The "upfront" narc

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#1 Oct 19 - 9AM
Sea
Sea's picture

The "upfront" narc

I read so many sad stories of our beautiful strong ladies here being conned by their "very good actor" narcs. Some of the faking is so elaborated!

On the contrary my ex narcky was actually quite "upfront" with me as in:
1. Never said he loves me, just care. Love is for mummy dearest only
2. He said he would never marry any woman including me
3. He told me his interest in any woman dont last more than 3 months. We lasted 3 years his longest in his 50+ narcky years. His reason is because i did not move in with him and we dont see each other daily.
4. I am not his only woman he cares for one other as well one of his long term ex. He cares for me too. All the rest of the woman not insignificant in his life ( saints vs whores syndrome).

Maybe i was really stupid. I stayed with him as he does take good care of me especially the initial phase. My biggest problem with him is he loves to abuse me with ST.

By the way, he is a diagnosed NPD. So no doubt he is a narc.

I think I am the only one with such "upfront" narc and i must be really stupid and crazy!!
Not blaming myself now but it just seems weird. I could identify with some things that were discussed here but not alot. Maybe the narcky i had was a weird one??!!

Sumiko

Oct 20 - 7AM
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture

SEA

Never feel bad about yourself because you hung around, it was the 5 or 6 th year we were together and we went for a walk and he said to me, while we are holding hands, " I never loved you I just wanted us to get a house together so I could drive you off a cliff and get the house. " I had more money in my house at the time. Guess what I never dumped the guy even though i was so angry and hurt at him...this far out now i just think he has nothing in his life, a hermit in his late 60's
Oct 20 - 10AM (Reply to #46)
Sea
Sea's picture

OWML

HE said that? I am speechless. Your narcky paying his price now alone and aged. Hugs! U will recover.
Oct 19 - 11PM
rosedewittbukater
rosedewittbukater's picture

Up front

Yes, mine was. She made a number of self revealing statements, including stating on three separate occasions that she was a narc. "I'm a narcissist, it's all about me, me me". The first time she said this I didn't even really know what the word meant. The next time she blurted this out, I still only had a vague concept and very little knowledge of NPD. Then I found this place. In one breath she would say she did not want to make a commitment then the next start "carrot dangling" about our future. The words never match up with their actions.
Oct 20 - 3AM (Reply to #44)
Sea
Sea's picture

Rose

The strange thing is we tolerated that kind of "upfront" confession. I wonder what am I thinking of. Must be magical thinking maybe I am special and he would treat me better. Almost as crazy as narcky.
Oct 19 - 9PM
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Losing the mask over the years

As Ns/Ps age, the more difficult it becomes to keep up the "good guy" persona in public. Once middle age strikes, it isn't beautiful or aging with grace. My former Narc boss would throw fits, scream and cuss over minor things (like putting a bottle of honey on the counter when the bottom is sticky), threatening firing... he went thru a high number of employees over the course of 5 years. Turnover in the nursing home kitchen was incredibly high. When I started, he painted a "poor me" story of how his entire staff walked out on him en masse... now I completely understand. He thought that engaging in public humiliation, teasing employees in a cruel way, somehow made him "powerful." My former Narc boss is in his 50s. The few times I've seen him, he's aged rapidly. The ex-Psych prof was 32 when I met him (I was 18)... by the final D&D, he was 36. Over the course of 4 years, his colleagues distanced themselves from him. My final D&D was VERY public&ugly;public humiliation, being reduced to tears. He didn't even bother pretending to be nice in public. I never saw the ex-P in private... so that was a factor. MOST Ns/Ps tend to keep their ugliness behind closed doors. The ex-P was public with his bad behavior.
Oct 20 - 3AM (Reply to #34)
Sea
Sea's picture

Susan

Strangely my ex narcky is very "preserved" at 50s. He took great care of his looks. Likely to attract NS. I think with his looks and $ he probably last very long in the dating "playing field". I read from else where on the internet about a 76YO narc still playing the dating field! oh My 76?!! that means some might preserve their looks to last. It could also mean my ex narc can last another 20 years of playing around with enough women NS. by then I would be 50YO. God!
Oct 20 - 6PM (Reply to #40)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Sounds somatic...

Somatic Narcs treat their bodies as their temples (not of the Holy Spirit, but to themselves) I'd say they're HUMAN for Narcs because they realize they are embodied, take care of it, and don't trash it. They'll cling onto their youth, even if it means numerous plastic surgeries (like that woman who is a Living Barbie, or Joycelyn Wildenstein, the Cat Lady) My former Narc boss would brag about going to Weight Watchers, how he ate healthy, but his waist said otherwise. The last I saw him, he was grayer, looked stressed, and surprisingly gaunt. He's aged rapidly in 3 years. The ex-Psych prof aged fast for a man in his 30s. He had crows' feet, decaying teeth&would constantly call himself an old man or a decaying old man. Once, he kicked off class saying he WANTED to be fat. He'd say he wanted to be a fat bookworm like Pierre in "War and Peace",or Ignatius Reilly in "Confederacy of Dunces." He idolized Homer Simpson. But it's surreal coming from the mouth of a tanned, slender guy who could've taken up modeling. By the final D&D, he had a prominent beer belly. He WAS sexually desirable when I first met him... but by the final D&D, it's no wonder nobody believed him when he claimed I was hitting on him sexually. Weirdly, my hunched over Narc grandmother claims that men hit on her sexually;she's paranoid about it. Narcs who rely on their looks&maintain them tend to be the somatic types. Cerebral ones tend to let themselves go. Cerebral Narcs rely on control;somatic Narcs rely on their bodies.
Oct 21 - 12AM (Reply to #41)
Sea
Sea's picture

100% somatic

Yes he's 100% somatic. Sex is top priority for hom. "my hunched over Narc grandmother claims that men hit on her sexually;she's paranoid about it." Probably my ex narcky will be like her, grand old age and claiming women hitting on him sexually. No matter how "well preserved" he will aged and it will show.
Oct 22 - 12PM (Reply to #42)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

As he gained weight...

His arguments lost weight. The ex-Psych prof didn't have a beer belly, and he had only one chin when I first met him. He went around claiming I was hitting on him sexually... but I think his colleagues were laughing behind his back. If not to his face. My Narc grandmother thinks that if a man talks to her he's interested. She used to be a Rockette at Radio City Music Hall. She was an actress and dancer. Somatic Narcs know there's a mind-body connection. With cerebral Narcs, you have to send them PMs and IMs as well as memos to helpfully inform them that yes indeed their bodies are connected to their minds, and that they do have bodies.
Oct 20 - 7AM (Reply to #35)
peanutbutterfrogs
peanutbutterfrogs's picture

The ageless narc

I don't know where I read it, maybe in the book Malignant Self-Love, but it was stated that some narcs look really youthful compared to their chronological years. The theory being they don't suffer the ravages of time due to their lack of empathy and feelings. LOL, I aged a lot over the course of time with my narc, and strangely, he started looking younger...hmmmmmmmm Oh my goodness!!! RUN!!! They really are vampires stealing our life source!!! Seriously. *hugs*
Oct 20 - 10AM (Reply to #36)
Sea
Sea's picture

This sounds logical. No

This sounds logical. No worries no wrinkles. Truely a vampire.
Oct 20 - 10AM (Reply to #37)
Froglegs
Froglegs's picture

Even if/when his looks aren't

Even if/when his looks aren't so great anymore due to age, as long as he's got money he will always have supply. There are plenty of gold diggers out there that would love to enjoy his money. They'll use each other for their own sick needs and be so happy they'll poop rainbows. :)
Oct 20 - 11AM (Reply to #39)
peanutbutterfrogs
peanutbutterfrogs's picture

Mine is barely making a living

He relies on his charm and talents. He isn't the greatest looking guy either, average maybe? It was all about the charm. The ability to swoon with words and talents. And then later, he bought those cd's about hypnotic techniques. That one always did feel uncomfortable to me. He likes to make music videos for youtube. No matter, they always find a way to get supply. Always. It is key to their survival. *Hugs*
Oct 20 - 10AM (Reply to #38)
Sea
Sea's picture

Talk about gold diggers

The narcky is quite smart to spot them and use them. He just give them free meals nothing more. He is too lazy to buy gifts unless that NS is valuable. And quite stingy sometimes. His long term ex he did so much for her. Paid her kids private school fees! He ever told me me and her meant alot to him and he cared for us. Now i am out of fog this is nothing but triangulation. Make the 2 woman jealous.
Oct 19 - 8PM
peanutbutterfrogs
peanutbutterfrogs's picture

You aren't..

They are. Crazy but in a cold and calculated way. They know exactly how to get inside our heads and twist our rationale and ability to reason. Geez, you'd think these people could be hired by the military or something and at least be able to do something positive with their *gifts*. Think about it, instead of physical torture... but I wouldn't wish this kind of torture on anyone, am not sure even a terrorist would deserve it. (jk)
Oct 20 - 10AM (Reply to #31)
tresor2
tresor2's picture

Many of them are leaders of

countries and the White House is full of them. That's one of the reasons our country is such a mess. Their "gifts" have driven us into a major recession and we're all suffering as a result.
Oct 20 - 10AM (Reply to #32)
peanutbutterfrogs
peanutbutterfrogs's picture

Gifts

It seems the world is full of them. I see so many bullies and such on the internet. It really surprised me to see so much of it. Maybe I lived in a bubble or a cave for years. (the internet to me is still a relatively new medium) I always thought the best way to deal with any human issues is to have empathy and compassion, not control and dependence. I don't want my children to be dependent on me, or feel controlled by me. What does that give them as far as a sense of self? What happens when I am gone, and can no longer provide for them? Interdependence is one thing, co or counterdependence is so different. Look around on the different internet forums, it seems no one really discusses anything, they instead try to prove they are right. (Am not talking about this one:) What happened to open discussions and exchanging ideas? And being able to admit when one is wrong, or there is room for compromise? LOL, am ranting and rambling. Sorry 'bout that. Sometimes the contents of my mind just spill out on the keyboard and it isn't always pretty. Have a good day. *Hugs*
Oct 19 - 9PM (Reply to #26)
needing2know
needing2know's picture

I think thats why mine worked

I think thats why mine worked in a prison! It's all about control, so he does know how to hurt people mentally!
Oct 19 - 9PM (Reply to #27)
peanutbutterfrogs
peanutbutterfrogs's picture

Prisoners

Do not deserve that kind of cruelty. :D No seriously, if we could only keep these N's away from the general population, perhaps they do serve a good p.. nah....... :) *Hugs*
Oct 19 - 9PM (Reply to #28)
needing2know
needing2know's picture

I use to tell him my kids and

I use to tell him my kids and his were not his little inmates! cause thats how he treats people, but only behind closed doors
Oct 19 - 9PM (Reply to #29)
peanutbutterfrogs
peanutbutterfrogs's picture

So sad

I remember years ago, a friend of mine (we've since lost touch) was going through a divorce. Her husband was a well respected, and well liked psychiatrist. She told me of the real person he was behind closed doors though and I had caught glimpses of it enough to know she wasn't exxagerating, and besides, she just was not the kind to make things up. Amazing how they can fool so many and keep people tagging along, singing their praises. I feel for your children. The good thing? They have you as mom to balance them.
Oct 19 - 9PM (Reply to #30)
needing2know
needing2know's picture

I'm just glad I never had

I'm just glad I never had kids with him, his older daughters just tolerate him they think he is a dick, but his teenagers can't wait to get out. They are not happy, and when they were at my house they would act like kids do and be happy and goof off, as soon as they seen him coming their demeanor would change , it was like they were scared to be kids, they loved it at my house and I could tell it bothered him , if he went somewhere he would tell them to get in the car and they would tell him they are staying with me
Oct 19 - 8PM
peanutbutterfrogs
peanutbutterfrogs's picture

Stealth

Mine was so subtle, silver tongued, his mask doesn't fail in public. His rudeness and crassness often appeared during private communication though. Here's the weird thing though, he didn't ever direct his anger at me, he had blatantly passive aggressive tools he used at me. But then when I would confront him, he'd tell me I just couldn't accept his love and misread everything. He seemed so innocent and convincing, that is why I felt I was losing my mind. I just realized though. He does not have anyone. Not one person, in his real actual life, that is a friend. Not one. All of his friends are people he started hooking up with on the internet. It is his only source of "positive" supply. (people who praise him) Even his relationships with family members are strained and frought with dysfunction. It is only a matter of time before his cybercircle figure him out. And the thought actually makes me feel sorry for him. Don't worry, not enough to establish contact. The sympathy is actually a good thing, I prefer it to the anger and hatred I've felt. *Hugs*
Oct 20 - 3AM (Reply to #24)
Sea
Sea's picture

"he didn't ever direct his

"he didn't ever direct his anger at me, he had blatantly passive aggressive tools he used at me. But then when I would confront him, he'd tell me I just couldn't accept his love and misread everything. He seemed so innocent and convincing, that is why I felt I was losing my mind." Same here, got this crazy treatment. Makes me look like the aggressor, abuser etc. :(
Oct 20 - 3AM (Reply to #23)
Sea
Sea's picture

"he didn't ever direct his

"he didn't ever direct his anger at me, he had blatantly passive aggressive tools he used at me. But then when I would confront him, he'd tell me I just couldn't accept his love and misread everything. He seemed so innocent and convincing, that is why I felt I was losing my mind." Same here, got this crazy treatment. Makes me look like the aggressor, abuser etc. :(
Oct 19 - 8PM (Reply to #21)
ready2receive
ready2receive's picture

Mine too!

Sounds like we were with the same N!!! He was very subtle and worshipped me in public. He very rarely put me down even in private unless I confronted him on his behavior or issues (which I then learned not to do). He also has NOT ONE FRIEND and a very strained relationship with everyone in his family, even his own grown daughter. He's a loner, so he doesn't always fit all the typical N characteristics. The rages were directed elsewhere more than they were at me, but when they came, they were mindboggling, confusing, cold and painful. I'm glad you posted that - it was a good reminder that some Ns are VERY stealth and subtle. Thank you!!!
Oct 19 - 9PM (Reply to #22)
peanutbutterfrogs
peanutbutterfrogs's picture

Thank you

Though I see many similarities in my ex N to others, I still doubt my own perceptions a lot. He did not abuse me verbally. Only once did he raise his voice at me, and that was during a heated discussion. It was his crass treatment of others. It was the almost maniacal madness I saw in his eyes one time when discussing how much he was appreciated, "above and beyond" his ex who'd strived for years in the same field he'd gotten into only recently. When I met him he'd been celibate for a number of years. That impressed me. I soon began to realize there was a reason for that. He didn't need "others" to enjoy himself. And there were so many other things. Subtle. Hidden from view. At least on the internet. It's kind of like when you hear about a psycho celebrity that you never in a million years would have guessed was so cruel, but the Hollywood community always knew. I read a lot of Dr. Sam Vaknin's book -- Malignant Self-love. And it all became so clear. Were I any more paranoid than I am, I would say Dr. Vaknin followed my ex around and wrote the story about him. Maybe it is a book you could check out. Am glad I'm not the only one who suffered this type, it was starting to make me doubt what I experienced. The main clue with mine though? The total lack of sincere empathy for anything I, or others, was going through. Stay strong. For your own sake. *Hugs*
Oct 19 - 7PM
tresor2
tresor2's picture

Oh no, Sea, you are not

stupid and here are some upfront things my Narc said through the years. If you're stupid, I'm the walking dead... "I get lots of sex." "All I care about is money." "I'll never get married again." "I'm a wanderer." "I'm bad at relationships." "I only love one woman from 50 years ago." "I treat "everyone" the same." on and on...now that I have some recovery; the nightmare of it all is really hitting me. Also, the ST was never-ending. Sometimes it happened because he was mad and other times because he had other supply. Years ago, after he dumped me, I went on a dating site and he somehow found my profile. I paid dearly...not only the ST...he announced he was getting married to a married woman!! We could have a great time and then he'd not call for two weeks...hurtful and bazare. I put up with the shit and before I knew it, I wasted 1-3 years, then 4, then 5, then 6, then 7 and finally it ended after 8. All I remember is 8 years of pain and living in toxic hope that things would change. Things don't get better; they get worse when you are with a narc. I know you are struggling, just like me but, things improve with NC. And don't forget, there's nothing strange about their behavior...it's Narc behavior and that is who they are. We need to accept that in order to move on. It has nothing to do with you. Tre
Oct 20 - 3AM (Reply to #19)
Sea
Sea's picture

Tresor

"I treat "everyone" the same." I get this one as well. No surprise what the narcs can dish out, but strangely I accepted all these without questions. It's pretty upfront as in telling me who he is as in "no mismatch in expectation" later kind of statements.
Oct 19 - 6PM
jackguy
jackguy's picture

my ex is quite abrasive and narcy with lots of people

my ex is quite abrasive and narcy with lots of people but her behaviour is always reframed as a sign of her moral superiority e.g. she can judge and talk down to people because of her innate superiority to everyone else. She is able to convince people of her superiority so that she has a plausible defence against being labelled a bully. Noticeably though she generally wouldn't bully someone if there was someone else around that was likely to call her out on simple bullying (although she would do this at times). The really obvious, obnoxious stuff she saved for her 1to1 interactions with me during the d&d though.