Narc Punishment by Proxy

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#1 May 4 - 1PM
momoya
momoya's picture

Narc Punishment by Proxy

The EXN told his wife that he was going to punish her by seeking out other women "to make them pay for her wrongs". The wife confessed his statement to OW3 and when I heard this I became physically ill. I had felt that his betrayal was intentional in my gut.

Today I read this article and wanted to share with you all:

Narcissists & Punishment by Proxy

BEATING YOU TO THE PUNCH AND DRAGGING YOU THROUGH THE MUD

Most estranged abusers will go running to anyone they can like the characterless people they are, with lies. This is part of the smear campaign an abuser will wage against his victim, getting to other people first before the shell-shocked victim can pull herself together, and lying about everything that happened between you, to make himself look like a saint, and you look like the one who is at fault.

Now to normal people with half a brain, this doesn't make sense, and they do not believe his lies. But people who are insecure or judgemental or one of his new victims, choose to believe him and aid him in his abuse. “Punishment by Proxy” is typical in a dysfunctional family.

*The truth about why relationships with abusers end is that their victims finally begin standing up for themselves and setting limits.

THE DEVIL’S ADVOCATE, OR SICCING ANYONE THEY CAN ON YOU

When you give them specific examples, they deny, lie, blame you or someone else, and in general refuse to take responsibility, apologize, or make amends. They are just looking for an excuse to keep you talking and interacting with them, so they can argue with everything you say instead of showing any remorse. Once again, you will be the one put on the defensive, trying to justify and explain your position, while they tell you it never happened, they don’t remember a thing, or it’s in the past and you need to 'get over it.'

Other abusers, however, either can’t handle a direct confrontation with you, or realize that you will refuse to continue being abused. So they will enlist other people to do their dirty work for them, a Devil’s Advocate, if you will. They will go on and on, crying a river to anyone who will listen, pretending to have no idea why you are upset with them, and in general acting as pathetic as possible.

FOUR BASIC PRINCIPLES OF SELECTIVE AMNESIA

1. Abusers will only choose to “remember” whatever will make them look innocent, and make you look bad. Anything they don’t want to remember will be conveniently forgotten. Except for the things they will claim are “in the past and you need to get over it and let bygones be bygones”. However, be aware that, by the abuser’s definition, “in the past” includes abuses she inflicted upon you yesterday, an hour ago, and five minutes ago.

2. When your abuser claims to have no idea what he did wrong, HE IS LYING. He knows perfectly well what he did. He will try this ploy even if you have told him point blank and in no uncertain terms exactly what he did wrong, argued with him and protested his mistreatment for years, and repeated your complaints dozens of times. He has seen your distress every time he hurt you. In fact, that was his reward for hurting you and the reason he continued to hurt you. Because he loved knowing he COULD. You probably complained, rebuked, confronted, cried in front of him, fought with him, and tried in vain to set limits, for years, if not your entire life. And nothing worked, leaving you no choice but to end it for your own survival. There is no way he does not know what he did. That is a lie. He only has Selective Amnesia because it serves his purposes to conveniently “forget”.

3. If you take the bait, AGAIN, and tell him what he did, AGAIN, he will only use it to involve you in a lengthy discussion AGAIN, in which he will lie, AGAIN. He does not really want to know the answer to this question. He is not going to respectfully listen to your complaint, carefully consider what you have to say, admit guilt, and try to make amends. He is only going to argue with everything you say, just like he always has. It will be the same old pattern it always was, and you will be the one who winds up aggravated, stressed out, upset, and on the defensive. You will just be wasting your breath. And he will probably use the fact that you’re even talking to him as a golden opportunity to bicker, criticize, rant and rave, vent his spleen, get things off HIS chest, and upset and abuse you all over again. Who knows when he’ll get another opportunity to tell YOU a thing or two? After all, that is what he really missed - not you as a person and a loved one, but you as a TARGET.

4. It does not pay to attempt a nice, reasonable discussion with an abuser. You are deluding yourself if you think you can ever make him understand, admit anything, or be accountable in any way. No matter what he claims, he has no interest in resolving your issues. He only wants to bait you into another endless argument so he can pick up where he left off when you disowned him, and abuse you some more. Reconciliation is not his goal. Upsetting you some more, just like old times, is his goal. It’s a power thing. He just loves pulling your strings, claiming amnesia, lying, and denying everything you say, watching you get all worked up, and knowing he still has the ability to do that to you. If you answer an abuser who claims he doesn’t know what he did wrong, you will be playing right into his hands.

It’s overwhelming. It’s not one or two obnoxious behaviors or hurtful episodes. It’s a PATTERN of ongoing, continuous, unrelenting evil. It just never ends, until we leave. With an abuser, it is NOT any one incident. It is not just his behavior, IT IS Him. It is the kind of person he is that we don’t want to have anything to do with. Abusers are evil, wicked, demonic people. Their behavior is merely an outward sign, a manifestation of the condition of their souls and the shriveled up, dead black heart within them.

It would be more accurate to list his personality traits rather than his behaviors as the reason for despising him. Imagine telling our abuser the truth- that he IS nasty, cunning, spiteful, manipulative, belligerent, treacherous, critical, lying, untruthful, bullying, conniving, deceitful, sneaky, trouble-making, jealous, sabotaging, envious, bitter, sadistic, malicious, selfish, narcissistic, hostile, dangerous, cruel, hateful, psychopathic, and abusive? That’s who he is. Who in their right mind would want someone like that in their life? What normal, healthy person would want to deal with this, or to expose themselves and their children to it?

Our revulsion, repulsion, and avoidance is a natural, normal, healthy reaction to exposure to evil. It is our God-given discernment setting off alarm bells in our heads and telling us to run for the hills. We left because we finally realized it was hopeless, and that changing these ingrained characteristics is impossible. Our abuser would have to change his very being, and that will never happen because he has no desire to. He left us no choice but to call him out in order to protect ourselves and our families.

The only way we can lead healthy, happy lives is to stay away from such evil people.

http://www.mailmandelivers.net/narcissism2/narcissists-punishment-by-pro...

May 16 - 9AM
momoya
momoya's picture

used so often

even after the Breakup so many of these punishments are used so often.

momoya

May 13 - 5PM
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Karma works overtime for us...

She really, really does. If there's one thing the ex-Psych prof HATED and dreaded... it was concerts. He liked lectures. Concerts, not so much. Like Leo Tolstoy, he'd rail against music;he'd say that if I married him, music would be banned in the household. Seems like karma punishes Narcs by proxy. One of my former profs (with whom I'm friends, he's been on NPR, got published in the WSJ) put on a concert/lecture about Tolstoy's "Kreutzer Sonata" (and the Beethoven piece that inspired it) He's a talented pianist. Turning a Tolstoy lecture into an opportunity to play music....karma took my idea and RAN with it! During the final D&D, the ex-P expected his colleagues to defend him. They didn't.
May 7 - 5AM
Sanity Check
Sanity Check's picture

Proxy

Great post! I can recall many such "conversations" with my exN - with him doing all the talking and me sitting there trying desperately not to have a facial expresssion. I left him when I found out he fondled my daughter - on top of the other endless shit he put us through. Of course, he had no recollection of this specific incident although he remembered every other detail about the night it happened. The truth is that his action with my daughter was probably the highlight of his sick and twisted life - he was her stepfather, and the only father she had known at that point for 13 years. Selective amnesia at its finest!
May 5 - 2AM
Kitty02 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Fabulous post....will be

Fabulous post....will be bookmarking this one.
May 4 - 5PM
findingmeagain
findingmeagain's picture

OMG BLESS YOU FOR POSTING

OMG BLESS YOU FOR POSTING THIS !!!! I FEEL GREAT NOW THANK YOU SO MUCH !
May 4 - 5PM
Steph
Steph's picture

What an accurate and truthful

What an accurate and truthful article. Explains it all so well. Thanks for finding and sharing this! xoxo
May 4 - 4PM
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture

HEY EVERYONE PLEASE READ!!!!

I hope everyone on this board, old, new, inbetween will read this magnificent article and let me know if you still want these repulsive people.......in YOUR life THANKS, Momoya
May 4 - 4PM
mystwoman
mystwoman's picture

This is an excellent article.

This is an excellent article. If I didn't know that narcs were pretty much all cut from the same cloth, I would swear that it was written about xnh personally. lol. I'm making a copy of this to keep for myself. Thank you so much for posting it. :)

______________________________________________________
God sometimes removes a person from your life for your protection. Don't run after them.

May 4 - 4PM (Reply to #6)
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

my xnh

Hey, were you married to my N too? Excellent article. Thanx.
May 4 - 2PM
terri
terri's picture

I have come to refer to the

I have come to refer to the Vain Forum as my "Validation Headquarters". Each and every day, I come here to read posts like this one that completely describe - SPOT ON - my experience with narc for almost a decade. It's like reading about my own life - and for all the years that I had so many questions, confusions, self-doubts - NOW I KNOW EXACTLY WHAT WAS HAPPENING AND THAT IT WASN'T ME!! What an amazing relief. God must have led me to this place and everyone one of you who are here. XOXOXOX

Believe in yourself!
Terri

May 5 - 7AM (Reply to #4)
spinning
spinning's picture

terri, I second your

comments, big time! Thank you again Momoya for sharing such great stuff. Thank you to all here for sharing from your heart and for the support, compassion, information, laughter and tears that we share. I appreciate it so very much! Most of all thank you again to LISA E. SCOTT for creating transforming the pain of her experience into this beautiful community of healing. Lisa, YOU ROCK!!!! Most sincerely, (not) spinning !!!!!

spinning

May 4 - 2PM
nancyh
nancyh's picture

So true

This is a great post. Isn't it mind boggling that there are people in this world that will treat others so poorly AND on purpose? The "We left because we finally realized it was hopeless" fits me to a "t". One day while we were arguing it hit me . . . I am so tired of this, it is exhausting and draining and he will never. ever. ever. see it nor does he want to see what is so obvious, I knew it was hopeless. It was from that moment that I stopped communicating with him in any way. We live in different states so for me, I think it has been easier to cut it off. Thanks for sharing. Nan

Nan

May 4 - 2PM
dudette
dudette's picture

Bravo!!!!

My XN was exactly like that and tried to triangulate me many times after the break up whilst remaining silent himself....mainly using Exwife... in the end though, it sort of turned against him....and XW says he actually never talks badly of me, never has.... odd.... but trying not to make a big thing of it..... I do believe that he picked on a replacement OW who works with me so that she would give me a hard time ( which she tried to do but I saw right through her - she is not the brightest - so ignored).... the other funny thing about that is that he uses her to cheat on his actual offical OW... what the hell was he thinking? In the end, I did not react and played dead to all of it and it came naturally part of NC......as for other colleagues, I have carried on behaving impeccably so there is no reproach anyone can make on my conduct or competence.... whatever he has told them... so I can shrug off any attempt at slandering my name happily....it would make him look bad to try and bring my name to the mud, I think he got that message... but it is also a battle, like NC, part of NC, of nerves.... But I will win this despite his best attempts at bringing me down Ladies this is all so true!!!! and the best argument for NC NC NC