The resistance to acceptance of the disorder is self doubt...

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#1 Oct 3 - 11PM
Sunafterrain
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The resistance to acceptance of the disorder is self doubt...

A rough day today....

But more enlightenment at the end of the day it seems...

During our relationshits with the disordered, one of the things that they do is create much self doubt. We doubt ourselves to be able to live within the pathological bonds of the relationshit. We have too. It is a survival mechanism.

Consequently, it dawned on me, that this carries on in the aftermath. Part of the slime the disordered left all of us with in some form or another.

I wonder if part of why it is so difficult to accept the disorder is related to the self doubt we are left with. Not denial, that's different, but DOUBT, and doubting myself creates fear, kicks in magical, unrealistic thinking about the disordered one then I have to counter that with CONFIDENCE IN REALITY, saying things to myself that are seem so insignificant, but remove the doubt I have like "Sunny, listen, this man is TOTALLY ABUSIVE and with the severity of the abuse, it would take YEARS for someone to overcome, if EVER". I began to realize today that when I doubt, I lose my grounding. My feet leave terra firma. I have to learn to TRUST myself and my instincts and if I doubt and start to fear, fill it up with what I know is TRUE and FACT about it all. Suddenly, I'll feel peaceful, okay in the moment. I LIVE for those moments as they become more clear to me.

In Thomas Sheridan's book (not going verbatim here, cuz I don't have the book right with me now), he discusses psychopathy as the person either being psychopathic or NOT psychopathic. This is apart of the doubt. I'm also inclined to agree that ALL of the Cluster B's, no matter what they are, all fall under psychopathy. NPD is being dropped from the new DSM. It will be interesting to see what the Cluster B's will be labeled then and there is great debate about it, but I do think Thomas is DEFINITELY onto something. lack of empathy, remorse, guilt. Core traits and everything flows from that in my opinion and that has never let me down. And the major thing that psychopaths everywhere want you to know is FEAR. Think about it in the world around us and in your relationshits. We fear because we doubt and we doubt because we fear.

For those of you struggling with NC, or believing that they somehow change later on, I can tell you that it isn't so. Last night, I received a call from my very first bf, first sexual encounter. This was from 25 years ago. ALL of my ex's (exception ex spouse who knows I want nothing to do with him), have contacted me within the last two years, with the same stupid lines. YEARS later. "You were the best sex I ever had" was the line given by ALL of them. And WITHOUT doubting, I can tell you that I know that NOT to be the truth. With maturity and age, we know that sex isn't the WHOLE of a relationship, but to a disordered one, it is. There is more to the absolute abuse he put me through and a lot of it ties into the last ex, but my triggers, my reactions are caused by DOUBT, then fear and then...well, you get the picture.

The biggest part of healing, I believe, is learning to trust yourself again. To remove the habit of self doubt that the psychopath sticks in your brain to survive the relationshit. None of us needs to do that anymore.

They are what they are. Pathology is pathology. It cannot be changed, it is REAL and the only FEAR that is real is self doubt and the only result of self doubt, is fear. Just what the psychopath wants you to believe.

Blessings.

Oct 4 - 11AM
TNR1
TNR1's picture

I have noticed that for me, I

I have noticed that for me, I wanted to give Mr. N the benefit of the doubt. I wanted to look for some deeper reason and meaning for his illogical texts, statements and actions/silent treatment. This was done in part because if I could "figure him out", I could figure out how not to "go there" again. It is my therapist who has always stated..."He is showing you exactly who he is...there is nothing deeper about him". That crushed me because I wanted it to work so badly and it took months of her telling me the same thing over and over again for it to finally click. You can't manipulate a manipulator. You can't relate to an alien (and that is what NPD is truly).
Oct 4 - 12PM (Reply to #12)
Caligirl
Caligirl's picture

TNR1, my therapist had said the same before my

r/s with exN that a guy will show himself very early on. I remembered this and tried to remind myself of it, but I had so much doubt and resistance. I too kept thinking I don't have him figured out yet or I must be incorrect bc he also does __ (a nice deed). I should have kept my eye on the bad signs. Hindsight:(
Oct 4 - 6PM
Caligirl
Caligirl's picture

Sunafterrain, I agree that self-doubt is a huge part

of our resistance. By the end of the relationsh!t our self-esteem is sooo low we question our judgment. I have a great example. In the first few months with my exNP we were long distance and hadn't met, so we were on the phone, having an argument to which he was mistaken about something he said (long story). I was being nice and asking for reassurance when he told me to "shut the f*ck up b!tch" and he would "break my leg" (yep, I was shocked and immediately said "did you just say...??") He then denied it and started trying to weasel his way out of it. Eventually, I broke into tears as he continued his cruelty. He hung up and then started ST. I tried of course to call back and then text to no avail. Having no thought or awareness about NPD or PDIs, etc, but at a time where my confidence was STILL pretty good, I told him to get lost and said he was a "monster" and a "sick f*ck." You see, no self-doubt or second guessing. My gut said "this isn't normal." Of course, we made up, I conceded to his charm I'm sure. He pointed out how I said those things later to make a point about how bad I am in another argument (and feigning "hurt"). God, I look back, and I was right on the money! He liked feisty women, and he likes fighting (even his family said), so I think he wasn't actually hurt about it, probably got off on it. Lol. I still haven't figured that out though, bc he also wanted to control me and make me submissive?? Another dichotomy! Thoughts? When we start to trust our true selves again, I think we won't resist as much. I still need work in that department. Almost forgot, just prior to this, I mentioned I think I had a fear of abandonment to which he said I'd be abandoned no more. Then proceeded to abandon me.
Oct 4 - 2AM
Puzzle
Puzzle's picture

Yes, you are spot on!!! I

Yes, you are spot on!!! I never realised how much self doubt plagued my life until 5 months out. I still have moments of self doubt but I no longer take hours, days, weeks to make decisions. I don't doubt my actions and choices as much now he is not in my life. It was pure agony to suffer so much self doubt I felt like I was useless. It is the self doubt that kept us there for so long. My self doubt largely stemmed from gas lighting. Now no one uses gas lighting or manipualtes me my self doubt has decreased significantly. I used to think it was just a part of who I am, but now I know I can't remember who I used to be before him, but without him I am slowly loosing this horrid aspect of my personality. Thank you for poiting this out. Self doubt is cancerous, I used to lay awake with anxiety over the simplest things, conversations, no longer!
Oct 4 - 2AM
ifinallygotit
ifinallygotit's picture

great post

lots to think about here...why we struggle accepting the disorder - the horror of the truth, why we were able to live with such craziness...why we continued to believe it would get better...the constant cycle of being disappointed and let down and then the fun times and denial again - such an awful cycle, I know I am lucky he moved across country but it still hurts... My old boyfriends (except the crazy psychopath) still try to contact me and I am in my 50's! They express regrets more than talk about the sex - all my long close relationships have been way too sexual and not enough true sharing and intimacy...my fears of abandonment no doubt (and boy did they come true). I do like sex alot but i was always asking exN for a richer, fuller relationship and to share more outside of the bedroom - he always said yes and then never would do anything with me (except have dinner). I am rambling...
Oct 4 - 1AM
Sea
Sea's picture

Yes self doubt

I read so much about Narcs who are physically abusive, sexual perverts, stalkers etc. My exN was none of these. He is very passive-aggresive. He loves ST, cruel "jokes", doesnt hoover. I compare my sufferings to others who have bern thru worse, I sometimes think he is not the worse! What am I thinking!! Seld doubt - yes.
Oct 4 - 1AM (Reply to #4)
Sunafterrain
Sunafterrain's picture

Sea

With everything I've read in your posts about your ex, sometimes the EMOTIONAL/PSYCHOLOGICAL abuse is worse, add to that (other than forums like this)those who cannot see the deep wounds and scars left on your psyche, makes it even HARDER to heal. Covert abuse is just as bad, if not worse than physical. I've had both. With physical I could see that fist coming With emotional/psychological/sexual, I never knew when it was coming. Hang in there and do not doubt!
Oct 4 - 2AM (Reply to #5)
Sea
Sea's picture

My exN is a diagnosed N. This

My exN is a diagnosed N. This fact brings me here and gives me the strength to hold on to NC. Even then i self doubt at times. I think u know I am in Asia. Over here there is no concept of Narc. My exN is a western man. He was diagnosed back in home country. He certainly display alot of N traits but he has the following "good points" that gives me alot if CD; 1. He never took or use my money. He got gifts that i bought for him thats all. 2. He was sweet and loving during sex. No sexual coercion or anything pervert 3. He pays for meals and was generous with presents (things that he likes not i like) 4. He left me alone after split, no hoover, no texts funny phone calls etc. He doesnt disturb or stalk me 5. He has never hit me But he abuse me mentally, controls, ST etc.
Oct 4 - 8AM (Reply to #6)
Sunafterrain
Sunafterrain's picture

Sea

Maybe part of the CD is that he didn't exhibit ALL of the traits. But it doesn't matter because it doesn't make him "kind of an N" or "Partially disordered". Some aren't very sexually deviant, mine wasn't. Only a little bit, but nevertheless, I was OBJECTIFIED. Just because a man never hits you doesn't mean he's NOT abusive, in fact emotional abuse can be worse. WOW, you actually have a diagnosis on him? That's a blessing in a way, sea! There should be no doubt that he's N if he's diagnosed! He's dangerous to you and really, I think you're coming along great, despite the CD. Just remember, just because he didn't do what you see some others disordered ones did here, does not mean he wasn't abusive in the extreme, or that he wasn't disordered. Hugs.
Oct 4 - 9AM (Reply to #7)
Sea
Sea's picture

I discovered his diagnosis by

I discovered his diagnosis by accident. How he was diagnosed I cant disclose here but of cos he wasnt willingly diagnosed. When I saw Narcissistic personality disorder on the report I have no idea what it was until I google and google. I asked him. He was furious but later admit there is indeed something wrong with him but he dont agree with that label. I agree with u there is nothing partial about his disorder. He is disordered. Period. But sometime I felt he does try to care for me and its very hard to believe all is 100% fake. At times his N side shows and he was cruel to me. I rem the many meals we had together he would take care that i eat enough and enjoyed. It pains me alot when i think of the good times. But like you say he is dangerous and abusive for that reason alone I have to let him go.
Oct 4 - 12AM
58 and going strong
58 and going strong's picture

The relationshiTs!!! Is that

The relationshiTs!!! Is that your creation?? That will be my favorite word of the year!--- Great post! No more fear here!
Oct 4 - 12AM (Reply to #2)
Sunafterrain
Sunafterrain's picture

58

No, I can't take credit for starting that. I first heard it from another blogger on another forum and it stuck with a lot of us. I LOVED it as it was SO TRUE! Good for you, 58!!!