I dont think better off intended to offend you or wanted to be sarcastic, but I do understand that when you are in the midst of a roller coaster you easily hurt by comments (I've been there, done there, with my friends).
I think she just wanted you to realize, that you have to stop to listen to him, that it is him who is insane, not you, that he will never be a good man, never was, that you wont ever find any satisfying decent closure/answer with him - never ever.
Just add my two cents here: if you need to talk to him, keep it firm and strict about the bills and divorce - just buisness.
Stop every personal relating conversation with him. You will not find peace till you stop talking to him/listening to him. You need to accept his insanity and stop the insanity by your own, cause he wont do it for you. He will continue, continue, continue - till he has totally broken you - till you are dead maybe.
I was in a abusive relationship as well, I was married for 2 years when I was in my early twenties. And I tell you, if you dont end it, it will get worse, at the end he might even attack you physically - what else needs to happen - does he has to beat you physically till you see its insane insane insane....in my case it was like that, I missed the opportunities to opt out again and again and again, at the end I was beaten, raped, and financial broken, he left me with over 10000 euro dept, he intentenionally did this even after we were even seperated, he wanted me to bleed in every kind of way, cause I pushed him out of the house.
End this now. End this now. I dont want to sound harsh, I am just afraid what else will happen, when you keep playing HIS game, cause thats what you do. what you are afraid of - losing a complete psycho? Please never talk to him again!
thanks jen, i know it will never end, i think he would love to see me die still loving him and still in such pain over what hes done. he told me to take the gun put it under my chin and pull the trigger, he said at least it would end my insanity because im so crazy only death would help me, so you are right, he would revel in my death, and probably go f his girlfriend and laugh about it all night long. i know this, i know he doesnt love me and he never loved me, but i truly loved him, more than you can imagine, twenty four years of his bs his cruelty his charm his lies, manipulations, now hes moved on, but cant seem to let me move on, he has to keep one foot in the door in case things dont work out for him, but i dont want him back, i just want him to move on from her or move as far from here as possible. i know and you know hes a psycho, but hes convinced the world im nuts and hes such a great guy, and i helped with that, i was ashamed so i covered for him for years telling people what a great guy he was, so they wouldnt know the truth, so now, its i that looks like the looser whos husband found a gf since his wife was nuts. too bad they didnt know hes had hundreds of gf in twenty four years.
that hes moving on. You said he is trying to keep one foot in the door. That doesnt sound like moving on to me. I know my ex fiancee N tried to keep his foot in the door. and everytime he tried to talk to me he only succeeded in putting his damn foot in his mouth. They never move on....from anything. Because there is nothing inside of them that completely belongs to just them, as in their own self worth. Instead they fill themselves up with only the bad experiences in their lives from abusive childhoods and personal failures and whatnot, and hold on to them for dear life. That's why I am blacklisted as EVIL still to this day by my Narc even though we havent spoke in nearly a decade and wev'e both married others and supposedly went forward. Well, I know I have, but he has not. He will hold onto our past togethere for the rest of his life, and he will do that for everyone else after me too. Yours will do the same. Youre not nuts, and NO, not everyone is convinced that you are. My grandmother, a retired psych - nurse, once told me that you can fool some of the people all of the time, but not all of the people, all of the time. Quite right. Only the people that don't matter are the clueless ones anymore. Anyone who is close to him for the whole time you guys were married and still believes his bullshit, well they probably don't have more than two brain cells to rub together, or they are just like him and want to believe him. To which I say, "fuck 'em."
shaynasmommy, thank you for telling me that, i never read your story, i will now, its been ten years for you, does he still bother you? does he still try to get into your mind? or have you far removed him from your life? I dont know why my hN doesnt just say, im gone, ive moved on, and we should just never see each other again, or at least stop telling me how much he loves me and wishes he was home. if he really wished that, he would not have done this, he would not have gone this far, he has been living with this vindictive whore for six months, and guess what, doesnt look like hes leaving there, no matter how much he says he wants out. hes got it to go there, doesnt pay a dime, gets all the ego stroking and the clothes, and food and getaways that any guy could want, so why would he move out of there. he can tell me all he wants hes leaving her and moving on and he doesnt love her, but the only truth is he doesnt love anyone, except himself. but what kills me is he continues to pretend to her he loves her. and question that bothers me, what kind of woman, would ever want to committ and someday marry a man, whose children she has never and will never meet, let alone know? our children have no intention of ever meeting this woman nor ever speaking to her, so why would she not be a little suspect of that? (this would be a great post, i think i will ask about this) or is it because she got what she wanted, him, and could care less as long as she gets the illusion he is close to her son? i could never be with a man, whose children hate me, and would never want to meet me. I could never be with a man who hasnt seen his own son in over a year, and hasnt spoken to him in six months, and will probably never speak to him. i dont get either of them, but i especially dont get why a narc doesnt move on, i dont get it? they discard so easily, so why hold onto something they have thrown away? and thank you again for your reply.
Too much time trying to figure HIM out, and not enough time figuring YOURSELF out.
Really, who cares why he does what he does? He doesn't "move on" you say, well they don't even think in a linear fashion. Seriously. They are MESSED UP. So you think in terms of past present future, and actions and consequences. They think of none of these things. They only think of NOW, and by NOW, I mean RIGHT now, this instant, okay that instant is gone, it's a new instant. Two seconds ago is "the past." Their behavior has no rational, logical basis. They just act completely on impulse.
So, instead of trying to figure out why HE doesn't move on... why not ask yourself why YOU don't move on?
Why aren't you doing ANYTHING to move on? He isn't going to do it, you have to. YOU have to move on, YOU have to provide your own closure, YOU have to shut.the.door.
You ask why he won't move on, but you are looking at his GF's facebook page, you are LISTENING to him, you are letting him hang around your house and TELL you about his relationship with another woman.
He's a lunatic. Why aren't you trying to move on? Ask yourself, do you like being involved with him? I know you say you are in so much pain, and I know you are, but what are you getting out of it? You have to be getting something out of it to keep doing this. Does not being engaged in this drama with him make you feel "blah." Is the drama better than "nothing?" Are you afraid of getting nothing from him?
As Winnie The Pooh says... think. think. think.
we talk about the cruelty of narcs, but sometimes people sound quite sarcastic in their responses. we all walk in different shoes and have very different situations, yes, narcs in common, pain in common, situations are very different, im not a sarcastic person, and i dont feel comfortable when people speak to me in a sarcastic way, so if you need to be sarcastic, please dont reply to my posts.
I sincerely apologize.. because I am not trying to make you feel worse. I am not. It is not meant to be sarcastic, it is meant to get you to see something... to get you to answer your own questions.
You ask why why why? And I want you to stop spinning in circles and tell ME why. Not ME, actually, but YOURSELF. Because you have to stop chasing the rabbit trail... and tell yourself the truth.
Because I think you can! I think that if you sloooow down... and think about this one.step.at.a.time. that you can get yourself back.
I was totally serious about you saying and writing down the words "He is a pathological, so he lies about everything." Because that is the answer to 90% of your questions and fears.
Many people have asked you direct questions... like what will you do to go no contact, what ONE thing can you do for yourself today? why are you talking to him?
And you don't answer them, jaycee... you have totally ignored those questions, and you go on to either rant about the whore, or the long streams of crazy crap that comes out of your narc's mouth. You respond to people as if you've never heard of narcissism.
The sarcasm was meant to jolt you back into the real world. The fact that you are so upset about it makes me wonder if you don't just WANT to stay a ranting and raving lunatic that a narc has driven you to, or if you do want to get better.
You plead with us to give you answers, but instead of thinking about the answers, you keep asking because, I *think* you want someone to give you a DIFFERENT answer... which is that somehow the narc will dump the OW and come back to you? Do you want him back?? I can't tell. If you want him back, no one here will help you get him back. That would be like buying a junkie an overdose of heroin.
I find it interesting that you have enough backbone to call anyone out on sarcasm... and for that I commend you!!!! You just set a boundary for what makes you feel comfortable, and that is a GREAT THING.
Now do that with shithead!! ;-)
P.S. Is narcissism curable?
I appreciate the apology. and no narcissism is not curable, but i fear neither is my pain, it seems to get worse and worse everyday, I just cant move past him living with her, and sincerely, i dont want him back, i want him to move on, go far away, its difficult him living two minutes away with a woman who gloats and finds my pain comical. I could never laugh at the pain of another human being, i would never gloat at the destruction of anothers life, so you see, I guess thats why i want someone to tell me he will dump her and move onto the next, not back to me.
Okay, he will dump her and move on to the next. I don't know WHEN, but he will. Meanwhile, you gotta care about you.
Okay then, sister woman, NARCISSISM IS NOT CURABLE. You said it yourself. So when obsessive thoughts come, replace them with truth. You have two new thoughts to replace them with:
1) He is a pathological, so he ALWAYS LIES about EVERYTHING.
2) Narcissism is not curable.
Those two thoughts encompass a lot of territory... so when the obsessive QUESTIONS come... is he happy, does he love her, does he this that and the other...
Repeat the two thoughts. I wasn't kidding about the post-it notes. I used to have one that just said He is a liar on my computer. If I felt squizzy and wanted to contact him, there it was... Liar. Then I imagined his profile pic with a big clown nose on it.
So, Narcissism is not curable... but let's flip it around to your other destructive thought... that you fear your pain isn't curable.
3) My pain is curable.
I think three is enough for a traumatized brain!
You will get better. But if you want to get better sooner... you need to listen to your friends, and you need to be a bit more accountable about how you are going to GET better.
If the OW is causing you THIS MUCH PAIN, and of course she does, then STOP LOOKING AT FACEBOOK. Can you do that? Can you at least consider it? Will you consider blocking that facebook acct? Will you consider doing it at some point ever at least?
thank you, i hope you are being sincere when you say he will dump her, i pray that happens. and as for fb, no need i dont have one, just a fake name to scope, to see if they are on it, and its hers and only hers, and since hes been gone there was that one pic, gone as soon as i made an issue and now no reason to check again, i believe he will make sure of that, not for me, hes worried his little lady at work or the little lady from the beach might see, if they get the whores name, hes worried about him no one else. as for my pain i pray it is curable, i know it can be, its just going to take time. and yes, he is an incurable narc whos pathological and psychotic. i know that.
I guarantee that he will dump her or she will figure him out and get rid of him or choose to live a miserable life. You should pray for her as she is going to experience the same horrible things that you did. I don't want anyone else to go through what I did.
I recently spoke with my ex N's former wife and he did the same things to her that he did to me. She divorced him and I eventually broke up with him. They repeat their patterns of behavior.
N's are only able to keep up their nice image so long. The truth will eventually come out because it is who they really are.
Please focus on your new life as it is the only life that you can control. You can't fix him and you can't make her realize the truth any faster. Move forward and never look back. Time heals everything.
wisernow, thank you for those kind words, you sound so sweet. i am sorry you have been through this also. it sucks, the pain is unbearable these days and im sorry for you. as for praying for her, his whore, no thank you, she should feel half the pain i feel, and she would die, this woman tortured me until i couldnt be tortured any longer and she finally got me to throw his ass out, and now she believes she has won. she just doesnt know him, if she were an innocent unknowing victim of him, and never came near me or harrassed me, i would feel very sorry for her and pray for her to get out now. but i dont pray for satan, either satan, meaning him or her, they both will hopefully get what they deserve, i pray for me and my children and we are the only ones i will pray for, in this particular situation, as i do pray for all the women here and my family and friends for their needs. But i thank you for your kind words, i want to focus on controlling me and my life, but the obsession gets in the way, and it fuels me to question everything every minute of the day. i know i cant fix him or make her realize what he is, but i wonder how it is that i ended up loving lucifer for twenty four years, knowing what a good person i am, i guess that fuels my obsession also, i keep wondering how different my life would be if this or that, or if i fought back with this woman, and let her know he was my husband and she had no right, but i put my head down in shame and let it go on for over two years, now, im angry at that, more so than anything else. i should have held my head up high, said my peace, then threw his dirty ass out, instead i let her get the best of me, never said a word, and then threw him out without any closure to that part of it. i hope you understand what i mean. thank you again, jaycee
Why would I not be sincere? I have no reason to lie about it. They do the same thing to everyone. This is a trait of narcissism. That is why I kept asking you to define it, because you cannot define narcissism without including the fact that they do the SAME thing to EVERYONE.
So if he is an incurable narc who is pathological and psychotic... the doesn't it follow that he doesn't love her? Isn't it impossible for him to love her? It is, isn't it?
And if he is an incurable narc who is pathological and psychotic then he will dump her too, right? Yes.
You don't have to pray for that to happen, it just will, like leaves changing in the fall.
Can you consider deleting the fake name you have to scope with? Honey, don't think we all haven't done the same stuff. I did that. It makes it worse, it makes it last longer.
Can you consider literally deleting that account you used? That's one little thing. It would be a start.
this one describes it best for me right now, just found it on the internet. sounds like my hN. The Somatic narcissist and the psychopath use their partners' bodies to masturbate with and their sexual conquests serve merely to prop up their wavering self-confidence (somatic narcissist) or to satisfy a physiological need (psychopath). The somatic narcissist and psychopath have no sexual playmates - only sexual playthings. Having conquered the target, they discard it, withdraw and move on heartlessly. By Sam Vaknin this amongst many other things i could say, i do know what he is, im just struggling with it.......jaycee
Okay, so from your own answer,your husband is with the OW because he:
~uses her body to masturbate with
~uses her to prop up his wavering self-confidence
~sees her as a thing
~targeted her, will discard her, and move on heartlessly
When he was with you, he:
~used your body to masturbate with
~used you to prop up his wavering self-confidence
~sees you as a thing
~targeted you, discarded you, and moved on heartlessly
Next question. Is narcissism curable?
You said this morning that you are talking to him because he holds all the financial cards. But now you say you will be fine in the divorce because you have a lawyer.
Tough love alert....
then the only reason you are talking to him is because you want to continue to be abused.
There is no other reason for you to speak directly with him. Your lawyer should be doing all of your talking for you. That is what s/he is getting paid to do.
I'll stop now because I don't want to interrupt Better Offs train of thought with you. Focus on the work she's trying to do with you and stop making excuses for having any sort of contact with him at all.
until all papers are legal, yes, I need to tread lightly, I have to make sure everything is paid, dont want to wait to have to take him to court, when electric, cable etc is already shut off, you should know that, and all my lawyer can do is tell him what will become of the bills when all legal papers are signed, she cannot, make him pay right now, maybe threaten, but oh well, all he has to say is he didnt have the money, and the judge will say, now its legal you have to pay. does that make sense to you. nothing is signed as of yet, he has no obligation, as he doesnt live here, until a judge signs and seals the deal. so i prefer having electric cable gas, etc and a roof over my head. i just am very positive there is nothing i wont get that i want once this is said and done.
Jaycee - an observation here and this is just my opinion. You have made great progress today. You really have. You started out the day continuing with your stream of consciousness writings about him and the OW and asking so many WHYs. But in the past few hours, you've shifted gears. You've written about real stuff - facts, your own opinions, your own goals; not about what he might be thinking or why he might be doing something or not doing something. This is HUGE Jaycee and you are to be commended!!
As far as this particular post .... a couple of things:
"I have to make sure everything is paid, dont want to wait to have to take him to court, when electric, cable etc is already shut off, you should know that," You're right. I should know that. Want to know why? And this is important - the reason I know and the reason that I'm posting so much to help you is because I have been there. Not with the N. With my first husband. Jaycee - I was a battered wife. My first husband physically abused me. I was in my mid-twenties and while I wasn't financially dependent on him, it felt like I was. I know how this feels. If I didn't I would never presume to give you advice. Honestly.
Is the house and are all the bills in his name? If so, he cannot get out of paying them. If he does, your lawyer can take action to protect you. He is threatening you that he won't pay the bills. But what he says doesn't matter. Instead of talking to him about the bills, please talk to your lawyer about them. Does your lawyer know he's threatening to not pay?
Also, does your lawyer know about the property damage he did yesterday? If not, you need to tell your lawyer (and the police) immediately. Jaycee - there are people out there whose job it is to protect you. Please don't think I'm being condescending or sarcastic. I am telling you this because I didn't know these things either. I have lived this too and if I could have done anything differently with my Ex-H it woudl have been to get 3rd party, outside help way earlier than I did.
2) "so i prefer having electric cable gas, etc and a roof over my head" I know, I know you do. But I really don't think that you are beholden to him for these things even without a job. Please discuss this with your lawyer. Please.
Also, may I ask - you said that you're seeing a therapist. What does s/he say that you should do to take positive steps forward to protect yourself? Does s/he know all the details like what you've posted on the board? Do you feel better after you work with the therapist? Perhaps your therapist and lawyer can work together on a plan forward with you?
And Jaycee - I hope that I have not offended in you in any way. For a long time I read your posts and honestly I never replied because they overwhelmed me and I didn't have the energy to get invovled. But when you sent out your pleas for help yesterday, my heart broke for you. So I decided to try to help you. I think all of us are trying to help you because we are like angels with wings - some of us are soft, sweet angels and others are forceful, sarcastic angels. But we all reply to you with the spirit of trying to lift you out of the nightmare because you so, so, so deserve it.
Hugs Jaycee.
thank you morty for all you said, i know you are right, i am trying to do the right things, im just so consumed by pain right now, im half there and half not. and so tired from not sleeping, but i thank you and i will continue to do my best to get this over and done with so i dont have to be so nice. id rather be nasty, but hes so vicious i fear that, there are things he would do to publicly humiliate me if i dare try to get nasty. but im listening i promise and im thankful just tired tonight. hugs jaycee
Yes jaycee "half there and half not " i totaly get where you are at , after 24 years of living with and trying to love a narc youre realisation is not going to happen over night , it is a proccess . After 2 years with mine i will still have days where i foget he is disordered and apply what he said to normal behaviour and i have to jump out of that thinking and remind myself wate a minute he is ill , and some times although a lot less now the concept that he is ill just wont kick in . I have known about this disorder for well over a year , i have gone back to him three times in that year because i had toxic hope that i was wrong but each time it got worse and worse , what you tell us youre narc said to you mine has said the same words to me , pathology is pradictable and thats why they all sound the same and do the same thing .It is frustrating for some members because they can tell you are nearly "there" with getting what you are going through and getting the disorder . 24 years of brainwashing is going to take time to de program months if not years and some times it will feel like 2 steps foward and one back but you are on to him now and you are definatly in the right place being here . What we really need to start looking at with you is going no contact as thats when the real healing begins while you still have contact with him he is still brainwashing you , not even the stongest of person can handle narc pathology for long and it is a testomany of youre strenght that you have handled 24 years of it ... wow girl ..you are one tough cookie !
And to answer youre question over the ow and will she get dumpped the answer is "YES" and big fat "YES"... but if i can just say she is not the enermy here , he is ... in time , in time she will stop being smug , fem fatalie ow who stole your man , you will get to see her as just another victum of a highly disturbed psycopath and i dare say someone to be pittyed . .. oww i wish i could wave a magic wand and make it a years time and you have been no contact for that whole year and you will be writing on here telling other women to go nc and stop listerning to him ... it will happen if you take action now and go no contact .. we are here for you ... xx
Making progress is hard work. No wonder you're tired. =)
Food for thought:
"id rather be nasty" ---- please keep something in mind. Narcissistic supply isn't just being sweet, fawning all over him, walking on eggshells, doing whatever he wants. It is also acting the exact opposite, being mean, raging at him, calling him an asshole, getting in his face, making demands too.
Being nasty won't solve your problem. What you need to do is make a plan, even if it's baby steps, to go eventually utterly and totally no contact. Any contact, positive or negative, is supply for him and can and will be used against you.
morty, you are right, nasty wont solve anything, neither will sweet, he is a sick individual, and no i dont feel sorry for him, but i do pity him. i know, just from how his mom is, he is torn between being a human with emotions and being a cold, vicious, cruel monster. im sure ive said this before, when the kids were little, he cheated and left, at the time i was a bit overweight, not bad, but his mom hates fat people, or anyone over weight, so she said to me, well, what did you expect, you did get awfully fat. and ive told you, my son is too handsome to be married anyway. nice..........this is what raised him. she also didnt like my family, she said my mom and grandma and aunts were too close, why are they together all the time, i dont even see my sister but once a year. she didnt like my mom and dad because they are (so cute) both chubby, and i think they are endearing, they cringed her. so pity would be ok, as i was raised by two beautiful human beings who always told us beauty is from within, and we are blessed to have our children beautiful on the outside and inside, they always taught us compassion and empathy for our fellow man, so to have lived with a narc for twenty four years, and put up with a nasty mom in law, and a nasty husband has been very difficult, i was raised one way, loved unbelievably by my family, and emotionally starved by this man, has brought me to the brink of insanity. knowing whats right and good, and accepting wrong and bad, has made me rather emotional in every way possible. i thank God everyday for giving me such a wonderful childhood and beautiful parents, yet, i ask him why i settled for someone so opposite, i guess his mask was so thick when we were young, i just saw what i wanted, and now i am paying the price, as are my parents, they too, loved him, forgave him for what he did years ago, they thought he was young and stupid and that he had grown up and become the family man he was supposed to be, they are so devastated, but like me, have a hard time hating, they are just so sad, my dad has aged so much, as my hN always told him, your the only father i have now, and youre always my favorite, my poor dad said, guess he lied about that too.....my poor papa.........even my aunts and uncles and cousins are so disgusted, they too, cry for me, because in all the years i covered for him, they knew how i adored him, even when they felt something wasnt right. so he hurt me and our children, but he hurt many many others as well. yes, morty, i am so sad again today, for all of us, as we took this monster into our lives and loved him unconditionally, gave him more love than hed even known, or will ever know, and he turns around and abuses all of us.....im not the only one hurt here, and i have to remember that, and our children are beyond hurt once again.
jaycee
jen
Jaycee
Im not so sure, Jaycee
im not so sure
Jaycee
Change focus
sarcasm is kind of cruel
Jaycee
I sincerely apologize..
better off
Jaycee
Okay, he will dump her and
better off
Jaycee
Jaycee
jaycee
Jaycee
Why would I not be sincere?
what is a narcissist
Jaycee
good start
jaycee, is narcissism
Jaycee - do you have a lawyer?
morty
Jaycee
Hmmmm...
morty
Jaycee
Good Progress Here Jaycee
morty
Jaycee
Yes jaycee "half there and
Get some sleep
get some sleep
Jaycee