Then What of Romance?

15 posts / 0 new

#1 Jan 26 - 4AM

Kelly

Then What of Romance?

I truly believed my last ex N was my knight and shining, my one and only, my destiny . . . barf. He even dressed as Neo - - "The One" from the Matrix on Halloween. Irony that the mask began to peel off that night.

The boy swept me off my feet. I thought I had everything I wanted and I was on a cloud, only of course to be dropped and replaced shortly thereafter.

So, is that it? I am actually numb at this point after all my dating experience. I think if one more guy tries to sweep me off my feet, I will run away so fast, he wouldn't even have the chance to say "but, but you are so special"

Is romance dead? I'm pretty sure my hopeless romantic side is what made me easy prey for these bastards. I keep hearing from my friends that it's the ladies who don't care about marriage who end up finding a great guy and getting married.

I was always afraid of not caring. After the last N, I think I am starting to not care. Is this healthy? My therapist said he thinks it's good to get swept up in the romance. That I shouldn't give up on that. I'm so conflicted. I can't help but envy the ladies who do get to have that and end up with someone great. Is it even possible in this society or are all the men really scum? Do I really have to play the game and hide my feelings if they develop? Eventually, you need to show how you feel.

#2 Jan 27 - 9AM

Carolyn

Romance might be a myth and

Romance might be a myth and a come-on to attract women. I have seen some really good men, in my 70 years, but not in large numbers. If the courtship is fun with wine and roses but the marriage is hard work and maybe a lack of compatibility that could be why 52% of marriages end in divorce. the romance stage of a relationship is a type of betrayal because the female thinks that will always be part of the relationship but the male doesn't think that way necessairily. In the normal scheme of things, not the narc or personality disordered world,men and women might have different expectations and both get disappointed. Men do like trophy wives and that will change in time. Women want romance but men associate that with dating not with mating. It is like the expectation that women have of a monogomous relationship but the male is a bit of a wanderer. I wonder if that heavy romance, soul-mate, come-on of the narc isn't what hits the victim so hard making them have a love with great strength. Women really want what the narc offers in the romance department and then he pulls the emotional rug out from under the victim leaving her on the floor hurt and dazed; also frequently blaming herself for 'the fall'. It is also the narcs style of pure romance, like bait in a trap, and then horrible, traumatizing abuse. The trap snaps. Maybe women could avoid the trap alltogether if they think differently? It would be interesting to see an article on post-marital expectation from the male point of view and from the female. Even though there is a huge divorce rate, more than half in the US and the country I live in it is 57% divorce, women expect to be married forever, I did, and to have security and companionship, faithfulness etc. I wonder what men think they are going to have? Marriage is really a business and I never thought of it that way. It is a contractual relationship with marital assets, bank accounts, divorce is the disolution of the marriage as a business but, especially when there are children, the relationship remains. Centuries ago the bride had a dowry and that helped set up the couple. Women were virtually sold for cattle, goats and chickens.The wedding was the party held for the signing of the contract and often the bride and groom never met. It was all an arranged marriage. I wonder what the modern contract for marriage really is all about. I never gave any of this a thought when I got married.

#3 Jan 27 - 5AM

agnesmurphy17

Romance?

Life ain't a Pepsi commercial. Remember those short & beautiful Pepsi commercials of puppies, smiles & family fun all in 15-30 seconds. Life was more than good, life was perfect in a Pepsi commercial. Romance is perfected not in a short and intense display of larger-than-life behaviors. Romance is a quiet and steady process of being there, over the long haul. Romance is dignified and respectful of the wishes & the needs of the beloved. These narcissists are magicians! Pulling rabbits & other extraordinary displays out of thin air! All so sensational! But totally lacking in content or substance. Don't be fooled by shallow thrills & excitement which stimulates the senses, but, really does not carry any lasting emotional content. The displays of flowers, gifts, activities (travel, dinners, amazing sex)--that's all for him & his enjoyment (not yours). These activities are not to gratify you. Your reactions of pleasure gratify him. (Hey. Why do so many women fake orgasm? For him. Not herself.) When you or I are no longer a stage for his version of a Pepsi commercial, he moves on. Looks for another stage to perform his magic. Why we are no longer a stage? What did we do wrong? Could we have done something different to make it last? I doubt it because in a romantic relationship there are two who are balancing their needs & interests. It's a partnership based on mutual respect & concern for the needs of the other. THE NEEDS OF THE OTHER. A narcissist cannot concern himself with the needs of another, when those needs of the other inevitably present, the N vanishes. If he stays, he must devalue the object as part of the gratification of his needs. ipnarcmagnet, you are so lucky this N took off after 6 weeks. Some women end up trapped for years and decades with narcissistic abuse. All hooked on the dream of romance which presented itself in the early days of the so-called relationship.

#4 Jan 26 - 6AM

Barbara (not verified)

lpnarcmagnet

you don't play ANY game you have 18 months to work on you - worry about romance in 18 months... NOT NOW. Now you need to heal, deprogram and get yourself back on track! Worry about YOU! romance is for books & movies - you want something HEALTHY & NORMAL (predators love women who are desperate to be "in a relationship") http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/04/01/healthy-love-what-world http://howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com/2008/02/love-love-love-will-i-ever-find-mine.html And get HOW TO SPOT A DANGEROUS MAN and read it! https://www.e-junkie.com/ecom/gb.php?ii=136236&c=cart&aff=21165&ejc=2 ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website

#5 Jan 26 - 2PM (Reply to #2)

Kelly

18 Months!

Woah! I was with this guy for only 6 weeks! Grant it, he's is hopefully the last in a string of narcissists and abusers for the past 4 years. I would heal for six months or so and boom, right back on that roller coaster (usually lasting for about six weeks-two month mark. Except for my first real, no doubt about it narcissist which was almost six months.) I'm reading . . . Thanks for all the articles and book suggestions. What do you think of "Disarming the Narcissist?" It's both for people who have to deal with narcissists in their lives and for self exploration - why I get hooked by them. I'm about halfway through. The book suggests that all hope is not lost when dealing with narcissists. That although VERY rare - - the narcissist needs to be willing to get help (which is VERY VERY rare,) that through "schema therapy" he could be helped. I'm pretty darn sure my dad is a narcissist and my mom has her own PD (she has very strong narc traits and is extremely manipulative and self-centered.) - I don't want to throw labels on them, but after everything I've learned, I can't deny the possibility that they are both narcissistic and that I've been attracted to narcissists because I've been trained from childhood to tolerate that behavior. That on some twisted level, I actually might be compelled to want to please these people. This book talks about schema's like the buttons that you have built in. The narcissist knows your buttons and knows how to push them to play you like a violin. I think I've got a few buttons, but mainly, I'm seeking the approval and affection I didn't get from my parents. I'm learning so much about myself. Life changing stuff (hopefully.) Also, in this culture, I'm beginning to fear that they ARE all narcissistic. Maybe not NPD, but this society BREEDS narcissism! Books like "The Rules" "Why Men Marry Bi@#$" "Get a Man by Thinking Like One" Just train women to accept this behavior and that's it's just the way it is. That he is right and she is just stupid for not playing the game. There are rules I like for setting up initial boundaries, but once he's got me hooked, all bets are off and I'm on cloud oxytocin!

#6 Jan 27 - 1PM (Reply to #7)

Ellen

that book upset me

Hi, I Have spent my life trying to change men. Now i didn't want to follow anymore guidelines on how to change the worst ones. I also mentioned that book on here cos it really threw me and i started to blame myself some more and do magical thinking.

#7 Jan 27 - 2PM (Reply to #8)

Steph

i hate those types of books

i hate those types of books too...changing men. everytime i pass one in the bookstore it makes my stomache quesy because it's reinforcing the negative thoughts i already have...like i caused something or i can change something in someone else. look at how hard it is for women affected by disordered people to reverse the damage these guys do to our thought processes. i mean, we know for ourselves it's hard enough to change OUR OWN distorted thoughts, yet we somehow seem to think we're capable of changing their thoughts/behaviours?? and if we can't it's our fault? it's so stupid!

#8 Jan 27 - 4PM (Reply to #9)

Barbara (not verified)

you can't help, fix, manage, cure or disarm a NARC

exactly - those books & websites about DISARMING THE NARC or SURVIVING AND THRIVING WITH THE NARC or CURING THE NARC? They feed and make MONEY off of victim's MAGICAL THINKING. Magical thinking is VERY VERY TOXIC. It is not dealing with reality. The reality is that these guys are even sicker than I can explain with words. You can't help or manage them: http://howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com/2008/09/illusion-of-management.html but you CAN HELP YOURSELF - with No Contact and getting as far away from them as fast as you can! ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website

#9 Jan 27 - 5PM (Reply to #10)

Kelly

Tucker Max

There is a book I started reading before I began learning about narcissism and psychopathy. I just read it last night. With the insight I know have, reading "I Hope They Serve Beer in Hell" I could see just how sick and twisted the life of narcissist can be. I finished the chapter he wrote about about the girl who beat him at his own game. He writes: "Fuck it. If I can beat her, choke her, shove things into her ass and get incredible head on the toilet, and STILL not find her limits, then she wins. I can't go any further." . . . "I honestly thought I was beat. I even got a little depressed, and started moping around South Florida, unsure what to do next. But in a stroke of amazing Tucker Luck, I broke her totally by accident, in a way I never would have imagined. Three days later, she sat me down at dinner and said, in a very somber tone: "Tucker, you need to get serious with me, or we can't keep seeing each other. It is humiliating to me that I am seeing a man that my friends know is also seeing other women." "I didn't even know what to say. I really didn't. I was totally stupefied by that sentence. Did this girl actually think I would seriously date her? Is this a joke? It may be a double standard, and I may be an asshole, but how the fuck am I supposed to have any respect for a girl who would do the things she did? Especially with ME of all people? "At the time, I could only muster one response" "HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH . . . . Wait, wait . . . HAHAHAHAHA" pg.149 After reading that, although I didn't do the do the degrading things this girl does with Tucker and I did have meaningful (what I believed were) conversations with my last ex N and was led to believe by him that he was serious about me, I couldn't help but relate in some way. In our pre-breakup conversation, my ex narc actually said this regarding me asking if I was his girlfriend: "Where do you get the balls?" "I don't even date girls who are not pure white Ashkanazi/Jewish seriously." When we were dating, he would stop conversations to comment on how beautiful I was, especially for my dark complexion. Ignorant jerk. What's even more crazy, he's got the same kind of ethnic background as mine! His brother and father have even darker skin than my own! I love my ethnicity and he led me on to believe that it was a bonus quality, just to use it to try to devalue me later on.

#10 Jan 27 - 6PM (Reply to #12)

Barbara (not verified)

jerks

I believe Lisa & I discussed him on one of the BlogTalkRadio shows when his book was first released. he's a d*ckhead. ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website

#11 Jan 27 - 6PM (Reply to #11)

agnesmurphy17

Enough!

On top of everything else, the man is racist! Really, one can change behaviors, not personality or character. Cluster-B personality disorders are the most insidious. Any mental health professional will tell you that. That you recognize that some of your closest family members are Ns may be the key to your breaking the cycle. Regognise what healthy boundries are & then understand how your family of origin transgressed the boundries. In the future, you will spot men who transgress boundries immediately. Although one is lonely & wishes for love & companionship. Learning how to define oneself (especially when one is trying to rid oneself of self-destructive behaviors) is very difficult to do in a relationship. A relationship requires compromise & flexible boundries (within healthy limits). A romantic distraction may inhibit introspection because a romance requires one to look outwards to the beloved.

#12 Jan 26 - 5PM (Reply to #3)

Barbara (not verified)

lpnarcmagnet

You can NOT: DISARM a Narcissist (book is full of magical thinking) LIVE WITH a Narcissist MANAGE a Narcissist SURVIVE & THRIVE with a Narcissist No. You can not. I know all about Schema. Should be SCHEME. Doesn't do much but put teach them how to be more covert with their behavior. get and read HOW TO SPOT A DANGEROUS MAN asap I was dealing with Psycho-Boy for 22 months. Took me well over 4 years to heal from the trauma. Sorry - its 18 months - that is NON-NEGOTIABLE. That's a guess. A MINIMUM guess. And at LEAST 1 year in therapy working on you. Why are you so DESPERATE to start dating again???????? I think about this with Psycho-Boy once in a while. His wife defends him to the death... even helping him attack me, a woman she's never met and he only "told her" about... yet he was off spending THOUSANDS on high-end hookers during his work lunch hours (now he's unemployed and she GLADLY pays his bills)... ...he came home and played good husband and father, had dinner with his family... then hopped on line and j/o to some porn babe while telling various vulnerable women he 'didn't love his wife, was in love with them and would be with them soon.' Not only are men cruel to women but WOMEN ARE PROGRAMMED TO TAKE IT. We are FORCE FED a LIE since childhood about how we can ONLY BE HAPPY IF WE ARE IN A RELATIONSHIP. And SOME MAN WILL SOLVE ALL OUR PROBLEMS FOR US. In fact, we are SOOOOO programmed and desperate to be MARRIED or a COUPLE that we will put up with most disrespectful, heinous treatment to be WITH SOMEONE. We even let our children watch us be mistreated by some idiot so they learn the same thing (thinking 'every child NEEDS their father' - heck WHAT kind of 'father' is that??)... then we plunk them down in front of some Disney nonsense and reinforce this cycle. We sit around in learned helplessness hoping some Prince Charming will come along and rescue poor little us, refusing to see that by being helpless or constantly looking for 'Mr. Right' we are simply fresh meat for predators. Or we complain to our mothers or other women and they refuse to believe us, refuse to 'get it' or say "well, honey, men are just like that and we women just have to put up with it." DV cases of marital rape and teenage dating abuse are rising at HORRENDOUS rates... and that's just the people who report it! Why is that? Because we PUT UP WITH IT and/or DON'T REPORT IT. We are own worst enemies. It's not just bad men. Women continue to believe in nonsense like "hope" rather than waking up and learning that evil exists and learning what pathology is. They cling to nonsense that "love conquers all" when love can not conquer a disordered soulless non-human. They jump RIGHT BACK onto online dating because 'a have friend who met someone nice online' or 'that was just an anomoly' despite the TRUTH that ONLINE DATING IS UNBELIEVABLY DANGEROUS FOR WOMEN!! They clutch with a death grip the baloney that there's "some good in everyone" when some people are just plain bad, evil and not worth the effort. And because of all this magical thinking - when a pathological finally shows them WHAT HE TRULY IS - they hang in there 'just a little longer' because they "BELIEVE IN LOVE" even when they are being drained dry by evil. And we avoid dealing with reality, some avoid getting the long term therapy they NEED TO SURVIVE or just decide to not listen when someone speaks to truth to them because it's not what they want to hear. We want to be loved so bad we are willing to put up with a cheap imitation rather than what we deserve - THE REAL DEAL. ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website

#13 Jan 26 - 9PM (Reply to #4)

rache

Disarming the narcissist

Is like trying to stop someone who has a loaded m-16,and,you with a fly swatter! These people are just TOO adept at what they do and they ADAPT to suit themselves NEVER anyone else!

#14 Jan 27 - 4PM (Reply to #5)

4joys4

My mom always said that the

My mom always said that the word "love" should be taken out of my brain. She emphasizes "care." Anyone can toss the love word about. Anyone can say they are in love. But the care...now that's harder to find. I don't want those in love feelings anymore. I wouldnt mind, in the future, having a male friend to do things with, but I never want to fall in love ever again. I mean, look at the words we use. They give a clue as to what we are doing. FALLING in love. IN love..like it's a box! It's time we taught our daughters and other women that the knight in shining armor does not exist. We are our own heros. We need to save ourselves. We need to make our lives what we want it to be without another person in it. I don't want to be under any man's spell. My mom says a nice man who is like a companion would be a good thing for me. Well, not now. Maybe not ever. But I've really awaken from this sleep of lies we are told as little girls. It took me many many years and failed relationships, but I'm awake. Thank God I'm awake.

#15 Jan 27 - 7PM (Reply to #6)

ForeverLearning

Wonderful Advice - Thinking From The "Care" Perspective

Thanks so much for sharing that perspective. To forget about the word "love" for a moment and instead insert the word "care". That really helped me look at the entire relationship situation from a different perspective. Thanks!

Path Forward Buy Now Reviews
All About Her Buy Now Reviews
All About Him Buy Now Reviews