New here & in need of some help

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Jun 20 - 4PM (Reply to #41)
Happy1
Happy1's picture

Athena

Your mind and heart are in two different places. It's time to listen to what your head is telling you and not your heart. If you go back to this man you will be even more miserable and unhappy. You are safe where you are and under his control if you go back. Do not listen to him. Listen to your fear and head. It's telling you to not go. For your own sake and safety, you should not. Read everything you can on this. Knowledge of this is power for you. Power to stay strong.
Jun 20 - 4PM (Reply to #42)
Sparrow
Sparrow's picture

Well said......very well

Well said......very well said.
Jun 20 - 9AM (Reply to #39)
Sherbear
Sherbear's picture

Athena...

I am so glad that you found this site as it will be a catalyst for your healing. Everything you are feeling right now is completely normal. The highs and lows, the doubt, the shame, the confusion....we have all been there. The pain is crippling. We know that pain and we know the incredibly hard path you will need to take to get not only this toxic man out of your life, but how to also recognize red flags and set boundaries so that these disturbing people won't affect your life ever again. Athena, this man is a CLASSIC narc, toxic, disturbed individual. There are so many red flags that I can't hit all of them but I will touch on the big ones for me. My narc was also an addict, and we grew up together 30 years ago on the same street and we were each other's first kiss. We reunited over a year ago and it was magic. We couldn't beleive after all these years that our fairy tale was going to come true. We were sooo happy and we quickly became best friends again, each other's confidants. I was not in a good place in my marriage and I left my husband at this point. He told me numerous times a day how much he loved me and that he felt God sent him an angel to save his life....the only woman who could penetrate his heart since his ex wife shattered it. (his story) We talked of blending our families and moving to be together. He admitted his addiction to me and we cried for 6 hours one morning as we let down our masks and shared secrets that haunted us and we bonded that day in a way I have never done before with anyone. We called it 4 points b/c of the hotel we were staying at. He desperately needed to detox, b/c his ex wife just died and he was going to be getting his 3 kids. He also needed to get a 9-5 job so that he would be able to be there for the kids. His life was in major transition and I knew this from the start. I supported him as he detoxed and he started a recovery program. He was committing 18 months to it. Then, he did it. He completely changed on me in a matter of a day. We were together happy and in love one day and the next, he was a completely differnt person. He was cold and distant and it scared me.....he told me that he needed to concentrate on his recovery and getting his kids back and he couldn't be in a relationship right now. I was crushed but understood what he need to do and I gave him that support. I gave him space to do what he needed to do in his life, the whole time, him contacting me at his convenience, checking to see if I was still there. He told me that I could call him anytime, that he would be there for me, that he didn't want to lose his best friend. But every time I tried to contact him, he ignored my calls and texts. He wouldn't pick up at all. I called him out on behaviors and he would apologize and then do the same exact thing. I knew something was way wrong, but I couldn't put the pieces together. But eventually I did. Well, he did the find a good job, he got his kids, he successfully detoxed. On the outside it looked like he was following thru with everything he set out to do. Last June, he contacted me that he would be in my area and he love to see me and catch up. I agreed. He told me how proud he was of himself that he is still single and unattached. The next day he sent a picture of the 4 points sign as he was there for work and sitting at the pool. He knew what that pic meant to me. And then a few days later, he cancelled getting together saying he wouldn't be in town. Well, guess what? He lied. I know he was here...I'm not an idiot. A few more months of this back and forth and me still confused and then it happened. The other woman finally started posting pics all over FB. Most pics were of them drinking (no recovery there) and in other pics she was almost naked with him kissing her forehead the way he used to kiss me. He was with her since June when he was telling me how proud he was of himself for staying single and wanting to see me. As shocking as it was, it was a relief to finally have the truth. I sent him a message that said, I was happy that they were so happy together and that it was finally time to let him go for good. He raged after this and then called me a psycho and told me to leave him alone and keep his name out of my mouth. I have not seen him in 15 months and have been no contact for 10 months. But he is still in my brain. I am getting way better b/c of the knowledge that I have gained and this site and time to recover. But I am not healed yet. There is a reunion this weekend for all the kids that grew up on my street growing up...but I will not be there. I am not ready to handle that yet. And I am proud of myself for recognizing that I am not strong enough yet. Athena, you are not strong enough right now to go to him at this point. It's amazing to me how your narc is able to take this whole situation and make it all about him. He has taken the focus of how horribly he treated you and put the focus all on him. Has he apologized for one thing that he done to you? Mine NEVER did, only turned it around on me and said I obviously thought more of what was happening than he did. No real man would propose marriage, uproot your life, have you quit your job and move to another country, only to go cold on you. That's not normal. His hot and cold conversations with you are NOT NORMAL. I understand that you want to believe that there is still good in him, that he can change b/c of his past behaviors. How he was so good to you at one time. That is the idealization phase...the honeymoon, he is hooking you. I had such a hard time believing that he is not the man that I fell in love with, but he IS NOT. I never would have beleived that mine could do to me what he did....I never thought he would hurt me, he was my hero, my rescuer. But he is an addict and disordered and I can't even begin to understand how their brains work. It makes no sense to a normal person. I mean mine was telling me how proud he was of his recovery and status, while the whole time he was with another woman and drinking and partying! You can't beleive a word they say. You have to look at their actions. And you have to know that they WILL NOT change. EVER. It's so hard to wrap your brain around. Please don't go back to his country, it will only cause you more pain. Listen to your gut and your instincts, they are screaming out to you. You don't need to go there for closure. I would be enlisting everyone you know to help get your things and help you move on from this mess, esp. if they have already said they will help. I would not give this man the pleasure of ever seeing your beautiful face again. Take a stand and and know that you will be okay, you will heal from this, you will move on from this man and have a wonderful life. Don't doubt what your soul is telling you....this man is stealing your light and sucking you dry. And he has no mercy for your feelings whatsoever. What kind of man drops a woman, who he says he loves, at a bus stop in a foreign country where she doesn't speak the language and then turns it around to make it look like he is the victim???????????????? It's not about him, it was about your safety and protecting the woman he loves, it's the least he could do after completely uprroting and making a freaking MESS of your life. Don't give in, Athena! Distance is your best friend right now. Wishing you strength and peace and love right now. xoxo Sherry
Jun 20 - 10AM (Reply to #40)
Athena
Athena's picture

Thank you Sherry

Thank you so much for taking the time to write so movingly to me of your story. I feel so humbled when I consider my story and how much more painful it must be for you given the history. I have only been with this guy for two years and thank God that was mostly long distance! I'm so sorry for what you went through. I really feel the pain your heart had to bear and the wound it still carries. I really appreciated your comment that I am not strong enough to go back to him yet. That was really helpful even though I'm not 100% certain why.It hurts so much to hear the reality of what he did to me, but I need to face that so as to get strong again. Less of the tears and more anger, that seems to embolden me. Allowing myself to feel angry. Your last paragraph made me cry, it touched me so deeply, made me feel worth something, cared for. God Bless you and I hope you will know is light now and always and only light. Thank you Sherry so much. Athena
Jun 20 - 9AM (Reply to #38)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

Athena

My heart is breaking for you! I was in love with my narc for 20 yrs on and off! I had no idea how sick he is! I will always love him / yet I hate him, At the same time! Your story is making my head spin, I can't imagine how you feel ( I guess I do know how you feel) I'm not going to preach, it's a waste of time! This man is evil, yes evil! He is playing with you and quite frankly I don't like it! What's it going to take for you to listen? I don't know! Good Luck Hunter
Jun 20 - 4AM (Reply to #35)
Sparrow
Sparrow's picture

I am very bothered by what I

I am very bothered by what I have been reading and I will tell you in a few short words so as to not drag this out Athena......... This man you are with, he is not a man, he is a monster. unfortunately, you refuse to believe, but you DO see it, otherwise you wouldn't be writing what you are writing. I feel compelled to be as open and honest with you as I can. In my opinion he is more than just a narc, he is a schizophrenic in the worst way. I can not stress to you the amount of DANGER you are in. DO NOT ignore thes girls when they try to explain to you what you are up against. YOU KNOW OR YOU WOULDNT have joined........this is the harsh reality. You are not going to like what you have to hear but it does have to be said for you to understand. I will give you my opinion as I promised to keep this short.......... You will be dead in less then a years time if you don't get away from him. He is a danger to you and you refuse to see that. You are looking at this man with only one eye and a fools heart. You will walk back into his life until that last time, you will not be able to escape. Get away while you can!
Jun 20 - 5AM (Reply to #36)
Athena
Athena's picture

Afraid Sparrow

Dear Sparrow, Your words really scared me. I do know something is not right with him, but yes, I don't seem to be able to or want to believe it. Is all what I am writing evidencing such a serious mental illness as schizophrenia, why can't I see this? What is wrong with me. I think I must be the person that is unwell, if I can't hear or understand what you feel puts me in such danger that my life is at risk. He has never ever been phsyically violent toward me. Perhaps it is that you see what I can't, that perhaps if I continue in the relationship I would provoke my own sabotage. I wish I could understand. I feel so scared now. Maybe that is a good thing. I'm trying to get away and I know I have to. I need help.
Jun 20 - 2PM (Reply to #37)
Sparrow
Sparrow's picture

ATHENA

And rightfully so Athena...........you should be afraid. There are all sorts of mental illnesses in this world and there are a lot of women on this site that have had their experiences. Some have been with men with what appears to be a mild case os narcisism, others have been with extreme cases..........all very similar of course. They are all harmful to us in one way or another. Of course the mild cases, they just play with our heads, screws us up because they can..........get pleasure out of toying emotionally with other people. They are heartless........then you have the extreme, that can not function in the real world,without hurting someone, are filled with hate in their heart and are harmful to the extreme and make it their lifes mission, it's the only way they can function....then, you have the EXTREMELY dangerous.....do you realize that many famous serial killers are/were narcs? Ted Bundy, The Columbine killers, the Virginia tech killer, to name a few........There are so many different levels of this illness. Athena, what you need to do first and foremost is seek therapy for yourself, also educate yourself as much as possible. If it means reading every damn thing ever written about personality disorders. Stay in touch with the girls on this site also. I AM NOT TRYING TO INTENTIONALLY SCARE YOU, I AM SEEING A SCARED, VERY NIAVE, DESPERATE TO BE LOVED, CONFUSED YOUNG WOMAN...........who needs to hear the harsh reality of what you are dealing with. I don't know you, nor him, but from what I have read so far..........your narc actually makes the hair on my arms raise. I DO NOT, I REPEAT, I DO NOT have even a reasonably good feeling about this man. I would sooner go back to my narc and everyone elses on this site before even having a long distance phone conversation with yours. All the girls on this site are very knowledgeable and you would be hard pressed to hear anyone disagree with what I am saying. Their intentions are all good, unlike your narcs intentions. Listen to them and make an appt with a therapist. You are suffering from a life time of issues that are making you feel worthless, and vulnerable to this monster. I won't droan on any more.........for now. Athena, be safe and be strong! DO NOT MAKE A MOVE UNTIL YOU HAVE EDUCATED YOURSELF MORE!!!! Once you do that, you won't move there, this I guarantee. BE SAFE.
Jun 19 - 2PM (Reply to #29)
girlsinger
girlsinger's picture

Athena

Hi Actually, that's funny I dont have a man in my life right now at all I discovered something through this journey and that is I am the one I have been waiting for all of my life! and that this girl deserves to give herself everything he was giving to Dr Narc Love kindness genleness encouragement honesty..all of my care and love in other words, Im a work in progress if someone comes along that is worthy of me then we shall see I think that beauty is just that... beauty its what you got given to you its wonderful, its a gift.. but Your soul.. as I always say "Its an iside job" your spirit.. .that is the thing we get to mold and grow to look deeper to really become "genuine" now that is true beauty to set down the things that would bind or hinder to love, oneself...really love onself to never ever give yourself away to one that is unworthy now, that is divine I think its great that you are being gifted with this lesson now. you caN SENSe abuse and flee easy does it.. be blessed K
Jun 21 - 7AM (Reply to #32)
Goldie
Goldie's picture

I love this girlsinger

This is beautiful and we need to focus more on ourselves and you said it all. I'd love to start a post on this if you don't mind. God bless, Goldie
Jun 20 - 3AM (Reply to #31)
Athena
Athena's picture

Thank you girlsinger

Hello there, I really misunderstood your last message. I thought that you were now with a normal decent man and that I felt both happy (and envious) for that. Yesterday was a day from hell and my brain was so destroyed I don't know what I was reading, how I was reading or what I was writing. Your message here is so beautiful and it made me cry so much. All what you write I know is true, I'm really struggling to love myself right now, to b kind and gentle and all the things I seem to be for him but not for myself. I feel so frustrated because I just don't seem to know how. I will keep re-reading your words. I'm so grateful to you for sending them, your kindness even though I know my hurt is causing me to show myself here as quite 'ugly'. I'm just in so much pain. I almost can't bear it any more. Thank you so much for being here. Hope you have a lovely day. Athena
Jun 19 - 2PM (Reply to #30)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

Girlsinger

Rock on! That was excellent! Hunter
Jun 19 - 12PM
Hunter
Hunter's picture

athena

http://lifelightloveafternarcissisticabuse.wordpress.com/darkness/top-100-traits/ We are not making this stuff up! Hunter
Jun 19 - 10AM
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

DROP HIM!

Listen to Hunter. She's telling you some very sensible advice. First. This man is a former heroin addict. Now he's withdrawing from another addiction (probably methadone) which helped him beat the heroin addiction. Narcissists are often substance abusers. RED FLAG!!!! (PS. Most heroin abusers relapse. Can you deal with that craziness? And then again sobriety for awhile. And again a relapse. Usually they can remain sober after the age of 50. Prior, it is always a struggle. And whether sober or using, he loves heroin more than he loves you, his children, or his own mother.) Second. He asked you to QUIT your job & leave your country & bring your possessions to his place to MARRY you & then he backed out! Because of water drips & crumbs? NUTS. Totally nuts. You are the one who should be having doubts about wanting to be with him after all the sacrifices you have made for him & he's jerking you around with utter nonsense. Third. His e-mail below is nonsense. Emotional manipulation. It speaks to you on some level (in a way that does not affect me or others) because you are still caught in the "web of the narcissist." He has already brainwashed you & made you accept his twisted reasonings. There can be something hypnotic about these types. Once you manage to get yourself out of the web of the narcissist, you will be able to read what crap he has written. You have suffered a trauma. You are ashamed because you left a place looking for something better & different. And now you are back & how to explain to people? You do not have to explain. Just jump into life. Be thankful he is in another country. Block his e-mail accounts. Do not take his calls. This guy could not even bring you to the airport. You will never get your stuff back from him. FORGET HIM. If you go back to him & marry him, this misery now will be nothing in comparison with what will occur in your future.
Jun 19 - 9AM
fooled no longer
fooled no longer's picture

I know exactly how you feel I

I know exactly how you feel I have been stuck in a foreign country in a foreign language since 2002. There is nothing I havent tried or sacrified to apease this Bastardo! its all been a complete waste of time. He is just a worthless POS. I should have picked up my handbag years ago and disappeared. This is what you should do... ask someone to help you if you have to, tell them your afraid of him, you be surprised how people respond. Dont live one more minute under his control.
Jun 19 - 9AM
Hunter
Hunter's picture

Athena

You tell me, does this make sense? "NO" Cut your loses and move on. DO NOT ever answer this crazy man again. Be glad you escaped. Stay here with us. Hunter
Jun 18 - 6PM
rosedewittbukater
rosedewittbukater's picture

narcspeak

Athena, first let me say I am so sorry for what you have been through. How awful to have traveled so far and then to have been treated so terribly. This is standard operating procedure for these guys however. I am a little unclear on something however, when he refers to his "illness" is he admitting to having NPD? or referring to another physical or mental illness? So many of us here have heard the same words you have. I strongly suggest reading Lisa's books if you have not yet, and please read "NARCSPEAK" which you can find here on this site. "I am afraid of you and your anger" is pure projection. Also, this is a line they like to use ALOT whenever they feel you are on to them and maybe even (how dare you) asking them to be held accountable. You see, no one else is entitled to anger except them. I am sure your "anger" was in reality just you wanting to be treated like a human being and be allowed feelings and needs of your own! You are doing the right thing by coming here. Please don't despair. Lots of people here will have sage advice that is worth listening to. Peace and healing, Rose
Jun 18 - 5PM
Athena
Athena's picture

Add on...

Hi again, since I wrote this orignal first message I received an email from him - I hope it's ok to share it here, I don't wish to flout any forum protocol and if I do I am sorry but it is in ignorance on account of being new here. I just wanted to share because I have felt encouraged by his words, but because I have been in receipt of so many mixed messages in the relationship thus far that has caused me such hurt I don't trust myself to know what is real anymore, but this feels to have come from a sincere place and just need some support in discerning this - so here is what I received:n.b. my emial to him called him on his mixed messages and abusive behaviours, I copied an article on NPD and included it to him.... "Dear, I just couldn't get myself to read your giant e mail for days. Finally I did read it now. I don't know what to write, what to do, what to conclude, where to go from here. For days now I felt full of regret and resentful about us for reasons i don't think make sense to discuss now after reading this. Now our issue seems so difficult and complicated and I should probably read your e mail again. I also feel very tired from all this going on. Maybe I should also try to pray to God find a way out of this darkness we got ourselves into. Hope you are doing well in spite of all we are going through. I am beginning to realize how cold and full of fear and thus withdrawn into my interior I am. From that point of view your dissapointment makes sense or better to say it fits with the reality of how I am manifesting myself emotionally on daily basis. I hope I can change that urgently, open my heart for you, for my family and for my friends as well as all the people who come on my way. I just need to start feeling differently. I need to feel warmth and safty inside myself. At least more than I do now which is minimal. I want my throat to relax and that I can start communicating again. I know I used to feel that life is fun some time ago. I d like to know that again. And you. I need to reconsider all of us again. I need a completely new perspective on us. Hope I have time to do that considering the unknown part about where you're at. Big part of it is my illness. I wouldn't want to be with myself during much of my waking moments.Fortunately I am getting better. That is true and I know what it takes for me to do what I need to and I plan to as I do believe and strongly feel I am getting out of this horrible place you found me in. Maybe when I finally open my heart's eyes you will still be there. God I wish that to be true!" This made me feel that my decision to leave has reached him on some level and resurrected the fading hope I have. At the same time I was just getting to a place in my mind to move on. I don't know what to do. Thank you for listening and any thoughts that may help clear my fogged thoughts would be so welcome. I feel so alone and have been so hurt by this man that I am afarid to trust him. Thank you, Athena
Jun 19 - 9AM (Reply to #21)
fooled no longer
fooled no longer's picture

I remember getting exactly

I remember getting exactly this letter its just a bunch of shit. And dont ever send an article on NPD to a guy if hes a Narc which he sounds like he is, or just a f cking A hole which he definately is, he is not going to read that article THEY CANNOT AND WILL NOT CHANGE OR LOOK AT THEIR BEHAVIORS EVER! TAPE THESE WORDS TO YOUR MIRROR!
Jun 19 - 9AM (Reply to #20)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

ATHENA

This guy is Whacked, He's playing Headfuck. Did he send you your things? No, words are just words. A normal person wants to believe his words, but will action meet the words. My guess in "NO" Don't walk, RUN ,from this disturbed individual, Learn from my mistakes. Hunter
Jun 18 - 8PM (Reply to #2)
wacaet
wacaet's picture

does he have a physical

does he have a physical illness that he's referring to? it's hard to tell, his letter does sound like "narcspeak" and the drips on the floor after a shower is pure narc (there's at least one other woman here who got that same anger from her N) did you have a job before? any chance of getting it back? whatever is going on with him, it doesn't sound safe for you to go back there
Jun 19 - 4AM (Reply to #3)
Athena
Athena's picture

Thank you so much for replying &..His "illness"

I am so grateful to having received replies, thank you both. I was so upset when I first wrote so can see how it read as a little garbled. I was a nervous wreck so much of the time living with him, nothing I did seemed to be right, I let drips of water on the floor which made him angry, I could 'feel' his contempt, became angry at 'breadcrumbs' on teh work top, any little thing he would belittle me for my inadequacy in keeping the place clean and yet it had never been more clean that when I lived with him! I have been reading and am recognising with hindsight how miuch of his talk was projection and 'narc speak'. However, I don't hear that in this letter. Wacaet can you please help me understand what in his letter reads as narcspeak as I'm so confused because I read it as sincere, not asking me back, uttering sweet nothings but being quite real. No? He was an opiate addict 6 years ago and has been clean for 4, he is withdrawing from a medication designed to prevent relapse and that is partly why I left as he is undertaking this process. I told him he is sick, mentally unwell and he agreed, it was a very painful encounter, deeply moving and we hugged each other and cried and I told him that as best I could I would support him through this and therapy. He told me that he knows he has something wrong with his brain chemistry, that he feels he is not right. So it is this that he is referring to as 'his illness' his disordered brain chemistry. I couldn't face going back to my old job as they send me off with a huge dinner and gifts galore. I will try and find work elsewhere. So hard for me to think straight at the moment. I feel so let down, he made so many promises to me that were not only broken but for good measure he treated me like was a nothing. I make friends so easily and sometimes he would say: 'why do people like yous o much?' I found comments like that strange. I know I cannot go back in 4 weeks, but I do love him still and from all that i have read here of people's experiences he is not as bad as to perhaps be defined as evil, not at all. But he has been so emotionally abusive an bullying and has hurt me over and over. But I still carry hope and I came here to see if it is a false one. He believes that when he quits these meds, his moods will be more stable, he won't be so agitated and empty. How will I know if this is true? I am afraid to trust him again, but I love him dearly.
Jun 19 - 9AM (Reply to #4)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

Athena

WHat do you love? You are brainwashed into believing this is love. It is not love, It is abuse. Yes, his words are sincere, that's what they so. get familiar with this disorder, He is the DEVIL, Please listen, He will destroy you inch by inch. They are MASTER MANIPULATORS put on this earth to DESTROY. Reread what you wrote. He got up set because of water on the floor. Its water, wipe it up. GOOD GOD! Hunter
Jun 19 - 11AM (Reply to #5)
Athena
Athena's picture

Please can someone help, I'm so confused.

Dear All, Thank you so much for writing to me. I feel so alone with all of this. I am back living with my mother, and we are arguing so much because of this relationship of mine. She is angry, not at me, but for me, but I can’t hear that as support so I am in pieces. My best friend told me she is fed up of me and has told me she doesn’t want to hear from me again. Your replies and my shame is that it is the only support I have. I shall do my best to show my gratitude in what I now feel having read all your words, at the same time please know that I cannot betray what I feel even though it may feel to do so ‘spits’ out your words of support. Agnes, he is a former heroin addict. And was in recovery before I met him. He used methadone and a year prior to meeting him he changed to buprenorphine (suboxone) . When we first met, he was on 26mg, he is now ‘jumping off’ and stable at 0.5mg. My ‘leaving’ him , my saying this is ‘bullshit’ forced him to go through the withdrawal he now goes through. I am of course having doubts about wanting to be with him, but I know his fear of losing me is what has galvanised him to get his shit together. What he is asking of me is to have patience that he will be better. I don’t believe that because as you rightly stated his narcissism is the reason why he used drugs in the first place. I have told him that without them and a good woman that loves him, me, he will still have to face the the underlying reasons for using in the first place. He understands this. I agree that I am under the spell of a hypnosis, but after all isn’t that the feeling we all have when in love? To feel ‘giddy’, ‘brainwashed’ willing to do whatever makes the loved one happy, because we love? The difference with the men we have been with or continue to love is that they do not respond to that ‘brainwashing’ with fulfilling our hopes, one’s normal and healthy hopes born from a surrendering to that ‘madness’ that is to be in love. In short , they don’t follow through. That is the hurtful part. I really don’t experience that what he has written is crap, it becomes crap when it is never followed through, no? Aren’t all communications of feeling, emotive and do they not only become ‘twisted’and words of ‘emotional manipulation’ when you hear too many of them and experience their lack of authenticity? I must get my stuff back and I will get it back. I worked hard for these things and I will not let him keep them. I just don’t know how right now. I am listening to Hunter’s words, but all I hear is anger. That shuts me down. To dear ‘fooled no longer’ my heart breaks at what you wrote for the circumstances so alike mine make me feel your ache more greatly. I am so sorry of the position you are in and seem to be remained in. There is also nothing I haven’t tried to do. Even when I wasn’t inspired to learn his language, for obvious reasons, he used that as a reason to get pissed off with me, telling me ‘how much it hurts’ that I don’t want to. Truth is I love living in his country and have made so many friends there, it is far better a place for me to live than my own, but he is the fly in the ointment…As such, I have many friends who have already told me they will go and get my things from his palce and then I can come back to get them. You are right people are so helpful, but I hate feeling like a teenager in need of rescue at the age of 32. He did read the article, it wasn’t entitled ‘NPD’ but was about roles of rescuer and persecutor. He told me he was grateful for the article and that he felt ashamed to identify with the description of persecutor. I had hoped he would then apologise but he didn’t. Hunter, I agree with you that he is destroying me, and he is the most brilliant lawyer in his country, and as such a master manipulator but I refuse to believe that he is the devil, for the devil is incapable of showing loving kindness that he has shown to me again and again in the past. Should I not credit that? I am sorry if I sound upset. It’s because I am. And perhaps Hunter, you have more wisdom and insight into the type of man I want to believe I am with. I will be the first to ‘look back’ and say ‘my God what a fool I have been’ but until then, please understand how I am caught in a terrible trap right now, where I don’t know what is left from right or up from down. Right now I really need some advice. I want to tell him to ‘F** off’ but I just don’t know how. For me going NC is not the way. Before I do that I have to extricate myself by telling him we’re done, at the same time I have to integrate that into protecting my things. So please help me. Should I ask my friend who has already offered to get my stuff from his place to do that? She is just waiting for me to give her his mobile number. Then she would call him and tell him she’s coming to get my stuff. Or do I go back and get my things myself? I have precious things there that only I can get in order. And I want them. I then have a million and one other places I can stay, should I do that? My return ticket is already booked for July 18. Bastard arsehole, I love his country, I really looked forward to developing a life for myself there as I am so happy there. Am so confused. I am sorry if I have upset any one, if I have done so please know it’s just my ignorance. Also I skyped him for one hour before I came here and he has made me so angry, he was really calm, when I told him he has destroyed me, but there was nothing loving in his tone, only told me how much he loves my body and that he is going crazy having such a beautiful girlfriend. That’s not normal is it? Surely a man wouldn't go crazy having a beautiful girlfriend but would feel proud? Please help.
Jun 20 - 2PM (Reply to #18)
spinning
spinning's picture

Athena, sweetheart,

you MUST GO NC. I know you say it isn't the way for you but if you continue to engage with this psycho, the fog will never clear. The confusion, the head spinning, gut wrenching conflicting thoughts will remain. Please consider stopping all communication. Not responding to his "pretty words," doing nothing. Please think of it as a requirement to get your thoughts straight without any influence from him. This person is disordered. It will never make sense. Your gut is screaming at you that it's bad, bad, bad for you. Please listen. Go NC and read, read, read. I am so sorry this happened to you. You are so sweet and intelligent...he must have seen you coming a mile away. HE DESERVES NOTHING FROM YOU. Please believe that! A big hug to you and good vibes for strength and clarity from, (not) spinning. I MADE A CHOICE TO STOP THE CHAOS AND CONFUSION. SPINNING IS NO LONGER AN OPTION!!

spinning

Jun 20 - 3PM (Reply to #19)
Athena
Athena's picture

Dear Spinning

Thank you for your lovely, gentle message, it really touched me. I don't know if it is because of coming here, my own waking up, being away from the relationship, or all of these and some more, but I have just spoken with him for an hour and I became aware of something new. That I was able to maintain clarity of thought and emotion, my head didn't spin and I didn't hear any 'narcspeak' from him at all. He actually didn't use any pretty words and it was really weird, it was a normal conversation, that two people would have who love each other. I know a million and one replies await this (if only in mind and not in print) but I do trust myself on this one and I need to hear and feel more and more of this, that is what will let me know I am in a normal and healthy relationship. Chances are remote, but at least I realise I suddenly understand what 'normal' relating can be like. Thank you for your kind words and when you wrote 'he deserves nothing from me' that really boosted my self-esteem, it really had an impact. I am so grateful to you. I am sorry for what you have suffered too, very much. Thank you for your kindness. Big hug for you also and an extra one for those lovely positive vibes, I got them :-) Athena xx
Jun 19 - 12PM (Reply to #17)
Hunter
Hunter's picture

You at the beginning stages

You at the beginning stages of this! This man is a monster, yes I have 20 yrs experience in Narcville, I never fully understood the dynamics of the "devil" till recently. You can not get closure from these creatures. You have to accept the insanity and move on! You are ready to do that! Study this disorder and step back from him. You can not expect support if you are not willing to do the work! Freedom from this requires work! You say he gave you love, mine told me he loved me treated me like a queen! Then one day the devil appeared! They have a disorder it's very serious, you can't not fix it. Your head is spinning all right. I'm sorry! How you feel needs to stop and to do that you must not respond! It's a game! It's Fantasy Island and you are the target! I'll pray for your freemdom but you are the gate keeper.
Jun 19 - 11AM (Reply to #6)
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

Brillant Lawyer

If he is such a "brillant lawyer" then he should simply allow access to your possessions. If he is such an honest and decent man, then you tell him your girlfriend (named x) will telephone him. She will come by to collect your stuff. Getting your possessions should be no trouble. And he will want you to have your possessions back. I mean a brillant lawyer would not "steal" your possessions . . . or would he? As for suboxone -- the "withdrawal" is not like methadone or heroin withdrawal. That's the beauty of the drug. And your leaving him did nothing. I thought he wanted you to go? Or he was so doubt ridden. Whatever his angst was. For your information, their drug addiction is always somebody else's fault. Their relapses, their difficulties, etc. All your fault. I have worked with heroin addicts for 12 years now. RUN! RUN! RUN! Forget compassion. Believe me when I say heroin is the only love of his life--using or sober. About love, communication & being brainwashed . . . love is not supposed to hurt. Communication is supposed to communicate something . . . not twisted weirdesses to keep the scene all hazy without any conclusions or clarifications. Just keep some vague holding pattern of keeping a woman on a line while he decides what he wants. He decided: Marriage, you go to his country, you quit your job & live with him. As a "brillant lawyer" he should have understood the simple obligations he was under to follow through when he made such an offer to a woman, & she accepted, and acted upon the agreement with consideration (moving). What he has done is just plain nuts! ANd he has to nerve to be bent up about water drops & crumbs! And your leaving him. Let's get a perspective on this. He's been hurt because YOU left him . . . after all he put you through? Getting your hopes up for marriage & a new life? And the shame of having farewell parties. Now living with mother. Are you allowed to have any feelings? After all your life is all disrupted. Mr. Brillant Lawyer still has the same flat, job & life. And you . . . you are all disrupted & you are back with less than you had at home before you left at his asking. But somehow he's the one who suffers and is more hurt? Girl, you really are under his spell. And this is not love. It's called verbal, emotional & psychological abuse. And he may live in a wonderful country. WHo cares if he lives on the Champs Elysees, makes a zillion Euros a year, and is handsome in those double-breasted suits those Frenchies wear, with those amazingly full heads of hair. Heck. I don't care if he looks like Antonio Banderas. This man is not nice. Separate the man from his country. He will make you more & more miserable. This is happening in the beginning when you are so in love. Gee. I hate to be around after 7 years. Oh, & anything "loving & kind" etc he did. He did it because there was something in it for him. And he was under the illusion of perfection which every narcissist holds in the beginning of their "love affairs." But the object of their love always disappoints & the illusion shattered & the contempt settles in. Get your stuff back with out a harangue, and I will change my present opinion of him. In fact, if he's so brillant a lawyer, he's got money, and he should just pay a professional mover to pack & ship back to you. That's what a gentleman lawyer would do. And I wonder what happened there that you left without taking care of your possessions. Even that tells volumes.
Jun 19 - 12PM (Reply to #7)
Athena
Athena's picture

Dear Agnes, thank you for how you told it,

That's it, thank you. I needed to hear it like you told it. Your words helped me write to my girlfriend, I have given her his cell number and told her to get my shit. You are right, I returned to London with hand-luggage because I want to come back. Even though I also left never wanting to return to him. My mess, I get it. I then wrote to him telling him to expect a call from x, arranging to get my stuff. Now I wait, I feel ashamed that I have had to involve other people. Meantime, bastard has sent me a message saying he's about to call me, and he wouldn't have received my email saying I'm done...... shit he's calling
Jun 20 - 2PM (Reply to #8)
Sparrow
Sparrow's picture

phone call

What was the outcome of the call? Are you ok?