Why Won't This End? by Sandra Brown, MA

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#1 Jun 11 - 9PM
Anonymous (not verified)
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Why Won't This End? by Sandra Brown, MA

We began talking about the ongoing battles with pathologicals-whether it is a break up, move out, divorce, property settlement, mediation, child custody, or the ever-revolving door of litigious events with law enforcement or the legal system. By nature of the pathology, they are MORE likely to allege falsified abuse, stalk the other parent, sue, to continue to sue, to not settle, to refuse mediation services, to go to court over things like "his shoes are dirty therefore this is parental neglect," to reject every child evaluator, reject every child therapist, reject every child pediatrician, reject every child's school choice.

They gaslight situations suggesting things have happened that didn't, nor can they be proved they did or did not happen. (Classic gaslighting is associated with NPDs, ASPDs, socio/psychopaths). They are MORE likely to need court monitored visits after exchange antics which now require 'a babysitter' for their behavior and yet reject every monitor chosen, every center selected, or will find centers that are the farthest away in the most dangerous areas to ask the other parent to bring the child to.

They also do not follow through on child support payments; other medical needs the children may have, does not pay their share of attorney and court fees. They use up enormous legal resources which has given them their own title within the legal system known as 'High Conflict Person' which eventually becomes a 'High Conflict Case' for you and for them. A 'typical' legal scenario (provided by Bill Eddy http://www.billeddy.com/articles/vol2_no1_art4.htm) is:

A Petition is filed, and then there are countless emergency court hearings, restraining orders, restricted visitation, and/or residence exclusion, many filing for temporary hearings on custody, visitation, child support, and spousal support.

Then there is the unending filing for many declarations for hearing, getting an evaluator appointed, preparing documentation for evaluators/court (often done multiple times), serving numerous subpoenas, taking lists and lists of depositions, going thru the demand for documentations, attending multiple temporary hearings. Now they have received the trial only to have delays that can go on for years, disputes over evaluators' reports and other unending other objections.

Then begins the continuous disputes over trial court orders, motions for reconsideration, etc. Sprinkled through out are the constant allegations to child services of abuse and neglect, the rallying of others to support the allegations, and the utter exhaustion of the child services departments with the constant threats of suing them, etc. Once/if after all these enormous amount of time, money, energy is and the divorce is granted, then there is the ongoing post divorce hearings with the constant modification requests, custody battles, alleging new relationships which are bad for the children, failed relationships wit others bringing in new conflicts, drama and trauma.

It's easy to see that this kind of behavior is what is shutting down our court systems and why it's hard to get simple things done. 90% of the problems are being produced by a small % of the people who have the largest % of mental health and pathology disorders. In fact, it is cases like THESE that indicate to professionals working on these cases that there is in fact, pathology present. They have already been named 'High Conflict Persons' to help identify the partner who is likely to keep producing litigious insanity. It has taken a while for all the professional systems involved in cases like these to come to understand what behavior like this IS attached to: chronic and unrelenting pathology.

For many years euphemisms have been used for these people "difficult cases" "pain in the butt cases" "problematic" instead of understanding these ARE the behaviors associated with pathological conditions. Pathology is simply being what it is---in the relationship, in the parenting, in the courts. It holds its mask in place for a while but then it always slips where other professionals are able to identify the behaviors and recognize the pathology. This is the unification of how Public Pathology Awareness is beginning to allow systems involved with pathologicals to more easily identify them by their universal and consistent behaviors, in and out of court.

The Institute's goal is to bring training about these consistent and universal behaviors to therapists, coaches, the legal system, child evaluators, monitors, child therapists, Minor's Counsel, and social service workers. 'Why' high conflict persons act this way has everything to do with the disorder itself. When we understand pathology and its neuro-implications as well, we can not only know what behaviors go with which disorders but why. We can learn to predict the kinds of known behaviors and antics that go with pathological disorders-- in child rearing, in court proceedings, and in relationship endings.

Those behaviors include imperative impulsivity, loophole lying, gaming gaslighting, reliable revenge, the prevalent projecting, and legendary legal litany of cases. Normal people don't do this in court, in relationship, in life. It is the glaring opposites that almost always give us the best indicator that what is happening is not what other people do, behave, or believe. So, ours shouldn't be to ask 'why' pathologicals do this. It's to say 'why not?' after all, that's how they are wired.

http://www.saferelationshipsmagazine.com

Mar 31 - 8PM
Barbara (not verified)
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Why Won't This End?

READ TOP POST ~~~~~~~~~ The world is a dangerous place, not only because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing. - Albert Einstein Visit My Info. Website for Abuse Victims
Nov 13 - 7AM
Barbara (not verified)
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why won't he just leave me alone?

READ TOP POST ~~~~~~~~~~~~ My Abuse Information Site Online Coaching & Help
Sep 11 - 4PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

why won't this end?

SEE TOP POST ~~~~~~~~~~~~ CLICK HERE: Articles & information for Narc Victims - Updated Daily "As soon as you feel that crazy sense of walking on eggshells, fending off N-rage, stop. Walk away." - Dr. M. Beck
Aug 16 - 8PM
cupcake (not verified)
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N's and their disorded memories

Hi guys - I was reading some posts and articles about N's and their delusions and disorded memories. Has anyone had any experience of this or can share something to help me? I don't fully understand how their brains work other than the Jekyll and Hyde. I read that someone's N called the police on them, tried to have them charged (with no evidence it got dismissed) then a year later he tried to call her again and pretended like nothing happened and everything between them was great. Does this situation sound correct? My N forgot that 3 years ago I slapped him in the face for being sleazy (he told me to 'suck it' and I slapped him and left his house). He never brought that situation up - has he forgotten about that? Or does he just pretend like it didn't happen?
Aug 16 - 8PM (Reply to #6)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

disordered memories? no - pathological mind

he can do any number of things... his reality changes moment by moment and is whatever he wants it to be you CAN NOT figure out how a pathological mind works if you are normal. You just CAN'T. And thank God for that. http://www.lisaescott.com/2009/07/30/narcissists-exploit-everyone-maintain-their-delusions http://www.lisaescott.com/2009/06/07/confusion-being-idealized-completely-devalued-narcissist http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2007/11/lets-play-pretend.html http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2007/02/narcissists-script.html http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2007/07/danger-of-ascribing-normal-human.html http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2006/10/acting-like-it-didnt-happen.html They are NOT HUMAN. NOT HUMAN. You can NEVER figure them out and trust me - you don't want to. Their 'reality' changes every minute to what they want. They believe their own lies and never remember or own up to anything they say or do. Their lives, unlike ours, have NO continuity. Reality & truth are flexible things to them - MEANT to be twisted. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ CLICK HERE: Articles & information for abuse victims - Updated Daily "Some women can fake an orgasm. But some men can fake an entire relationship!" - Sharon Stone
Jan 14 - 5PM (Reply to #18)
Sinead
Sinead's picture

But how do you stop them?

I get it about them being relentless, I'm dealing with it now and it is hell, I'm being worn down constantly, short of killing them what is there we can do? The court system isn't on our side :(
Jan 14 - 5PM (Reply to #19)
Barbara (not verified)
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Sinead

make all contact through your lawyer only. continue to document their behavior (date time - what was said) BUSINESS ONLY. Be a robot if you have to interact. NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO OR SAY TO GET A RISE OUT OF YOU. No emotional interaction. Just the facts - time place date etc. ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website
Jan 14 - 5PM (Reply to #20)
Sinead
Sinead's picture

Oh that already happens

We are separated in courts, the judge even came to see me once when I was in a separate room, this is due to the restraining order. I'm still finding it hard to be unemotional when recalling events as they really are traumatic and it is hard with the new memories that are coming back of things I blocked. Everything is through courts, solicitor etc, I just feel ripped apart, I state what happened, my daughter does too, although they refuse to listen as she's under-aged, he comes up with some illogical response and that is completely acceptable and we are back to it never happened! I am starting to feel like I live in the court room now, I know this is still PTSD affecting me, they just really don't stop, I even got stopped in town by one of his new primary supplies (new load of students in town) who asked my daughter where her daddy was. That ripped me apart for days! Now I am looking into moving town, they just don't give up, it's completely insane, I keep fearing it will be the rest of my life like this :(
Jan 14 - 5PM (Reply to #21)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Sinead

journal keep track I'd bet he's NOT writing it all down bring your journal to court with you. Be firm. He states that didn't happen - you stick to (CALMLY) it did and he is a liar. ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website
Jan 14 - 6PM (Reply to #22)
Sinead
Sinead's picture

Thanks

I will keep going, well I have to, I have my daughter's life at stake, I do journal anyway, he allegedly does but I guess that is his own history
Jan 14 - 6PM (Reply to #23)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Sinead

can you get signed affidavits from friends & family that back up what you say? ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website
Jan 15 - 4PM (Reply to #24)
Sinead
Sinead's picture

I'm working on my family

As they witnessed a lot of injuries, they are not supportive though and I get the "We told you so" and "well if you'd reported him when we said to then you wouldn't be in this mess now" But the real serious incidents I kept quiet and kind of blocked as they happened. It doesn't help that I have medical training and self treated a hell of a lot of injuries. For the criminal case the CPS refuse to use old evidence (including a hospital record, GP records, photos). It's a pathetic system. For the family case I can use all evidence and I have tried as much as I can.
Aug 17 - 1AM (Reply to #11)
insectt (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

you're right

we just can't figure them out because they don't think like normal people. I have to keep reminding myself of this. over and over and over again. And I really belive the statement that their 'reality' changes every minute. In the course of 8 months my N told me he would marry me if we were in vegas in January. Another girl had his baby in February. He was going to be a family man and have the baby and baby's momma move in with him in March. April he started seeing another girl. May, he met yet another girl, who apparently 'knocked his socks off'. So much in fact that he dumped his baby's momma, stopped being my friend dumped girl he met in April and declared this NEW girl is 'The One' he will 'change for and be monogomous with.' So, he has been with NEW GIRL for a few months now, and he seems to be all bliss and bells. I guess we will see what his reality is next month.
Sep 12 - 10PM (Reply to #17)
NanC (not verified)
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They are all alike. My x N

They are all alike. My x N "left me" after 7 yrs & met a girl that was "the one that brought out the best in him". She saw his true colors & dumped him. Within a month he had a new gf that "brought out the best in him" too. He said he never said that about the first one. I kno what he said, i didn't make it up! He claims i brought out the worst. I think, you like me, are waiting for this gf to dump them. I think we just want confirmation that it really wasn't us with the problem! They are untolerable, no one will be able to stand them for too long!
Aug 17 - 2AM (Reply to #12)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

insectt - more

who knows - who cares... sooner or later she'll be yesterday's news and he'll have a new flavor of the month. Stop worrying about it and be glad you're getting out. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ CLICK HERE: Articles & information for abuse victims - Updated Daily "Some women can fake an orgasm. But some men can fake an entire relationship!" - Sharon Stone
Aug 17 - 4PM (Reply to #13)
insectt (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Thanks

That's why I come here. I KNOW he isn't going to change. I really, really know this. I believe everything about his pathology. Sometimes doubt creeps in my mind, though. That's why I come here and vent...instead of trying to contact him.
Aug 17 - 8PM (Reply to #14)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

insectt

doubt IMPLANTED by HIM! are you in counseling?? ~~~~~~~~~~~~ CLICK HERE: Articles & information for abuse victims - Updated Daily "Some women can fake an orgasm. But some men can fake an entire relationship!" - Sharon Stone
Aug 17 - 8PM (Reply to #15)
insectt (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

No

No, I am not in counseling. I guess I thought I could do this by myself. That someone else's mind was not stronger than mine. I almost feel awkward saying "I know this person is no good. But yet, I have obsessive thoughts about him. It seems like if I am AWARE of the situation, I should be able to fix it myself.
Aug 17 - 8PM (Reply to #16)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

insectt - you are dead wrong about that

that's dead wrong. you were dealing with a PATHOLOGICAL and this is not a normal breakup - there's a lot of mind control, imbedded thoughts & commands and brainwashing to deprogram from. YOU CAN NOT, I repeat NOT do this alone. If you do - you have a good chance of making the PTSD (where the obsessive thoughts stem from) a PERMANENT fixture. Trust me, I know from personal experience... Find a therapist who GETS it about pathologicals. You might want to start here. They are WELL BELOW COST: http://saferelationshipsmagazine.com/counseling-ctr/a-path-to-recovery-start-here or: http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/07/13/low-cost-counseling CALL TOMORROW. Promise me. http://howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com/2008/07/ptsd-as-trauma-disorder-not-psychiatric.html http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/04/18/youve-been-brainwashed-part-i http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/03/20/cognitive-dissonance-obsessional-thoughts http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/08/02/ptsd-10-clues-you-are-your-own-worst-enemy You can NOT do this by yourself. Just won't truly happen. This says more about how EVIL they are than you being WEAK. Hypnosis is easier the more intelligent the subject is - did you know that? Did you know that more than 85% of Narc Victims are professional, highly educated women - many are counselors, lawyers, nurses, doctors and so on... And if the therapist uses the word CODEPENDENT or tells you you ENABLED the abuse - leave and find a new one. I went thru a few before I found one that got it! ~~~~~~~~~~~~ CLICK HERE: Articles & information for abuse victims - Updated Daily "Some women can fake an orgasm. But some men can fake an entire relationship!" - Sharon Stone
Aug 16 - 9PM (Reply to #7)
cupcake (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

So is it possible he has

So is it possible he has forgotten about the slapping in the face? He acts like he has - I don't know if in his mind though that never happened?
Aug 16 - 9PM (Reply to #8)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

who knows???? Even HE doesn't

narcs have brains like Etch-A-Sketches. MRI, PET scans, SPec-T scans - all show various gray matter and portions of the brain don't work, or aren't even there. Who knows if he remembers it or not. Only he cares... and if its to HIS ADVANTAGE to forget... he forgets... if it becomes advantageous for him to remember... he will remember... depending on date, time, who's around, wind speed, weather, what color the room is, what he had for lunch... it's that arbitrary & capricious ~~~~~~~~~~~~ CLICK HERE: Articles & information for abuse victims - Updated Daily "Some women can fake an orgasm. But some men can fake an entire relationship!" - Sharon Stone
Aug 16 - 11PM (Reply to #9)
neveragain
neveragain's picture

My Ex-N Didn't Remember a "Let's Start Over Card" He Gave Me!

I had been dating my ex-N for about 9 months...we had an argument and he said he wanted to take a "break". I went to my best friends wedding in Jamaica. When I came back...he came over with a "Let's Start Over Card" from Hallmark. Fast forward to over two years later. I said, "Remember when you gave me that card about starting over?" He's like, "What card?". I said, "You know...after I went to my best friends wedding..and I came back....and you came over....and you gave me this card!" He's all, "What card?" I showed him the card. He didn't REMEMBER it....he seriously didn't remember giving me that card. We had had a HUGE fight right before that. His best friend at the time (but now doesn't even talk to him) said that the reason he doesn't remember it is because someone else (another friend of his) told him to give it to me and it wasn't his idea...that THAT'S why he doesn't remember it. Remember....Narcissist "borrow" their ideas, thoughts, posturing, opinions and personna's from OTHER PEOPLE. They do not know how to be a real person. neveragain
Aug 16 - 11PM (Reply to #10)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

savants of human behavior

Lisa & I talked about this on the radio show this week: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/allabouthim they are NOT HUMAN they literally are VAMPIRES of people http://howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com/2008/08/pathological-child-prodigy-savant-of.html ~~~~~~~~~~~~ CLICK HERE: Articles & information for abuse victims - Updated Daily "Some women can fake an orgasm. But some men can fake an entire relationship!" - Sharon Stone
Aug 16 - 7PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

why won't he leave me alone?

SEE TOP POST ~~~~~~~~~~~~ CLICK HERE: Articles & information for abuse victims - Updated Daily "Some women can fake an orgasm. But some men can fake an entire relationship!" - Sharon Stone
Aug 11 - 5PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

why won't this end?

SEE TOP POST ~~~~~~~~~~~~ CLICK HERE: Articles & information for abuse victims - Updated Daily "Some women can fake an orgasm. But some men can fake an entire relationship!" - Sharon Stone
Jul 21 - 1PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

the pain doesn't stop

SEE TOP POST ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Articles & information for abuse victims - Updated Daily Online Coaching for Victims of Narcissists/ Psychopaths
Jan 14 - 7AM (Reply to #2)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

why doesn't this stop? why won't he go away?

READ THE TOP POST ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website