So different today~

Not to burst your bubble but my ex NH went to one counseling session and said no more. He said he didn't need someone to tell him how messed up he was. We too had the cars, big house, boat, RV, 2 beautiful daughters and lot's of money. Even all that was not enough, it never is. These men always think there is something better out there. Doubt your is any different, sorry.

We went to therapy. After 3 visits my N was convinced that the therapist was not the best choice for him. He felt that she wasn't intelligent enough to handle his complexities. He felt that his real problem was his level of genius and that's what separates him from others. Mind you he didn't say it exactly in this manner but it was the underlying meaning. Funny coming from a guy that cant even spell!

The comments here are pretty much correct. The N/S/P's are never going to change, they can't change! That being said, if you want a quick answer for yourself try this: Tell him, don't ask him, you are going to go to the first meeting with whomever he decides to talk to. And that you want to talk as well. If agrees, then go and state in facts what's been happening. If he truly is not a N/S/P he will be fine with that because he has a real desire to change. He also needs to be able to state truthfully what he's been doing to you. If he doesn't want you to go, rages, turns the blame on you, or lies when he gets to the session, then you have your answer. Then get out as fast as you possibly can! Either way just asking to go will give you some insight. In the mean time stay on here. Keep learning and getting support. Hang in there!

Lucy, I just read your story, sorry for the abuse he is putting you through. Start a journal (if you don't have one already) and educate yourself on Narcissism and Psychopaths. Read the posts on this board. We all felt love and yet were treated in a way that is unloving. The N I was with went to therapy twice during the time I spent with him. He sat there and lied to the therapist and to me I was hopeful so many times. Be aware, you know something is not right. This is your life, you have choices when you are honest with yourself. Want what is right. I read today (on this board I think) that you cannot compartmentalize you life, if there is evil in part of it and you are turning a blind eye to it, it will seep into the rest. Peace. J

He's in the reconcilation phase http://www.squidoo.com/cycleofabuse An the abuser may make all kinds of promises to get you back, and even go to therapy but -- it is unlikely they will change AND they are only doing it to keep you (a control element) READ: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com/2007/01/ill-change-i-promise-six-signs-of-real.html Is there hope for an N? READ: http://www.lisaescott.com/2010/03/07/there-hope-narcissist Lucy - GET OUT NOW. ~~~~~~~~~ Moving Forward: Coaching for Victims Pathologicals Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller

I have never seen a Borderline do any lasting harm to anyone, though I have seen them blamed for a lot they didn't do, and a lot that never happened. Yet I have frequently seen psycho/narcissistic personality types torture or stifle real human beings by millimeters. I look now at my life, the life that never happened. The narcissists is gone, safe at last. My physical health is broken past recovery, in tiny little day to day ways. I never had time, or a reason to take care of it, or learn how. I love and am loved in a way I trust as surely as the ground beneath my feet....... But there is nothing inside me that even feels entitled to survival. I lived in an isolated in a psycho/narcissistic environment, where to care about anything except you was a mental illness, where "truth" was whatever he wanted it to be, not sometimes, not under pressure, but as a way of life. The only people and behaviors I had a chance to be familiar with are psycho/narcissistic, and constantly destructive. A world of lies that exists only in two polyester dimensions. Where nothing tells the truth reliably, not even the clocks. I have escaped at last, but everything outside is so unfamiliar to me, alien, I don't even know the basics, everything I have to deal with is a massive undertaking. I will never be able to function normally, or comfortably. Not even on the simplest levels. Very few like me make it out alive. I don't care about me, I'm carefully programmed not to after all. But what of the rest? Even the one's who lie in neglected graves, scapegoat in death, as I was intended to be? Literally manipulated to death......... NO!!!!!!!!! Sorry, lies, manipulations, concealed agenda can damage as much and as surely as bullets and knives. It's just a lot harder to prove and prevent. Almost impossible to contain. I have never seen a narcissist recover, they can't, they have nothing to gain by recovery after all, and everything to lose. They go on damaging others, and the rationalizations get more expert over time. And people, often the most innocent, go on getting hurt, through no fault of their own, with very little choice in the matter. The Narcissist will always survive, by lying, cheating, stepping on others, threats and intimidation. The survival of the victims is not thus guaranteed. They have priority. But even after that, what on earth is gained by funding Narcissist to tell bigger and better lies? Rationalize and justify themselves in new, more effective ways and go on grinding other people into dust as usual? Because that is ALL that would happen. What, after all, is the life of an Narcissist but one long confidence trick? That is never benign? Society needs to pour its funds into containing the capacity to harm of psycho/narcissistic personality types. Before having any claim on healing, or the compassion of society, the Narcissist must first be contained (in a REAL sense) his capacity to harm. Anonymous

Don't Narcs provide for everything, you want something from Macy's,,,boom done. Don't Narcs take you (don't even know you want) to go out to dinner Monday, he takes you out EVERY MONDAY to your new favorite resturaunt,, Don't Narcs take you for a stroll down then most romantic forest preserves. Don't Narcs have such courtesy of your feelings, I mean it is so sensitive of them to touch you up your skirt, you know you want that. Don't Narcs have such a way with comforting you, bringing you comfort, I mean comfort. We are talking cloud 59 comfort..... Don't Narcs have such an awesome way of sexually harrasing the people he works with,,,I mean really,,he is so smooth! Don't Narcs have such a keen responsibility on Fatherhood, I mean, yeah, it is a woman's work to clothe them, feed them, educate them, take them on travels,,,silly me. Don't Narcs have such a great way with money, that they can afford to take out and live with so many other woman, other than me? Don't Narcs have such a great way with people, I mean that they have seperate photo albums for each day of the week, and each job that they hold.. WOW! That is organized. I really respect the Narc, how slithery and slimy they are, they don't, wait they do, moisturize. That must be their secret..... Yeah, it is confusing when you look at the facts.

Don't Narcs provide for everything, you want something from Macy's,,,boom done. Don't Narcs take you (don't even know you want) to go out to dinner Monday, he takes you out EVERY MONDAY to your new favorite resturaunt,, Don't Narcs take you for a stroll down then most romantic forest preserves. Don't Narcs have such courtesy of your feelings, I mean it is so sensitive of them to touch you up your skirt, you know you want that. Don't Narcs have such a way with comforting you, bringing you comfort, I mean comfort. We are talking cloud 59 comfort..... Don't Narcs have such an awesome way of sexually harrasing the people he works with,,,I mean really,,he is so smooth! Don't Narcs have such a keen responsibility on Fatherhood, I mean, yeah, it is a woman's work to clothe them, feed them, educate them, take them on travels,,,silly me. Don't Narcs have such a great way with money, that they can afford to take out and live with so many other woman, other than me? Don't Narcs have such a great way with people, I mean that they have seperate photo albums for each day of the week, and each job that they hold.. WOW! That is organized. I really respect the Narc, how slithery and slimy they are, they don't, wait the do, moisturize. That must be their secret..... Yeah, it is confusing when you look at the facts.

is a narcissist/ psychopath/ antisocial.. etc there will likely be no sustainable change. The pathology precludes it. Sure ... they may have those days when they 'cry'.... "I wish I weren't this way!" I have a LONG email written to me by my ex last year ... after I explained his diagnosis to him and told him I've had quite enough! (I did it bc I'm a psychologist... so it carried some weight --- it's not something I recommend you do). Anyway-- my ex had a little moment of clarity (rolling eye smiley) and even used the statement he "self sabotages" every relationship and that he wanted to be better. Sounds like Jesse James, huh?! Told me in the email that he knew the pain he caused me and hoped that I could forgive him. I might (if I can stomach looking at his email dig it up and let you see how unbelievably sincere it "looked") Fast forward to the following week and he was 'over it' ... didn't think a thing was wrong with him... back to blaming me, projecting, raging, back to the arrogant, flawless, creature that he felt he was! I bet many others on this board have also been through the whole "I wish I weren't this way" ; "I don't want to hurt you", "I will get treatment and get fixed" --- however like I said their pathology prevents them from sustaining change. They don't/ can't get better. You may want to read some of the works specialist like Robert Hare... he discusses that he too was conned by them, however I have never read in his works that they get better.... change and move forward to treat their partners better. Actual N/Ps can't do it. It is a neurobiological disorder... not one that can be changed by changing one's thoughts or having discussing in therapy. The best the doctor can do is teach him to manage some of his behaviors... however THAT will require your husband's full and constant cooperation (not likely to happen if he is an N/P). I don't know him obviously, I can only speak regarding what I know about the pathology and pathology doesn't change by discussing coping strategies.... Read about the neurobiology of narcissism and psychopathy and then you will see clearly that their brain's process information differently and that is something that can never be changed. It is what it is. At BEST... I mean absolute best he may be able to manage some of the behaviors (with the help of his doctor and meds --- however this is unlikely) .... however there will never be a change to the underlying neuropathology. So basically that means NO sustainable change. What you see before you is who he is and likely who he will always be. Sorry :-( I know the feeling of wanting it to work out... feeling in love. My ex is a multimillionaire with beautiful homes, cars, etc. We went on amazing trips and had unbelievable fun (well... at least I did - he was a bit boring)... but the lifestyle was truly one of the rich and whatever. He was a hard worker..... however he was/is also a psychopath and that trumps all the wonderful presents and luxury he gave me. I wanted for nothing material while with him. However, bc of his behavior I was always broken hearted and anxious. I wanted more than anything to stay with him... make it work. Even went after him when he D&D'd me. I was so attached, in love, and bonded. However, it doesn't change that he is a pathological and despite all that he brought to my life he was also dangerous to me emotionally. IF your husband is a pathological being ... you won't be able to get your happily ever after from him. Despite that you and your children sooooooo deserve it.