Just Keep Dancing

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#1 Jun 12 - 9PM

Lisa E. Scott

Just Keep Dancing

Wow, I truly believe we meet people in life for a reason and I met an amazing woman today at the Printer's Row Lit Fest. Her table was right next to mine under the Illinois Women's Press Association (IWPA) booth. Her name is Susan Brauer. She was abused for twenty years. Her ex-husband had her convinced that she couldn't work so she would be dependent on him. She finally broke free, went back to school and now has her Master's in Engineering. She truly is an inspiration and I KNOW I met her for a reason.

Like I said, her table was right next to mine. We told people who stopped by that if it was too late to be warned by my book that they needed her book to help them move on! Can you believe that? It is too much of a coincidence to be random, if you ask me. I believe some things happen for a reason. We reached a lot of women today.

Susan's book is called "Just Keep Dancing" and I can't wait to read it.

"Susan provides for the reader a look into the tapestry of her life, and turbulent twenty year relationship and marriage to an abusive spouse. She then details the event that caused her to make a major life change and how this self awakening brought control, success, and hope into her life."

"I had the opportunity to read JUST KEEP DANCING and I honor Susanâ€™s courage and willingness to share her story with others in hopes that no one will have to go through what she did -- or if they do, that they too will find the strength that she did to "keep dancin'.""
--Kim Wells, Corporate Alliance to End Partner Violence

http://www.dreamerstapestry.com/

#2 Jun 12 - 9PM

Jaded

Lisa - Sounds inspirational!

Wow I am so happy to have found an inspirational book like this. SO you think it will help us? I just ordered the sondra brown book too but it is all I can afford for now. But it seems like from the link maybe I can get this book for free. I am going to follow up and maybe spend the money next month if I cannot get it for free, I am on a tight budget and I cannot work as i have panic attacks and also no history of work. My husband did not let me. I was just wondering about if the lady who wrote it went No Contact. I have been reading about this on this site. I am thinking this maybe the thing for me to do. Did you go No Contact with your narcisist? thanks

#3 Jun 12 - 10PM (Reply to #24)

Barbara (not verified)

Books Like These...

Books like these were so instrumental to me when I was recovering from Psycho-Boy and finally putting the pieces together about the tsunami of Narcissists & Psychopaths that had stomped through my life and caused my disability and breakdown to the point where I had to go to a clinic for almost 2 weeks. I took a bunch of these types of personal stories along with me even there. Some of them were: TRADING PLACES by Mary Turner Thompson THE GIFT OF BETRAYAL by Dr. Eve Wood MY HYPNOTIST by Pauline Yuill IF I AM DEAD OR MISSING by Janine Latus MIRRORED LIVES by Jan Lander DEATH WITH THE DEVIL by Barbara Bentley and of course, most recently GETTING IT THROUGH MY THICK SKULL by Mary Jo Buttafuoco Books like JUST KEEP DANCING and yours can be so validating and illuminating for abuse victims. ~~~~~~~~~ My Blog: Free Information for Abuse Victims Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller

#4 Jun 13 - 4PM (Reply to #25)

missyjade

Barbara Bentley's book is

Barbara Bentley's book is called "A Dance With The Devil". It is an interesting book; I was actually discussing it this morning along with some friends I went to breakfast with. I do like Sandra Brown's books, however, I personally do not like the way she conducts business. I had an experience involving me paying 60 bucks for the initial assessment. Well, after someone finally contacted me, she told me that she will write a report and most likely recommend me for telephone therapy. It took this woman almost two months to get back with me. I finally had to send her an email to remind her that I was still waiting. I finally got an email telling me some things about her personal issues and that a "Natalie" would be calling me within a week. After waiting for another two weeks, I sent another email regarding my dissatisfaction, however, this time I included Sandra. Well, I guess Sandra did not like me being uphappy with her services because she replied informing me that things happen in life that causes them not to be able to respond immediately; hell, as a successful business woman, I would have thought she could have informed me of this prior to me having to wait so long for the services that I had already purchased. I decided not to start an email war. I actually found a great local therapist that I rather pay $125 bucks to on a weekly basis than to be irritated when I don't have to be.

#5 Jun 13 - 6PM (Reply to #29)

missyjade

Choose Your Battles Wisely

Furthermore, I am not going to fight with You about my experience with Sandra Brown; It's not your battle so step off!

#6 Jun 13 - 5PM (Reply to #26)

Barbara (not verified)

missyjade

Sandra is not a "successful businesswoman" - as Lisa will tell you authors do not make a lot of money. Books are not the big business everyone thinks they are. She suffers from PTSD herself as well as severe adrenal fatigue. Her business loses money hand over fist. She has volunteer help. Works out of her home and recently had the ex of a client come and slice into her electrical system. Lisa herself has a full time job and a life off this board that sometimes slows down her response time. She's mentioned this on the board many times. It sometimes takes me a long time to get back to people too... so I guess I'd annoy you too. Oh well... ~~~~~~~~~ My Blog: Free Information for Abuse Victims Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller

#7 Jun 13 - 6PM (Reply to #27)

missyjade

Choose Your Battles Wisely

No, you would not annoy me because I did not pay you my hard earned money for any services. In addition, sucessful is not just measured by the money you make; it also includes the ethics in which one operates a business. She charged me 60 bucks for a particular service and I expected to get just that; oh well

#8 Jun 13 - 9PM (Reply to #28)

Barbara (not verified)

missyjade

alrighty then. :) ~~~~~~~~~ My Blog: Free Information for Abuse Victims Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller

#9 Jun 12 - 10PM (Reply to #16)

Lisa E. Scott

Jaded

Sandra's book is great. It's very helpful. I will talk to Susan more tomorrow to find out if she went No Contact. I'm looking forward to reading her book. I myself did go No Contact. You have to or you can't break free. They will keep coming back unless you "Starve the Vampire," as I like to say. :)

#10 Jun 13 - 10AM (Reply to #17)

Jaded

Lisa

I like the way you said that, it is just like how they are like vampires! How long have you been without contact with your Narcisist husband and does he ever still try and get in touch with you? If he does do you just ignore him?

#11 Jun 13 - 12PM (Reply to #18)

Lisa E. Scott

Jaded

Yes, they are vampires if you ask me. Starve the Vampire! I have been divoced for seven years now. I was with him for eight years. I don't talk to him anymore, although I did a few months ago because his father passed away so I reached out to offer my condolences. When I got off the phone, I was sobbing hysterically. It really made me realize how long and lasting their effect on us really is. That is why it's so important not to jump into new relationships to numb the pain, which I can admit I did for many years. It simply doesn't work. We must be patient and focus on ourselves for a long time before we can be ready to let someone back into our heart and trust again. Not one relationship since my divorce has worked for me and I admit it's because I thought I could just meet someone new and forget about him. It doesn't work that way. We must deal with our pain in our own way for however long it takes before we can even think about trying to love again. I'm still working on it, but I can say I'm finally comfortable and happy being by myself. I couldn't say that a couple years ago. I've always felt I needed a man to be complete. Believe me, I would love to have a life partner I can share my life with, but I will not rush it because I don't want to make the same mistake again.

#12 Jun 13 - 4PM (Reply to #23)

Barbara (not verified)

Starve the Vampire

I have always loved the Starve the Vampire analogy. Sandra Brown, MA wrote this article years ago: http://searchwarp.com/swa148202.htm It resonated so much she copyrighted the 'Starve the Vampire' phrase. I even have a huge magnet she had made from some of her clients with a big bat on it that says "Starve the Vampire." It basically means don't react! These people live off your emotional content and are trying to get your goat. So NO REACTION! ~~~~~~~~~ My Blog: Free Information for Abuse Victims Feelings buried alive never die. - Alice Miller

#13 Jun 13 - 12PM (Reply to #19)

Jaded

thanks for your advice

I have never been with another man and jumping into a new relationship doesn't seem even possible for me as I can't go out much (panic attacks and anxiety and PTSD) and have three young children. Most men are not interested in getting involved with that. Do you have children? ANd I cant really dress myself up and look pretty like you do. But I did used to be nice looking before all my kids. But they are worth it and I love them. My lifestyle is pretty limited. But I am trying to figure out if I should talk to him or not. He is always nasty to me now but I think he wants to take the children even though he doesn't seem to like them much. I have not heard from him in about two months but I think he's just planning on how to come back and hurt me. And other people do not see how bad he is, they think he is charming. I am worried if I don;t talk to him at a all he will get even madder. I am talking about this in my next therapy on wendesday so I will see what she says. thanks for telling me your story.

#14 Jun 14 - 12AM (Reply to #22)

Lisa E. Scott

Jaded

Well, I'm glad to hear that you're not jumping from one relationship to the next as I have in the past. It's so unhealthy. No, I don't have any children, unfortunately. You are truly blessed. You should NOT respond to him. I'm glad you're going to talk about this in therapy on Wednesday. Please make sure you plan a strategy to ignore him when he does reach out to you, k? Make a pact with your therapist that you can stick to so that you won't respond to him. He might get mad initially, but eventually, with no response, he'll go away. Stay strong! Big Hugs, Lisa

#15 Jun 13 - 1PM (Reply to #20)

better off

Jaded... please keep reading

Jaded... please keep reading everything you can in the blog and on the message board. No contact is the only way to heal from these people. Yes, it might make him madder, because he wants to be in control of you, but that is called taking your life back from this person who only wishes to hurt you. Are these his children? Do you have a lawyer? I wouldn't be worried about the future of other relationships, etc right now. I would concentrate simply on you and your healing today and your children, who must also be affected by the N. Thinking about all that will come down the road in your life would be pretty overwhelming I think... right now you just need to take care of you and get well.

#16 Jun 13 - 5PM (Reply to #21)

Jaded

thanks better off

yes they are his children ad no I don;t have a lawyer. I really don't know what he's going to do next. Just today my mum told me she had heard he left the country as he got caught in trying to double-cross someone who he was involved with in selling drugs. I hope so. I hope this will means he stays away. That would be the best thing. We are from Britain but I live in US now and she heard he went back to Britain.

#17 Jun 12 - 10PM (Reply to #2)

Juicy Fruit

I also have a question Lisa

I read you book and you say that we are not to blame for what they do to us but then in your blog on the Retraining the Brain thing you say that we sabotage our relationships. That doesn't make sense to me. Could you explain that to me because I am confused. My abusive boyfriend always said I was to blame. So am I? Did I sabotage my relationship with him or am I not to blame like in the book? I am getting more upset all the time trying to figure this out. I want to get better but I'm just so confused. Thank you.

#18 Jun 12 - 10PM (Reply to #5)

Lisa E. Scott

Juicy Fruit

Sorry for the confusion there. I can see why you have a question and thanks for letting me clarify. You did nothing wrong! It is not your fault! What I meant by "sabotaging our relationships" relates to any new relationship we try to form after our abusive relationship with the narcissist is over. If we do not give ourselves enough time to heal between relationships, we are likely to replay negative patterns of thinking in our mind, which might ruin or sabotage the new relationship. For example, I fear the worst and think all men will treat me the same way so I act defensive, question him and perhaps even pull away to protect myself. In essence, I'm sabotaging the new relationship because of feelings I have not dealt with or fully processed. This is why it is important to fully heal and process feelings in the subconscious before getting involved in another relationship. That way these repressed feelings won't get in the way of a relationship with a healthy man in the future. I hope this clarifies. I'm fighting a cold or strep and a little out of it so if this didn't make sense, just let me know. I need to get myself to bed now before I ramble any more. :)

#19 Jun 13 - 8AM (Reply to #11)

gullablegull (not verified)

HUH?

"I'm sabotaging the new relationship because of feelings I have not dealt with or fully processed." Oh shit! So are we all going to become Jesse James? That's exactly what he said, and I think he's a narc/psycho a$$hole!

#20 Jun 13 - 1PM (Reply to #15)

better off

Gullable Gull, I think it's

Gullable Gull, I think it's very very important we don't confuse what normal people say with what psychopaths say. Even The Pledge of Allegiance or The Lord's Prayer in the mouth of a psychopath would be a twisted perversion of what the words really mean! As Barbara says, how can you tell when a psychopath is lying? When his lips are moving! So while Lisa can be speaking something truthful with those words, coming from Jesse James the same words are twisted lies. I suppose Jesse James learned statements like that in therapy, since he rushed off to "rehab" for 30 days to learn bullshit he can say to sound like a normal remorseful person. As we have learned here, therapy only makes a psychopath WORSE. Because they have no conscience. So does that make therapy bad? No, it's just one more good thing that gets twisted to a psychopath's evil doings. They corrupt everything. Some other comments have been made about different sorts of affirmations... in the mouth of a psychopath an affirmation becomes an abomination. But in the mouth of a victim they can be words of healing.

#21 Jun 13 - 9AM (Reply to #12)

Juicy Fruit

I don't get it either

We're not to blame but we're going to keep sabotaging our relationships. I don't understand this at all. I wish someone would explain this to me. I am getting more confused and upset all the time.

#22 Jun 13 - 11AM (Reply to #14)

Lisa E. Scott

Juicy Fruit

Thank you MsVulcan, Janet & Grossot for helping to explain what I'm trying to say on this one. It's much appreciated. JuicyFruit - none of us are to blame! You have done nothing wrong! What I'm trying to say is that it takes a long time to trust again. If we don't seek help from a doctor or allow ourselves enough time to heal, we may enter a new relationship with our guard up. That's all. With our guard up, we really aren't ready for a new relationship - forget about the word sabatoge - it was probably a poor choice of words - too harsh. I simply mean "push someone away" because we're not ready to trust yet. If he's a good guy, he'll be patient.

#23 Jun 13 - 9AM (Reply to #13)

MsVulcan500

Juicy Fruit

I understand what you are saying. Sometimes someone can put it in other words that just make it click. So I'll take a stab at it. You are not to blame for what he did to you. He manipulated you and brainwashed you into trusting him more than you trusted yourself. This is what caused you to take his continued abuse even though you would never take it from someone else. It was all because you were in a game where you didn't know the rules, and when you learned one, it changed. Since he ended up hurting you so bad and now you are learning how he did all of this ON PURPOSE to you, you are even more doubting of your instincts and are mistrustful of people. So now let's say it's been a few months, and you meet a new guy. He seems really nice and you like him. Things are going along really good. Then one day he says or does something that your N did. This triggers memories of the N. You suddenly think "OMG, here we go again. I've found another one." And you bolt out of the relationship. The thing is, it could have all been innocent and you bailed on a realtionship that could have been really good for you. That's the sabotage. This is why it's really important to follow the advice and seek therapy, get on meds if necessary, read and learn all you can, so when that guy shows up and makes some faux pas you won't be so quick to bail. This is where we are now. And will be forever. We have to set healthy boundaries and learn the trick of staying in long enough, but not too long if red flags keep popping up. But to get to this place where you may be less likely to sabotage a relationship you have to do the hard work, and take the necessary time. 18 months or so. And this is all with NC with the N. Hope this cleared it up a little, and if not, maybe someone else can pipe in. Good luck, it's worth it in the end to be rid of him!!

#24 Jun 13 - 6AM (Reply to #6)

Juicy Fruit

I still don't understand

How will I know when I'm healed? And if I meet another Narc and things don't work out again, will it be because I sabotaged it because I'm not healed?

#25 Jun 13 - 10AM (Reply to #7)

janetc

juicy

Have you read WWLP by Sandra Brown? I can't fully explain but she deals with this issue extensively (why we were targeted by the psychopaths). It was cathartic for me, as I was blaming myself and feeling suicidal at one point. I have an extra copy if you haven't read it or can't afford it, with Lisa's or Barbara's permission you can get my e-mail address and I will mail it to you. Sandra details in the book that we victims basically have some wonderful qualities (very compassionate, forgiving, willing to work hard at relationships, loyal) that unfortunately the N's abuse and use to twist us and keep us in the relationship. (I was married 30 years to one, believe me I know!!) I had a really trusting personality before, and the aftermath of such total and utter betrayal has totally uprooted my view of the world and people and trust, so it is no wonder we are damaged and have PTSD. I just learned about N's 1 year ago, and I have read extensively, I have tried to get hold of most of the resources that have been listed here, Barbara has posted excellent resources. I am now ordering Hare's book. I personally found WWLP to really help me as I saw exactly how my N twisted my good traits to abuse me, and I saw the red flags I had ignored. Now your last question, how will I know when I am healed? That is a hard one...I don't have an answer, 1 year post N and reading voraciously and I am still very much in therapy working on my issues, and I know I am NOT ready to be in a relationship. The more you read and learn about N's, the red flags to watch for, etc., I think would help to avoid them in the past. I am so damaged at this point that I see an N behind every bush!! LOL. Just know that you are not alone in how you feel, it is NOT your fault, and let me know if you would like this book!

Janet

#26 Jun 13 - 10AM (Reply to #8)

Juicy Fruit

The part I don't understand

I don't understand this at all. Maybe I'm dumb, but the Narcs psychiatrist who saw him after he was in jail for beating on me said that the problem is all the Narc not me. I don't think I have any issues other than I was talked bad too and beat up by a Narc. If we are the victims like his psychiatrst said I am then why are we working on our issues since my only issue was he was crazy.

#27 Jun 13 - 1PM (Reply to #10)

better off

In your situation, I

In your situation, I wouldn't be concerned about "sabotaging" relationships (and Lisa has already said that wasn't the best word) or even having another relationship right now. I would hope you could concentrate on healing the damage done by the narc who abused and beat you. I think we'd all agree that NO relationship would be a good idea until you have healed from the previous trauma. Trauma that you did not cause, but sadly, has left you with wounds to heal. And a big part of this is education so that you do NOT get into a relationship with another narc in the first place. As janet said, reading WWLP is very important so you can learn why THEY target YOU so that you can avoid them in the future or identify them much more quickly. And you learn about your GOOD traits and how they are USED by the bad guys.

#28 Jun 13 - 10AM (Reply to #9)

janetc

victim

Yes we are all victims absolutely! I am sorry I am not explaining this well. Sandra says the victims of N's she has studied have "super traits" those I listed above, such as loyalty, high commitment to relationships, compassion, empathy. Those are all excellent traits. The N's, however, have learned to hone in on these traits and because of these very traits (we tend to believe the best in people, we have high empathy) they use these to abuse us. The issues I have to work on now are PTSD, (result of being a victim, NOT my fault), depression, a total shaken view of trust issues, and yes I need to work on all of these, but I did not cause them, they are a result of the N! Does that make sense? In my case, I had boundary issues as well, and if you read WWLP she gives examples of how the N's will test to see our boundaries early on in a relationship. If they are able to push us and manipulate us and we don't maintain boundaries, they go for the kill so to speak! I have learned I have always had issues with setting boundaries (even pre-N) and I am working on that, as that is one thing that will help us NOT get involved with an N again. And one more thing, therapy is essential in healing and I had to go through 3 therapists before I found one who "got it." Many have very little training in cluster B personality disorders and really don't help. So, to repeat, yes we are victims absolutely! But, we need to heal from what has happened to us, as a result of being victimized! I hope this makes sense, and again I highly recommend Sandra Brown's book to better describe the effects the N's have on us and our super traits that made us "vulnerable" to these monsters (not our fault!)

Janet

#29 Jun 12 - 10PM (Reply to #3)

happydaysahead

Juicy Fruit

You are NOT to blame. It is just one of their sick ploys to manipulate us. Cuz you know, they can NEVER be wrong and someone has to be, so who better than to blame us !! He is the one who did the sabatoging, not you !! Don't ever blame yourself !! What are you guilty of ?? Being human ??

#30 Jun 12 - 11PM (Reply to #4)

grossot

Juicy Fruit

anotherpath once said on this messageboard: He's playing head games with you and projecting his hate for himself onto you, even if this is subconscious - With what they've put us through, who wouldn't protect themselves from the next relationship. They give men a bad name http://hubpages.com/hub/Married-to-a-Narcissist?preview nolongercontrolled

http://hubpages.com/hub/Married-to-a-Narcissist?preview

nolongercontrolled

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