Narcissist's Cycle

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#1 Apr 30 - 4AM
Klarity Belle
Klarity Belle's picture

Narcissist's Cycle

My ex N who I co-parent with definitely has a cycle which follows the same pattern each revolution. Each cycle has 6 different stages:-

Breakdown/transition to upturn cycle
1st quarter upturn
2nd quarter upturn
transition to downturn cycle
1st quarter downturn
2nd quarter downturn

The duration of each stage and the length of the whole cycle itself depends upon the variables involved but his cycles are around 5 years long. Because we share children, I am connected to these cycles though not by choice, this will be my third revolution but I do not intend for me or my children to go around a fourth time. I have included ‘upsides’ as part of the 1st half of the cycle because when you are forced to live this Npd misery then there has to be areas to work to your advantage or life just wouldn’t be worth living at all. The best hope is to get away from the Npd all together and for co-parents this is the hardest thing to do because of court orders etc.

When I first met my ex N at the end of 1996 he was in transition from breakdown into upturn. I wasn’t even that easy to hook but he pulled out all the stops to reel me in – it was his big family that won me over, the same family he disconnected me from a few years later.

Ex N is currently entering the final downturn of his cycle, this is when he is at his worst. He hit his halfway mark of his cycle around a year and a half ago now (ever since his last D was born - babies are downturn triggers for him). I give it another 6 months to 1 year before he has another narcissistic breakdown. This signifies the end of a cycle. There follows a synopsis of my ex N's cycle patterns:-

Ending of a cycle - a cycle ends with him breaking down and here he plays the wounded victim, threatens suicide etc. He loses everything at this stage - spouse or gf/kids/home/friends/job, he becomes the most pathetic of creatures. Last breakdown 5 years ago, he admitted himself to a psyche unit for having intrusive thoughts.

Upside of the breakdown - I enjoy seeing him suffer, I can keep my kids away from him for a considerable time.

Downside of the breakdown - he sucks enough people in to feel sorry for him and this gives him enough supply to make the transition into a new cycle. He uses anything he can - radical honesty about his past behaviours, remorse, general pathetic behaviour.
1st upturn part of cycle - Miraculously he always finds some NS supply from somewhere, usually through family support and a new victim who feels sorry for him. He builds himself up with a bit of strength, he goes through a remorseful stage here and victims buy into it, he is so convincing. To me he is like voldemort in the Harry Potter movies who has to slowly claim back all his evil power before he wreaks his vengeance.

Upside. I can generally get on with my life here and he is so busy trying to win everyone’s affections that when he does see the kids he is being nice to them or at worst playing ‘wounded daddy’.

Downside. Even though I appreciate the time of reprieve, I still know what lies ahead.

2nd quarter of upturn - When enough of a false identity has been re-created, he sets about building a new life for himself. He will have a new job by this stage and have gotten himself sorted out with a decent place to live and have a new victim in the wings (usually someone who has been compassionate enough to support him through his breakdown and getting back on his feet). Now the whole reeling in process can start again and it is sickening to observe.

Upside of the 2nd part of upturn - This is when he is wooing and reeling in his new victim by playing 'the most amazing man/father on the planet'. Here he will be doing all the right things with the kids (except coughing up any financial support) - hands on dad, fun time dad. This phase can last a couple of years if we are lucky. He lets his mask slip only to me when I push for financial support or pick him up on the odd shaming tactic he has slipped up on with the kids, of course there are never any witnesses. We can manage during these times because for the most part he is busy trying to uphold his 'prince charming' persona.

Downside of 2nd part of upturn - it is nauseating to watch and I feel such compassion for the new victim who is completely hypnotised and bowled over by her sheer luck at having met this amazing man!. Even if I took the victim aside and showed them this story on the cycle of their charlatan beau, they would not believe me. The cycle is in motion and has to run it's course.

Transition to downturn half of cycle: This is when his mask slips more and more, he barks at the children and tries to control their behaviours - his manipulating and shaming tactics start peeping through the surface. By this point he will be unable to hide his addiction to porn, masturbation and fetish objects. His mask will also be slipping to a shell shocked new wife/live in partner.

Upside of transition: I begin to feel validated that the knowledge I have is the TRUTH, that I wasn't the one going mad or holding onto past grudges, that he had not matured or changed and never will.

Downside of transition: By this stage he will have been playing the game of great guy/father for around 3 years so the children and most others in his life believe him wholeheartedly. It is very painful to see my children coming back to me more and more with complaints about the father they still want to idolise. I begin to gear myself up for the worst part of his cycle.

1st quarter of downturn – at this point there will have been an infidelity of some type, whether it is flirting at work with younger women, flirting by text or perhaps even physically. He will be unable to hide his porn addiction at this stage and day to day relations with wife or partner will become very strained. His control, bullying, shaming and manipulations of my daughters when they are visiting escalates and tears upon their return to me become the norm.

On the downturn there is NO UPSIDE – life starts to become unbearable, the children become more and more upset by his erratic behaviours and shaming and their routines in and out of school start to suffer. My Cptsd starts to trigger badly and depression sets in. . I witness the tiredness and disbelief on his shell shocked wife’s face as she tries to dive into denial from the reality that is her marriage, at this point she too becomes my rival and my children’s rival as she desperately clings to the fantasy that her marriage can be saved.

2nd quarter of downturn – his marriage will disintegrate and he will cling more and more to our children, especially if his wife leaves and takes the baby with her. Me and my children will become the targets for his rage and fury and he will project the blame for everything that is wrong with his life on to us. Eventually he will breakdown and perhaps end up in a psyche unit again. Then the whole sorry cycle will start all over again.

My job now is to get enough proof to a lawyer to get him out of our lives for good. I will not have my children anywhere near him at this part of his cycle and if I can prove that he is pathological and a danger to their wellbeing then my lovely girls won’t have to endure another cycle with a Narcissistic father.

Understanding the cycle helps. I need to be at my strongest NOW!

It would be very interesting to hear if any of you have had a similar experience with N cycles.

May 11 - 8AM
narcnarcwhosthere (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

OLD UNFAITHFUL

the psychopath was crazy 24/7......but he took biannual sprees of insanity...two week 'vacations' where he would hole up in the sleaziest motel room he could find...and just sit there....drunker and crazier than usual.... every six months......between the middle of november and the middle of december....then again mid may to mid june..... finally it got to where i could practically pencil them i on a calender.... he was like OLD UNFAITHFUL.....blowing sky high, right on schedule......
May 10 - 9PM
TexN (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

I hadn't realized...

They had cycles but I'll be damned!!! No wonder he'd be fine for a spell & then he'd wig out! Lets see, he called crying at Christmas feeling sorry for himself, then at the end of March, he called crying saying he would sign his rights over & he was going to commit suicide...I'll be damned, I think we're due for another meltdown at the end of June!!! I think he has enough sense now to keep his crazy emotional crap to himself now (or at least from me anyway) since we'll be going to court soon...
May 10 - 11PM (Reply to #27)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

cycles = vacations from 'sanity'

they have cycles... Cleckley described, years ago, that they become so burdened trying to appear normal that they have to take "vacations from sanity." Whether that's: - going off and getting drunk, stoned or high at intervals (like NN's TurboPsycho did) - needing to visit a high price hooker (like Psycho-Boy did) - starting up and affair behind your back or with your friends (where do I start with all of them here?) - emotional meltdown (not getting enough supply anyway and its too hard to seem like Person so WAAHHH WAAHHH WAAHHH. And if they have death in the family or friends circle - makes it that much easier to go back trolling old sources for a little emotional content) - gambling, irresponsible spending (too hard to be responsible for long) ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
May 10 - 11PM (Reply to #28)
M
M's picture

irresponsible spending

Lucky I kept my accounts separate! He ran up crazy bills--on drinking & entertaining. Just to look like the big shot. I spoke with one of his old associates--he confirmed the pattern. My exN did ran up the bills on his first wife. I luckily stuck him with his own debt, took the house & primary custody. This assoc. attended our wedding. He reminded me of what he told me then--"do not procreate with him". I had so many red flags!! The sad part is this person knew how he was for 20+ years although he condemns the behavior, he still allows it to continue with, "oh that's just the way he is". These N's are predators--looking for the next victim. And our kids get to witness this. Michvegas
May 11 - 8AM (Reply to #29)
sanctuary
sanctuary's picture

I did the finances for the

I did the finances for the family. I kept an account called "alcohol" for all he spent drinking. He didn't really appreciate it when I pointed out he'd nearly spend enough on booze to make the house payment!! or the $1000 he took out of our account in Vegas.... and I'm pretty sure there was a large bill for those old phone sex numbers.... and the 20K to 40K he embezzled from work....all booze and partying...playing big man on campus said he gave some bonuses to his employees too...trying to look so generous as if he was giving from his own money HA HA so many things I can't even remember them all!!!
May 3 - 7AM
narcnarcwhosthere (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

mine couldn't bear to be despised or even disliked..........

he did horrible despicable things.....then would flip out when people hated him for them...it shook him up...because he considered himself to be the nicest guy in the world... he couldn't stand being disliked, let alone despised...that's why he was always on the move...one group of people would catch onto him, and he move on....and on and on....... mine didn't thrive on being hated....hatred scared him....
May 2 - 11PM
James (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Thanks

Klarity Belle Thanks so much for your timeline and comments on this type of cycling of your ex. I too witness a pathological cycling with my own ex and in fact she once tried to project some of it in part by on me by stating a few times “is it time now for you to leave me”. I responded back by saying “We have children together and I love you, no I won’t be going anyway!”. I also knew this part of her cycling and how she needed to be validated (supply) and assured (acknowledgment) of my support of her. Because of her cycling I knew what to say and how to act. This show us how they “train” us to act and respond to this dysfunctional pathological cycling i.e. dance. One other comment is how this cycling and pathological behavior can be so predictable we soon learn what to expect. The upturn in the beginning of the relationship gives us hope they are changing and trying too stop the abuse only to witness the many downturns which leaves us drained abused and emotionally damaged. Once the upturns gave us hope but soon it only gives us some rest if only for awhile. Great timeline of the upturns and downturns and believe it will be of help for many readers and members here and more so for those of us that are trapped in co-parenting with a pathological parent. I for one don’t co-parent and my heart goes out to all of those that do. http://james-personalitydisorder.blogspot.com/
May 3 - 9AM (Reply to #24)
Klarity Belle
Klarity Belle's picture

Macro and Micro cycles

Glad you found the timeline useful James - i did it to get things straight in my own mind after a huge gaslighting session from his proxy wife - where as usual I get portrayed as the crazy one. What I described was his overall cycle but there are definitely smaller up/down cycles within the bigger one too. There is a great article in the vain section by Kathy Krajco where she likens the N to the writer/creator of a story and in the N's story the people in his life are 'his or her' characters. When we stand up to an N or go against his opinions, in his experience it is like we are characters leaping out of 'his' story and telling him to change the script. That imagery has stayed with me and now whenever I challenge the ex or my children do - I imagine this deluded man envisioning us this way. My T refers often to the story of narcissus and reminds me that all ex wants to be is surrounded by echos of "I love you, you are wonderful, you are right, you are powerful" - regardless of all his shaming and controlling words and actions of course! I hate this man but acceptance of what he is, is probably the thing that will help me and my kids the most in the long run - no change is possible for him but there is plenty of hope for me and my girls in the amount of power we allow him to have over us or our joy of life. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The deeper that sadness carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Kahlil Gibran http://www.storyofmylife.com/KLARITY4

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The deeper that sadness carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Kahlil Gibran

"That which we do not confront in ourselves we meet as fate" ~ Carl Jung

http://www.storyofmylife.com/KLARITY4

May 2 - 6PM
Susan32
Susan32's picture

They're not all this way

My ex-N never dared to look at his pathetic behavior. Some Narcs can feign remorse, and even feign change... mine never did. He remained an emotional blank, a total void... He said it wasn't the REAL him who had treated me badly. The utter reptilian lack of remorse was chilling. He never tried to change, never apologized-I was the one always apologizing (till I got a backbone and said I was tired of doing it) He couldn't bear seeing me as his equal... as another human being. I was devastated, used, and all he could say was that my feelings for him were a "diversion."
May 2 - 8PM (Reply to #18)
Klarity Belle
Klarity Belle's picture

Mine neither

He only pretended to look at his pathetic behaviour to gain supply - when I first met him I thought "anyone who is being this honest about their past mistakes is ready for change" - he was working it - big time! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The deeper that sadness carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Kahlil Gibran http://www.storyofmylife.com/KLARITY4

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The deeper that sadness carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Kahlil Gibran

"That which we do not confront in ourselves we meet as fate" ~ Carl Jung

http://www.storyofmylife.com/KLARITY4

May 2 - 8PM (Reply to #19)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

He briefly mentioned his pathetic behavior

At the get-go,he said,"I've hurt a lot of people. Don't get close to me." And boy, did I get burned! At my college, he wasn't merely disliked. At college, there are people who are disliked. But he was passionately hated. There were students who deemed him the Devil, a robot, a monster--and he fed off of that. He thought their hatred was a form of respect. Really.
May 4 - 12PM (Reply to #22)
whatever2009
whatever2009's picture

Mine TOO!!!!

Mine use to say, "My whole life Ive hurt girls, so its bound to happen to you" oh and then after that it would go too....."I hate women, I hate what the talk about how they behave etc, but you are like a normal women" I hate him more and more everyday, and let me tell you something the thought of ever letting that pervert touch me again makes me sick. Oh I also found out recently that he has "journaled" conversations weve had, made a list of what I said and put points he wanted to make against what I said beside them, which would explain why it always took 48hours for him to throw something in my face. WHAT A WACKOOOO.
May 2 - 10PM (Reply to #20)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

they don't mean a word

he probably heard that in a movie somewhere... they think there is NOTHING wrong with their behavior. They feel no guilt, remorse, etc - just something to "say" to reel you in. ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
May 2 - 11PM (Reply to #21)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

It's just an act

There was something eerily scripted in the way my ex-N talked. I see all the anger and hate (which IS justified) directed at ex-Narcs, but there are Narcs who feed off such anger and hatred. It's like that part in "Return of the Jedi" when Emperor Palpatine is telling Luke to FEEL the hate, and get on the Dark Side of the Force. My ex-N had body language that betrayed him-he could look guilty, sad, angry, or hiding something... but his eyes were a pair of dark abysses. It was like looking into the void.
Apr 30 - 9AM
Klarity Belle
Klarity Belle's picture

Predictable!

That is so interesting to hear that other's here have had experiences of a long cycle too, I know there are smaller cycles going on within it all the time but in the bigger picture this is how it always goes with my N. Chilling for our kids because they get hooked in to the 'fake dad' phase and then get the stuffing knocked out when the mask slips. I hate the bastard for what he does to my children. Child psyches are not interested - say I need to put the past behind me and not influence my girls with 'my' feelings about their father. How deep the ignorance runs in the very organisations that are supposed to be there to help protect us from these creeps. My heart goes out to each and every one of you who has to co-parent with one of these slimeballs. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The deeper that sadness carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Kahlil Gibran http://www.storyofmylife.com/KLARITY4

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The deeper that sadness carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Kahlil Gibran

"That which we do not confront in ourselves we meet as fate" ~ Carl Jung

http://www.storyofmylife.com/KLARITY4

Apr 30 - 9AM
sanctuary
sanctuary's picture

All of that is sooo

All of that is sooo familiar. That is all so true, the cycles and all. We're stuck with them because of the kids, it helps to be able to predict the behavior if only to be able to do damage control. Sadly enough I've made a game out of it. Guessing what he'll do and when. I've actually gotten pretty good at it. Like you Klarity, I've been doing it a long time. I've known him about 18 yrs now. Makes my stomach turn to think it's been that long. His cycles are more topic specific, but now that you mention it, if I look at the bigger picture, he dated new W about the same amount of time we did, he moved in with me until we bought a new house (at my insistence,) he just moved in with her. Changed jobs at about the same time into the relationship. He was cheating on me the whole time. but it really picked up at about yr 4, which is right about now for them. I know he's cheated on her, so that's about right on too. So if his cycles hold true, and we all know they will, that gives him about 3yrs to totally ruin it where even she can't look past the behavior. I am concerned that if he loses in court based on the upcoming Psych Eval Report, he may tank sooner. My concern is that he might really go over the edge and come after me and or my daughter. When I kicked him out of my life before, he threatened suicide, if only this time he'd actually go through with it. We can only hope!!!
Apr 30 - 9AM
narcnarcwhosthere (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

the cycle........

thankfully mine finally came to end of his cycle and died..... but wow.....when i read what you've writtenn it sent chills up my spine....for years i thought he was bipolar or SOMETHING....he cycled like an old speed queen dishwasher....rattling or humming........ he was at the point that every six months he was taking his 'vacations from sanity'.....and goind stark raving for two weeks or more.....then coming back refreshed and ready to start all over again...... my heart goes out to you....i lived this very Hell for seventeen years.....
May 1 - 7AM (Reply to #14)
Klarity Belle
Klarity Belle's picture

tied to the cycle

Even though I am NPD aware now and he cannot manipulate 'my' truth about me anymore with his projections and scapegoating as he used to, I am still tied to his sad N cycle. I am tied because at the moment my children are tied - he is unable to attack me directly any more but he is able to attack his own children - this in turn attacks me, how could it not? I am finding that setting boundaries with an NPD only aggravates them more and they up their game plan. Garden variety difficult folk give up when they find boundaries that are strong enough to keep them from their antics but not with a Narc - it will infuriate him/her more. I am biding my time because I know he will make another big mistake soon and once I have enough big mistakes documented, i'm going for gold - to legally get him out of our lives as soon as I possibly can. I am so sad for my children that they have to go through this when they should be enjoying their young lives. His proxy wife is driving me mad too - its like trying to be sold his smokescreens and mirrors twice over...according to her my children are playing me and i'm taking the bait.....exhausting! I am dealing with Voldemort and Wormtail and i'm sick of them both. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "The deeper that sadness carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Kahlil Gibran http://www.storyofmylife.com/KLARITY4

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The deeper that sadness carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." ~ Kahlil Gibran

"That which we do not confront in ourselves we meet as fate" ~ Carl Jung

http://www.storyofmylife.com/KLARITY4

Apr 30 - 8AM
AnotherPath
AnotherPath's picture

My exN is in the cycle of

My exN is in the cycle of having a new gf and her 2 year old baby. I co-parent a nearly 5 and 7 year old. At the moment due to new victim he plays "great" dad in front of everyone. I can't keep them away from him due to the court order and he's pressing for more contact. I worry for my kids SO much for their future knowing him. He has a criminal record (new victim won't know about) and I saw how he was with the children at 2 and 4. How do we protect our children when the courts insists he sees them equally? I think I will lose this time if we go to court and the judge will give exN more visitation. This is the only thing I care about, their welfare. Right now my children don't think he's a great dad however hard he pretends. They saw him battery me and remember the police and ambulance even 2 years on. My son aged 4 is saying he misses his Dad this week though as he's still in super dad mode to impress. My daughter of 7 doesn't have that. He also pays no money. I'm hoping they will just see him, get through the next 6 years where he doesn't do anything too bad then they can make up their own minds. Is this all there is for us mothers to do. Even a psychiatric evaluation isn't going to limit contact by the sounds of it, but just cost thousands that I just don't have

Ending the dance

Apr 30 - 3PM (Reply to #5)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

psych eval

a psych eval will get you SUPERVISED VISITATION which is good for the kids... and usually makes the narc go away & give up faster... just allowing it because you don't feel like fighting him is wrong, IMHO ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
May 1 - 7PM (Reply to #6)
AnotherPath
AnotherPath's picture

But he has unsupervised now.

But he has unsupervised now. Was supervised for over a year. The courts won't go back to supervised and last time I was in court I won by the skin of my teeth due to social services (cafcass) backing me. The judge said he felt for the father and that although social services said I did fear him the judge wasn't sure this was true......even though he has a conviction! The judge wanted us to co-parent so the children go freely to each parent and that I must talk to the ex. Does a psych evaluation make that much difference? if I knew that it would make a difference with visitation then I would do it despite the cost.

Ending the dance

May 4 - 5AM (Reply to #11)
TexN (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Anotherpath

How did you go from "supervised" to "unsupervised" visits? (I will be asking the judge for supervised visitations when we go to court.)
May 5 - 6PM (Reply to #12)
AnotherPath
AnotherPath's picture

After a year and a half of

After a year and a half of supervised we went back to court. The judge asked for unsupervised despite Cafcass (social services to the court) stating she had doubts about him.. The judge told me I should talk to ex and co-parent so the kids go freely between us otherwise I would be damaging the children. I have to add here he has a conviction for assault. He gets two saturday nights a month with them and is pressing for more. Holiday period coming up!!! I have no lawyer as I can't afford one, he pays no maintenance. If he presses again I am going to go to my doctor to ask for a psychiatric evaluation. That's the only thing I can think of doing. The last meeting with Cafcass he got very angry and she was concerned and wrote this in her report. The court in the uk is shit. Although I won each time, their underlying belief is that the children should be shared. Supervised is a stepping stone and I was lucky the children got it for over a year, the courts want to progress onwards as much as they can even when there is a conviction!!! Last week during his time the kids played up in the car. His gf's friend was in the car so he couldn't shout at them but the children told me he put his hand round my daughters leg and squeezed it so hard she cried and he wouldn't stop. There's the anger........ will always be there.

Ending the dance

May 2 - 9AM (Reply to #8)
sanctuary
sanctuary's picture

They can make a difference.

They can make a difference. The more history you show of him being a nut the better!! Out here the judges like to pass the buck to an Evaluator so they don't have to take the heat if something happens. If you can get Social Services or a Therapist or both, to support you it might at least get it back to court to petition the Eval. Also if you can find an Evaluator who's familiar with N's petition to get a specific Evaluator appointed that understands the true situation. Good Luck!!
May 5 - 6PM (Reply to #9)
AnotherPath
AnotherPath's picture

Thanks for that. I'm going

Thanks for that. I'm going to go through my doctor as I have no lawyer, I have no money to pay for one.

Ending the dance

May 5 - 7PM (Reply to #10)
sanctuary
sanctuary's picture

Do it any way you can. I

Do it any way you can. I don't have a lawyer either. But the court appointed one to my daughter and made me pay for it. I didn't have the money either. Probably why my house just went into foreclosure. Awaiting the report right now. The waiting is killing me!!! and my daughter!!
May 1 - 10PM (Reply to #7)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

YES!

Does a psych evaluation make that much difference? YES - and take it back to CAFCASS and get them to back you again. Ask for a new judge, too. And report the old one at http://www.robeprobe.com Are the children in counseling also? They should be to deal with this predator! ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
Apr 30 - 7AM
dysenchanted
dysenchanted's picture

So familiar

I could have written this. It's weird how alike they all are,especially considering how unique and special they THINK they are.
May 5 - 9AM (Reply to #3)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Philosophical ex-N

My ex-N thought he was so brilliant his colleagues tended to avoid him. It's as if his narcissism drove them away. Then there's karma. I'm sure I wasn't the first woman he D&D'd,nor the last (he did get married after I left the state) Actions have consequences. It's called karma.
May 3 - 5AM (Reply to #2)
Scoop
Scoop's picture

Its so true they all think

Its so true they all think they are unique lol . my narc had very worrying very short cycles . Up down , up down .. crazy delousions about bringing about world revolution to writing his political manifesto to rival marx . when i pointed out the the revolution was not likely to happen soon he would fly off the handle accusing me of being ignorent and i was the number one reason why the revolution hasnt happened yet....oh the crazyness .. oh the humanity ..im going shopping its the only normal thing to do right now ! Scoop x