It is NOT about HIM...

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#1 Jul 25 - 2PM
BlueMoon
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It is NOT about HIM...

I believe that is the point of this board, whether it is discernable that the guy is a narcissist or not...if he is not meeting your needs and is making you miserable, then he is not for you...period.

I believe it is so important to take the focus off of what HE is feeling, thinking, meant, said, will do, did do, etc.

Instead the important thing is to focus on OURSELVES...galvanize value within ourselves, importance placed upon OUR lives...

A healthy man is a man who is attracted to confidence, boundaries, a woman who can protect herself.

Once a woman has those skills, the losers automatically drop out of the race because they know that you are impervious.

It is a win-win situation for all...

Jul 29 - 5AM
awayfromhim
awayfromhim's picture

I've been reading all the

I've been reading all the posts below along with the others on the board relating to the "type" of person that gets involved with a narcissist. To me, really, this discussion is so moot to the point of what needs to be done to recover. Anyone, and I mean anyone, can get sucked in my a narcissist. I don't care how much education one has, financial status, age, weak or strong, confidence or lack thereof. I was with mine for 30 years. Does that label me a weak person? Does that label me someone who lacked intelligence? Am I abnormal? Lacking strength? No on all accounts. To me, it really doesn't matter who I WAS before or during my time with the N. What matters to me is who I will become. I am consistently seeing this back and forth and discussions about the N, along with, in this case, the type of person who gets sucked in by one. Everyone has issues or baggage, whatever you want to call it, and nobody either being with an N or not, has the capability to be completely without issues/baggage as a human being. It is what one does with the realization of those issues that is important to recovery. In my case the guy was physically and emotionally abusive. In a nutshell, the guy is one nasty narcissist. I was scared shitless, and made the heart-wrenching fearful decision to leave him. It is done. I don't give a rat's ass about the "type" of person I may be considered to some. What I do care about is doing what I have to do to take care of myself, get out of the problem and into the solution.
Jul 29 - 3PM (Reply to #68)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

I think it is natural to

I think it is natural to seek out all the "whys" and "wherefor". We want to understand ourselves and why we did what we did. The goal of this "wondering" is to prevent it from happening again. We go through the exact same kind of thinking with any mistake we make. The conclusions we come to CANNOT be made in to Gospels. Each person finds a unique solution, and has no business telling anyone else that they must come to that same conclusion about themselves. It's an identical process we all go through, but the results are as unique as each human being is unique. The milestones we reach are the same milestones but they occur at different times and manifest in different ways for each person on the journey :) "One size fits all" is pretty damn stupid, IMHO. And destructive. And controlling. The previous moderator had issues with imposing the "one size fits all", and I've seen it on other support forums too. People who need the support like they need water and sunshine are cast aside and re-abused. What we were before the advent of the Narc is not near as important as what we become afterward, just like Awayfromhim says. It is useful information, and ours to figure out, ours to own. I think sometimes people are uncomfortable with what they find when they take a long look at themselves and when they see it in others, they want to squash it like a bug. Like THAT will make their own discomfort go away, yikes!! We each have an amazing, unique story :) We ought to share them like stories told around a campfire, not like some kind of stone tablet come off the mountain.
Jul 30 - 7AM (Reply to #69)
KB2
KB2's picture

Briseis

"We each have an amazing, unique story :) We ought to share them like stories told around a campfire, not like some kind of stone tablet come off the mountain." Your post above is so well put, it deserves a thread of it's own. I really hope this board can take things forward to the next level and become a sanctuary of safety for many out there who are seeking support from narcissistic abuse. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The deeper that sadness carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Kahlil Gibran "That which we do not confront in ourselves we meet as fate" ~ Carl Jung http://www.storyofmylife.com/KLARITY4 (KB2 temporary account)
Jul 29 - 11AM (Reply to #65)
ShaynasMommy
ShaynasMommy's picture

away from him

I agree with you. There isn't a specific "type." Anyone can be targeted, depending on the whim of the N at the time. This is what they do. They are always scanning for supply, we already know this. When they do find it, they "compartmentalize" (emphasis on MENTAL) or categorize it. (I realize its rude to refer to folks as "it" but that's only to make it clear that people are only objects and sources, not human beings to a Narc). One supply source may be temporary, because they only have a limited amount, or only a specific thing that once is extracted, that target is no longer needed, then discarded. Another may have many, many things that a N needs to be King of the world, and he will stay with them for years, even decades to maintain that status. So, in short, everyone has something for a Narc. (Awww, isn't that special). It just depends on who is the most available and convenient for them at the time. They are people collectors, like stamp collectors. They will organize their collection by specs and qualities. Some of us are just shallow, temporary needs to them, like sex, food, money, shelter, a date they can take to a wedding so they don't seem so pathetic while they are scoping other supply, etc. Then there are those of us who are much more. We are found to be so valuable, so chock-full of bountiful supply that we possibly become their mates and wives, and years of hell ensue. If you fell into the first category, then I do feel for you, being used hurts, and it sucks. But if, like myself, you fell into the second category, then I really feel for you. Rest assured that you will always be seen in the back of their minds as potential supply even when you have been NC for a very long time. Narcs always think they have the right to own you from day one. It would not be so far-fetched to believe that one day, if the cards fell just right (or, horribly wrong, depending on how you look at it)and my ex-N lost everything he worked so hard to con others for, that he might just search me out and try to hoover me in some fashion. Because I WAS the long term dependable supply that he lost. Yes, it would have to be a desperate situation for him, but we all need to realize just how dangerous these guys are when they are desperate. They are capable of doing anything if pushed far enough. This has ended up being a longer post than I intended, but my main point is that anybody can and will be targeted. Nobody holds a "special" place in an Narc's cold, artificial heart (we all know they were replaced sometime in early childhood). Sorry for yelling but, THEY DO NOT CHANGE! This is something that our newbie survivor sisters need to get once and for all. It needs to percolate into their minds, marinate, and integrate so that it becomes as common sense and common knowledge, like "never put your hand on a hot stove, duh." I just want everyone here to know that I have the utmost compassion because I am too, a survivor. But if I say something that sounds harsh, its only because I am just passionate about things like self respect, NC, and maintaining a sense of shock and disgust about who N's are and what they do on a minute by minute basis, every damn day of their entire lives. That is the only way to stay out of crazyville.
Jul 29 - 12PM (Reply to #66)
Used
Used's picture

shanysmommy

i agree with you, although my exh, is with someone and i no longer see him, i still get birthday cards and xmas cards from him, and the other day i was thinking ,just what you have posted, i even told a friend and she said no it wont happen, if he goes belly up, he would ,i believe test the water, after all we were married over 30years,and as the song goes i know him so well.but he will be sorely dissapointed, the longer i dont see him the more clarity i get, i ask my self, why did i put up with it? well i did, and i cant change the past, he is history and will continue you to be, even though we have kids[adults] together,that makes no diffrence to me at all.
Jul 29 - 3PM (Reply to #67)
ShaynasMommy
ShaynasMommy's picture

I'm very sorry to hear he still bothers....

It sucks that he can just send you greeting cards like nothing ever happened. They are just so SICK! It took me moving to another state after a giving NC a go for over a year, just to get to the point where he would have absolutely no way of contacting me. Which he still tried to do up until the day I moved. I left no forward address or phone #. But ya know, if it came down to it one day that he needed something from me, and couldnt get it from someone else (doubtful) its very easy to find anyone online if you really want to ....
Jul 29 - 11AM (Reply to #62)
Aliveagain
Aliveagain's picture

LOVE IT. Agreed. You know

LOVE IT. Agreed. You know what made me feel like I OUGHT to be delving into all this shit? My "mate". I said to her on an occasion "You know, the reason he came after me is because I am strong, not weak, because I am a challenge" (I was, I am). She retorted "Hate to break it to you but I've never considered you strong, he went for you because you are easy prey". One word - B*tch. She then told me I had to "develop my confidence, real, inner confidence not just the way I 'span it'". WTF?! I had real, inner confidence, I didn't 'spin' anything. I was v v comfortable with myself. PRIOR to him. And she hadn't seen me in 10 years. So what, she's making reference to a time and place when I was a teenager?!!!
Jul 29 - 12PM (Reply to #64)
Used
Used's picture

aliveagain

oh dear that greeneyed monster rears its ugly head again, ive had this crap, but i turned into a joke, i said to her,oh bless you could of had him, no problem, he is anybodys so you will be well in, must admit she told me to go f;;k myself, isaid you are better off telling him to do that,lol, but on a serious note, one day out of the blue i thought ,she,s been with him, cos in away she came over like a woman dumped. we havent sooken since, well i havent, she,s tried.
Jul 29 - 12PM (Reply to #63)
ShaynasMommy
ShaynasMommy's picture

sounds like she was just jealous...

....of all the "attention" you recieved from the N. Boy, if she ONLY knew!
Jul 27 - 2PM
naivenomore
naivenomore's picture

What a Relief

to hear these new comments being added as they adhere to exactly what I was trying to say in my post of Sun, 07/25/2010 - 16:48. Thank you to all of the contributors who understand that us newbies are still going to make a few mistakes until we get our growl back.
Jul 29 - 11AM (Reply to #60)
wholeagain
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Chickadee

What a great tag line for this board: Get your growl backâ„¢ LOL :)
Jul 28 - 12PM (Reply to #59)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

until we get our growl back

LOL. I love this. Keep participating on this forum, and practising the tools, and you will get your growl back! You'll growl like you never did before too :D and it might take some getting used to. I went through some stages in my own healing where I was pretty horrified at the vacillation of newbies, before they had their growl on. The truth was, I was pretty horrified with MYSELF and didn't want to "remember" how I vacillated, like, for years. It was so painful, and I didn't want to be reminded of that pain. How weak and helpless I felt. It scared me :( I never want to go back there again, and when I saw newbies vacillating, it made me afraid I would go back there, could go back to that hopeless place again, at any time :( I know better now . . . I know I won't go back there, I've changed too much. I have plenty of shortcomings otherwise, believe me. But that's not one of them. It's the promise that if you keep your eye on the goal, use the tools you're learning here, you WILL stop vacillating between strong and weak. It takes time and work. The only difference between me and a vacillating newbie is time and work. Not strength or intelligence or being "special". It is time and work, period.
Jul 26 - 4PM
hitandrun
hitandrun's picture

Agree and Disagree

I agree with you 100% that as soon as someone is able to get through to the point they can focus on themselves instead of the disordered personality, then the path to healing can accelerate. However, I disagree with this comment: "A healthy man is a man who is attracted to confidence, boundaries, a woman who can protect herself. Once a woman has those skills, the losers automatically drop out of the race because they know that you are impervious." In my opinion, and that of some professionals, this is the type of woman "loser" narcissists/sociopaths/psychopaths target. Prey for them is not usually the weaklings...they need that strength as supply.
Jul 28 - 3PM (Reply to #57)
Steph
Steph's picture

totally agree with what you

totally agree with what you wrote, hitandtrun
Jul 27 - 1PM (Reply to #56)
Amy
Amy's picture

I agree

Mine told me, after we got engaged, that I needed to be knocked down a few pegs. WTH did THAT mean? The devaluing started immediately. I had become much more independent and stood up for myself more in the year that we were apart. He began trying to knock me down immediately. I didn't fall for it, and when we got in the big last fight, I told him I didn't deserve to be treated that way. He disappeared after that. I think he finally had enough - he couldn't break me down like he did before. It was 3 months of hell. I am glad I stood up for myself! And I know if I had been weak, he would not have been nearly as interested!
Jul 27 - 1PM (Reply to #53)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

In the short film "I,

In the short film "I, Psychopath" Robert Hare talks about how psychopaths can see a "victim" by the way they walk. They shot four or five people, one a victim of rape, walking down a long corridor. The psychopath(s) were told to pick out who they thought was a victim. They picked out one of the women and they were right!! She walked disjointedly, her legs and arms did not fall into synchronous rhythm as she strolled. That was the only thing *I* could see. Believe me, I march out to my car afterwork like a damn robot now LOL!! I think it was Klarity Bell who said that most Ns are "lazy" and prefer victims with whom they can conquer fairly easity. A strong, confident and capable woman can still have a glitch that causes her to stick around for "more" until she is reduced by the Narc. What is it about that woman that causes her to stick around past the first red flag? It's NOT her intelligence, educational level, inherent knowledge about abuse. It is her conditioning (probably, this is my best guess). She is still somehow vulnerable. My exN was not attracted to woman-losers at all. He used them for sex and attention, but what he wanted as primary supply was someone that made him look good. I do believe the Narc-losers drop out of the race when they know you are impervious. And it ain't so much that THEY know you are impervious. It's that YOU know you are. I think Narcs throw shit to see who it sticks too. And they approach the sticky women and feel them out. They drop out of the race because they are more interested in the sticky women, NOT because they are scared off by our Teflon lol. We just won't register on their infernal radar!
Jul 27 - 9PM (Reply to #54)
almostlydia
almostlydia's picture

The fact is that even

The fact is that even strong, confident women have vulnerable times in their lives that make them more easily victimized. I had been struggling for many years to end a long marriage due to years of neglect. I was a prime target and he got me. However, this is why he had a bitch of time with me tho thru it all. This was a moment of vulnerability, not a lifetime habit of it.

almostlydia

Jul 29 - 4PM (Reply to #55)
better off
better off's picture

Similar situation here... he

Similar situation here... he got me at a low point because of abuse and neglect from someone else. I also believe in the "stickiness" thing, because looking back I see now that he was casting about all the time, and with me it happened to "stick" due to a lot of different circumstances. But if it hadn't been me, he would have kept seeking until he found someone. Oh wait, he kept seeking anyway! lol He fooled a rather large number of people, not just me, so I eventually was able to overcome the feeling that I must have been stupid to fall for his stuff. How was I to know he was lying? It's not normal to lie about loving someone.
Jul 27 - 1PM (Reply to #26)
Aliveagain
Aliveagain's picture

Me too

I was just about to say the same thing. I WAS a woman with great confidence, good boundaries and had a sharp tongue and put my ExNP in his place on many occasions when we FIRST met. Over time he wore me down and grinded me into some strange format of myself I now barely recognise - nor do my family. The weak are easy prey, the strong are a challenge, the harder the challenge the more exciting and intoxicating the entire thing...especially in a sexual sense.
Jul 27 - 1PM (Reply to #27)
BlueMoon
BlueMoon's picture

strength...

I understand what you are saying, but to allow someone into our lives who we constantly have to "put in their place" is not a sign of strength per se, nor is it taking care of ourselves.
Jul 28 - 3PM (Reply to #52)
Steph
Steph's picture

not a sign of strength for

not a sign of strength for sure.....but I don't think it' a weakness either. I think it's more a consequence of being exposed to manipulation by a manipulative expert. i know for me, i would stick up for myself....but then he would manipulate me into thinking I was overreacting or wrong or whatever. I would believe I was the problem, not him. I didn't think I was "putting up with anything", I thought I had to change my expectations. Brainwashed. Happens to the best of us, but definately not a sign of weakness or lack of self respect.
Jul 28 - 1PM (Reply to #41)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

I agree with you BlueMoon

To keep around a person we have to constantly put in their place is not a sign of strength. It is a sign of control and contempt for them. It is a sign we do not value ourselves enough to have a true partner that is "equal" to us. I acted this one out, big time. I had contempt for my NPD father from a very early age. I picked out so-called "strong" NPD men that I could reinact that "contempt" with. I idolized and worshipped them at first, and then gradually woke up to their severely damaged self beneath. Instead of running the other way, I STAYED TO FIX THEM. It felt like Old Home Week to be with a man that behaved like a four year old throwing a temper tantrum. I got to feel a little bit superior to him, along with crushing depression, despair and self loathing. THere is nothing wrong with having something wrong with you. It is inescapable! Having a "glitch" in ourselves does not make our Narcs right after all! I think it is almost always low self esteem. Not being "bad" or "stupid". Just having a low self image. Fear that we don't deserve or can't get any "better". "Normal" women would run screaming from our Narcs. If not right off the bat, in less time than we spent with them.
Jul 28 - 6PM (Reply to #51)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Babysitting

I "stayed to fix him" as well. My ex-Psychopath professor was 15 years my senior... and I thought that good Christian love and plenty of prayer would make him spouse material and convert him like Paul. I thought of myself in the missionary spirit, that I'd convert him like Patrick converted the Irish. I was wrong. He was a 30 year old, yet he acted like a 3 year old if he didn't get his way. After the D&D (and meeting his fiancee, whom I didn't know existed), I would calmly tell him how NORMAL ADULTS act. What was I doing, teaching a nearly middle-aged guy about human behavior and feelings? I'd tell him "a normal man would mention he already has a girlfriend",and the like. Explaining human emotions to an adult. The D&D was devastating;there was the despair and depression. But I'm thankful I never dated nor married him, let alone had his babies! He was such a child himself (and NOT in a good way) Whenever I was with him, I felt like I was babysitting. Anything I said or did could set him off. Nothing could please him. And the immature game-playing. What's odd is that my experience with the ex-P was good preparation for working with an autistic student. There was the same self-absorption, obsessiveness, difficulties communicating and registering feelings. Very odd.
Jul 28 - 5PM (Reply to #42)
BlueMoon
BlueMoon's picture

Yes, Briseis...

I too had an NPD father- crazy on wheels! My pattern was to find NPD-like men (whether they were truly NPD who knows) and reenact my feelings about my father- same pattern...and I always felt good when I could level them to the ground with machinations that I knew so well...the ego of an NPD is so fragile that they crumble easily...initially... Then the game really begins and it comes back to bite you on the ass. I like your statement, below: "THere is nothing wrong with having something wrong with you. It is inescapable! Having a "glitch" in ourselves does not make our Narcs right after all! I think it is almost always low self esteem. Not being "bad" or "stupid". Just having a low self image. Fear that we don't deserve or can't get any "better". "Normal" women would run screaming from our Narcs. If not right off the bat, in less time than we spent with them." We are all broken or damaged in some way, and as long as we know how and work with it, things are cool.
Jul 28 - 6PM (Reply to #43)
Steph
Steph's picture

""Normal" women would run

""Normal" women would run screaming from our Narcs. If not right off the bat, in less time than we spent with them."" I don't agree with this. Many "normal" women have been duped and brainwashed by these guys. It's the slow boil analogy. You place a frog in cold water and slowly turn up the heat. The frog doesn't know he's about to be boiled until it's too late. An abuser doesn't present himself that way right off the bat. They slowly condition us to get "used" to the abuse. The only abnormal one is him.
Jul 28 - 8PM (Reply to #49)
almostlydia
almostlydia's picture

stayingstrong78

I agree completely, that is complete bullsh*t about any normal woman would run. This is definitely a lack of 'getting it'. Sorry but this line of thinking is really pissing me off now. If a PHD trained in this for 30 yrs is duped by these people what does that tell you of the power they have? I watched a whole lot of 'normal' upstanding people completely duped by mine. They go after anyone they can get that's just the fact, anybody they can play with, tease, manipulate, fool, and USE. I don't know of anyone normal who doesn't have vulnerable times in their life. I'll say it again, we all have weaknesses of some kind. We wouldn't be human without them. They have practiced their entire life pinpointing exactly what they are and abuse the hell out of us by using them. It is their expertise. Enough already.

almostlydia

Jul 28 - 8PM (Reply to #50)
hitandrun
hitandrun's picture

Amen Sisters!

almostlydia and staying strong78: I'm in your congregation...glad y'all get it,too. 'Nough said(for now).
Jul 28 - 6PM (Reply to #44)
BlueMoon
BlueMoon's picture

semantics

I understand all of the points being made here about the definitions of strong v. weak, normal v. abnormal, etc. I wish I were articulate enough to parcel my sentiments down to the bone. Please forgive me if I do not explain adequately. If many "normal" women have been lured into abusive relationships, then that to me suggests that there is no hope...that such a trap is inevitable... I do not think so. In hearing all of the comments, I see that each experience of course is unique. However, there must be warning signs in the beginning of any abusive situation that reveal themselves. There must be something that people of all derivations miss, allow, excuse, etc. ...a common thread. Does this make sense? To me it is not about blame, but about self-protection- especially in the face of learning new skills that were not taught to us as children. This is not about qualifying descriptive adjectives- everyone has their own unique composition.
Jul 28 - 7PM (Reply to #45)
Steph
Steph's picture

Many normal women do get

Many normal women do get lured into abusive relationships. And that does not imply there is no hope. It implies there needs to be more education and awareness on the subject. Yes, there is definately warning signs....unfortuneately we have learned what they are AFTER the relationship has ended. I think there needs to be so much more education on abuse. The EARLY warning signs to be aware etc. before it's too late. These guys are masters of their game and have fooled many....even Robert Hare, author of "Without Conscience" has admitted to be being fooled by them. And I'm sure it isn't because he is not normal.
Jul 28 - 7PM (Reply to #46)
hitandrun
hitandrun's picture

staystrong78 and Blue Moon

Many of us here have really done the research on the pathologicals and were shocked that it could happen to us. Not sure how much research and reading you have done, Blue Moon. There is one book we do not mention anymore that is very insightful. I have researched, read, asked professionals all in an attempt to understand the un-understandable. Even my therapist(who I went to after this experience) said the psychological community is not equipped to deal with these pathological personalities. So you think we are? I accept my responsibility in the matter. Should have kicked his a$$ to the curb. But he was so convincing and I was hooked. That does not make me a victim, or co-dependent, or "weak". It makes me brainwashed, hypnotized, manipulated, hormonally manipulated, and profiled (you think I am exaggerating?) But don't put labels on folks if you have not really done the research. Maybe you have researched it ad nauseum, who knows? You've been a member of this forum much longer than I. The attitude that it was "all my fault" is what keeps women involved with these freaks in the first place. I am not attacking you, Blue Moon. Just trying to help other folks not to label themselves from things they've read in pop-psychology, Co-dependent Literature, or some other "genre" for lack of a better word. This experience does not fit inside that nice little box. It would be great if it did, then we would have a modicum of control and a set criteria for treatment. This is not semantics. This is being informed. You are entitled to your opinion.