OW OW OW

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#1 Jun 19 - 9AM

loveyourselffirst

OW OW OW

I have been reading but haven't really posted much. I am 5 months from final D&D and have little contact by email and rare phone call to discuss finances. He is a 'nice' narc - his abuse was subtle. I found out he had been cheating throughout our 20+ years together. (apparently my fault because I was not into sex - I found out I am co-dependent) I stayed despite so many ups and downs, thought I had changed him - NOT.

To make a long story short - I am convinced that he is a narc and know that they will always cheat - and yet I am obsessed with the OW (as so many of us are).

Will her willingness to do anything for him (sexually) keep him from cheating on her? They see each other mostly on weekends as she lives out of town and is waiting for a transfer so she can move in with him. Will things change when she lives with him day-in-day-out? I keep thinking of them together having fun while I am sitting here feeling sorry for myself. (I have alot of anxiety which is keeping me from moving forward and doing things)

I have a great therapist but progress is not fast enough for me - I feel like I've wasted so much time already.

This is a terrific community and I appreciate how everyone is so supportive of each other.

Thanks.

#2 Jun 20 - 7PM

Susan32

Is she an ally or a target?

Sam Vaknin has discussed, in detail, the differences between an N's allies and their targets (we've been them!) An ally would be considered a fellow Narc, bully, lackey, enabler. A target- someone like us. Someone normal. I was never sure if the ex-Psych prof's was an ally, his partner in crime, or a target-like me. It's not as if I ever got to know her. He had an LDR with her before she moved in with him during the final D&D. The ex-P would often project onto me, accusing me of being a Narc... but now I think he WANTED a fellow Narc as a partner. There was that joke my freshman year about how I wasn't his lesbian girlfriend... and believe me, when the girlfriend was revealed, people assumed she was one. So the jokes were prophetic. He'd accuse me of being a lesbian... but honestly, I think he wanted a lesbian partner, because she wouldn't seek emotional/sexual fulfillment in him. The ex-P's girlfriend dressed like him, looked like him. They acted&looked alike. He wanted a clone for a partner.

#3 Jun 19 - 7PM

TNR1

If he is an N, he will cheat on her as well....

I was the OW to an N, I can't even say that I was the only one. OW offer the N a break from reality, but do they treat the OW better?? I wasn't treated any better. I was treated as body parts and only saw him when it was convenient for him. I received all the typical Narc behaviors....silent treatment, cancellation of plans or not showing up, subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) put downs...I don't think anyone wins with a Narc.

#4 Jun 20 - 7PM (Reply to #28)

loveyourselffirst

We are all in the same boat -

wives or OW suffer equally. I hope that at some point the narc will lose as well.

#5 Jun 19 - 4PM

Monica

He will cheat on the OW, too....GUARANTEED

Even if he moves in with her (or she with him) it will all be a facade and he will be cheating on her. The length of their being together will depend on how long it takes for her to acknowledge what is going on and decide to get out. She may try to contact you. I tried to contact my xN's ex wife. She would not speak with me, but I with that she would have. I know what she must have gone through. It will be your call to speak with her or not. My xN had an OW even before he started to D&D me. He asked me after I walked out on him what I would say to "Sue" if I ever met her. I told him I never wanted to meet her (he could not even begin to fathom WHY) but, if I ever did meet her, I would give her my phone number and tell her to call me in a year or two, after she saw the truth about xN. He wondered why I wouldn't tell her what a great guy he was. FREAK!!!

#6 Jun 19 - 5PM (Reply to #26)

loveyourselffirst

I probably wouldn't speak to her but who knows

where I will be emotionally at that point. I also would not want to anger my stbxh because I don't want to deal with any retaliation. Good for you for being strong enough to walk away from him. I hope you weren't with him for too long. Thanks.

#7 Jun 19 - 4PM

onwithmylife

loveyourselffirst

YOU should contact victimnomore, if you need help ask michelle, she is one of our moderators, Michelle, that is, victim was married for 25 years to a kingsized narc and he was real damaging to her, but she is doing great now and has come a long way, a wonderful woman.....remember the golden rule,You can only change YOURSELF,never anyone else.... I, too, thought my love would make a difference , NOT.

#8 Jun 19 - 2PM

girlsinger

Hi C girl

Hi there saw your post I will be speaking with Sandra Brown on Monday she will be doing a day a week on the radio with me on PDI's I'll keep you posted yes she is fabulous be blessed k

#9 Jun 19 - 2PM

Cgrl

sandra Brown

Http://saferelationshipsmagazine.com/the-other-woman-now-hes-happy-with-her You need to visit the sandra brown website. She is my hero. Read. Paint your toes. Have a smoke. Dream big dreams for Yourself and live life. You finally have one. Hers is over.

#10 Jun 19 - 4PM (Reply to #22)

loveyourselffirst

I had read that particular column

but didn't realize how much more there was to the site. Thanks. I'm slowly allowing my self to dream that I have a future. It will take a little while longer to dream big.

#11 Jun 19 - 12PM

michele115 (not verified)

If she's a "good" doormat

They may last forever. The narc's mother was a perfect doormat and they've been together 40 years but she looks it. So, move forward, you woudln't want to be her. He won't change, he'll still cheat and everyday a bit of her soul will be depleted until she's been sucessfully traumabonded and trained. Unfortunate for her, but hey - we figured it out at some point be it twenty days, twenty months or twenty years and today can be the first day of your freedom. There is work to be done to really get over it - but there is still a life to be lived....we ain't dead yet! Hugs!

#12 Jun 19 - 12PM (Reply to #20)

loveyourselffirst

Trying to move forward

Therapy Therapy Therapy - I'm working hard but some days are harder than others. Hopefully she will be on the lookout for cheating since she knows he is capable. Thanks Michele

#13 Jun 19 - 9AM

agnesmurphy17

Obsessing about OW

There should be a permanent article somewhere with the header: "Does he treat OW better than me? Will they be happy? Will it work for her?" NO. The answer is NO. This OW is heading for a fall. Maybe life is good now because they do not live together & see each other only on weekends. N does not feel suffocated -- the intimacy is not getting to him, yet. The minute she moves in, he will start changing. (That's what happened to me.) Many of us here have had opportunity to discuss with this OW. I left my N & he started with a new woman the day I left. She left him after 10 months (she had already moved in after the 3rd month). She contacted me. We exchanged all his e-mails & his manufactured mythologies. Shameless liar. The layer-upon-layer of deceit is unfathomable. Also, I contacted his first ex-wife. That was an eye-opener as well. Any woman with a personality-disordered man is going to suffer & be miserable.

#14 Jun 20 - 7PM (Reply to #16)

Monica

Agnesmurphy...I wish his ex-wife would talk with me

I tried to contact her and she would not talk with me. Perhaps she, too, is trying to heal and purge him from her life and that is why she refuses to speak with me. I emailed her, told her I know what she had gone through and it she wanted to talk, I was here to talk anytime. I also wished her well and much happiness. She did not respond (although I know she got the email). She is the one who wanted the divorce from xN. I think 20 years took their toll on her in many ways. If the OW were to contact me, I would talk with her. I know he will lie to and cheat on her, no doubt. I will not shut her out if she were to try to reach me "after." xN went out and found "new" friends (all the old ones had deserted him) and immediately put them to work for his "cause" (to "serve" him and do things for him that he doesn't want to do himself)...even having them go out and find furniture for him for his new house! These are people he only knew a few months. He has an agenda and is hard at work on it. Eventually, they will discover what he is. I feel sorry for all of them. And for the OW.

#15 Jun 20 - 7PM (Reply to #17)

heritage

Conv with EXW

I went to the store where she works and we talked for 2 hours. Everything he told me about her was a lie. We actually had similiar personal;ities. she was funny, outgoing, intelligent. she told me he was very abusive, the 2 daughters choose not to speak to him after being abandoned. She told me he had cheated on her. He told me he didn't. she's off all her antidep, she lost weight and he does not support their 2 college kids. He hid his money during divorce. I know alll about his money hiding. I was with him during divorce. It made me sick to see how he treated her and his 2 kids. And sure enough when he gave me the boot I never heard from him again and he is with old gf now. He does not love his kids. I gave her my cell and told her my name and said if you'd like to grab a coffee or glass of wine please call me. This was in Feb. but how does she really know she can trust me. For all she knows her ex told me to nose around so I can't blame her for not calling. she's protecting herself and her kids.

#16 Jun 20 - 7PM (Reply to #18)

loveyourselffirst

She probably has a hard time

trusting anyone. Maybe with time and the assurance that you will never go back to him, she will call you. I assumed he was telling me the truth about what he was telling both of us in the end. Maybe I was naive. As time goes by I am starting to question everything about our life together. It makes me sad and angry. I wish I could just close the door on the past and not keep going over it with the view that everything he said could have been a lie.

#17 Jun 19 - 10AM (Reply to #2)

loveyourselffirst

Great Idea

Thanks AgnesMurphy. Realistically, I know that's true. But, emotionally I keep thinking that she will be the exception. (probably what everyone thinks as well - lol) How does a woman who knows that he is a serial cheater and a good liar convince herself that she is so special that he would never do it to her. She didn't have that much time invested in the relationship - she could have walked away. What is he saying and doing that convinces her that she is the only one for him? My fear is that he is so good at lying that the relationship will last for years and that my 'satisfaction' will be delayed. I will feel sorry for his future conquests but a part of me cannot forgive her for being with him when she knew he was married. This I take personally. My apologies to all the OW out there - I know you hurt just as much. Maybe I will be able to forgive her after she is D&D and she becomes one of us.

#18 Jun 21 - 4AM (Reply to #15)

JMi

Know exactly what u mean

Know exactly what u mean loveyourself My N left me 6 weeks after wedding day to be with OW - a friend of mine I wonder how they can trust eachother I wonder how she can think she is special enough - she used to tell me i was too good for him and he was a wanker??! I also worry that they will live happily ever after (they live together already) I worry that if they do have a long successful relationship, i will be left worrying that it was me who couldn't sustain our relationship

#19 Jun 19 - 11AM (Reply to #8)

SoaperGirl

My fear is that he is so good at lying that the relationship...

Wow! Like so many others, this subject speaks to me. I know that at some point because my narc is so disordered, that relationship is gonna collapse. It's not a question of if it will, but when? I think I have a pretty good handle on the narc's personality. I'm less sure of hers, but here are some of her own words from her match.com profile: "I look for the good in all people and try to learn something new each day. I am a patient and trusting person and very loyal to friends." Something about her words, I get the feeling she's not a bad sort, has likely put all her energies into a career (divorced, no children), now retired, she wants someone to love and be loved. Boy did she get a wrong number with my narc! Being of affluent means, I get the feeling is she is a ready made victim for the Narc. No wonder he said she was perfect for him! Naive, trusting and loaded! How great is that? I wouldn't mind finding myself a sugar daddy! hahaha. The one question that keeps plaguing me is: how long until she's had enough and either kicks his worthless butt out, or he looks for the exit door and shops for new supply! I just don't see this relationship lasting long term. I want to see it end and feel the satisfaction of seeing it all collapse!

#20 Jun 19 - 12PM (Reply to #9)

loveyourselffirst

I think she may be a naive person too

In the beginning (22 yrs ago) there were so many red flags but my need to fix him and my need for someone to love and love me was so great that I ignored all the bad and saw the good in him. I truly believed I had changed him. Boy was I wrong! If I had known someone that overlooked everything that I did - I would have thought they were crazy and blind. My codependency and sense of worthlessness without him even convinced me that it was my fault and made me want to overlook the cheating and continue with the marriage. It makes me sick to think I was that pathetic. I truly think that if the marriage had continued any longer - I would have disappeared completely. Maybe one day I will be able to thank him for leaving. Thanks SoaperGirl P.S. I find it hard to trust any man on POF. I have a profile with no pic so that I can see the 'available' men out there. Not hopeful - lol

#21 Jun 20 - 8PM (Reply to #14)

SoaperGirl

TRUST SHOULD BE EARNED, not an automatic gift

Strongly recommended that no woman should offer blanket trust without demanding some proof that he is trustworthy. Narcs love target victims who believe everyone in the world has good in them and naive in the world, so trust is a given - BIG MISTAKE. Folks - Such a concept of trusting without having adequate reason to do so, and blindly believing in the goodness of people screams to a Narc - PERFECT TARGET VICTIM HERE - come get her and ab/use her. Trust someone only if you have proven reason to do so. Skepticism in world is a good thing - doesn't mean you have to be automatically suspicious of everyone - but it shows you do thave a healthy sense of boundaries and are protecting yourself from the unscrupulous people.

#22 Jun 19 - 12PM (Reply to #10)

SoaperGirl

There's something about bad men that brings out the fight in me

During my last marriage (In retrospect I think he was a violent narc), I spent much time separated from my abusive husbande..from time to time, I tried to reconcile with him to disasterous results. During a protracted separation, I had started divorce proceedings..My MIL got involved needling me about his new relationship with OW..That made me try again. He made sure to rub his unfaithfulness in my face like so much dog poop. The marriage and reconcilation never stood a chance. I couldn't overlook it, and there's something that bad men that brings out the fight in me! I ragged on and hounded him endlessly about what dog he was..I promised him that he would pay and be punished for his cheating! Anyway, I eventually sent him to prison for a 6 yr term with 6 yr probation, and divorced him in the process. Men on POF, yeah, that rings a bell...either the guys are uglier than homemade sin, or if they are even reasonably attractive (read average looking!), ALL seem expect the women to all look like Miss Universe winners and it does seem like these sites attract narcs like crazy! I think I've just about had it with them at this point. The pickings are pretty bad, and I value my body enough, I won't give it to just anyone.

#23 Jun 19 - 12PM (Reply to #11)

loveyourselffirst

I know what you mean

He told me more than I needed to know about the OW - great body, good job, she adored him, she didn't understand how I could not appreciate him the way she did and on and on. I was so metnally beaten and in shock that I discussed her with him calmly and in a detached way. I bent over backwards to reinvent myself so that he would stay with me. I was willing to accept and forget all his past affairs (that he told me about at the same time as his current one). In the space of a few months he left and came back several times professing his love for me until the final D&D. I hope the person I was 5 months ago is gone forever. If I should meet a man and find out that he cheated in a past relationship - it's a deal breaker! Thanks again SoaperGirl

#24 Jun 19 - 1PM (Reply to #12)

agnesmurphy17

You know nothing

All you know is what he tells you! When the woman who replaced me & contacted me . . . I heard the stories he told her about us, our marriage, and me. Very little was true. Somethings completely made up. And when I met the first ex-wife of 20 years, so much of what he told me about her & the the situation . . . also lies. Maybe this woman will be submissive & stay with him. But, were you happy? Sounds like you were submissive & stayed with him.

#25 Jun 19 - 4PM (Reply to #13)

loveyourselffirst

You're right

All I know is what he told me. Maybe he didn't tell her about all his previous affairs, maybe she thinks she is his first or maybe he only slipped a couple of times. I do know that he is a very good liar so why expect him to be honest in the end? Perspective is so important - that's why everyone's input is so great. Thanks.

#26 Jun 19 - 10AM (Reply to #3)

ruby01 (not verified)

Ultimately

It makes no difference in YOUR life. You were unhappy with him and if you can remember back to a day in time pre- Narc, I'm sure you went on lots of dates that were truly fun with healthy minded individuals. That's where you want to be again. The heck with them that's just an effed up mess unfolding. You know it's true. Take care of YOU, Ruby

#27 Jun 19 - 10AM (Reply to #4)

loveyourselffirst

I know you're right

but the weekends are harder for me because I know they are together having fun. I'm working on my self-esteem and anxiety. It's hard to visualize myself with another man. I know that there are good men out there but I can't see myself being attracted to anyone right now. Thank you Ruby.

#28 Jun 19 - 7PM (Reply to #5)

Redhead1

I was married to my narc for

I was married to my narc for 20 yrs. I also had lost most of myself in the marriage. It has been a year since the last D&D and the OW. Time, NC and the members on this board have made a 85% difference in me in the last year. Mine had cheated but was very good at covering his tracks and explaining it away. I never could actually catch him. Just today I realized I beat myself up for no reason at all. I never had anything to work with by being married to the narc. The guilt was the worst part for me. He's someone I never really new. I get kinda angry sometimes because I have never really called him out. Once he unveiled the other woman I went NC except for texts pertaining to divorce. Guess what, the OW never left her fiancee for him. He sitting over there whinning about how lonely he is to our kids. Still got my pictures up on his facebook. He can stay in his magical world, I opted out (finally). Trust me, I felt just like you in the beginning. But time tells their story to everyone. When the other woman gets moved in with him, it will not be long before she meets the real narc. Will she stay, who knows? If she does, you just remember she is as miserable as you were with him. You will get to where you want to be. Its a hard journey, but worth it. I am so glad to be free of my narc and you will be too! Also, now I do look at men like "Hmm, he's cute, wonder if he is decent" Get rid of them, it all comes back to you. You are a smarter and happier person than you were before them.

#29 Jun 20 - 7PM (Reply to #6)

loveyourselffirst

85% sounds good to me

I am now 6 months from final D&D if I could get to 85% by the end of this year - I will be grateful. I let the anger out a few times but I still have lots to spare. It's not worth it to rage at him at this point, it would make it harder for me to deal with him regarding finances. Now I do my venting in therapy. Knowing that he is lonely must make you feel a little better - that's what I want. I want him to suffer even if it's just for a little while (I'm sure he would have someone else pretty quick). Hope the last 15% is around the corner for you.

#30 Jun 21 - 7PM (Reply to #7)

Redhead1

He will suffer, but you may

He will suffer, but you may not see it. Mine suffered while we were married. I thought he was just depressed because of his childhood. The futher out you get, the more you will realize. They are just suffering souls, hunting someone else to fix it. Stay strong and keep on going. It gets better:)

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