I've Done it Again

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#1 Dec 5 - 10AM

Mindful Aviatrix

I've Done it Again

Hello, everyone . . . I seem to have been "guided" to this Forum by an energy that is greater than myself. The timing couldn't have been more impeccable, either.

If you take a moment to read my profile, you'll understand why I'm so relieved to have found all of you.

I spoke with my narcissistic friend this morning and started off the conversation by setting some pretty impenetrable boundaries as to how much information I was prepared to hear about his antics at the wedding on Saturday night. Boundaries which were, obviously, immediately ignored.
He began to tell me all about how he had begun to forge a strong connection with the woman who invited him. ( At which point my amygdala went into full hijack mode - I got triggered into feeling like a second-class citizen yet again - satisfied to content herself with table scraps ) He was SO entranced by her that he spent the entire next day with her in the company of her extended family, too. ( Help me . . . I'm shrinking ! )

Did he not realize that this information was hurtful to me ?

I cannot emphasize strongly enough that this man and I are merely friends. Nonetheless, I've become somewhat hypnotized by his energy, much to my dismay. I'm sure that this will all be embarrassingly familiar to you ! Might I even go so far as to admit that I suspect I might be falling in "love" with him ?

Not only friends, but we have made the decision to go into business together. He is a Master Painter / Contractor and I will be in charge of the day-to-day running of the operation. As a retired educator, organizational skills are one of my strongest assets.

Predictably, his life is in total disarray and he seems quite content to allow me to step up to the plate to get him back on track.

Because I'm also something of a writer, I agreed to look after all of the content for our new Website in addition to a weekly blog.

Funny thing is, though, I seem to be doing ALL the work as we get ready to launch this new business venture. While deflecting pressure from him to "get cracking" as he heads out the door to stupefy those wedding guests with his good looks and magnetic charisma.

That being said, I have done "the work" with the help of an exceptional therapist to heal the traumatic wounding that I suffered at the hands of two ( count 'em ) narcissistic parents and both siblings.

I have embraced "mindfulness" and live my life according to its guiding, peaceful principles.

So, how has it been possible for me to fall into this old trap again ? Are some archetypes so burned into those primal neural pathways that I'd best live the rest of my days as a cloistered monk ?

#2 Dec 6 - 2AM

destiny (not verified)

please trust me on this one

please trust me on this one please do not go into business with this man... i made the same horrible mistake...and it has cost me everything imaginable. if he is indeed a narc he is NOT your friend. he sure acts like it, right? i know narc was my friend too... all an act. and ya know what my so called best friend did to me....he left me high and dry and scrambling to try and get my affairs in order... do not allow this to happen to you too. they are disordered...i didnt want to believe this ...i see it more clearly now...it is tough to get my head around it... that he can be so beyond evil...but they are. he turned people , contacts against me... i could go on and on about it... im still having a lot of difficulty with all of this...with trying to grasp that he was not my friend that he preyed on a single vulerable woman..as a contractor... sucked me in at a time when i was going thru a great financial loss etc... he knew EXACTLY what he was doing.. he got NS by telling everyone how he was helping a damsil in distress well he accidently forwarded an email that was meant for one of his colleagues where he was calling me a ungrateful psycho . another time he went behind my back and forwarded another private email of mine deleting key facts....and the last thing i am still trying to recover from was we had a phone conversation and he asked me to email him about it and he forwarded those emails again out of context to a third party and really screwed me over... smearing me basically. they cannot be trusted...they are NOT OUR FRIENDS.

#3 Dec 5 - 5PM

nomoredenial

I get so pissed reading this

It makes me think how I got had to....Your not getting your money back, your not going to get a equal friendship, you are not going to be in a successful business with him. He is blaming, shaming and sure as shit he either didnt meet those people at the wedding or they were on to him with a quickness. So you are either still in denial or you still want to feel like shit, Simple as that

#4 Dec 5 - 6PM (Reply to #22)

Mindful Aviatrix

No More Denial

I am about three hours into No Contact. Something "shifted" in my soul about four hours ago after a day spent reading on and off at this Website. I came blasting out of denial at light speed. Pretty much flayed all my skin off in the process, too ! I have contacted my cell phone company and my cell number will be changed effective tomorrow morning. And I'm shaky as hell . . . But you're not the only one who's pissed. I'm pretty much quaking with an intensity of anger that I've never experienced before. I've done it. Enough is Enough. I have a VOICE. And it is kick-ass.

#5 Dec 5 - 12PM

walking_on_sunshine

The road to recovery is so

The road to recovery is so long and difficult for children of narcissistic parents. I believe there are things we have to learn, that unfortunatly don't come all that easily. This often leads us, even with our best efforts to repeat the insanity. My best guess is based on the idea that there is a "need" to aquire, that the now adult child was denied by having a narcissistic parent. The adult child subconsiously searches for someone who reminds them of that parent and feels to them like that parent. So it is in essence, "familiarity seeking" or "comfort zone seeking" but there is motive behind it. The adult child seeks validation and seeks to re-inact the scenario with the negligent parent, but this time, win the N parent/partners love. Its a vicarious attempt to heal old wounds. The unfortunate thing is that it never works. If some day this comfort zone seeking behavior can be changed I suspect its because of a mixture of two forces. The first being therapy designed to heal the inner child and teach the individual to heal his own wounds. The second being the repeating negative re-inforcement of abused itself. I believe that at some point the mind does begin to equate that "hey this doesnt work", and trying to get "vicarious validation" causes me pain". Its that old n = pain scenario. However, I also believe that this is often why those without narcissistic parents don't understand how or why an individual can repeat the insanity, because for them there is no underlying drive to have a need met countering their logical judgement, and it is indeed a drive, a primitive drive. I believe that children with n parents are battling between the drive to get what they didn't have and the consequent pain of n abuse. I suspect when the n abuse from their partner finally becomes a stronger force ( due to pain) than the drive for vicarious validation, the N abuse serves its purpose as a re-inforcer to exit the relationship, in essences, it is to give up and accept defeat - needs not met. It is not just a failure of a relationship, psychologically, it is a failure of getting the n parents love as well.

#6 Dec 5 - 3PM (Reply to #19)

Mindful Aviatrix

Children of Narcissistic Parents

Walking on Sunshine, I have to thank you for such a thoughtful and considered reply. What I neglected to mention in my initial post was that my mother died a mere two weeks ago after a ten-year battle with Alzheimer's Disease. I live at a safe distance from my family-of-origin ( both siblings are narcissists, as well ) and drove for over six hours to do the "honorable" thing by attending both her visitation and funeral. It was as if I had entered a Salvador Dali painting. I was virtually incinerated by the energy that surrounded me . . . even more so because I had not functioned in any caregiver capacity in the ten years that she struggled with this disease. I wisely anticipated invalidation and marginalization and I was not disappointed. I managed to emerge triumphant, or so I thought. It has only been since my return home that I have found myself to be MOST vulnerable and susceptible to the siren song of my N-friend. Being an introspective spirit by nature, I've wondered if, possibly, I'm grieving the loss of this abusive parent. Surely, I would feel more relieved than I do ? Perhaps I'm grieving the loss, too, of my two younger siblings, now. For immediately upon mother's burial, they began to sanctify her memory and enshrine her "stories" to be ultimately archived somewhere near Mother Teresa. I erroneously tried to talk about all of these conflicting emotions with my N-friend. Only to be summarily told that I was not to cry in his presence. I believe it went somewhere along the lines of, "Suck it up." I remembered that invalidating pattern only too well. It echoed hauntingly down the corridors of childhood memory. And all I knew then was that I had to leave immediately to return to the safety and personal authenticity that is my own home. My siblings have not made any attempt to contact me since I returned to the adopted city I have called home for over thirty-six years. Nor have I bothered to try to talk about the whole experience with my N-friend again. Unless it's going to further HIS agenda, he makes no attempt to even feign interest. I am aware that this Forum is a place for women-in-recovery to come together to start the process of moving forward with their lives. I submit that the process of recovery can actually begin to occur ( with dawning awareness of patterns and unrelieved emotional anguish ) before the ultimate step of NC is taken. It is in that spirit that I respectfully ask all of you to bear with me. It takes me a bit of time to reach "critical mass" . . . but once I DO, I never look back.

#7 Dec 5 - 3PM (Reply to #20)

empath

recovery

Thinking about recovery and talking about recovery are very different from taking action to facilitate recovery. You don't need to ask anyone here to bear with you because it is entirely your decision to choose when you have had enough pain and are ready to begin working the six steps. No one else here has to endure your pain except you, and you will know when the time is right for you to say "enough is enough."

#8 Dec 5 - 11AM

Hermes

Aviatrix

Please step away from this. Find someone else to go into business with. If you haven't done so already cancel the whole thing -- walk away, while the going is good. Mindfulness means being aware, aware all the time. Our decisions today, the smallest ones even, configure our "tomorrow". Hermes

#9 Dec 5 - 11AM

Hunter

The Story of the Dog Whisperer

When I met the Dog Whisperer.. He had a "friend" a photography.. She set up his whole dog training web site.. ( if you want to call it that) it's more like it's all about me site.. I could tell she was so in love with him.. The talked everyday .. Walked their dog together every day.. Very weird.. When she introduced to me she was very passive aggressive.. It pissed me off.. The Dog Whisper mirrored her in every way.. Washed his bathroom out with bleach like she did.. Hung painings like she did .. Even his furniture was the same as hers.. No idenity.. I didn't realize the deal back then.. She is his little puppet ...Narcs are users you know that.. You my friend are the perfect source of constant supply.. Do you like that?. Tell this guy to take his site and shove it.. Actions speak louder thane words and silence speaks volumes. Just curious how did you find us? Welcome to Narcville .. Hunter

#10 Dec 5 - 3PM (Reply to #10)

Mindful Aviatrix

How I Found You ?

Hunter, I was afraid that someone was going to ask me that question. Truth be told, I have NO idea how I found you. I truly believe that I was guided here. The wheels are beginning to turn in my head again now that my mother is well and truly dead. ( Forgive me for sounding so hard-hearted but it is what it is. ) I knew "something" wasn't quite right with my friendship with this man but was far too distracted by my mother's impending demise to have the energy to connect-the-dots. Once I had navigated my way through her funeral and burial and returned home, I was stunned to discover that I was still in a measure of emotional pain. The pain of invalidation is unique onto itself. As I began to "check in" with myself, I realized that the difficulty lay with my N-friend. So forearmed, I hit Google with a vengeance. All I did was Google "Narcissistic Men" and follow the crumbs to this site. If memory serves, it wasn't one of the first "hits". But nonetheless, I still felt that I was being nudged to explore a bit deeper. And here I am.

#11 Dec 5 - 4PM (Reply to #11)

Hunter

Well welcome.. You say you

Well welcome.. You say you are saturated in Narcville and have many hours of counseling under your belt .. Yet you are stuck on a man which you have never been intimate... He indicates nothing more than friendship .. There are narc at every turn from, family, bosses friends, lovers, cyberspace, everywhere ... The only way to fight is boundaries and if it's very toxic as this sounds it is NC.. So I ask what is your plan of attack? Good Luck Hunter

#12 Dec 5 - 4PM (Reply to #12)

Mindful Aviatrix

Honesty and Shame

Hello again, Hunter . . . This N-friend of mine is "into" me for close to twenty thousand dollars. My plan of attack "was" to stay the course in this business venture until I got fully reimbursed. Now, I'm not so sure that I have the "chops" for it. I might just walk away and consider the financial loss as the price of a lesson learned. You see, compassionate, em"pathetic fool" that I am, I stepped up to the plate, so to speak, when he was just about one step away from becoming homeless when his last girlfriend walked out on him eight months ago. I helped him move, bought him groceries on NUMEROUS occasions, helped him buy a ten-year-old vehicle and arranged for automobile insurance. He has an eleven-year-old daughter. I began to pick her up at school and drive her to him on his alternate weekends of custody. At the time, I knew that our friendship was WAY out of balance but we were already starting to plan a joint business venture and I figured that I was just providing him with some "seed" money. He is a Master Painter. I've SEEN his work because he painted my entire home about nine months ago. I understood that he would likely need a bit of help with finessing the organizational details, especially since he appeared to be reeling from the loss of his girlfriend. We joked about the fact that "Michaelangelo doesn't do paperwork." He is currently a superintendent at an apartment complex about twenty minutes away from where I live. In this capacity, he is provided with an apartment, rent-free. However, his net salary is $1000.00 per month and he is eager to get his business (Painting / General Contracting) back up and running. That's where I come in, apparently. His brother, a professional Web designer, has created a spectacular Web presence for him. He will also be hosting it at no charge. It's up to ME to write the content and until that Website goes LIVE, he doesn't feel that he will be able to generate any leads. In other words, he seems to have it set up such that the responsibility for his ultimate success has been placed squarely upon my shoulders. I can write . . . Make no mistake. But when it comes to the content for his new site ? I've become immobilized by the worst case of writer's block imaginable. My plan of attack ? At this point, my plan of attack is to develop a plan of attack. Without feeling like a doorknob in the process . . .

#13 Dec 5 - 4PM (Reply to #13)

Hunter

Sounds like the doorknob

Sounds like the doorknob needs a lock... A "Master Painter" WTF" is a master painter?? Look if he's good and reliable his work is his advertising .. Not a website.. Cut your loses .. You must have a day job besides writing because 20k is not chump change.. Go to work and make up your losses toss him an his paint cans to the curb.. You've been had.. Hunter

#14 Dec 5 - 6PM (Reply to #16)

empath

Hunter is right

Cut your losses and consider that $20,000 a tuition payment for the education you've received. Otherwise, you'll just keep finding yourself footing the bills for the losses he incurs in his self employment misadventures...and he will incur losses...and you'll think if I just get him through this or that, he'll make it up later...and we all know tis is not the day it works. Narcs live on credit...they ormise and never pay up...whether its emotionally or financially...makes no difference. Whatever you've invested, consider it lost and let go of the idea that you might ever be repaid, as it will only keep you bound to the situation and in a consciousness of lack if you keep "believing" in this guy. No prideful grown adult male is going to mooch off of a woman like that...this guy is a con artist, and you have indeed been conned. Do you have receipts for any of this and have you inquired of him about his plans for repayment to you? My guess is you don,t and you haven't, or you would have seen what narcissistic rage is all about. If you have receipts for any of it and can establish that this was not a gift, hire an attorney, obtain a judgment and allow a collection agency to recover as much as they can for you. If you're not in a position to do this, perhaps you can at least write off most of the amount as a gift. Regardless, you are going to have to cut contact completely with this guy or he will continue to drain your resources for as long as you allow him to, or until you run out and he has no use for you anymore.

#15 Dec 5 - 5PM (Reply to #14)

Mindful Aviatrix

From the Doorknob

That twenty thousand dollars was part of my "nest egg". I am an educator who took early retirement at the age of 55. I am currently on a fixed income. And the more that I read here, the more that I suspect that I'm just another statistic. You know the one . . . Older woman getting JACKED by potential lucrative business opportunity. Almost as bad as those Nigerian e-mails, she writes ruefully. The Website is all about the "facade", darlin'. He met all kinds of people from the celebrity sports world at that wedding he attended on Saturday. (or so he said) He was some MIFFED at the fact that he couldn't direct them to that dog and pony show online. As for his designation as a "Master Painter" ? I do believe he crowned himself with that title.

#16 Dec 5 - 11PM (Reply to #15)

Done sourcing

Painting ain't rocket

Painting ain't rocket science...an ad on a truck, business cards, and word of mouth gets good painters work. Own up to what really pisses you off about what didn't happen in the relationship, and that truth will set and keep you free. Investing 20,000 in a business that grosses 1,000 a month was risky, which is why I believe you wanted something else for your buck that he didn't provide. You got narced good. They are ruthless, especially when they find willing participants like us. I fiound that I was trying to replay some family of origin issues, and sub-consciously wanted to work this relationship out, therefore getting final closure on the childhood stuff. In therapy, I learned I could work on the childhood stuff directly, without the aid of a surrogate sick puke present day edifice. You will expend energy you can't afford and time you can't get back chasing love and money that you will never get. That isn't brutal, it is just the truth. Revenge doesn't work. The best case is what you yourself said, lesson learned and don't look back. You were on your way to hell, now you have turned around and are walking back up the stairs. It may get tiring, and lonely...but you will be walking with a purpose. I've gone from life isn't fair to life is good! You will too! ds

#17 Dec 5 - 11AM

Done sourcing

You keep walking into shit.

You keep walking into shit. Walk away from it. It will always be shit. If you are trying to figure out how to navigate through this dysfunctional relationship, good luck! It won't work because you and he are opposing forces, and always will be. The lesson isn't how to figure out how to make it work, the lesson is get away and stay away. The pattern looks familiar, and how has that worked out for you so far in life? It can't be fixed, so the obvious solution is to walk away. But of course it has become a tangled web, and to quote a movie and a book, it's complicated. But only because you are engaged in it, and are tied by bonds deep and strong. Your mindfullness training should bring to you an understanding of your attachment to this mess. I would guess you don't want it to end, you just want it to be different. That is the big tell that you're ego is running the show. Detach from the plans and desires of your ego and be free. Let go of it all. It will never make you happy, and in fact it will take you further and further away from where you truly want to go. No need to be a Monk, as separation from sickness just requires a new decision, not a major physical move. Walk away from chaos, walk away from resentment, walk away from the resistance, walk away from hurt and pain. Trust that God has your back, and will guide you to peace and emotional safety...all you need do is decide differently than you have in the past. If you are like most of us you are thinking, yeah, but... I have a couple of old wise sages in my life, and they say that everything after but is bullshit. The easiest way to get out of a tangled web is to start cutiing, decisively and quickly. Don't bring more rope, just cut the cord and begin a new life. ds

#18 Dec 5 - 2PM (Reply to #8)

empath

"but..." and "try..."

Thank you for bringing this up, DS! "But" negates everything that preceded it. Anyone seeking to lead an authentic life should remove this word from their vocabulary, along with the other disempowering word, "try".

#19 Dec 5 - 11AM

empath

Mindful A

Right action, right livelihood...if you are a Buddhist you will NOT continue to pursue the idea of going into business with this person. If you do, it will be your own karma that will cause you suffering. If there is any one thing that you must grasp right now it is that neither you or anyone else can "cure" this person, and the only path for you is to go No Contact with him. Embrace the awakening and accept the lesson it contains, do not allow it to continue any further. Pain has a way of increasing until we give it our attention. Read Pema Chodron. Read about "shenpa" and how we get hooked. Read Sam Vaknin. Find out what "inverted Narcissism" is. You will not "cure" this person and may Heaven help you if you should decide to try.

#20 Dec 5 - 10AM

spinning

Only you know the answer, Mindful A

It looks to me like your eyes are wide open and you're continuing to choose this. Do you like this feeling? And you're going to go into business? And do all the work? And "fall in love?" These are all choices you're making. Only you know why. Maybe your therapist knows, too. I'm a Buddhist who practices mindfulness and enjoy all of the "peaceful benefits." This scenario does not seem mindful to me. It seems you are not being mindful of yourself, your feelings, your emotions and your mental and spiritual health by choosing to engage with someone who confounds and confuses and hurts you. You do have a CHOICE in all this, MA. There's no great mystery about choosing the path you're on. Just my two cents. Most sincerely, (not) spinning. IT'S A CHOICE AND I CHOOSE MYSELF.

spinning

#21 Dec 5 - 10AM (Reply to #2)

Mindful Aviatrix

Thank You, Spinning

Many thanks for taking the time to reply. My eyes ARE, indeed, wide open . . . yet at the same time I think I'm in the grip of repetitive compulsion or something equally crippling. I think, subconsciously, I'm trying to "get it right" this time. I'm trying to prove to myself that THIS narcissist won't get the better of me . . . that I'll be able to control HIM . . . that it will be the ULTIMATE vindication for all of the chronic trauma that I suffered at the hands of my family-of-origin. As I write this, I become aware of how twisted, futile, arrogant and EGO-driven such an agenda really is . . . subconscious or not. Bottom line ? These slot machines don't pay.

#22 Dec 5 - 11AM (Reply to #3)

spinning

Keep reading here, MA, and your

agenda will change. You will never "win." You will never be "in control." You will never "get it right" with a personality disordered individual if you stay engaged. How you will "get it right" is through No Contact. This person is a USER and I believe you know this in your heart and gut or you wouldn't be here. It's up to you how much time, money and effort you want to ship down the bottomless black hole. I'm sorry to put it so bluntly, but it is the truth. I have been there. I must say I didn't know as much as you do and yet continue to proceed. I was sucked in by a masked predator and later discovered that I was chosen as prey for a reason. That's when the grand discovery that I had to eliminate those "reasons" from my existence came into effect. You know what's going on here yet you are choosing it. You don't have to choose it. You can resist it for your own health and well being (not to mention financial future as I suspect this guy will suck you dry). Compulsions and patterns are difficult—but not impossible—to break and/or change. It is up to YOU to change them. Change the script of what is acceptable in your life; of what nurtures it and makes it grow and thrive, and of what you do not tolerate in the way of pain, confusion, chaos or deception. That's where true freedom lies. As this is a site focused on recovery, it is from this aspect I approach your situation. YOu will never recover and discover the truth about why you are attracted to such painful and confusing situations as long as that influence remains in your life. Most sincerely, (not) spinning. IT'S A CHOICE AND I CHOOSE ME.

spinning

#23 Dec 5 - 12PM (Reply to #5)

nomoredenial

Moments of intense emotional

Moments of intense emotional intimacy together ( or what I thought was intense emotional intimacy ) were ALWAYS being followed by him pulling some sort of bone-head stunt that would leave me reeling and marginalized. 14 years and it never changed for me 10 years in business with one and guess who did all the work? End it now.....

#24 Dec 5 - 12PM (Reply to #4)

walking_on_sunshine

Narcissists who keep

Narcissists who keep "friends" of the opposite sex are for nothing more than supply. You are being used

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