Why the Narcissist Can Dish it out, but Can't Take It

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#1 Oct 15 - 1PM

Lisa E. Scott

Why the Narcissist Can Dish it out, but Can't Take It

This is an excellent article from "Psychology Today" that helps us understand how the narcissist perpetuates his own worst fear - being alone - by the way he responds to the people in his life who care about him the most.

"Blaming and excessively criticizing others to shore up an extraordinarily vulnerable ego--and reacting antagonistically in the face of anything regarded as critical of themselves--they keep others at a distance that renders any true intimacy impossible. The way they "set things up" in relationships, particularly intimate relationships, makes their self-created dilemma unsolvable."

This does not give us permission to feel sorry for them. Only serves to help further our UNDERSTANDING of why narcissists behave the way they do and why we must stay away to protect our own sanity.

Leon Seltzer sums it up perfectly:
"So they remain emotionally and spiritually unfulfilled, hungry for a nebulous something they can't even conceive. Lacking the ego strength that would allow them to be genuinely vulnerable to others--the prerequisite for the intimacy they secretly long for--their relationships demonstrate a level of detachment not entirely dissimilar from their original so-hurtful disconnection from their parents. But this time they're not just the victim but the 'perpetrator,' too.
~ Leon F. Seltzer, Ph.D

Please take a read!

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolution-the-self/201110/the-narcis...

by Leon F. Seltzer, Ph.D

#2 Oct 20 - 12AM

meik11

Wow I cried while reading

Wow I cried while reading this because I could see him in every word of that article. His lack of empathy and the way he would verbally try to cut you like a knife if he felt the slightest bit of critisism. There were times when I could feel him holding back and it seemed as though he really wanted/needed intimacy but he would quickly snap out of it. This whole thing is so confusing because given their disorder and ability to pretend you never know what part of the relationship was real or fake or if any was real. It makes me sad to think about all the time I spent trying to get him to love me back or even acknowledge my love for him. Great article, helped me understand him a bit more...

#3 Oct 19 - 12PM

TNR1

What is so fascinating to me

What is so fascinating to me is how children who have a shared experience of a demanding or ignoring parent can turn out so different. I would say that both my parents lacked empathy and the way that I tried to please them was to try to understand things from their perspective. I became highly empathetic in order to try to win their love. To me, it is almost like we are parts of a chain....those of us who become highly empathetic in the face of a parent who is highly critical or ignoring...and those who end up as Narcissists. For both, the coming together is more about trying to fix a wound from childhood. I know that when I met Mr. N, it sure felt like he would be the answer/the hope to the hole in my heart. I'm sure for him there was something of a similiar perspective (although more selfish one). This is why I think it is so important that we look into ourselves to see what drew us to the Narc to begin with and begin the healing process. Unfortunately there is no fixing that wound...but being aware of what drives the compulsion to try to fix it will serve us in allowing us to be a lot clearer about a perspective relationship that is wrong for us.

#4 Oct 19 - 5PM (Reply to #25)

janine

Interesting point

I have been wondering about that for ages as well. The only thing I've come up with is that perhaps a person with more of a feeling function might turn into an empath and the one with a stronger thinking function could be more prone to NPD. That's just a guess from having studied personality types. Brain science will soon be able to give a better explanation. I've been thinking though that while both N and I had plenty of emotional abuse back home, had I been beaten up on a regular base, my feelings might have shut down from self-protection as well. The sad thing is that with NPD they did that to a point of no return. Unpopular as it might be here, I do feel pity for Narcs. I saw what my Narc grandmother did to my father and how that phony icy-cold mother of my guy treated her son. I've been very close to both these men, watched them suffer and, yes, take it out on others. We are blessed that we can feel, love and have a real life. We know our weak points including our strong empathy and can make sure to not necessarily act on it. But there is no cure for NPD. Instead there is misery, fear and dread.

#5 Oct 19 - 10AM

Hopeful36

Pretty incredible that the

Pretty incredible that the article describes him so well. So sad. I did not know much about my narcs family or growing up but I assume there had to be something. I have read comments on an article written in the local news website about him that were not favorable. It was an announcement of being selected for the board of a very large non-profit group. Many of the comments were about getting things handed to him on a silver platter and he will never be as successful as his father-he'll always be in his shadows. So on and so on. I always knew he couldn't except my love for him. I would say "why won't you let me love you....just accept it." I can go line by line in the article and my narcs face is right next to it. Thank you so much for sharing.

#6 Oct 18 - 7PM

Susan32

How to handle disagreement

I've been reflecting lately, when it comes to my calling in life. I realized how many *accusations* my parents would love to launch my way whenever I disagreed. When my sister and I disagreed with my mother, my mother accused my sister and I of "conspiring against her." She went into a full-on tirade. When I disagreed with my father on Intelligent Design, he broke Godwin's Law. (When you can't find a good argument, launch a conversation-killing accusation) When I disagreed with my mother on LGBT rights, my mother accused me of being a lesbian. I've NEVER told my mother I voted NO on Prop.8 here in California, because I know what she'd accuse me of. This memory still sticks vividly in my mind:I wrote a sad poem in high school. I was feeling melancholy. My mother angrily accused me of being immoral. I told her I was only expressing MY feelings. I ended up being sadder than I was before. During the final D&D, the ex-Psych prof would accuse me of making sexual advances on him (I didn't), not listening to him, only listening to my own words when I spoke, etc. Accusation, accusation, accusation. When I was in college, I was taught that with disagreement, one should give an argument for one's own perspective, INSTEAD of endlessly accusing the other person. I realized that when I talk with my mother on the phone, SHE does most of the talking. Now, I do feel sympathy for her... she had Narcs for parents. Not one. But two. She'll talk about how the people at Occupy Wall Street are pot-smoking anti-Semites, Accusation is something we deal with during NPD relationships. We're constantly accused, it beats us down, we come to have low self worth. We're afraid of expressing our own views. We're afraid of expressing our feelings. On the phone my mother said, "You don't know what you feel." She was the one who did MOST of the talking(!!!)

#7 Oct 18 - 7PM (Reply to #22)

brinamarie

so true susan

i had a painfully similar experience with an N Mother; and i was always being accused of something. At 12, she spied on me in a bathroom stall at a restaurant and ACCUSED me of being bullemic. I didn't even know what that word meant, nor was I. it was awful, but you are so right. You can't disagree with a narc, it's an endless circle. And it's beyond frustrating. Between having an N Mom and then an N boyfriend for 5 years, i've become an angry, cynical and socially anxious person. but reading stories like yours help me cope. xo

#8 Oct 16 - 8AM

onwithmylife

THIS

IS one of the BEST article I have ever read on how NPD comes about, , does anyone know is this from the October Psychology Today? I alwyas suspected his mother played the pivitol role, he never got his unconditional love from her, she wanted a girl originally, having already had a boy and was narcissistic herself, according to his first wife. The man never was made to feel good enough in his mothers eyes. He desperately sought the love and intimacy from all the women in his life yet was always afraid to show his true self for fear he would be put down,as his mother did to him.I believe he wanted to be in an intimate relationship but could not chance going through the injured child hurt again. Dr. Seltzer is a genius, the narc will never get the very thing he needs and craves an intimate relationship, ...........He is truly a CHILD/MAN....That explains to me the few times in 15 years HE did let his guard down for brief periods of time to make some normal comments to me...Maybe this also explains WHY these men or women have such similar TRAITS that we all recognize, it is like a cookie cutter factory of NARCS!!!!

#9 Oct 16 - 5AM

peanutbutterfrogs

All I can say is though I see so clearly

I am utterly confused and feel like a blind woman groping around in the dark, the danger being I could fall off the precipice at any moment. I am just learning to navigate this site, so an earlier post I made was based on the summary (I was unable to get to the link there but have since read it) I still wonder if I am a narcissist outdone by one more skilled than I. His lack of empathy for anything I was going through became so clear though. It was easy to detect after a while that he realized things on a cognitive level, but not sincerely. Strange though, he rarely attacked me when I would point things out to him. Would simply tell me I was misreading things, and then there were those passive agressive things he would do... then of course I misread all of that too. He wasn't really dangling other women in front of me, he was simply friends with them, and wanted to be PR, so as not to lose his standing on the site he was on. And he rarely lost his cool, though towards the end, I was losing mine a lot with him. Nothing shook him, not really.

#10 Oct 16 - 12AM

cindy222

Couldn't find the article through

that link. Try this one. http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/evolution-the-self/201110/the-narcissists-dilemma-they-can-dish-it-out

#11 Oct 15 - 11PM

ruby01 (not verified)

Great article!

If they are correct in their belief that NPD is caused by the individual's parents. Then in a way it's as if they murdered their child. It's so unfair and cruel.

#12 Oct 16 - 8AM (Reply to #17)

onwithmylife

ruby01

GOOD point, it goes to show you how influential parents, especially mothers, play to their little boys and also letting the boys make the BREAK from mommy around the age of 5 years old from all i have read. they have kept the boy from becoming a man and not a man/child forever as the Narcs are.......my exnarc never felt wanted since his mom wanted a girl, he told me when we were still together, he had reconciled with that, but in reality the damage was done to his mind,psychie, and to this day he has no clue of his damage.........

#13 Oct 15 - 8PM

onwithmylife

Question

how do i get to the article by Dr. Leon Seltzer from Psychology Today, when i click the link the article doesn't show up?

#14 Oct 15 - 10PM (Reply to #15)

Goldie

Follow the link to Psychology Today

Put his name in the search engine, scroll down a few articles and you will see it. God bless, Goldie P.s. Great article Lisa, thanks for sharing

#15 Oct 15 - 9PM (Reply to #14)

MandyM

I can't get to the article,

I can't get to the article, either.

#16 Oct 15 - 3PM

prettypeeved

I love this article. I think

I love this article. I think it neatly encompasses exactly the stage of understanding I'm at now. I realise that he'll never change, he can't grow, and somehow it's finally getting through to my emotional mind that he's just a child. I used to feel jealousy when I saw him achieving things or having a good social life (or at least the appearance of one), but now it just doesn't seem to mean anything. Knowing he's eternally trapped and there is no way forward means I'm losing interest completely.

#17 Oct 15 - 2PM

indenial

so why

Do they obsessively pursue us and appear so needy in the beginning ? Mine I don't get why if he is so scared of intimacy why he so desperately pursued it with me ? I didn't want it ! I told him that ! I didn't want to get close because I was cynical about how relationships turn out ! He said my cynicism was the downfall of our relationship and that if I hadn't messed up in the beginning we would have been happy ever after ! I know its bullshit but why do it ?

#18 Oct 15 - 3PM (Reply to #4)

Used

HE DOESNT WANT INTIMACY, BUT

HE DOESNT WANT INTIMACY, BUT HE WANTS YOU TO HAVE IT, ONCE HE KNOWS YOU HAVE IT...THATS WHEN HE KNOWS YOU WILL SUFFER...SIMPLE AS 123.....

#19 Oct 16 - 9AM (Reply to #9)

onwithmylife

USED

I beg to differ from you on this one, I think my narc wanted intimacy desperately, but could not handle it for fear of the narcissist/childhood injury resurfacing which he so deeply buried.from his mothers improper parenting of him. She smothered and doted on the narc, but still did not give him the unconditional love, he sought so desperately, her love was more conditional, like he gave to the women in his life. I remember saying that very thing to him, 'your love was always conditional to me on how I BEHAVED, he said to me what do you know about love? To me my take of Dr. Seltzer's article is the "supply" being love and acceptance he seeks that he never received from his mother and once he gets his "supply", love he cannot handle it. He is like forever on spin cycle of a washing machine. catch 22, whatever you want to call it....The narcs have to preserve the fake armour around their selves at all cost . The intimacy they bestow on us and then we realize it is all a farce, is to get back at mother for what she did to HIM, in my view. REVENGE

#20 Oct 16 - 9AM (Reply to #10)

Used

ONWITHMYLIFE

then perhaps i should have said, he does want intimacy, but cant do it, but that doesnt change what i ment,and stand by it....they want YOU...to feel the intimacy, because then they have you ,emotionally and intimately... my take on this, is they shouldnt be doing it at all.. they go into r/s knowing full well that they will never feel intimacy, unfortunatly for a lot of women/men, the are not aware of it until the deed is done, and when the narcs have got you were they want you....then and only then do they share this LITTLE FLAW...they are dishonest, pathetic cowardly people,and its getting to the stage that to have to hear how their MOTHERS destroyed them,is becoming OLD HAT.....

#21 Oct 16 - 10AM (Reply to #11)

onwithmylife

USED

I think what we both said is totally valid, but it all starts with the mother, i know you think it is "old hat' and maybe so, but i feel the need to look at the ORIGIN of their behavior, that helps Me figure it all out and since it is engrained in their personality, as we all know, the cycle goes on to repeat itself.He is taking out on what his mother did to him, onto all the women he has intimate relationships with and so on it goes, that is all I am saying, certainly not condoning his behavior and he is well aware of what he is doing, I agree....

#22 Oct 16 - 6AM (Reply to #7)

faith999

This is such an important point Used

This is such an important point used that should not be overlooked. "He doesn't want intimacy but he wants you to have it" Isn't that the name of the game? The motivation? They want us to have that level of intimacy and vulnerability.That is the motivating factor. That is what feels safe to them. That is the hook.Once they have us at that level they then feel we are not going anywhere. So when we think back and remember he did XY and Z and that sure felt like intimacy we know that was how he kept us. As the article says narcs lack the ego strength that would allow them to be genuinely vulnerable to others,but they sure as hell need to make sure we are vulnerable don't they?

#23 Oct 16 - 10AM (Reply to #8)

Susan32

Vulnerability

Relationships require vulnerability-in BOTH partners. Narcs assume there can only be one-sided vulnerability-that in their victims, so they don't have to suffer. Vulnerability means the possibility of abandonment, narcissistic injury- and Narcs want their VICTIMS to have that so they don't have to. Narcs so VERY VERY afraid of getting hurt that when they do get hurt, it shocks them. When I told the ex-Psych prof I loved him, I made myself vulnerable. He went around claiming I made unwanted sexual advances. He moved his seminar from one classroom to another to make me look like a crazy stalker. He flaunted his girlfriend after a friend of mine died. I was so vulnerable that he'd have me sobbing publicly as he smiled smugly or stared me blankly with his cold, reptilian eyes as he said "I am controlling my feelings." Ironically, he DID make himself vulnerable to me. I found out his vulnerabilities, sniffed them out. I realized he didn't like being laughed at-so I lured him to the senior skit, assuring him with a straight face that he would be respected and not laughed at. He learned otherwise. I realized he didn't like seeing me happy. He had wanted me suicidal, angry, jealous of his girlfriend, crazy- so I made a point of being happy. I cried myself to sleep-but I never told him about that. Yes, I inflicted some purposeful narcissistic injuries toward the end. I was vulnerable, and he hurt me. So I found his vulnerabilities like a cougar on the prowl. I went for the jugular.

#24 Oct 15 - 4PM (Reply to #5)

Done sourcing

I think maybe their

I think maybe their selfishness doesn't have room in it to even consider how their behavior affects others. Being completely wrapped in self seems to imply this. They have a need, period. If their need feeds your need the chain is complete and they look "normal". It is when we want something that they are incapable of giving that the problems start. I like the supply need of the narc as the explanation for their behavior because it makes the solution so simple to see. Either give them supply or don't. It is our choice to plug in or pull the plug. They are always looking, we are the only one that can stop giving it away. ds

#25 Oct 18 - 10PM (Reply to #6)

Winter

100% agree with your post

As usually perfectly said DS!

#26 Oct 15 - 3PM (Reply to #3)

Journey

Why?

Supply. What he so 'desperately pursued' with you was NOT intimacy, it was emotional control over you - his most promising supply source at the time. His blaming your cynicism for the downfall of your relationship is just his way of putting all the responsibility onto you for what would happen next which his disorder orchestrated.

Journey on...

#27 Oct 15 - 1PM

Syren66 (not verified)

Yep, they set it up to fail

Yep, they set it up to fail from the word 'go'...one foot perpetually out the door...emotionally and physically - at least, that was my experience. Thanks for posting this!

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