Crazymaking

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#1 Apr 19 - 2PM
Alibi_10
Alibi_10's picture

Crazymaking

As I try to fight my way out of the fog, I have reflected a lot on the things I found baffling, truly baffling - and I wondered if other people wondered "What just happened there?". The N could contradict himself many times even in one sentence.

Some things that spring to mind:

He once told me, when I got upset after hours of silent treatment that everyone can choose how to react, and I should have reacted differently. But during one of his rages (all I had done was ask him what time to expect him at my house) - he slammed the phone down on me, then called back to apologise, but said that he was angry because I had made him feel under pressure, and he didn't WANT to react like that, but had no choice!!

Having screamed at me to stop crying after another of his rages (because he didn't care if I cried or not), another time when I tried to react calmly, he said I was a robot with no emotions, and he would prefer it if I cried !!

He then went on to say that I was weak, and he would prefer to be with someone who stood up to him, so when I stood up to him - he screamed at me not to challenge him !!

He said in the same sentence that I was too laid back, then that I was too highly strung, that I was too sensitive, then I was insensitive, that I was too cautious, then i was tactless.

I tried to use irony - saying "Oh dear, I haven't got too much going for me ", and he took me literally, saying I needed psychological help and I would always be on my own because I couldn't relate properly to anyone. (Pot meet Kettle, I think!).

These are just a few examples, there are hundreds more from this freak. I still feel as if I was run over by a train, because I was so conned by him. Someone said (maybe here) that if someone tells you who they are, believe them.

What part of "I'm a predator", "Can we just be friends?" etc did I not hear.

Would be interested to know if anyone else suffered nonsense like this and actually believed that THEY were the crazy one?

Apr 27 - 4PM
Done sourcing
Done sourcing's picture

Narc salad from 2011...nothing changes with narcspeak!

Apr 20 - 5AM
carol24
carol24's picture

Thought I was mad.

With mine, I can remember him being very insecure at times when I was strong and doing things (very subtle things - so subtle that it's very hard to pinpoint them) to make me more dependent on him. But when I was in need of support and actually felt I wanted to be able to depend on him he hated it and he told me as much when we split up. I also remember him being extremely impulsive, saying very dramatic things and then saying the opposite a short time later. E.g. He told me that he wanted to get engaged to me by a certain date and then never asked me but couldn't explain why. He also said that it was such a relief to know that he'd met the right person for him and to know that he would never have to split up with anyone again. Then, within a couple of months of saying this to me, he ended our relationship telling me that he'd realised that he wasn't meant to be with anyone and that he never wanted to go out with anyone again. Within a short space of time I heard he had a new girlfriend. Then they split up and he tried to get back in touch with me again. I ignored him and then he started telling my friends that I was "the love of his life" and that he wished he had married me. I know this is different to what you've described because the inconsistent things that yours said were about you and in my case they were describing his "feelings" but the principle is the same. They do it a) bcause they are impulsive and don't have thoughts/feelings that are sustainable, and b) as a way of gaining control. Erratic behaviour like this makes them so unpredictable that we have no way of knowing whether us saying or doing something will result in a positive or a negative reaction from him. It is this that makes us "walk on eggshells" (a frequently used phrase on this forum). We refrain from being ourselves for fear of being given the silent treatament for doing something wrong. We restrict our conversation, not daring to say what we are truly thinking in case it might be the wrong thing to say and lead to "punishment" (e.g. withdrawing emotionally or physically abandonment whilst knowing that this will cause us stress). This feeling of uncertainty keeps us in a heightened state of anxiety at all times which is what leads us to the feeling of "madness". He lets us know whether our behaviour was right or wrong, therefore retaining control over us at all times. He makes us dependent on him so that we will never dare to abandon him. Then he despises us for our neediness which again makes us feel that we "lost control of ourselves" and are therefore "mad". I definately felt as if I was going mad during the relationship and I was ashamed of this at the time which prevented me from discussing my worries with friends and family. Abusers rely on this kind of secrecy. In fact, it wasn't until I started seeing a good therapist and discovered the meaning of NPD that I really began to make sense of it all and to feel sane again. That's when the anger kicks in - the point where you suddenly realise that he's not "Prince Charming" and that you were abused.
Apr 20 - 2AM
Cherry12
Cherry12's picture

I begun to think I was crazy.

He now claims to have panic attacks. And it makes me remember when he constantly told me when I was really worried about our future, and our "common goals", that I have panic illness and I should really seek help. When he was raging about minor things like accidentally breaking a glass, or not getting maximum points for some reason in a computer game, or not having to go to a job interview, I always tried to comfort him, and calm him. And that was always the time when he stomped into my heart. Once, I asked him whether he hurt me intentionally, and he said yes. I asked him why, and he told me it was because I was there. In the end(?) of our relationship (we still havent ended it officially), I was diagnosed with manic depression. So well, I guess I ended up crazy.
Apr 19 - 11PM
TLSM
TLSM's picture

Same!!!

Sounds like the freak I knew! He also had Borderline PD and I'm no Dr., but I see traits of that in your freak too. Regardless, they are all animals. Smelly, gross, slimey animals.
Apr 19 - 5PM
really
really's picture

All the same stuff, I swear!

All the same stuff, I swear! I heard all of that and more. I was too sensitive, so I stopped reacting and then I didn't care. I never stopped by his house, so I did and he was rude so I left. I'd accomplish something and he'd ignore it, but if I didn't mention it, then he'd recognize me for it. It goes on and on and on. Who does this?!?!! Well, we all know that they all do! Eventually, I stopped saying much of anything and apologizing for whatever I did say. He made me so paranoid of saying or acting on anything that it has taken a long time to correct that behavior and sometimes I still falter. ARGH!!!!!!
Apr 19 - 9PM (Reply to #10)
Deidre40
Deidre40's picture

I can so relate! I think they

I can so relate! I think they do this because they want us to be like wind up dolls...to respond the way prefer. I remember all of this crazymaking with the guy I dated in college...and the guy I just broke it off with...and it's maddening. Very stressful. I find it fascinating that our narcs...all individual men...living in different towns...states...countries even...have these parallels.
Apr 19 - 4PM
Steph
Steph's picture

Oh yes, indeed. Thanks for

Oh yes, indeed. Thanks for sharing these examples.....his words to you COMPLETELY and accurately show how warped they are. The contradictions, "the damned if you do, damned if you don't thing", the double standard of what applies to you doesn't apply to them etc....crazymaking indeed! No matter what we do or don't do...with them it's always wrong. Can't win. I was wrong if I took a certain route to his house, so the next time I'd follow his advice and go the route he thought was quicker...and then i'd get a "why did you go that way, you should have went the other way!" .....and mindboggled me thought, "ya why DID i go that way, man I'm dumb." Or he'd get mad if I went out with friends so I then felt like I shouldn't go out with friends...and then he told me that it seems like I never want to do anything with my time not spent with him. Actually, after reading your post, I remembered I was once involved with an on-line dating site briefly.....before I met last N.....anyways, this one guy who I now know was a complete narc, would do this crazymaking talk....ON MSN.....he would say something, then deny saying it altogether.....and I HAD IT IN WRITING what he said...yet, I still questioned myself lol It's absurd!
Apr 19 - 3PM
OnlyChild49 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Can't Win - Small Example!!

Your post reminded me of something that is minor, but not really!! It's the principal of the thing. My dog didn't like the N and barked a lot when he came into my home. One time, the N corrected the dog which was ok altho I don't think it was his place (I believe he was jealous of the dog as I gave it alot of attention). Anyway, I was working in the kitchen at the time slicing a banana. I usually give a piece to my dog. I did and the N went into a tizzy. And then I felt the need to apologize saying to N I was on automatic - which I was. Afterward it came to me - why am I apologizing to him? It's my dog, my home, my banana and if I want to give the dog something, I will!! It was like I was going against him or being disloyal. Gosh, I would have hated to be his wife and/or kids. No wonder his 30 something son won't speak to him!! I still can't believe I felt I should apologize!!! He was trying to start something AGAIN!! Grrrr!!
Apr 19 - 2PM
Deidre40
Deidre40's picture

Yes, I went through very

Yes, I went through very similar instances. What you describe sounds most like a narc I dated back in college. He would contradict a lot. This latest guy--he did the crazymaking stuff too. I found the crazymaking to be the worst of all the ''behaviors.'' Hanging the phone up on me constantly, was a close second. I don't miss any of this...it really became the whole relationship after a while. Me walking on eggshells. Did you just break up w/him?
Apr 19 - 2PM (Reply to #6)
Alibi_10
Alibi_10's picture

Crazymaking

Deirdre, We split up last year - but the 'friends' thing dragged on and on till after Christmas, and he was just as bad. I felt sorry for him for a long time because he had a terrible childhood, but he was making me ill. My family and friends were getting worried because I genuinely believed I was all the things he said I was. He LOVED to play amateur psychologist, and although he would never talk about it - I think he has definitely had some treatment in the past. But his opinion was that he had treated me very well and I was an unstable, volatile person who cared too much about him and should go out and get a life of my own! The silly thing was that I have many friends (although they ALL hated him), a good job and lots of interests, but he made fun of all of that and tried to get me to stop doing the things I love, then moaned that I wasn't doing them! He moaned when my friends texted me, so I used to text back when I was at the loo - then he said "You should see more of your friends and not rely on me!!" You see? Total contradictions day after day ... I used to feel physically exhausted whenever he left. However bad it feels now, I would rather be alone for the rest of my life than have to sit there seething (aching to point out that he has contradicted himself for the hundreth time) or scared (watching those cold black soulless eyes) or bored (listening to stories about his day when he never even asked how mine was). Yes - walking on eggshells, I guess every single person on here knows what that is like.
Apr 19 - 2PM
Hunter
Hunter's picture

Same guy different body!

Same guy different body! They are all the same, liars, users & losers! It's ok to feel hurt, shocked, but you need to keep pushing to find you again! To Win the Narc game you must erase them and become stronger than you were before! Stay Strong Idealk
Apr 19 - 2PM
spinning
spinning's picture

Alibi, there was so much

crazymaking with the Borderline I was involved with that for the longest time I couldn't even think straight. Some of your examples reminded me so much of what happened to me I'd swear we were with the same person... ...and yes, I began to feel that I was in fact crazy... ...and he began to count on that... ...and after reading this and 5.5 months NC I am practically JUMPING FOR JOY that I no longer have to deal with it and that I see it for what it is: CRAZYNESS FROM A DISTURBED INDIVIDUAL!! I hope you are doing well, Alibi. I am making strides. I send you a hug and good vibes. sincerely (think I've finally stopped) spinning...AND IT DOESN'T EVEN REMOTELY FEEL CRAZY!!!

spinning

Apr 19 - 8PM (Reply to #2)
HopeAgain
HopeAgain's picture

My psycho would CONSTANTLY

My psycho would CONSTANTLY scream at me: "It's a reaction to an action!!!!!!!!". Yep, it was all me! They drive us to the edge of our sanity. I didn't know what the hell reality was anymore. I spent countless hours, days, nights obsessing over what I did wrong and how I could fix myself so I'd stop "pushing him away" and "make him want to see me" (WTF???). It's such a freeing moment when you finally grasp it wasn't you at all. Not even for a split second! Even more freeing is when we tell them to go F themselves once and for all!
Apr 20 - 4PM (Reply to #3)
healing NZ
healing NZ's picture

"It's a reaction to an action!"

OMG - they say the same things don't they?!! Blaming you for THEIR outrageous behaviour. God I wish I had found this site when I was in it. He had me feeling totally crazy - called me a psychopath and delusional. He was always throwing back the things I had said to him, only making them worse. I once said "you're not an easy person to live with" to which he replied "then why do you stay?". I said "because I love you" and he turned away in disgust. A few weeks later he screamed at me "you're IMPOSSIBLE to live with" ... something I know is not true (now). Once I twigged to the throwing back of words, I realised that the words psychopath and delusional were probably thrown at him by one of his two ex-wives. But I can SO relate to being told it's a reaction to an action. Yet they never consider that your action was actually a reaction to their behaviour in the first place. And don't EVER try to point that out!!! The crazy cycle just escalates.