still sturggling with guilt, blaming myself... is he really an N?

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#1 May 18 - 3PM
littlestbird
littlestbird's picture

still sturggling with guilt, blaming myself... is he really an N?

my counselor alluded to the idea that he might be an N or at least has N traits.

my best friend called him a narcissistic sociopath long before the counselor said so.

my mom would tell me when i called he hysterical that i sounded like a "battered woman"

my sister pointed out immediately when i confided in her that he was manipulating me.

my dad says he's a jerk who only cares about himself. "why would he want a girlfriend?" i ask him. he replies, "to show it off just like he would a nice car, new piece of technology or a fancy watch."

and still, 3 weeks now and NC.

still i suffer from these feelings that it was all my fault, that i was just not strong enough to deal with all his demands... that i didn't respect him. he "knew what was right for me" ... but i was disobedient. he resented me for basically living with him while i found a healthier living situation for myself... when someone says "i love you," i would think they would be partially thrilled to live temporarily with their love, as was the case. but he wanted me out of there so fast, demanding his "space" and that it would be "better" for our relationship and that i just had to deal with the bed i had made for myself which, "wasn't so bad." no empathy. and yet... i still feel like it was my fault for being one of those rare emotional creatures.

oh, and he says, "i know what an N is, and i'm certainly not one of them"

the evidence is there. it's all there.

and now i am on meds and in therapy while i recently found out that the way he is dealing with the break up by going on a vacation. typical: onto the next adventurous fun. forget coming to terms with anything. i am in no place to truly enjoy a vacation right now, i am so broken. but he...he is certainly ready to get the eff out and party. i hate him, and myself.

May 21 - 11PM
helldweller
helldweller's picture

On meds

I feel for you. I went into therapy and on massive antidepressants that made me insane. I almost drove into a car on Thanksgiving morning because I was so drugged out because my N wouldn't take my daughters and I to his friend's house for dinner. He saw it happen, came out of his house, said, "You're a mess," drove us to my aunt's house, and went to his Thanksgiving dinner without us. In fact, the way I acted when on drugs gave him most of his best "ammunition" against me, as they made me lash out finally--at him and his friends--and led to him totally cutting me out of his life and being able to blame ME for it, because I "don't know how to act." I agree, get off the meds and live life. That's the drug we all need: to be ourselves again.
May 22 - 2AM (Reply to #24)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

meds are not inherently bad for everyone

Please don't encourage people to get off meds some people need them and they do help many I am still on daily Zoloft most victims of pathologicals need an MILD, LOW DOSE antidepressant because these predators LITERALLY change our hormones and our brains & brain chemistry. Live life and if you need meds - find the right ones at the right dose and HELP YOURSELF heal! ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
May 22 - 5AM (Reply to #25)
Scoop
Scoop's picture

Meds are helping me , the

Meds are helping me , the last thing I wanted to do was admit I needed them because it felt like he had won , we are lucky to live in a time that these low dose meds are there to help us just imagin what women went through 50 years ago it makes me go cold . I'm not going to be on them forever as I have faith I will get over this and go on to a narc free happy life .
May 21 - 9PM
Carolyn
Carolyn's picture

The man who put you on meds

The man who put you on meds has no feelings for others. They are manipulative, have no loyalty, empathy, sympathy or respect for others. You were badly hurt by a man who likes hurting women. There are many other ways of dealing with the bad experience you have just had. Instead of meds take a yoga class, understand what your family and friends are telling you, don't worry about him take this as a bad learning experience and move on. You were emotionally savaged by a monster but there is life after these people. You will restore your confidence but he will never be normal
May 19 - 5PM
Susan32
Susan32's picture

How could I be so stupid?

I remember saying that after being publicly D&D'd. My ex-N made sure I wasn't humiliated publicly once (by being reduced to tears in front of my friends),but twice (when I met the OW from LA) I sobbed to one of my friends,over and over,"How could I be so stupid?" I had fallen in love with a man more enamored of himself than anyone else (I didn't see the OW as a rival, really) Here I was, I was supposed to be smart... and I was gullible enough to fall for a con game. I no longer trusted myself, let alone other people. Here I was, heartbroken, crying myself to sleep... and my ex-N was engaged. And it felt like a punch in the stomach when I heard of the wedding and the pair having kids.... I did hate myself. I was constantly blaming myself too. How could I have stuck with a fake for 4 years???? What was wrong with me???
May 19 - 5PM (Reply to #16)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

stupid

brainwashing mind control cognitive dissonance have you ever spoken to a therapist, at length, if you have a history of being attracted to emotionally unavailable men? ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
May 19 - 5PM (Reply to #17)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Maybe I should

I think it's a good idea,and I probably should. I think what got me about my ex-N was that I was ACCUSTOMED to being rejected (or rejecting) in an upfront, honest way. I was USED to a guy saying he had another girl, wasn't interested, or was into other guys. So my ex-N basically put me through an emotional rollercoaster I hadn't ever experienced before. I was USED to ending relationships on adult terms, such as "We're not meant for each other" or "this isn't working out." My ex-N didn't end it that way. Thanks for the reminders. The self-blame is EASY to fall into, especially when the N dishes it out.
May 19 - 10PM (Reply to #18)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Susan32

you do know we don't allow people to remain on this board who aren't in ongoing therapy, right? ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
May 20 - 5PM (Reply to #19)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Looking for counseling

I know my job offers mental health help... I'll look at my insurance plan. There are counselors in my area.
May 20 - 7PM (Reply to #20)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Susan32

http://ptsd.factsforhealth.org/help/searchclinic1.asp ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
May 20 - 9PM (Reply to #21)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

That's a helpful link

I'm going to have to cast a wider net... there aren't any in my immediate zip code.
May 19 - 3PM
narcnarcwhosthere (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

KNOWING FOR SURE.....

i always dreamed of knowing for sure...but it would have entailed having his brain removed and sent in a cooler to Dr. Robert Hare....for him to be stamped and certified PSYCHOPATH....that would have been very validating....but other than Robert Hare's opinion....i don't care.....i know he was a psychopath...to the bone...... “I do not bring forgiveness with me, nor forgetfulness. The only ones who can forgive are dead; the living have no right to forget." - Chaim Herzog
May 19 - 3PM
narcnarcwhosthere (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

KNOWING FOR SURE.....

i always dreamed of knowing for sure...but it would have entailed having his brain removed and sent in a cooler to Dr. Robert Hare....for him to stamped and certified PSYCHOPATH....that would have been very validating....but other than Robert Hare's opinion....i don't care.....i know he was a psychopath...to the bone...... “I do not bring forgiveness with me, nor forgetfulness. The only ones who can forgive are dead; the living have no right to forget." - Chaim Herzog
May 19 - 6PM (Reply to #12)
quietude (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

psycho-N's brain

Yes, it would have been the one in the big jar marked "Abby-normal" ;)
May 19 - 10PM (Reply to #13)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

pickled brain

no formaldehyde needed just dump in a bottle of Popov Vodka. It'd be right at home ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
May 19 - 2PM
narcnarcwhosthere (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

what my darling irish granny would say on this subject.........

she would say........'if it smells like SHIT..then it's shit..and it would be a waste of time to worry about what kind of SHIT it is'.......... if he acts like a Narc...then he's most likely a Narc...and if he's not a Narc he's still a piece of shit.....and needs to be dealt with accordingly....... getting us to believe we're to blame is their most powerful weapon.....don't let him use it on you........and don't pick it up and use in on yourself..... “I do not bring forgiveness with me, nor forgetfulness. The only ones who can forgive are dead; the living have no right to forget." - Chaim Herzog
May 19 - 4PM (Reply to #9)
Scoop
Scoop's picture

Hi five to the Irish sisters

Hi five to the Irish sisters !
May 19 - 4PM (Reply to #10)
Janet
Janet's picture

Yo, yo Irish! Peace. J

Yo, yo Irish! Peace. J

Peace. J

May 18 - 6PM
littlestbird
littlestbird's picture

how can anyone know for sure?

how can anyone truly know? he has most of the behaviors of an N, and the destruction of such is proof of my current state of being. but it's not like he was psychoanalyzed and diagnosed... i mean, he's too proud to go near a therapist! so i will never know if that's what he actually "is" or if it is something else. like he's just a "jerk" or i'm just "weak" or simply we just had a really "unhealthy unbalanced relationship" and there was nothing we could do about it. either way, i was wholly unsatisfied with him as a friend and lover. i have to keep telling myself that so i stop playing his voice and things he would say over and over in my head. he SEEMS like an N... to a T! i just feel like i am in denial about it, like, that would make it too scary. i mean, this group, books on narcissism, etc have helped me. if they help, does that mean something?
May 18 - 4PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

littlest bird

http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/03/20/cognitive-dissonance-obsessional-thoughts if he isn't - you're on the wrong support group ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
May 18 - 6PM (Reply to #2)
littlestbird
littlestbird's picture

how can anyone know for sure?

sorry this was in reply to your comment... how can anyone truly know? he has most of the behaviors of an N, and the destruction of such is proof of my current state of being. but it's not like he was psychoanalyzed and diagnosed... i mean, he's too proud to go near a therapist! so i will never know if that's what he actually "is" or if it is something else. like he's just a "jerk" or i'm just "weak" or simply we just had a really "unhealthy unbalanced relationship" and there was nothing we could do about it. either way, i was wholly unsatisfied with him as a friend and lover. i have to keep telling myself that so i stop playing his voice and things he would say over and over in my head. he SEEMS like an N... to a T! i just feel like i am in denial about it, like, that would make it too scary. i mean, this group, books on narcissism, etc have helped me. if they help, does that mean something?
May 18 - 10PM (Reply to #5)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

littlestbird

if he's not N he's too toxic for you to be around that's for sure. But if everything fits... then you have to be honest with yourself and GET ANGRY that you were targeted and lured/ lied to/ used by a PREDATOR. who cares what he SAYS? if their lips are moving they're LYING. you did NOTHING WRONG ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller
May 19 - 2PM (Reply to #6)
quietude (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

agree

It was good for me to put a name to what my ex was....Narcissist... it helped piece together so many things. My ex was pretty vanilla too, so in the beginning, I had some doubts as well. I was also hoping there was something more I could do to help the situation...fought until I realized it wasn't possible to have any kind of relationship with a person like this. littlestbird, I think that even if you are torn as far as what he might officially be as far as disorders go, he is STILL a very toxic person who is unheathly to be around, muchless having an intimate relationship with...
May 18 - 6PM (Reply to #3)
Byrde
Byrde's picture

We will probably never know for "sure"

I totally understand your struggle with this. Everyday I wonder if my ex is really a N or is it me. I have to force my mind to remember all the N things he did and remind myself that I really did not do anything wrong -- except love him unconditionally. It hasn't seemed to get any easier for me, but the reading and researching has helped me to see things clearer. I think I will always wonder to some degree, but maybe once my self-esteem fully returns I may come to a better acceptance / understanding.
May 19 - 10AM (Reply to #4)
ACgirl
ACgirl's picture

Toxic is a GREAT word to use for Ns

Barbara used an excellent word..."Toxic". That is what these Ns are. No matter how we may try to wonder...are they or aren't they, they are toxic to us not matter what. You should, we should, NOT be reasonable about that. I ALWAYS wondered was my N "doing it up" with someone else. He always did that "crazy making" double talk. I always felt anxiety in the pit of my stomach. His emotions always turned on a dime. One moment he was soooooo in love with me and didn't want to loose me, the other moment he was..."hurting because he just broke it off with someone else". What the F!! Do you see? It's crazy making and toxic and that is all you need to know. He lied about so many things. I never knew where he was really at. We did have about 5 months together where I thought he was really committed to me. But I found out a year later that he was still keeping some woman (half is age) on the back burner and seeing her from time to time and I didn't know!! When I asked him about that he said..."Well, I was at least 95% committed to you?". Can you believe that?? Toxic. That is what these men do. They are poison. The more I read here, the more I see it. Toxic is poison. Please don't take in toxic anymore. I have been NC for a few weeks now. I am going to try to stay off that toxic drug. I love my life and my kids. I don't want to poison myself. Stay strong with all of us!!