There are NO Winners with a PD

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#1 Sep 21 - 10AM
Goldie
Goldie's picture

There are NO Winners with a PD

People need to smarten up and take responsibility for who and what they allow into their lives. This is what recovery has been about for me, to smarten up when it comes to my emotions. I am smart enough in other area's of my life, yet with men, I have always been an emotional cripple, stunted, like a trusting child.

Whether you choose to call it Codependent, love addict, brainwashed by the PD, victim, trama bond, Stolkholm syndrome, PTSD, or just plain naive and not in your right mind, hopelessly "in love." The END result is always going to be the same. We lose, way too much of ourselves in these relationships and are generally a mess by the time we get out.

Obviously a relationship with a married man is a dead end and hurtful to their families, yet so is a relationship with an active drug addict, a physical abuser, a liar, a cheat, a PD, and a man who has the emotional maturity of a 2 year old.

The wife suffers if she stays with the PD, the OW suffers if she gets involved with a married man or a man with a GF, or a PD.

What I notice is that when people are in trememdous pain they like to "compare" with the OW or the wife.

You can either put the OW down to somehow justify or make yourself feel better or worse depending on the situation.

Oh she was a skank, or she is not pretty, or she is heavier than me, or she was cruel to the PD.

Or you can go the other route and say: Oh she is prettier than me, younger, smarter, better, why is he with her now, what's wrong with me???

All of this comparing is pure bullshit. It is designed to keep you stuck and keep your mind off the real issue at hand and the real issue at hand is: What are YOU doing with this whack job and what do YOU need to do to get out and stay out? All the rest of it is just smokescreen to keep the focus off of the self and the true pain which is being experienced by remaining emeshed with the PD. By obsessing about the PD and or the OW, this keeps you in your head and away from the real issues at hand. This is the plight of the addict/Codependent, as long as you are obsessing about your drug PD/OW, it keeps you connected to the source of your addiction and pain and the cycle just keeps repeating itself over and over again.

There are no winners with a PD and none of their victims are better or worse, they are mostly just women like me who were way too trusting, too eager, too willing to please, and not able to separate fact from fiction with a man, and not able to get out immediately when they did the first bad thing.

I pray for the dischord between women to heal and for us to collectively support each other in growing strong and learning to say NO to all of this abuse, regardless to what our position was with the PD.

My narcs were not married and I am way too "emotionally needy" to be with a married man, the notion of having to share him with OW is out of my scope. YET the truth of the matter is that you always share a PD with another: Themselves, they are so self absorbed that you are never really their priority no matter how much they "fool" you or "fake it" in the beginning. Whether they have OW or not, you will never be their priority.

So basically the OW is not and never was, "the point." The point is that they are just no damn good and will bring none of the woman in their lives anything but pain and heartache, period.

Love ALL my sisters in recovery!!!

God bless,
Goldie

Sep 23 - 2AM
uk lady
uk lady's picture

Priority

I told mine numerous times, and numerous other people too, that I was fed up with always being at the bottom of his priority list. And of course he would always talk round it and then promise to do whatever to prove me wrong which, obviously, ultimately never truly happened. Then the gaslighting would begin and I would be made to feel guilty about wanting us to spend time together more than once a week - he was always so busy, right? He was doing me a favour and should be appreciative. It was never my aim to stop him doing his job, sports, help his mother, etc, etc but there was always something more pressing, probably OW or NS - who knows or, more importantly now, who cares? I know that I was unwittingly the OW at one stage too - he was in a live in relationship for 5 years and I never had a clue because, oh dear, he didn't think I needed to know. But I now know that I was never his priority. He talked the good talk but never walked the walk. His only priority was him and his needs/wants. My ex had never married or had children so his time was 100% his own so there were no outside commitments - other than his own. I just didn't figure in the equation. Reading this back makes me sound like I have special needs or a stupid teenager with an out and out crush who knew no better but, this man could appear at times so gentle and caring (with his words), but his actions told a whole different story. And I was constantly kept spinning because once I stood still long enough I finally saw it for what it was - bullsh*t. I don't see any of the past, present or future women in his life as to blame. To be honest, I feel sorry for them. He is the only one to blame because he enjoys the power of it all. So, yes Goldie, I am smarter now and walking the path to full recovery. Have a great day. Dee x
Sep 23 - 11AM (Reply to #18)
Jannie In the Sun
Jannie In the Sun's picture

Same here

You mentioned a frequent Narc behavior - talking around the issue. That applied to anything my exN didn't want to look at or discuss - including the fact that he left me at the bottom of the 'list'. And he did the same thing to the OW. Again Narcs don't change, they change people. It is so incredibly unbelievable; the lengths of dishonesty they go to in order to secure supply and control - Sick!
Sep 23 - 2PM (Reply to #19)
uk lady
uk lady's picture

So true

He did exactly the same to every woman he has been involved with. Demanding job (because he is so important) and last minute changes to all plans because he was so indispensible to the company and it was only ever him who could do whatever was required. Qualified football referee about 2 nights pw and all day Saturday and sometimes Sunday. Gym 2 nights a week and when no football on Sunday then probably a marathon instead. AND, he would always want me to go and support him to whatever city he was running the marathons in - all over the UK and even suggested Toronto and NY. No way was I spending my hard earned cash as a marathon groupie. Oh, and then there was the mommy issues. Enough said. So like all P/Ns the behaviour doesn't change, just the face of the current supply and eventually they all get fed up because they too are not a priority to him so, they walk away. And he then wonders why everybody abandones him. Look in the mirror asshole. God, writing this stuff really gets my bile up. Deep breaths, and breathe. Dee x
Sep 23 - 10AM (Reply to #10)
Used
Used's picture

uklady

this struck a cord with me....i was narc most special friend he had ever had...lol.... when his ow came and told me they had been in a r/s all the time me and this toerag[narc] where friends...after him first denying it, he said i didnt have to tell you you were only A MATE.......when he found out i had another male friend he went absolutley mental[well mentaler] i said why should i have to tell you ,you are only a mate....but at the time i was so hurt...only a mate.... i said i hope your lies were worth the loss of my friendship....i know what you mean...when the have got you[well think they have] you are no longer a priority, you b/c. OH HER INDOORS!!!!!!
Sep 23 - 2PM (Reply to #15)
uk lady
uk lady's picture

Used

Talking of mates. During the 5 years (whilst he was with the NS oh and by the way although they lived together, they never slept together - I may be Irish matey but I am not green!!). We were in intermittent contact because obviously our relationship had never been properly ended. Yes, I had been D&D that time but was still so special to him so he kept in contact and of course I only had to call him if ever I needed absolutely anything (but, of course, that was only lip service) - how vomit inducing is that? Well one time, he told me that he had to visit a "friend" in hospital. Me thinking a male friend and enquired about his health and joked about pretty nurses etc. Turned out it was his female "friend" who had had to have an emergency hysterectomy. God, no bounds to his level of deception. She obviously considered herself his gf but, oh no, just a mate and her lodger. Obviously at the time I was none the wiser because I didn't even know she existed. During our recent 3 years back "together" I know that he constantly referred to me with his work colleagues as his "friend". I couldn't be bothered to argue that point as it was on and off so frequently. Still, better to have been considered his friend than his wife. What a much more godawful mess that could have been. LOL. Dee x
Sep 23 - 2PM (Reply to #16)
Used
Used's picture

uklady

their is no limits to there friggen deceptions,the things i caught him out about, were pathetic, i said to him ,you are not even good at it.....didnt sleep together MY EYE, but i would have believed this crap once, until i relized who and what he was, i had fell for some shed of crap with him.....i just read a journal[a page] i had written ,this date but last year, and you could tell i was so much better away from his INFLUENCE...so that would have ben 14mnths nc....today i am 23 mnths nc, and getting better and better.....he was one of the most negative influences of my life....same as my husband, but i had lived withexnh for 31 years...and btw the 2 of them they tried to destroy me.....they didnt...glad to be out,glad to be out...almost like beign in prison for 40 years...and set free...frightened at first, baby steps ,the big steps then adult steps.....then free.....never again..they both try to get friendly....haha no way j'ose...
Sep 23 - 2PM (Reply to #17)
uk lady
uk lady's picture

Wow, well done Used on the NC

Yes, I compare my time with the ex-P as more than a prison sentence for murder. Dee x
Sep 23 - 11AM (Reply to #11)
mystwoman
mystwoman's picture

I swear these jerks could all

I swear these jerks could all be xnh. Your "only a mate" comments really struck a chord with me. Xnh used to tell me that I was "just the wife". I was always dead last on xnh's priority list as well (if I ranked on his list at all). He would give a person behind him in a check-out line in the store a higher priority than he gave me. Well, I may have been "just the wife" to xnh. Now, I'm "just nothing" to him, and he doesn't have to worry about making me ANY priority. Xnh can take his NPD and shove it up his ass. My priority is now me and my recovery from the relationship with him. I'm now "just doing great without xnh". :)

______________________________________________________
God sometimes removes a person from your life for your protection. Don't run after them.

Sep 27 - 11AM (Reply to #13)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

"Just a teacher"

It's hurtful when Ns/Ps apply such labels to us... but it's odd when Ns/Ps apply it to themselves. After the final D&D, the ex-Psych prof was commanding me to think of him as "just a teacher" because I had mentioned his girlfriend, his sister, his mother and of course, his beloved Daddy. I had asked him why he brought up his family with me... and he said he was doing it to "look human." He saw being a teacher as being a role. One of many compartmentalized roles. That's why he'd spend the final D&D referring to himself as "the teacher",to me as "the student"--and later he referred to his girlfriend as "Miss G---" instead of by her first name. The ex-P thought he could command me to think of him as just a teacher.... that worked. NOT.
Sep 27 - 12PM (Reply to #14)
mystwoman
mystwoman's picture

It's really pathetic that he

It's really pathetic that he felt he had talk about other people in order to "look human", isn't it? Narcs literally must act at EVERYTHING. They have no substance on their own.

______________________________________________________
God sometimes removes a person from your life for your protection. Don't run after them.

Sep 23 - 11AM (Reply to #12)
TNR1
TNR1's picture

we are all lower on the priority scale than the N is to himself.

What the N wants, what the N feels he needs, what the N feels he is entitled to...rank supreme. EVERYONE else falls to lower and lower rungs. That is why no one gets the best of the N.
Sep 23 - 10AM (Reply to #9)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

"He felt like I didn't need to know"

Those words moved me to tears. The ex-Psych prof treated me THE SAME WAY when it came to his LDR girlfriend who moved in with him after the final D&D. He could be incredibly gentle and understanding towards me, and then cold&cruel. The same back-and -forth. This was from a teacher, not a lover or boyfriend. He thought that since I was a student, I "didn't need to know" that he had a girlfriend, tho he KNEW full well I was enamored of him. As for "sounding like a stupid teenager with an out and out crush"-I was a teenager during my relationship with the ex-P... I was D&D'd when I was 21/22. As for his girlfriend, she eventually married him (after he got her pregnant with twins)... they've been married the past decade. I wouldn't ever be mean to her because I KNOW the ex-P loves women fighting each other&hating each other on account of him, and I would want TOTAL CONTROL by destroying that triangulation. I bear no animosity to his wife. I save all that wrath for him. I never had a clue about his girlfriend. He never talked about his girlfriend. When I met her, I was embarrassed&devastated because I had declared my love to him. He coldly said "It shouldn't matter to you that I already have a girlfriend." When I congratulated the ex-P on being engaged, he ANGRILY accused me of imposing myself on him, violating his privacy, he seriously thought the fact he had a girlfriend, that he was my teacher, was NONE OF MY DA*N BUSINESS. I regret not publicizing his engagement. I really should've followed the Bible and shouted it from the housetops. That's when I began to act entitled. I told him I was ENTITLED to his honesty, and I treated him as if his right to privacy didn't exist. He acted like a celebrity whose private life had been invaded by the paparazzi. And I acted like someone getting a big scoop for TMZ. There was once a webpage telling how the ex-P had had twins with his girlfriend, how he married her. I sent the ex-P some brief emails congratulating him on fatherhood&marriage. That webpage has long since disappeared. He was ALWAYS very secretive. His father has a significant internet presence with articles, commentaries, interviews--- the ex-P has disappeared, like a ghost. The ex-P isn't one of those Narcs who advertises himself as a Happy Husband or Father of the Year.
Sep 22 - 12AM
enpsychopedia r... (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

And they lie, lie, lie. I'm

And they lie, lie, lie. I'm not particularly co-dependent, by nature, but I tell you, a narc, particularly one with strong psychopathic tendencies can fool anybody. We do have to be more wary of PD men. Now we know how they present it should be much easier for us. We have to be equally careful not to pathologize ourselves too much in the process of healing. I think it's enough to say, we are openhearted and caring. If that's a new form of emotional illness, count me in!
Sep 21 - 11PM
Jannie In the Sun
Jannie In the Sun's picture

The path of least resistance

Me, her, the one before or after; we are all the same for the selfish little man I was involved with. The path of least resistance. Whatever is in front of a Narc that will further his OWN personal and professional needs is his for the taking and then discarding. Like most information on NPD, my exN is opportunistic and sees people as a means to and end. If you can satisfy his need to be the center of the universe, fulfill his sexual needs until he needs new NS, make him money and/or look good then you have a purpose. Otherwise you are out. That is why he only has a few REAL friends (his brothers) and lots of exgf's. This is so Narc typical and I can only feel sympathy for the other women (who thinks she is 'special') as he completely disrespects her, cheats on her and underhandedly diminishes her self worth. I smartened up!
Sep 21 - 10PM
rosedewittbukater
rosedewittbukater's picture

Goldie you amazed me again!

Your posts are always so right on!! "the truth of the matter is that you always share a PD with another: Themselves, they are so self absorbed that you are never really their priority no matter how much they "fool" you or "fake it" in the beginning. Whether they have OW or not, you will never be their priority." That really hit home with me, as I always felt this way after the idealization was over. For a while I told myself "maybe I am asking too much" The more I would deny myself that way, the more miserable I became to the point of becoming so physically ill I was hospitalized! I always knew in my heart this never being a priority (or really important at all!) was wrong, and reading what you wrote helps me see that this was not OK and never should be! Thank you!! xx, Rose
Sep 21 - 1PM
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

Right on Goldie! You and I

Right on Goldie! You and I have discussed this. Man my therapist called this in me months ago. She said u are a codependent in active addiction all this texting and snooping is allowing you to stay connected and using. She said you have a firm grasp cognitively on narcissists and sociopahs yet your actions say otherwise. I said I know ts like I know but can't integrate emotionally. I said what is that about? And she said its about an addict in denial. The denial allows you to stay connected to your addiction. So so true. I have often said I feel like a narc with empathy. Narcs know what they do is wrong but they can't integrate it emotionally because they have no empathy. Narcs are addicts and will hurt whomever to attain their drug. The codepentdent is an addict with too much empathy. Two addicts lovely hence the term Co- dependent
Sep 21 - 12PM
ordinarycourage
ordinarycourage's picture

No Winners

This is the best post yet on this whole subject about the OW. We women who survive and thrive will be the winners!
Sep 21 - 12PM
Susan32
Susan32's picture

The OW as diversion

I think that's why the ex-Psych prof's flaunting his girlfriend to hurt my feelings backfired (other than the fact he shabbily treated her in public, to my chagrin). He had treated ME badly. How he treated ME mattered. It was how *I* felt that mattered. Whether or not he had a girlfriend didn't matter. He could've hit the town with Padma Lakshmi, who graduated from the same college as him;he could've dated Colin Firth (okay, then I would've been jealous) It's how he treated ME that mattered. I was unhappy, frustrated, tired of the constant complaining, embarrassment and rages. I was hurting... it didn't matter that his girlfriend had moved in with him. He had caused the hurt. I was shocked at my own lack of anger&jealousy at his girlfriend (it shocked my friends too)... but it was about how badly he had treated ME. She had nothing to do with it. I don't know the role she played. Whether she was normal&brainwashed, or a Narc who applauded his bullying, I don't know. I can't pass judgment on what I don't know. But I can judge how the ex-P treated me. He was incapable of being my husband and father of my children, he was incapable of being my lover. He was cruel&hurtful. I'm glad I didn't get intimate with him, glad I didn't marry him.
Sep 21 - 12PM
mystwoman
mystwoman's picture

This is so very true. Great

This is so very true. Great post Goldie! In my case I was technically the OW at first. Xnh duped me into believing that his marriage was over and that he was legally separated. His marital status made no difference as far as xnh was concerned. He did whatever he wanted, because it's all about him. However, in my book, xnh was not completely divorced, and he had two small children. It bothered me, and I felt like a "home wrecker". I have to take the responsibility that I should not have let myself get involved. However, I did. Now I'm responsible for my own recovery from the consequences of my relationship with a person with NPD, and I must live with my conscience concerning the choices I made. About 8 years after I started a relationship with xnh, I stupidly married him (knowing full well that there were problems in the relationship). We were married for another 8 years. When he dumped me, xnh had been cheating with OW. I have no doubt that xnh told OW the exact same crap that he'd told me when we first met about how he was living is sexless, miserable marriage, and that we were separating (we weren't as far as *I* knew). I'm guessing that xnh's first wife didn't really know she was "separating" when I came along either. From what I've heard, xnh was most likely stringing her along about their reconciling while he was stringing me along that we had a wonderful future together. Having been involved with a narc from both sides of the sheets, I find that the problem is NOT whether we are the OW or the wife or girlfriend or whoever. The common denominator is the narc. They are liars, manipulators, cheats, and abusers. I could hate the OW just like xnh's first wife could hate me. However, in truth, the one I hold to blame is xnh. The other women are merely prey just like I was, and xnh was the predator. It really doesn't matter what form we took in our relationships with narcs. What is important is that we realize that we were all mauled by the same type of aggressor, and we need to support each other in our pain. No one would blame an antelope for being vulnerable, or in the wrong place, when a panther jumped out of the bushes and attacked. It does not matter whether we were the OW, wife, or whatever with the narc either. The panther jumped out of the bushes and attacked. I blame the panther (narc). We're all suffering from our bite and claw marks from the attack. Goldie is absolutely correct. There are no winners with a PD.

______________________________________________________
God sometimes removes a person from your life for your protection. Don't run after them.