my point, yes, there are situations when the ow has no idea, and then you may say, oh, poor thing didnt know, but in my case and in the case of any ow who knows, they certainly are not victims, and yes, you can blame them as well. it takes two to tango as they say. Jaycee

Jaycee

Nov 17 - 2PM (Reply to #45)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

Amen, Jaycee and MsVulcan

We're talking about two different types of OW here, I guess. One is in the dark, God knows what the Narc has told her, and the other (I think much more rare) is still in junior high and if she gloats about getting the Narc away from you, her time will come. Both types of OW end up exactly the same, though. We have both types of OW here on this board. If you KNOW your Narc is married, or in a committed relationship and you still screw him, there's something wrong with that. Are you a bad person? To his wife/girlfriend, you are. To me (and the rest of us here), it's more like YOU see yourself as worthless, and it's very sad and degrading.
Nov 17 - 7PM (Reply to #47)
MsVulcan500
MsVulcan500's picture

My Point

My point was that whether the OW knows or not, we have no idea what the N is telling her. When I had a chance to talk to the OW, I told her there was only one person who knew the whole truth, and he wasn't talking. He told her one version of the story, and he told me another. And as I said, it is the narc who is ultimately to blame because he is the one out there searching for new supply. And NOW, knowing what I know, if a man tells me he is getting divorced, breaking up, whatever, I will run, not walk away from him. But I can't say I would have before. I probably would have believed him too. They can be so damned charming!
Nov 17 - 2PM (Reply to #46)
blueeyes
blueeyes's picture

Well put B...

That is all I was trying to say last night ladies... XOXOX
Nov 16 - 11PM
NancyM
NancyM's picture

Gotta comment

Geez when did we slip off the path here?? We all talk about how clever the Narcs are at sucking us in, but when he does it to OW it is different??? My N was in a relationship when he came after me, and I kept saying no to him I was not interested and would NEVER do THAT to another person. WELL he just kept coming. Did I pursue HIM??? No, but that just made me a bigger challenge. Yeah he got me in the end, and the comment about being stupid, and thinking I was different is exactly right. BUT, how many of you can truthfully say the Narc did not have someone else on the go when he hit you??? It is my experience with a lot of them, their feet never touch the ground. Of course it is normal to feel angst at the OW. My xNs ex had taken him away from her best friend...his wife, and so the cycle continued. So did I get what I deserved??? Anybody???

Nevergoback

Nov 17 - 5PM (Reply to #43)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

NOPE Nancy M

In my case I remember emailing the Narc travel deals to go on a B&B trip with his wife!!! I was just trying to be a friend... Told him go to counseling with her!!! Don't know how or when the tables actually turned... Even up until the very end. So the Narcs can be very convincing... Just like we fell for their bullshit, I don't know why we assume the other woman is immune... In Jaycee's case, the woman was bitchy - but in many cases, these things happen and it isn't intentional...the Narcs come with GOOD STORIES/LIES...
Nov 17 - 4PM (Reply to #42)
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

I agree

I have had the advantage of meeting the woman who replaced me. Also, I met his first wife (who was replaced by the woman who preceded me--don't know her). The lies that this man told the woman who replaced me! And, when I showed her my e-mails from him seeking reconciliation with me when he was living with her! I think she was very hurt. And, the lies he told me about the women who replaced his first ex-wife (me=2nd ex-wife). Because I learned from his first wife how their marriage actually ended. My N lied about the whole thing. Me. I think that I may have moved in on the woman who preceded me. Now I realize that they were "taking a break" while she went abroad. Thinking about the future together. He told me they were finished. I saw all these boxes packed & in storage. An empty room & closets. We were married within 6 months. When she returned, the day after I married him. She was wild. I saw her burst out of the apartment fit to be tied as I came up the street & she jumped into a car that took off. She removed everything from the apartment. (He had told me that he was storing her possessions because they had parted as friends [to whom he never mentioned his impending nuptials].) I realized some time down the line. SHe was on the back burner. If I didn't work out . . . he'd take up with her when she returned. But, you see, I had money to help him buy a house, she did not. SO I was the victim who married him & she luckily escaped. They juggle women shamelessly. Lie & manipulate. The bottom line is they settle for whomever is most useful. Resenting the other women is blaming another victim for the N's bad behavior. Forget her. She's either a victim or she deserves what she gets. But, really, stop caring about him or her. It should be about yourself & forgetting him & being grateful you escaped.
Nov 17 - 2AM (Reply to #35)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

I totally see your point,

I totally see your point, Nancy. Many OW are not aware of the relationship going on. I agree that most women would not participate in junior high school boyfriend snatching. It's degrading, you'd have to have very low self esteem to find this "OK". When I read the original post, I wanted to make a strong point about placing the onus where it belongs, and to some extent, a bit does belong to the OW unless she is in the dark. If she is aware of the relationship and continues to pursue . . . that's some sleazy behavior. That is screaming some SERIOUS low self esteem, degrading herself. I haven't done actual research :P but just knowing folks who've had these experiences, most are in the dark due to the Narc's machinations. I got the impression from the OP that the OW was fully aware of THEIR relationship. I don't really know though, the OP would have to come in and clarify that. Not that it makes a huge difference, anyway. The OW will be as victimized as the original(s).
Nov 17 - 3AM (Reply to #36)
NancyM
NancyM's picture

OW

Sorry, just had to jump in on this thread, because there are a lot of women here that started out as the OW and I don't want to dismiss any of them. They all have a right to be here.

Nevergoback

Nov 17 - 2PM (Reply to #37)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

Agreed NancyM

They need to be here. I don't want to dismiss them either, in my view they are equally as victimized and damaged. I won't dismiss the wrongness of an OW knowing full well about the preexisting relationship. I do sort of "sit in judgment" on this, but not from a MORAL perspective. This OW is a unique and valuable human being too, just like the rest of us. She is not some other "creature" or less than human. If anything, she values herself even LESS, if that's possible. She debases herself pursuing a married/committed Narc. It is SAD, not disgusting. If she had greater self value, she would not do what she does. So she especially needs to be here.
Nov 17 - 5PM (Reply to #38)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

I'd like to air some dirty laundry...

It's no secret I was an OW...BUT, not all OW start out thinking they are going to be OW's... Sometimes they think it's a platonic friendship when in fact, the NARC targets her. If we all preach that NARCS target...why do we all assume the OW is going after the NARC? In my case, I wasn't looking for a relationship - I tried to help him with getting to NA meetings, Weekends away with HER, counseling... My biggest flaw was not realizing, it wasn't my job to resuce. I think a lot of OW's get that "nurture" bug when the Narc starts to play the "victim" and that is how that goes a lot of the time. I know a lot of women don't want to snag a married man...but sometimes it happens without intention and then you get caught up. I believed in Karma, and now I'm living it - but I do my best to put on my big girl pants and take my medicine and just make it a point to move on. Sometimes there are exceptions to the rule. I'd like to think I saved the potential OW in my breakup from suffering, even though I knew she knew he was with someone - I overlooked that and just told her what I knew...the word Sociopath was used in the conversation...from what I gather, she did find someone else...
Nov 18 - 5AM (Reply to #41)
Godhasaplanforme
Godhasaplanforme's picture

So true, the other girl in

So true, the other girl in my case was a platonic friend. However, she didnt know that she was slowly being reeled in.
Nov 17 - 7PM (Reply to #40)
MsVulcan500
MsVulcan500's picture

Very true, Michele,

It's amazing the ways they worm their way in, huh. I think this is where the education we are all now getting is going to help us avoid this in the future.
Nov 17 - 5PM (Reply to #39)
NancyM
NancyM's picture

Michele

Thanks for jumping in here, what you have said, I could have said myself. This OW issue is already taking its toll, but at least we have the balls to admit where we went wrong and have certainly learned our lessons associated with it. That is something the Narc will never do. After finding out just what a complete and utter deviant I was living with, I think I saved her from one hell of a fate.

Nevergoback

Nov 17 - 12AM (Reply to #34)
Ava
Ava's picture

No way NancyM

No way in hell did you get what you deserved. You're right that with most of them their feet never touch the ground - mine N certainly never did. I was the OW, he pursued me, I fell for all his shit. Then he cheated on me with a 20 year old & I so wanted to hate her but finally I realised that I knew inside she was just as blind, and fooled, and with stars in her eyes as I was. You are so utterly right - different rules shouldnt apply when it comes to the OW. Ava x

Ava

Nov 16 - 11PM (Reply to #28)
blueeyes
blueeyes's picture

NancyM

I don't think you got what you deserved. No way! I'm agreeing that ultimately it is the N's fault as I said in a previous post. I'm saying she was dumb because when we now see a red flag like a bad relationship, we would back off now. Nothing personal about dumb comment. I was trying to say she is naïve about red flags.
Nov 16 - 11PM (Reply to #29)
NancyM
NancyM's picture

blueeyes

I see what your saying, but I think we really do need to cut some slack to the OW, because it is the Narcs that pick their victims, not the other way around. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, but it is still hindsight. It is kind of like blaming the deer for running into the mouth of a lion. Yup it should have known there was something wrong with the picture, but kinda ignored the teeth.

Nevergoback

Nov 17 - 12AM (Reply to #30)
blueeyes
blueeyes's picture

NancyM

True. I agree. I was trying to use an analogy for the poster to understand that it's her being naïve. Dumb ass was not meant for anyonehere personally. :( I'm sorry.
Nov 17 - 12AM (Reply to #33)
blueeyes
blueeyes's picture

ow slack

Yes, ow should get some slack if she didn't know he was in a relationship. Even if he cries that he is unhappy. A man that is taken, happy or not is not fair game. This is just my practice.
Nov 17 - 12AM (Reply to #31)
NancyM
NancyM's picture

blueeyes

Like all Narcs, my narc was very clever and profiled me for a long time before he hit. When it all finally happened, the entire blame fell on me, and Narc even used that against me. Didn't I prove that I had done something morally wrong? Well yes, so I wore it. When i look back now and see what was really there as in regard to what I thought was there, I am totally horrified at the rose colored glasses I wore. Incidentally his ex became the OW during our relationship, and 6 years on she is still wanting him back. I am the first to outright reject him and I think he is finding that a bit tough, even though he was forever D&D ing me. But it's ok, I know you were not meaning to be personal.;)

Nevergoback

Nov 17 - 12AM (Reply to #32)
blueeyes
blueeyes's picture

Nancy M

Yes, in your case there is always a few stories and how the end looked for you was not favorable. I don't think you were dumb. You were manipulated. Thanks for understanding. XO
Nov 16 - 11PM
Ava
Ava's picture

Hiya Godhasaplanforme

Just a thought - are you absolutely sure that she knew you were dating? I ask because months after the relationship with my exN I found out that I'd been the "other woman" for almost the first full year of our relationship. He'd moved to my city from another state, we met at work, got together & were living together within a couple of months. All the while he was having a long-distance relationship with his girlfriend in his home state [they'd been together for about a year and a half before he met me]. He told me they'd broken up & I truly believed him. He was living with me, I never heard him talk to her or any of his friends refer to her. The whole time she thought they were still together, he told her she was living on his own & that he was just staying in the city for work & he'd visit her every couple of months [always told me he was visiting family]. He spun me a web of stories & I fell for them all. Is it at all possible that this other girl didn't know or he had told her & convinced her you'd already broken up & were just friends etc? Either way, I agree Briseis that its the N who has done the most wrong here & who deserves the lions share of your anger. And if the OW was fully aware, then the saying 'you will lose a man the same way you got him' applies.... Ava xx

Ava

Nov 18 - 5AM (Reply to #26)
Godhasaplanforme
Godhasaplanforme's picture

Now that I think about it.

Now that I think about it. She might not have known. He would hide all his lovey dovey comments from my FB as soon as I added her on my list. He would say horrible things about her so I would not befriend her. He told me not to visit him unannounced so that she didnt see us hanging out. theres so much more, and I'd rather not visit it all unless it just enters my mind on its own. I end up hitting my head on the wall for being such a fool everytime I revisit the past. Its like I knew it all, yet I didnt know nothing