Ladies - do you find that once you implement no contact, you sense lurking? In other words, do you feel like you're being watched? Or, do you get strange emails/calls?
The first time we broke up before we got married my N admitted to going thru my mail when I was out of town. This time around he told me he has his "cronies" checking up on me. What for I'll never know. He doesn't even want to be with me. We live a mile apart too and sometimes I'll catch him driving down my street. I have NO desire to drive by our old home, that would be torture. "Cry now because you lost him or cry later because you have him."
"Cry now because you lost him or cry later because you have him."
My God. I live a mile from my ex too! And my God, we met at work, he has since left the company, and lots of his old employees have come to my desk to "chat me up" and I have been told one person looked for pictures on my desk - trying to see if I had pictures of someone else!!!!!
I went through my ex's stuff several times, but I was looking for a REASON why he was treating me poorly. I was convinced he had someone on the side and was just pushing me away. I told him ONCE and he freaked out on me.
On the other hand, he went though my stuff all the time. It was a control thing. Funny how that works.
I guess it's the way they view us as property, we "belonged" to them at one point and they still view us as an extension of them even though we aren't together I guess. I can't figure out why mine was laying out at my pool next to my apt when he very clearly does not want the marriage to work.
"Cry now because you lost him or cry later because you have him."
"Cry now because you lost him or cry later because you have him."
to them you ARE property - you're an OBJECT not a person.
he was getting off on torturing you. if you heard the blogtalkradio show this week - we mentioned how they get off on being cruel to you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Yes, he's always lurking and I hate him for it. He's obviously moved on to his next prey which I'm grateful for. He's let me know his email address is different, cell phone service is off (though he actually did give me another number to reach him, as if) and I could care less. But he's always lurking, I've had to change a lot of my daily routines to avoid him. He always just happens to be there. I don't get it. He's moved on to someone new, knows I don't want him back, pretends to be my friend which he's so obviously not and under it all at times he says mean things to me.He's just evil and as much as I once loved the fake him, I absolutely hate the real him.
I'm so sorry to read your story. What a frightening experience for you. I'm glad you were able to stay strong and keep you and your daughter safe.
Marie
Bless you and please keep yourself safe! If he's letting you know any information about him regarding how to communicate: i.e. letting you know his email address is different and that his cell phone is off but giving you another number to reach him at.....HE'S BAITING YOU. He's keeping you "hooked in" and wondering what he's up to. That's what they do....use forms of communicating as tortue devices. It's disgusting and insidious. It's frustrating and crazy-making too.
His always "happening to be there" is his way of getting under your skin, like a needle in your brain....PRETENDING to be your "friend". HA! What a sick joke. He's not your FRIEND.....he's your ENEMY!
You have to do more than change your daily routines if you want to erase him from your memory bank. You have to seriously consider moving. Your sanity and peace of mind are WORTH IT. The quality of your life depends on where you're physically living.....and it must be as far away from him as is humanly possible.
Believe me....I know.
Hugs and more HUGS,
neveragain
Thank you so much for the support. All you say is so true and it took me a bit to figure out all his sadistic little tricks. Hard to understand why someone would go to such lengths but he's not a normal person. He's a twisted sick individual that I was unfortunate enough to meet and fall for. Barbara had mentioned a restraining order but as I told her I was considering moving far away just as you're suggesting now. I hate leaving my home but he's taken the joy from that as well. A friend of his lives down the road so there's always an excuse to be around. I try not to get caught out in the front garden or getting mail and keep windows closed so it doesn't look like I'm home. So it's become more of a prison now sadly.
I know he's not a friend, true friends don't behave the way he has. As for caring what he's up to my only concern is if it includes me, otherwise he can fall off the planet for all I care. He's never been threatening to me but I would never take my safety for granted. His ex wife is in a coma, she has asthma they say it was caused by a severe asthma attack. The thing is she had moved back in with him until she could find another apartment. Her attack happened the weekend she was moving out, I just find it unnerving. So I watch my back while I plan my disappearance.
I wish you all the best.
Hugs
Marie
Your house HAS become your prison. I'm so sorry that you have to live like you're in a war zone and a bomb will drop any minute. It's terribly stressful....no it's beyond stressful. I think that much more of it and you'll end up with a full blown case of PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder).
His ex-wife is in a COMA??? WTF? That is very chilling, Marie. Her severe asthma attack just happend to occur the weekend she was moving out? You're right, that is unnerving. It's downright alarming and I'm hearing sirens screaming in my head!
You must plan your escape carefully. Very, very carefully. Find a place. Start moving things little by little when you know FOR SURE he isn't around....even in the middle of the night if you have to. It's extremely important that he doesn't know where you're going. If you can move far enough away that it takes too much effort for him to stalk you, that would be ideal. You could rent a storage place nearby and move your things there little by little until you could make the big move.
Have you filed anything with the Police? If not, please do. It's very important that you have documentation on this. Believe me, nothing he's doing is an "accident"....he's TRYING TO MAKE YOU CRAZY. So, now you're living in a paranoid, scared, hyper-vigilent state of mind and it really can drive you crazy.
Please know that you can successfully navigate your way to a better life.
Hugs and Blessings To You,
neveragain
Thanks for your advice and support. I'm actually thinking of moving out of state. I will be on vacation in another week and going to a place I've been going to for years always with the idea that someday I might move there. It would be too far for him. I figured if I could set something up I could send some of my things there little by little. I have not mentioned this to anyone yet, I don't want word getting out at all about this.
I will always wonder about his ex-wife. I met her a few times she was always very nice to me. We were already broken up when she moved back in those two months. I had just seen her two days before she was hospitalized, she was out playing with the dog. She was going away with a friend that weekend and was complaining she was having trouble breathing, her heart stopped twice. When he told me she was going to move out when she got back those alarms began ringing for me too. I believe he had something to do with her getting ill but can't figure out what he could have given her? I haven't mentioned this to anyone either, everyone thinks he's a great guy. I wish I could find the woman he was involved with before me but I don't know her last name. He had been looking for her, he was leaving away messages for her online. I started snooping more after that and the more I discovered the more I wanted out. When I started confronting him, he dumped me.It was all very painful. I've been slowly rebuilding my life but I need to be totally free. To do that I know I have to move as much as I hate to,it's the only way to be safe and free.
Be well and thanks again.
Marie
Barbara, this is a very informative article. And I know for a fact my relationship with him was killing me and is still having a negative impact though not as severe as it was. Last spring before our break up, I was suffering with the worst migraines.I've never had a migraine before in my life. These at times would be so bad I would be sick to my stomach. Since this winter I think I've only had 2-3 migraines I used to have them on a daily basis. I've also missed a lot of sleep. He would keep me up late talking at night, he always has some drama going on which is also tiring. For a bit he was driving passed the house during the night with the radio turned up loud so I'd know it was him. I did report that to the police. The bad thing is he's friends with a few of the cops so I'm sure he's told them I have problems. I know he's complained to some friends that he had to change his email and phone because of me, that I'm always bothering him. So it's definitely still stressful to some extent. I'm enjoying a small break, he has not been around I've heard he was in the hospital yesterday with chest pains. Could be fake, he's getting desperate for money so it might be part of another scam.
Oh God, Marie....that man is a work of art....a DISTURBED one.
PLEASE follow through on your plans to relocate. You MUST get yourself away from him at all costs. Seriously.
He's toxic and damaging and fake. He's disgusting and predatory. You need to remove yourself physically from his presence....ASAP.
The fact that he's playing the role of "victim" because of his health issue is gross.
The fact that he's ingratiating himself to police officers is manipulation and posturing.
You need to get as far away from him as you possibly can.
MARIE..there is a whole new, beautiful, clean, peaceful and loving life out there for you.
Go claim it.
Love,
neveragain
Neveragain, he always plays the victim role. Here is an email he sent me 3 months after he abandoned me. He claims to be having a tough time since summer, I don't know with what? I guess with me because I got sick of all his lady "friends." Sick of poor Yvonne going through her marital problems, Michele planning a class reunion... Yes it must have been tough spending night after night consoling Yvonne while I was away then hooking up with Michele but trying to keep track of my work schedule so I wouldn't find out. After abandoning me he came back after 3 months trying to weasel his way back in. I sent him packing. I told him I wanted nothing to do with him. I just lost it. It was devastating the way he abandoned me and then I felt so much rage. To have him come back around after all that without a word and act like everything could just go back to the way it was; it was hard to not let him have it. This was his response to that last argument notice how he touches on my hurt but it quickly gets refocused on to him:
"I am very sorry for making you feel bad.
I am going thru a very tough time right now and have been since the summer.
I certainly dont want to talk to you thru an e-mail but the cell is broke and the number wont come up and with the attitude that i am carrying around right now its probably best that i dont.
It was never and is not my intention to hurt you in any way.
I just get the feeling that no matter what I do or say you are always going to have this mistrust for me.
I dont want to get into a long impersonal e-mail.
The stress that I am under right now is more than I've ever dealt with before and I sometimes feel like I'm not allowed to have any problems of my own. That no one allows me to just blow off steam.
My feelings for you were and are exactly as I've always said they were for you. I explained why i pulled away from our situation and there has never been anyone else.
I apologize because you're right, i have been a lousy friend for a long while now and I am sorry. Its just in my nature to not burden others with my stuff and if i feel crappy i avoid even the ones that I love.
I hope that you have a wonderful Christmas and that you forgive me for being such a @$#%&^&.
Hope to talk to you when my life isn't so %$^*ed up.
I do Love You and I always will."
One week after this his ex wife moved in with him for two months.
"Just because he never believes he could possibly be wrong does not mean that the narcissist never apologises. He is capable of every kind of display of remorse imaginable, from tossing out a sarcastic or casual, "I'm sorry" right through to crying and pleading with you like a devastated child.
With most abusers and particularly with narcissists, this is not a real apology, no matter how remorseful he may seem. It is a means to an end and no more.
What it really means is, "let's pretend this never happened so that I can do it to you again".
One of the talents that children of narcissists in particular tend to develop, is the ability to see what is really being done and hear what is really being said. We have spent our entire lives dodging the bullets and sheer survival has forced us to expend a lot of energy in trying to identify them before they hit. We can never dodge them, but we're a bunch of real die-hards who never stop trying. We just need to learn to trust our gut.
If it feels insincere, then it is. If it feels unbelievable, then don't believe it.
Our downfall however is that we are hopeless dreamers. We believe in fairy tales and a narcissistic parent is the biggest fairy tale you can get. We keep wanting desperately to believe. (Same with Npartners or Nspouses)
A partner of a narcissist is not much different. You want so much to believe them because if you have to admit to yourself that it is all a lie, the dream will be shattered. The dream is all you've ever had. If that dies, you fear your very soul dying too.
The reality is that your soul won't die. The dream will. Some of your innocence and gullibility will, but so will the conflicts, the deception, the games, the vulnerability and the constantly recurring pain.
Every time that you believe his empty sorry, you are giving him permission to continue.
If you really want to give the relationship an honest chance, accepting his sorry should have conditions attached: - get professional help, stick with the program and achieve a real change in attitude that reflects in behaviours.
If you demand or accept any less than this, you're going to keep living through the same old nightmare over and over again."
http://www.cosmicwalk.co.za/games-sorry.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Barbara, I never believe any apologies or anything he says any longer. Even his I Love Yous fall on deaf ears. They are all just words I know. It was hard to have the dream shattered but having been in a way worse abusive relationship long ago I was able to get out of this one quicker because I recognized some familiar red flags. Even though it ended quicker it did steal some of my heart. The feeling of being in love with someone is one of the greatest joys to experience in life, to find it was all a lie is damaging to the soul. For me to have gotten involved with yet another psycho I have to question why? Do I have poor judgment in picking men? My only excuse this round is I was not in my right mind when I met him. My marriage had just gone bellyup (for normal mutual reasons it was a nonabusive relationship) and I was just overall unhappy with my life in general.
Two years I watched him hurt his son and know it's been going on a lot longer. He promised to take him to Disneyland again. Just like all his plans with me, he would go through the whole show, getting prices, figuring out travel times, planning the days out... This last round he complained his son wasn't even excited about it, that his son said when he's walking through the gates and sees the castle he'll believe it. I remember how upset he was that his child could feel this way. I mentioned all our promised trips and that after awhile the game wears thin. Needless to say they didn't go to Disneyland.
He may have shattered my dream but that will be the last. I will never take him back because better I have this last shattered dream then a lifetime of them.
I have been involved with a PARADE of psychos my whole life.
IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT!
I strongly recommend you get & read WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS (see link in right hand margin on this site) ASAP!!! It will show you why you are targeted.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Yes, I'm definitely getting a copy of this. I've been reading a few books similar to this or true life cases just to understand the situation and stop blaming myself. I know my story is not unusual nor the worst. Writing in my journal, posting here and reading other people's stories has helped me a lot but I still have a ways to go.
Thank you for your suggestions, advice and time they are so appreciated.
Marie, as hard as it is to accept the facts and "move on" (I have a hard time with the "moving on" part)....it's really the only option we have.
The more I read (and I've ordered Women Who Love Psychopaths, It's All About Him and two other books from the Sandra Brown website) and listen, I am feeling better.
When I first really gave up the dream, I felt so depressed and damaged. I felt worse than when my marriages ended (both were with Psychopathic Narcissists). This last relationship I thought was "It". I thought I'd met the man I would spend the rest of my life with. He SEEMED so much better than anyone I'd ever been with. What I didn't know was that he was acting. They are all such good actors.
The script is the same though....and when you do forgive them repeatedly, they think they have you exactly where they want you. It takes great strength, clarity and fortitude to get out.
You are a strong and intelligent woman, Marie. I know how much it hurts and I know the feelings of humiliation, despair and sadness that result in dealing with a man like that. Stay strong and resolved and avoid any and all communications with him.
Hugs,
neveragain
Moving on is definitely the only option. I have been feeling much better since about March. March somehow became the pivotal point in my emotions, though there have been bouts now and then of sadness or anger but never forgiveness. I will never forgive or forget what he's done to me and my life. I'm looking forward to moving far away and beginning anew.
It's hard not to feel damaged after being with an N. You were abused and innocence taken away. In the rapture of love you begin planning your life around that person especially if they talk of the future. At the time you don't realize it's all a cruel joke. I was also extremely depressed when reality hit. I definitely will not become involved with another for a very long time. It will be hard to trust again but I know in time it's a possibility. It will be hard though to not let this experience overshadow other relationships. For now I'm content to be on my own.
I had one truly horrible relationship before I married. I was with him on and off for five years. The first two were wonderful the next three were horrendous. It ended when he became physically abusive, I left all my stuff and disappeared in the night. I retrieved what few belongings I had house when he was at work. To this day his defense was he was a kid and didn't know any better. He was a 6'5" 200lb something kid to my 5' 110lb frame. Another monster. It was very damaging, he was extremely abusive. I think that's why I was only with the current one for 2 yrs too many familiar red flags, he began reminding me too much of this other guy. When my 5 yr relationship ended I remember my mom saying "you'll never get married". My family, lol, another whole abusive situation. I asked her what would she prefer a marriage or a funeral to attend. It was then I set her straight that if I never married because I couldn't meet a decent guy then so be it. Better to be alone then someone's personal punching bag, what the hell kind of life is that?!?
So I've had it worse than this last round.
Hugs
Marie
Today I was walking to my business center and noticed HIS car. I looked closer and saw him lying out at MY community pool, talking on his cell phone!! I was FLOORED! He knows someone who lives in my apt complex but COME ON! He never came to this pool in the past. What is he doing there now? He is so indifferent. So cruel! I can't talk much more of this...
"Cry now because you lost him or cry later because you have him."
"Cry now because you lost him or cry later because you have him."
They are so infuriating with their little tactics. Just stay strong and don't confront him, he will deny everything mine always does. He called me a few weeks back to say he's getting rid of his cell service, whatever. Then he called me a week later to give me another number he could be reached at. A week or so after that called to ask if I tried to call him. He had a hang up on his phone with no message so thought maybe I tried to call. It's just games but cruel. I've gone back to screening my calls. He won't call for awhile but then it starts again, always some ridiculous reason. He'll say mean things, not outwardly mean but not hard to catch. It would be nice if once they were out of your life they'd stay out.
Oh, I'm so sorry you had to see him at your pool. That must have been hard for you. Don't ever forget your quote:
"Cry now because you lost him or cry later because you have him."
You are so much better off. Stay strong. Big Hugs, Lisa
I was so seriously brainwashed by my ex-psychopath-husband that when I left him and changed the PIN # on my ATM card (he'd wiped out all the money and I had to feed our six year old daughter!), I was CONVINCED that no matter what four digits I chose, HE WOULD KNOW WHAT THEY WERE! I was that traumatized.
He'd threatened my life, told me he had a gun and that no matter where I went, he would find me. I looked over my shoulder for the next 5 years, moving to four different apartments. Leaving was hard but I was willing to take a bullet if I had to.....that's how much I loved myself and my daughter. I had to risk my very life to GET OUT.
My daughter is 25 now and looking back, I think he was full of hot air. But I couldn't risk that. I had to take precautions to protect my life and my daughter. In the end, he was too much of a couch-potato, lazy-man to ever really stalk me. I think his real intentions were to scare me so badly that I wouldn't leave. WRONG!
Wow, you dealt with a real psychopath. I'm so sorry you went through that. The threats he made on you must have been terrifying. You should be so proud of yourself for being so strong and keeping your daughter away from him.
I think the best revenge is living well. The problem for me is that I didn't realize how important it would be to really get to the bottom of WHY I attracted him (and accepted what he doled out for so long) in the first place.
I must have really done a good job of protecting my daughter from his emotional blackmail because the day after her wedding (where he wanted me to take him back) she expressed to me that I should consider it!
Needless to say, I'm high-tailing it for a crash course in Narcissist-Force-Field-Training!
My second husband also turned out to be a Psychopath and the realtionship that just ended was with a Full Blown Narcissist with psycopathic tendancies.
ARGH! But, yes, I am proud that I'm out of the physical proximity....NOW I have to address my own psyche/soul/emotional status. I think it was a Godsend that I found this site and I am so thankful that I'm NOT ALONE!
Hugs,
neveragain
You should be very proud of how you protected your daughter from him. It is a huge testement that she expressed you should reconsider taking him back. Huge.
I think his real intentions were to scare me so badly that I wouldn't leave.
Yes! they try to scare you so you won't leave and/or won't tell anyone what they did to you.
from: WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS
As the emotional stress, physical, and sexual exhaustion are taking their toll, her failed reality testing continues. She begins thinking paranormal things are happening around her. The constant ups and downs of the relationship are now eroding this strong woman’s sense of self-confidence and resourcefulness — just what the psychopath intended.
As she starts to psychologically decompensate, she experiences the same four dynamics that are seen in the Stockholm Syndrome:
1. She perceives (and has already experienced) a threat to her physical or psychological survival and believes he has the ability to carry out his threats. By now, she has already lived months and maybe years of him carrying out his ability to harm her through the use of his dichotomies.
2. Perceived small kindnesses from him to her set the emotional tone for her letting down her guard and seeing him as human or kind again. This also increases her relationship investment and hope in him.
3. Isolation from outside perspectives other than his. She has already experienced not only isolation from others but the indoctrination of his pathological world view. He begins to control her perception of reality by actions that create near delusional experiences of reality.
4. And lastly, a perceived inability to leave. The psychopath has already trained her that he will find her or that he has special abilities to know when she is leaving or where she will go. Her strong attachment also contributes to her perceived inability to leave.
- Sandra Brown, MA
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Chilling and deeply disturbing! I remember it all so vividly....like it was yesterday! I have ordered the four book package from the Safe Relationships website run by Sandra Brown. I'm trying to be patient while waiting for them to arrive! I tried to order the Women Who Love Psychopaths on Amazon and they were out of stock. Hmmmm....what does THAT tell you?
I'm afraid that this disorder is waaay more prevalent that anyone thought. I think that there's a huge percentage of the population who's lives have been deeply affected by it. It's probably right up there percentage-wise with drug addiction. (I'm totally guessing but it sure seems possible!)
The thing is, since being exposed to that man again after eighteen years, it's brought up my old nervousness around him. He was involved in my daughters wedding on April 18th and he wanted me to go back to him! My daughter and her husband wondered why I wouldn't consider it. Egads, I think they've been completely manipulated by the man and it raises the hair on the back of my neck.
Thank you, Barbara for your support and knowledge. You've been in the trenches and are using everything you've learned to help all of us.
WWLP is available on my abuse site (see URL below) - deeply discounted. Look on the left hand margin and scroll down a bit - then just click on the picture of the book or the link at the bottom. It's from a different source than Amazon.
Get it - and read it - ASAP.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Free articles & information for abuse victims: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
The first time we broke up
"Cry now because you lost him or cry later because you have him."
Jodie
Amy
"Cry now because you lost him or cry later because you have him."
Jodie
Neveragain
Marie....Protect Yourself.
Neveragain
Marie
Neveragain
Marie
Barbara-dangerous man article
Oh God, Marie....that man is
He always plays the victim role
meaningless apologies
Meaningless apologies
Marie
Women who love pshycopaths
Marie, as hard as it is to
Moving on
Marie
Mine was sunbathing at MY pool!!!
"Cry now because you lost him or cry later because you have him."
Sunbathing/Jodie
Jodie
I was so seriously
Neveragain
Thanks Lisa!
Neveragain
neveragain
Chilling and deeply
neveragain