CLOSURE

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#1 Jun 5 - 10PM
wisdomneeded
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CLOSURE

Ok...I am a mom of a 17 year old who was Narcd for 8 months. I guess I call myself second-hand Narcd. The kid is only 19 and I actually fear for the girls he has left to meet :( The entire experience has been horrific. There is not a post on this forum that I have read that can not be applied to this young N. You are all such wonderful brave women and I am so very thankful to have found this forum.

It has been 3 months of (almost) NC for my daughter. I say almost because he has been in the same building she was in. His actual hovering came before the D&D.He really has stayed away since then. But a red flag came up when just last week my daughter justified some of the sexual lies he told her at the beginning of the relationship. Out of the blue she talked about closure.I am concerned that she is trying to use "closure" as an excuse for her to reconnect with the N before she leaves for college in the fall.

She is extremely lonely as he has alienated her from all of the friends they had together when they were dating. ALL OF THEM HAVE TAKEN THE N'S SIDE. This has been a God-awful summer...her last one home before she moves.

With everything I have read I do not believe closure with a N is possible.I understand her wanting it but really would like some ideas from you guys on how she could obtain some type of closure while remaining NC.

Thank you so much...Hugs!!!!

Jun 9 - 7PM
Jannie In the Sun
Jannie In the Sun's picture

Closure

The closure is our own - always! Self love and healing old wounds seems to be a good path from my experience and the stories of others. If you can't have a good loving relationship with a person because they are abusive, how can you can have a good, loving closure? I have had good closure from breakups, but we didn't D&D each other. Going back for closure is giving away her personal power. I am so sorry for your daughter's pain. She needs all the support she can get from people who are good to her so she doesn't scar and go back for more with another. Maybe even some counseling to keep her grounded and help her heal. She is in my prayers!
Jun 9 - 7PM (Reply to #24)
wisdomneeded
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Prayer support

is truly appreciated.My daughter is going to a counselor who knows her stuff about Narcs...I feel truly blessed that we found her. Kids her own age truly do not get what she is going through. You made an excellent point Jannie, when you said "If you can't have a good loving relationship with a person because they are abusive, how can you can have a good, loving closure"? -WOW that is soooooo true. That is a point I will be sharing with her :) Thanks for your post and prayers!
Jun 7 - 8PM
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

There is no closure

Narcs lack empathy and feelings and so they cannot connect even IF they wanted to... The second part to this is THEY don't want to because it is a key trump card in their "control" arsenal. It is about abuse and suffering and torture... Please try to get this through somehow to your daughter. It is a losing battle. It will NEVER come, or he'll use the moment to con her some more and hand her a second dose of D&D worse than before. Sorry she's suffering, but there really is nothing else that can be said. Is there a friend she might listen to? Maybe a friend could be schooled? I'm so sorry you and she are going through this. Hugs!
Jun 8 - 9AM (Reply to #21)
wisdomneeded
wisdomneeded's picture

:(

Thanks Michele! My daughter is on her way to the counselor as I type. She is the same one I am seeing so I know she "GETS IT". Which is unfortunately not true with many counselors. Almost ALL of my daughters friends have sided with the Narc and pretty much think she is a B..ch for not being friendly to him in public! The friends she has left are pretty much - "just get over it". This concerns me as I would like to educate these kids about these kinds of people. I hate to say this but sooner or later they are more than likely gonna run into a NARC. There are more out there than we know....parents should be educated to help their kids navigate this "Path Forward"! I AGREE with every word of your post it is so about Control....HIM taking every friend away is to try to make my 17 year old daughter break:( She is trying to replace friends with work so she has money for the fall. This is a lonely lonely summer-she turns 18 in one month. Lonliness is so much better than the ALTERNATIVE - ANOTHER D&D FROM THAT JERK. But try telling that to a 17 year old girl :( Thanks for the hugs and compassion!
Jun 9 - 11PM (Reply to #22)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Wisdom

18 through perhaps the mid twenties is hard anyway...I remember at 18 I lost some friends too - I think some of it had to do with me being a little different Read: Creative... AND they were doing things they knew I wasn't into. It's an age where naturally we start to branch out anyway? In a way, if she gets some really great help from this counselor, and I so wish she'd give the forum a try - I really think she has a good shot of not repeating this if she can become aware and really school her self on DISORDERS in general. I think it was Smitten Kitten on another post that brought up an EXCELLENT point...in general, regardless...these disordered individuals and there are many flavors are bad news and the more we are educated, I think the more chance we have of avoiding such mistakes in the future. We become aware of a lot of things...and since she's still so very young may not end up jaded. I don't think many of us are jaded so to speak, but for me, in my 40's at this point, I could give a crap if I ever meet anyone again...I'm not looking and I really don't care. I want to deal with me right now and that is all the attention I have. Me and my child. So if that brings any comfort and I've said it before...I WISH I went through this when I was younger because I might have avoided all these years in the fog. Hugs!
Jun 6 - 10AM
Susan32
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Lack of closure

The ex-Psych prof REFUSED closure, even the "we're incompatible" talk... so I ended up forcing it. It's like I was shutting an elevator door... on his arm... with a smile on my face. A NORMAL guy would've apologized, given an explanation behind his actions, and yes, ended it. With Ns/Ps, they don't like endings, happy or not. Leo Tolstoy abandoned Sofia, his wife of 48 years and mother of his 13 children, without so much as a goodbye. When my Narc workplace of 5 years laid me off, all I got from the female Narc manager was "we put up with you"-talk about lack of validation. My morbidly obese Narc coworker had been written up/disciplined numerous times... I hadn't... yet I was the one being let go, and with some insult to top the injury. When it comes to lack of closure, I ran into the female Narc manager at the store last month. She mimicked me, followed me around... when I went to the cashier, she made a run for it. No normal conversation. No closure... but I wasn't expecting any.
Jun 9 - 7PM (Reply to #19)
SoaperGirl
SoaperGirl's picture

Lack of closure

My narc said there was no use in talking about it..no closure for me either. For me, I have had the blessing of having to be tough and resourceful most o fmy life...not relying on others because I was usually let down. The narc was my most recent disappointment. At this point, I don't need closure. Where I'm at now, I'm trying to decide if I still want to try to find a new man, or just let it all go. I've got the matter currently God's hands. I'm hoping he's lining up a good relationship for me. I'm doing a lot of praying and hoping about it all. Can I let the narc go into the past? Without a doubt! Yes indeedy! I sure can! Oh yes, I have had narc bosses. They are like turds that always float to the top. Happily I am retired now, and if I want to get back into a job, I can pick and choose because it will all be my choice whether to stay or go.
Jun 6 - 10AM (Reply to #16)
wisdomneeded
wisdomneeded's picture

WOW!!!

They are truly UNBELIEVABLE.... He doesnt want closure with my daughter because he wants to be able to continue to "use her" if supply runs low elsewhere. I am sorry you had to work with one too :( Ha Ha you used the term "NORMAL guy"! I am not quite sure what one of those looks like. Sorry for sounding so cynical. I guess it is the "mom" in me coming out! The N stripped my daughter of her personality and it is taking months for healing and she is not there yet :/ Just do not want to see her backslide.
Jun 7 - 4PM (Reply to #17)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Narc workplace

At least with the Narc workplace, there was no emotional/romantic investment. And my former Narc boss was openly gay, with a boyfriend. Being in a Narc workplace is disheartening. I'd hear stories about how the couple managing it used to send Christmas notes to all their employees about their ski trips/vacations... but it was deemed tasteless because they pay slightly above minimum wage. Several former employees would come back to visit... but I wasn't allowed to. I'd have to call ahead of time. I was singled out&shamed. It was an incredibly abusive atmosphere... I had coworkers who'd constantly call in sick... but if I came down with food poisoning, I got mocked for it(!!) Truly awful. I found out why the former Narc manager did her routine... I looked in the classifieds. They had a job opening... but it pays less&would only be part time (no benefits) Instead of approaching me in a polite way and saying "We have an opening", giving an explanation, she stalked me around the store, imitated me, and made a fool of HERSELF as she made a run for it.
Jun 8 - 9AM (Reply to #18)
wisdomneeded
wisdomneeded's picture

opened my eyes

I feel pretty stupid...but reading your posts really opened my eyes. I really never even thought about teaching my daughter that she will face this when begins her career (one day)! It is most definately an area I need to talk about. I have focused so much on the "emotional/romantic" because that is what she is in the middle of right now. But truthfully N's are everywhere and the pain they inflict is damaging whether it is romantic or work related. Thanks Susan for sharing!
Jun 6 - 8AM
Goldie
Goldie's picture

You are a very insightful woman

Yes, the "closure" most assuredly is an excuse to reconnect. We will use just about anything to reconnect with our toxic drug. Have to get my things, I need to tell him something, I need closure ect.. You are right, there is no closure with a PD, only more lies. They never come clean. I could never get a straight answer from my father as to why various things went down and I tried for 30 years. I gave up about 10 years ago. The well is dry. When a Narc convinces those around you that it is in fact you not them, that you are bipolar, a psycho, crazy, a bitch, a nag, jealous, a bad girlfriend and all the rest of it, there is a natural inclination to try to prove him wrong. If I can just talk with him and make him understand that I loved him so much, that I am not crazy, please tell your friends the truth. As a woman you want to make things right, set the record straight, and get him to admit that he did in fact love you, that it was not all a game. These things are extremely difficult for anyone to sort out in their brain, let alone a young woman who has little experience under her belt. It is not uncommon for the dust to settle and for the victim to begin to want to remember things differently, he was not that bad, he had his reasons, maybe it was me too, afterall, I am not perfect either. YOu are 100% correct about this type of thinking and the sudden need for closure which is often the prelude to begining an open dialog with the Narc, at which point, it allows him to begin the manipulation process all over again, with how he didn't really mean it, he misses her so much, he'll never do it again, he is so sorry. Or he'll use the tactic of treating her like crap somemore and that set's up an obssession in the victim to try even harder to get him to understand. And thus begins the abuse cycle again and if she is not leaving for college until the fall this gives him the entire summer to suck her back in and then dump her right before she goes back to school, which of course will interfer with her studies. My narc robbed me blind and I had to drop out of school and he never mentioned it again, my well being and future was of zero interest to him. Our children are going to do what they are going to do. I don't know if it would help to explain to her some of the things we have just gone over regarding her future and how he will bring her down again and that they don't do closure, they just do more lies and betrayal. You can only try and hope and pray that she will listen and stay away from him. My best to you with this and let us know what happens and if you need any more support with this. God bless, Goldie
Jun 6 - 10AM (Reply to #14)
wisdomneeded
wisdomneeded's picture

you are so right....

Goldie! Thank you for validating what I have been thinking with this whole "closure" idea. The XN made my daughter think she was going crazy by the end...the thought of her reconnecting in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM...will drive me crazy. We are both seeing a counselor (same counselor just not together) to get through this ordeal! Today was my day :) We are blessed with someone who really does get it. She told me that the N is a terrorist...is closure possible with a terrorist? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! I do share alot with my daughter about NPD. I think it is difficult for her to wrap her head around it. I mean as an ADULT I CAN'T WRAP MY HEAD AROUND IT SOME DAYS! So I can't imagine what it is like for her :/
Jun 6 - 7AM
Deidre40
Deidre40's picture

oh gosh, so young to be

oh gosh, so young to be dealing with this ...i'm sorry! :=( My experience with closure. Whether it's a phone call, letter to the narc, etc. It doesn't ''work.'' It doesn't bring you closure, because the narc doesn't care about our need for closure. They don't even want closure, they want the door left open for future supply. That said. Closure to me, means...finding my own peace again. Forgiving myself for allowing someone to treat me badly. Moving forward with a life, absent of the narc, and any future potential narcs. Finding my own voice in this world. Closure is when you dig deep, and find the strength (through God) to make a new normal for yourself. And shut off avenues where the narc could potentially reach you. That's closure. She will get there. I just think a letter, etc will serve no purpose, and actually...may set her back in her recovery from this. {{hugs}} to you both!!!
Jun 7 - 9AM (Reply to #11)
SHOULD HAVE KNOWN
SHOULD HAVE KNOWN's picture

Deidre Thank you for the

Deidre Thank you for the post. You said everything that I'm feeling. Have a blessed day!
Jun 7 - 10AM (Reply to #12)
Deidre40
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{{{{hugs}}}} to you

{{{{hugs}}}} to you shouldhaveknown!!
Jun 6 - 10AM (Reply to #10)
wisdomneeded
wisdomneeded's picture

So Sweet...

Deidre! Thank you for your post! You are right about forgiving yourself. That has been the most difficult for her. I have followed your story and you should be so proud of where you are at:) I am praying that she finds that closure within herself. As a mom it is so hard to watch her go through this :/
Jun 6 - 7AM
wacaet
wacaet's picture

I had my first D&D experience

I had my first D&D experience at her age. A boy that my family loved and I loved dumped me right before I went to Europe for 3 weeks, out of the blue. He said he just knew I'd cheat on him while I was gone. He told my mom it was because he was going off to college in the fall and couldn't stand the thought of being separated from me. I was so broken hearted I became pretty self-destructive. Keep a close eye on your daughter and try to get her re-involved with her friends if possible. Just knowing you care and you are there for her will make a huge difference (my own mom was oblivious!) I hope that your daughter learns about N's and grows strong and then carries the message to others!
Jun 6 - 10AM (Reply to #8)
wisdomneeded
wisdomneeded's picture

Very similar....

situation. My daughters XN was loved by our family. My daughter told me he had bought a V-day gift for me...by that time, however I was catching on. I told her where he could put the gift. Two days later he destroyed her with a D & D. Thanks for your post...carrying the message to other young women is ESSENTIAL!
Jun 6 - 7AM
Hunter
Hunter's picture

This was me the first time I

This was me the first time I was with Jackass as young girl. Tell her to join some clubs, even if she doesn't know one person, get on with the life a 19 year old. WAHOOOOOOOO to be 19. Screw him. Tell her to find what she likes and never to take shit from any man ever. Tell her Hunter Said
Jun 6 - 9AM (Reply to #6)
wisdomneeded
wisdomneeded's picture

I LOVE IT.....

"Tell her to find what she likes and never to take shit from any man ever". That was Great, Hunter... :))))
Jun 5 - 11PM
Littleone
Littleone's picture

I feel for you and your

I feel for you and your daughter. It would be really rough dealing with this at 19 and even more rough because her friends have turned on her. Please tell her from me that they are not her true friends any way and she will meet some amazing people when she goes off to college. Her life awaits her! Once she's at college she won't look back, him and those people truly won't matter anymore. In a way it's a good thing she's been exposed to this so young, she will hopefully make some great life choices when she has finished healing. As for her wanting 'closure' by seeing him, NO NO NO NO!! He will never give her what she needs. He will not validate, be sorry or want to change. He can't. It's impossible for him. The only closure she will get is within herself. Time and NC are unfortunately the only things that will give her that.
Jun 5 - 11PM (Reply to #4)
wisdomneeded
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you are so right...

thank you for helping me to focus on her future and not her past...once she is away at college this will be a distant memory. I agree closure has got to come from within....
Jun 5 - 10PM
Done sourcing
Done sourcing's picture

Closure

I agree that asking for/or feeling the need for a final meeting to get closure can be a trick played by ones ego to have a reason to see the narc once againm hoping beyond hope that the narc will magically see their error, have an awakening, and jump up and beg for forgiveness, spout platitudes of love and acceptance, and all will live in bliss happily ever after...could happen, wanna buy some cheap land? There is no closure with a person with a personality disorder. Our rules, systems, morals, sense of propriety, attitudes, empathy, sense of fairness, etc do not apply to them. They are disordered, seems to be degrees of sickness, but it just doesn't work out with these narcs. I am an alcoholic, and the only solution that works is abstinence, complete and total abstinence. Abstinence from the narc is the only thing that works, we call it no contact, period. How hard to live a sober life if I drank every so often, it just doesn't work that way, at all. It took awhile for me to get to a bottom sufficient enough for me to have that moment of clarity, and to realize that any booze was too much. One is too man, and ten is not enough. Back to narcs...they are toxic...they are the booze, we are the drunks...we will be done when we have that moment of clarity when we see the truth, that it will never be good again, and that only we can move past it. Magical thinking that the narc will change must be smashed, and I hope and pray we all get that awareness sooner rather than later. Chris
Jun 5 - 11PM (Reply to #2)
wisdomneeded
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my dad

was an alcoholic so your analogy touched me deeply. Complete abstinence is the only way. I did see this relationship between the Narc and my daughter as an addiction. "Magical thinking" is the perfect way to describe what she went through for months. Each time they broke up she "magically" thought she could fix him and go back. Really he was the booze and she was the drunk.... WOW! Alot to think about - thank you!