Why do they fear intimacy?

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#1 May 13 - 9PM
beamoflight
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Why do they fear intimacy?

why do they fear intimacy?

May 14 - 8AM
Bitter-sweet
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intimacy

I think Ns fear intimacy because needing someone and truly sharing sex means being generous and not controlling. Ns have to hold the reins and so they can neither accept love nor generously give it. The whole concept of giving and sharing terrifies them. They must have the power. It's interesting though that although they fear intimacy, at the same time they know that most women crave and need it in order to feel desired and secure in a relationship. My N is a perfect example of this. He once said' I'm a bt like a woman, I can't have sex unless I'm in love.' That was interesting (in what he had decided about women!) but also a total lie. He told women he loved them to secure sex. He could fake intimacy at first, but once he'd secured what he wanted- what was the point? Also I should have remembered that he left me the first time because I was too 'intense.' Mine used text and email a lot to create an inimate relationship but don't be fooled... Those methods are not the same as face to face communication and afford the N the physical distance he needs in order to obtain what he really wants from you. On the occasions I had sex with the N, I always felt sad afterwards because I never felt close to him- and he made sure of that.
May 14 - 5AM
momoya
momoya's picture

great info

Narcissists are terrified of intimacy. Their behavior is best characterized as an approach-avoidance repetition complex. Adultery is an excellent tool in the attempt to retard intimacy and resort to a less threatening mode of interaction. Narcissists are misogynists. They hold women in contempt, they loathe and fear them. They seek to torment and frustrate them (either by debasing them sexually - or by withholding sex from them). They harbor ambiguous feelings towards the sexual act. The somatic narcissist uses sex to "conquer" and "secure" new sources of narcissistic supply. Consequently, the somatic rarely gets emotionally-involved with his "targets". His is a mechanical act, devoid of intimacy and commitment. The cerebral narcissist feels that sex is demeaning and degrading. Acting on one's sex drive is a primitive, basic, and common impulse. The cerebral narcissist convinces himself that he is above all that, endowed as he is with superior intelligence and superhuman self-control. Still, sex for both types of narcissists is an instrument designed to increase the number of Sources of Narcissistic Supply. If it happens to be the most efficient weapon in the narcissist's arsenal, he makes profligate use of it. In other words: if the narcissist cannot obtain adoration, admiration, approval, applause, or any other kind of attention by other means (e.g., intellectually) - he resorts to sex. He then become a satyr (or a nymphomaniac): indiscriminately engages in sex with multiple partners. His sex partners are considered by him to be objects - sources of Narcissistic Supply. It is through the processes of successful seduction and sexual conquest that the narcissist derives his badly needed narcissistic "fix". The narcissist is likely to perfect his techniques of courting and regard his sexual exploits as a form of art. He usually exposes this side of him - in great detail - to others, to an audience, expecting to win their approval and admiration. Because the Narcissistic Supply in his case is in the very act of conquest and (what he perceives to be) subordination - the narcissist is forced to hop from one partner to another. http://www.webofnarcissism.com/forums/index.php?topic=6676.0;wap2 have a good weekend!!

momoya

May 13 - 10PM
mynewlife2011
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N's are emotional cripples...

This is a quote from the book: Malignant Self Love quoted in Lisa's book. "An episode of extreme abuse is followed by an act of great care and by apologies. The N Pendulum swings between the extremes of torturing others and empathically soothing the resulting pain. This incongruous behaviour, these "sudden" shifts between sadism and altruism, abuse and "love", ignoring and caring, abandoning and clinging, viciousness and remorse, the harsh and the tender – are, perhaps, the most difficult to comprehend and to accept. These swings produce in people around the narcissist emotional insecurity, an eroded sense of self-worth, fear, stress, and anxiety ("walking on eggshells"). Gradually, emotional paralysis ensues and they come to occupy the same emotional wasteland inhabited by the narcissist, his prisoners and hostages in more ways than one – and even when he is long out of their life." How can anybody be intimate, which requires vulnerbaility, with this dysfunction going on?
May 14 - 8AM (Reply to #14)
ally2375
ally2375's picture

Excellent

Excellent comment. That quote is a perfect reminder here! It's really sad, the games they play to avoid intimacy, isn't it?
May 14 - 5AM (Reply to #13)
momoya
momoya's picture

so true

I so often agree with many of your comments @mynewlife2011~~!! thanks for your insights!

momoya

May 13 - 9PM
TNR1
TNR1's picture

Intimacy requires sharing, it requires closeness....

it requires feelings. Remember, Ns lack empathy, they can't relate to anyone or put themselves in anyone else's shoes. As such, intimacy is dreaded because it requires a key personality aspect that they lack. Best to avoid it and keep to a non committal, pleasure driven relationship. But that doesn't fly for most non Ns...so they may act intimate initially until they have secured you...then...the intimacy starts to fade away.
May 14 - 10AM (Reply to #11)
ifinallygotit
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can't put themselves in others shoes

I once caught ex N in a betrayal. We talked a bit and I asked him how he would feel if the roles were reversed and he had to deal with finding out I had another man's things at my house. he grew really frustrated like a 5 year old and said he had no idea how he would feel. He insisted what I found was from many years ago before we were exclusive (which may be true since he keeps momentos but this was not the point). He got really upset and shut down. he was not concerned about my feeling, instead HE had hurt feelings!! he absolutely could not "get" or feel the normal emotion. How can they have real intimacy if they cannot really feel for someone else? They feel grilled if questioned about any behavior instead of sorry for what they have done. What I don't understand is how he was such a good lover for 10 years...it was sweet and wonderful - not fake or mechanical. He was happy and comfortable and not weird in the bedroom - unless I overstayed my welcome...
May 13 - 9PM (Reply to #7)
strongerthanever
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Then how can they marry someone?

The exN I was with married someone in just about 8 months of dating. I know he married her almost a yr to the day he met her at work. She just filed for divorce, already living a yr away from her husband with 2 little girls. He left me (emotionally and tried physically when I caught him at apartments with rental books in the back seat 1 month prior to me kicking him out) for this much, much younger girl and moved in within a few months and then proposed in about 5-6 months of dating. That has been the hardest thing for me to get over. How he could "commit" to someone with very young girls, and he barely knew. His ex-college friend tried to explain it to me this way: he married so quickly to run away from reality of who he really is, boredom, and fear. I guess if he wanted to run from reality, he married someone to save face with his family and to prove he could commit and that he can bond with kids since it was the complete opposite with me.
May 14 - 6AM (Reply to #9)
onwithmylife
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strongerthanever

I remember reading somewhere that they marry{ and he once asked me to marry him, i said once you are divorced from wife 3,} is because they want to appear normal in society and it is what many people do, get married, raise a family,etc. He told me once he never loved his firs wife and when i asked him why did he marry her, he said because everything was in place. how is that for an answer?
May 14 - 9AM (Reply to #10)
strongerthanever
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onwithmylife

Yeah, will have to agree. I'm sure it was benefical to him to get married. He told me when he got his apartment after he left my house that he couldn't afford it. He was barely making it. He hated teaching and wanted to quit. He quit at the same time of his marriage. He told me that night I kicked him out that he was not looking forward to dating. Even though he was on eharmony and we were matched while he was dating the now wife, it shows to me that he just secured the easiest thing close by to solve his career, money, sons visitation schedule problems. Yep, then being on that high of the honeymoon romance and feeling like it is going to be different, that he can change and the family believing it too (even though they know he did absolutely nothing to fix himself) was what drove all of this. I'm sure at some point here he will feel trapped and the infidelity will start. And raising 2 small children plus his son will eventually take its toll too. I give it a few more years before he destroys her too.
May 13 - 10PM (Reply to #8)
TNR1
TNR1's picture

Oh..they can marry someone..

In fact, Ns will tend to propose/marry early on so that they can secure their partner (victim) before they find out what the N truly is. But that doesn't mean the N is going to keep their marital vow to be faithful. For those of us who have empathy and crave intimacy, the lack of this by the N is a real struggle. The issue is that we can't conceive what not having empathy is like, whereas the Ns can't truly conceive what is to have empathy(and truly, I don't think they spend any time wishing they had it). Oh...they can mimic us for a while, but it never lasts. Their true characterists come out sooner or later.
May 13 - 9PM (Reply to #2)
beamoflight
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wait, explain it like I'm a 2 year old please..

it requires feelings. Okay. Remember, Ns lack empathy, they can't relate to anyone or put themselves in anyone else's shoes. That is hard to grasp-- but I get it. As such, intimacy is dreaded because it requires a key personality aspect that they lack. So they cant feel "close" to somebody because??? why??? Best to avoid it and keep to a non committal, pleasure driven relationship. Ok, so they would rather have sex-- and feel nothing-- but when they start to get close to you they hurt you because-- why? are they scared to let you love them for fear you will leave them?
May 14 - 8AM (Reply to #5)
carol24
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Beamoflight

Hi Beamoflight, I will try to answer your questions with the help of some quotes from Sam Vaknin. 1) So they can't feel "close" to somebody because???Why??? "The narcissist is threatened by intimacy because it reduces him to ordinariness by exposing his weaknesses and shortcomings and by causing him to act "normally". The narcissist also dreads the encounter with his deep buried emotions - hurt, envy, anger, aggression - likely to be foisted on him in an intimate relationship." (Sam Vaknin) In other words, intimacy makes the narcissist feel very uncomfortable because: A) It makes them feel "ordinary" rather than "special" B) The more someone gets to know them, the more their weaknesses are exposed to that person, therefore destroying their image of "perfection" C) It brings up painful memories of previous abandonment from the past and makes them fear a repeat of this situation 2) .... but when they start to get close to you they hurt you because - why? "The paranoid narrative legitimizes intimacy repelling behaviours such as keeping one's distance, secrecy, aloofness, reclusion, aggression, intrusion on privacy, lying, desultoriness, itinerancy, unpredictability, and idiosyncratic or eccentric reactions. Gradually, the narcissist succeeds to alienate and wear down all his friends, colleagues, well-wishers, and mates." (Sam Vaknin) In other words, narcissists always have to be in control, and this means controling other people's behaviour so that everything is the way that thay want it. If you do something that they don't like they will respond in a negative way towards you in order to make it unlikely that you will do it again. Doing something which upsets you is a good way of acheiving this - stimulus-response - they are conditioning you to think of the likely consequences of your actions and behave accordingly. (e.g. "Last time I did that he ignored me for a week afterwards so I had better not do that again"). So, when they sense that you (their partner) are trying to offer them intimacy (which they don't like) they aim to hurt you by treating you badly in order to make you stop doing it and as a way of ensuring that you won't do it again. Hope this helps. xxx
May 14 - 4PM (Reply to #6)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

That sounds like the final D&D

When I declared my love to the ex-Psych prof, he went on a wild smear campaign, claiming that I was making unwanted sexual advances on him... problem was, I hadn't said anything remotely sexual. Asking a person why they're vegetarian, or what their father does for a living ISN'T SEXUAL. "It makes them feel ordinary rather than special"-I told the ex-P about how a male friend of mine, in whom I had been interested, but wasn't interested in me, had gotten engaged&was planning to marry in Colorado. I told the ex-P, that just as I was happy for this male friend, I was happy for him, that he had a girlfriend. The ex-P snapped,"Don't bring me down to your level!" Whenever I told the ex-P I cared about him, that I liked him, I'd get the negative response&his mantra "you acted inappropriately" (the way he evaded giving an apology) Instead, the more negative he got, the more I acted in ways he DIDN'T want. It would explain why, when I mentioned how he spoke of his parents&his sister, he told me to think of him ONLY as a teacher, to think of him ONLY in that role. It's after I said that I cared about him, just as his parents&his sister did. I guess he didn't feel *SPECIAL.* "Makes them fear a repeat of the situation"-About a year after the final D&D, I left NM, without telling anyone. A year after declaring my love for him, I left... without telling his colleagues, and without telling him goodbye. Whenever I offered him intimacy, he acted as if I were raping him. He was acting as if it were a terrible violation. "The paranoid narrative"-The ex-P was REALLY paranoid. "Intimacy repelling behaviors such as keeping one's distance, secrecy, aggression, unpredictability, eccentric reactions"-Sam Vaknin sums up the way the ex-P behaved perfectly. "The narcissist succeeds to alienate&wear down all friends, colleagues"-By my junior year, the ex-P's colleagues were distancing themselves from him. By my senior year, they wanted nothing to do with him. Here he was, he had been complaining about me&badmouthing me to them for the past 4 years, then claiming I was making sexual advances on him... no wonder they tuned him out. Heck, if I had REALLY made sexual advances, they probably would've tuned him out.
May 14 - 6AM (Reply to #4)
Used
Used's picture

INTIMACY

i think they dont like intimacy b/c it means showing their feelings so in essence, they lose control and they just cannot take that chance.
May 13 - 10PM (Reply to #3)
mynewlife2011
mynewlife2011's picture

They never want to hurt again like they did

Most sources state the onset of N was during a painful event during his formative years, suffering a severe loss (emotional/physical/sexual abuse.) The N had to survive it on his own, and internally created a delusion about the incident to survive it- thus seperating himself from his mind at a very young age and losing all abilities to trust anyone again. Those of us with co dependent tendencies have a hard time with this, because we think if we love enough and give enough the N. will eventually permanently take down that wall. However, it is a personality disorder, and once formed cannot be changed, and there is no cure. 13 years I stayed with my ExN and never did find out what horrible incident occurred in his young years, he will not discuss it. Yet I do know that something happened, and when I have confronted him he got awfully quiet and changed the subject. They don't do feelings, emotions, nor vulnerability. They have lost the use of those muscles. Best way I can explain it.