Im living hell, the saddness is overwhelming someone please tell me it will go away

36 posts / 0 new

#1 Aug 16 - 6PM

jaycee

Im living hell, the saddness is overwhelming someone please tell me it will go away

Oh someone please, please tell me why i would be so sad to have finally gotten rid of my hN. I threw him out and now I am dying inside, I cry all day long, Im sick to my stomach and can't understand why I would care what happens to a man who never loved me and wasted twenty four years of my life. He repeatedly cheated, tortured me with his latest whore for over two years, and I still am so sick inside, missing the illusion, the man with the mask, who pretended to love, honor and protect me all the days of my life. why can't I just continue to see him without the mask and know he is nothing but a monster, and man without a soul, without a conscience, a man who would destroy my life and lives of his children for the pleasure of another woman. He pushes and pulls and pushes and pulls, but when i try no contact he goes crazy. I wish I could make him disappear from my mind and my heart, can someone anyone please tell me this pain will go away. someone tell me he will do the same to his horrid rotten dirty whore mistress he is now living with..........tell me it wasnt because he just didnt love me and the kids, tell me its because he cannot love anyone but himself. Im dying here, I need someone to tell me he will move on from her and continue the path he had taken our entire marriage and that he wont change, he wont become some overnight miracle, and decide she is the one and love her and honor her and protect her the way he was supposed to do for me................

#2 Sep 10 - 11AM

lisalisa47

HI Sweet Jaycee

That is it exactly - missing the false illusions of a person who in reality, never existed. I think all of us here are warm, fuzzy women, who at heart, believe in love. Speaking for myself, I am a simple girl - I just wanted a soul mate who connected with ME, saw ME, and liked me anyway. LOL When you are given a beautiful gift and you have it for even a little while, it takes TIME to realize that "the emperor wasn't wearing any clothes", and that the gift was false. WE feel like WE failed to keep it. But it's not true. What these men do is rape your heart and soul, probably because that's what happened to them in their lives, and it;s all they know how to do, but none the less, it is WRONG. I think the hardest thing for most of us to do is to be our own best friend. In my case, I kept looking for someone else to take care of. I know that now. Jaycee - You, I and everyone else on this board should practice taking the time to get to know ourselves. Bet we will find we are pretty cool people, each one of us, and are so worth the love we used to lavish on the man that wasted it and cared not. Love Lisa

LML

#3 Sep 10 - 1PM (Reply to #35)

jaycee

hi sweet jaycee

lisa thank you for your words, i know so true. would you please read my other post about him admitting to being selfish and tell me what you think.........thanks jaycee

Jaycee

#4 Sep 9 - 9PM

neverlookback

BINGO

missing the illusion, the man with the mask, who pretended to love, Thats WHY!!!! You are not missing what he did to you, you are missing what you wanted him to be and what he pretended to be for you and that hurts like hell. I mean werent they great when that mask was on and that illusion was on high beam? Honey dont get stuck in mourning for that dream and illusion, I tell myself if I want to cry over the bastard I will cry over the horrible betrayal he did to me, if that illusion was so great and seemed so real I ask myself then why was the damage so great? If mine was everything he pretended to be I would be happier than a little pig playing in poop, but they NEVER NEVER turn out to be what they pretended to be to us or anyone. that is the heartbreak and total destruction of being exposed to these misfits we have to forget that illusion which is everything we all ever wanted, poof, up in smoke, gone and we want it back so badly, but you cant hold on to something that was never real. Hugs to you I hope these moments will pass for both of us I know how painful they are too

#5 Sep 10 - 5AM (Reply to #33)

jaycee

bingo

Never, I know exactly what you are saying, I do think sometimes i miss the man with the mask, but in actuality, i am mourning over the total and utter betrayal of the person I thought i loved so much, the pain and heartache are so difficult for all of us. it is that horrible betrayal and the d and d that cause the pain, more so than anything else. i feel the crushing blow of being totally disgarded every time he cheated, lied, and gave his illusion to another. I know deep in my heart he is doing and will do the same to every woman in his life, including his own daughter. his love for her is only when he needs to see his own reflection, as if she is an extention of him, like look, my gorgeous daughter, shes gorgeous because she looks like me, but when she needs him, emotionally, hes void, as he is and has been with me, and all the woman he spins in his web. i pray the overwhelming saddness and pain decrease as time goes by, but knowing he is wearing the mask for someone else, having a new homebase, eats me alive, I know homebase is the worse place to be, but still, his whore, is living the illusion, living with the man who i thought he once was, enjoying the pretend love and affection, feeling victorious that she fought so hard a wife had to throw her husband out, and im sure he convinced her that is what he had wanted, but in reality, he wanted his cake and to eat it too.........but the betrayal and the thought of this evil woman eat me alive, between the hurt and the anger, my mind and heart are in such turmoil. it sucks....but thank you for your words, i pray we all feel better and stronger very soon........hugs to you........

Jaycee

#6 Aug 18 - 2PM

terri

I read your story and my

I read your story and my heart really hurts for you as it was only a few months ago that I was exactly where you are. The pain, sadness, lost feeling, loss of any enthusiasm for life, all of these feelings were so opposite of who I used to be! There is one thing that I do every day that I hope you can begin doing right away: I focus on ME and WHAT I WANT and NOT ON HIM. I know that's much easier said than done but it's what you have to do! I think about these things: What I want my life to look like (without him) What I want next month to look like Imagine yourself with your friends having fun and laughing Imagine yourself with your family getting comfort and support Imagine yourself going somewhere you've always wanted to go Get exercise Take a class Be around people having fun and being positive every chance you get Avoid being alone as much as possible I'm sure other readers will have other suggestions but the most important thing is to remember to take life ONE DAY AT A TIME. Before you know it, it doesn't hurt as much. You start to feel stronger and more like yourself - or even reinvent yourself to be the person you know you can be. Read the postings on this site and take comfort that you are not alone and that this is NOT your fault. Get as many books on Narcissistic Personality Disorder as you can and read, read, read. BEfore you know it, you're feeling so much better about yourself and your future and thankful that you're not dealing with the torture of your ex-N anymore. YOU DID THE RIGHT THING. It takes time to recover for everyone. BE STRONG! LOVE YOU, Terri

Believe in yourself!
Terri

#7 Aug 18 - 9PM (Reply to #31)

jaycee

i read your story and my

terri, thank you for your kind words i am going to try and do this as the pain is overwhelming and i cant get it together. the unbearable saddness has taken over my normally jovial personality and i dont like being like this. i want to feel better, please ask God to answer my prayers, as I know i will then feel much better. thank you you are so kind, love, jaycee

Jaycee

#8 Aug 17 - 10PM

Chloe

I am sorry you're in pain

Jaycee, I had the same thing happen to me, only my marriage lasted 23 years. What you are missing is what should have been, not what it was. You really should seek counseling and read all you can on the topic of narcissism. It will put things into perspective. Long after the narcissist leaves or you leave him, his ghost will remain. It is very painful, but in the end it will be rewarding for you. Read, "Malignant Self Love," that will give you a perspective on how he thinks. He can not love you or anyone. He does not know how to love. He can not empathize. He will not change--ever!!! They are very good at looking cool, calm, and collected to those that don't know him. He will make you look like the crazy one, and you will feel that you are, but you are NOT the crazy one, he is!!!

#9 Aug 18 - 8AM (Reply to #27)

jaycee

im sorry you're in pain

chloe, you are right, his ghost will remain for a long time, and i will be in pain for a long time. i miss the illusion, but am also scared he might change for this girl, he might become someone else, or truth be, his mask will not come off for years to come and he will stay with her for along time or even marry her. he always tells his whores i was crazy and he didnt love me and was so unhappy with me, told this one, she saved him from a life of misery with me the crazy bitch. where can i find maligant self love?

Jaycee

#10 Aug 18 - 2PM (Reply to #28)

Chloe

Jaycee, First of all, your

Jaycee, First of all, your feelings are real and important. You need to give yourself a very big loving hug. Second, his mask may not drop right away, but it will. Remember, he has learned what to do and not to do with the next one in line. You have provided him with ammunition, and he has used it thus far for his own personal gain by using it against you. Eventually, his own ammunition will destroy him. He will certanily be seen for who he is, and when he is, if you have any feelings left, it will only be of sorrow for him, that is if you have learned to forgive him in your heart. You have a road of recovery for yourself yet. It's important. I read everything I could get my hand on, including "Malignant Self Love," by Sam Vaknin. I have discovered that some people on this very same link have spoken badly of him, as he is a renounced narcissist himself. It is what YOU take from it. It did so much good for me, as I was able to put many things in perspective. Some here, dismiss him, I say, take it for what it's worth. All you have to do is google the book or author's name and you will get to where you need to go. I am not one to promote books of people who do more harm than good, but I took this book for information only! After speaking to a narcissist from a support group, he verified all that this book already told me. It's worth looking into and you can take it for what it's worth.

#11 Aug 18 - 2PM (Reply to #29)

Chloe

Also

There is something called the "Madonna-Whore syndrome," it will tell you more about it in the book. Pathological narcissists can not commit to love and have intimacy in the way that you and I know. They can only have "SEX" with the "whore," as it is forbidden. The Madonna is all good and worthy, therefore, he cannot let go and make love, because he can not love in the sense of the word that you and I know.

#12 Aug 17 - 7PM

not-an-idiot

The odds of him having a

The odds of him having a epiphany that will make him not be Dr. Jeckyll & Mr. Hyde to the other woman is so slim. He has a better chance of getting struck by lightning or winning the lottery. I'm going through the same right now. The physical and emotional pain, the crying, angst and anger, bitter loneliness, feelings of worthlessness, loss of hope for any future, not to mention the extreme exhaustion. My recent coping mechanism has been through singing. I have sang, cried through, and had fits of rage while listening to the band Nine Inch Nails. I recommend "Terrible Lie" and "Something I Can Never Have" by NIN. Trent Reznor really has a way with words that can touch me straight to my core. I hope this helps.

#13 Aug 17 - 7PM (Reply to #25)

jaycee

the odds of him having a

thanks not for sharing, hope he has a better shot at getting struck by lightning........will you read and respond to my newer post, i need to know what you think pls........

Jaycee

#14 Aug 17 - 8AM

janine

Faith

This is so very, very hard for you, Jaycee. When I go to church, I shall light a candle and pray for you to get calm. In the worst phases of this process, when no therapist, loving friend and simply nothing could reach me, this is what I did. Go and sit in a quiet church, watch the light of the flickering candles and trust that there will be that light for you at the end of the tunnel, too. Once, in great despair, I asked God to please give me a sign I could cling to and show me the way. I came out and right infront of the church there was a car parked with a huge sticker on the window saying "It is only with the heart you can see properly. The essential is invisible to the eyes." It is a quotation from a book I know well called "The little prince"(I hope my translation is correct). So that was my message, when I was stuck analysing all, refusing to feel. Get centred in faith, and you will find your answer and your way. Let go and let God.

#15 Aug 16 - 8PM

Susan32

In my prayers

You're in my prayers. We've all been there. We're head over heels in love with someone who goes from admiring us... to considering us disgusting the moment they see we're human. It's terrible to suffer through. The crying jags. Being alone. Feeling completely misunderstood. People telling you "move on." It's crushing. Even during the D&D, when my ex-P was making a point of tormenting me, I was still attracted to him, I wanted to be with him. It IS a confusing, painful experience. Don't forget that you are a good, precious person. You're a good HUMAN. You weren't so much targeted for being a woman but for being HUMAN.

#16 Aug 16 - 7PM

helldweller

jaycee

Please understand that 1) you were chosen by him to assault because you are a particularly remarkable person in every way 2)that they pick people like you because it is more satisfying to destroy wonderful women 3)that nothing good is ever going to come to him or anyone else he "hooks up with" Pray, talk to us, pray, talk to us. It is a fucking nightmare from hell to have been with these people. I am drunk and crying right now, as are half the people on this board. It is a total mindfuck and none of us saw it coming, whether for twenty four hours or twenty four years. Blessings, prayers, prayers, prayers. If you need me to talk on the phone let me know and I'll get your number

#17 Aug 16 - 8PM (Reply to #19)

jaycee

Im living hell....

helldweller, thank you so much for what you said, I know I am a remarkable person, I know I am better than that whore and all the other whores in between, yet the pain is so friggin exhausting and hurts so much. I pray all day and all night, I beg God to please answer my prayers, I pray you are right when you say nothing good will come to him or his whore. but she now has the illusion of the perfect man, the one who dotes on her, as he cheats on her left and right, and tells her she saved him from a horrible marriage to an insane bitch, yes, he tells her hes finally found love, so she flauts their relationship and tells the world how she saved him, as he still texts me calls me comes here and tells me how much he misses me and loves me and doesnt love her. that makes the pain more unbearable, i pray you are right and that nothing good will come to them. please keep writing to me, it helps so much...thank you Jaycee

Jaycee

#18 Aug 16 - 8PM (Reply to #21)

helldweller

jaycee

It's a nightmare; I wont' tell you it isn't. Mine is out right now with his little brother and his foster child He and his brother are judges in Chicago and can't be touched by anyone. they are being admired and their asses kissed by people who don't know my daughters and I exist. It is an unfathomable nightmare and if I was a godforsaken loser I could swallow it but I'm not. I'm incredibly accomplished and my daughters are beyond wondeful. He could not deal with that. He could not deal with it. He has to have the spotlight; he cannot be with a strong woman. It's the same thing with you. It's so horrible to accept that there are people like this. I am forty one and my ex-husband, a firefighter, committed arson six years ago. I could not even believe that he was evil, and he isn't. But my narc is evil. I never thought anyone was evil in my whole life. But my narc is evil. Honey you have to accept evil. That is the bottom line in all of this. That is something none of us has ever done and we all have had to cross that line and accept it. Prayers and blessings. Hang on. You are not even to the place where you can start anyting. Just think, "There is evil in the world" When you get there there are things you can do. But that is a huge hurdle.

#19 Aug 16 - 8PM (Reply to #20)

helldweller

jaycee

#20 Aug 16 - 7PM

faithinthefuture

Reading this made me cry

Reading this made me cry jaycee. I know that heart wrenching deeper than anyone knows heartache. It physically hurts every part of your body. You can't move or think. You are spinning around and have no where to go and don't know what to do to end that god awful fricking pain. And we don't just cry. WE SOB! AND WAIL WITH THE PAIN! AND SCREAM AND CURSE AND HURT SOME MORE! And then I tried to answer all the questions spinning in my head How could you How could I be so stupid How could I not have known you really never loved me How could you have been so fake How can you just walk away from all we shared How could you have lied and cheated on me who wanted everything with you They are not real jaycee. I forgot the name of the post but you need to find the one Betty just wrote. It's amazing! As she said they will NEVER be happy with anyone. It's all an illusion! They will continue to abuse and lie and cheat and never change! I'm a lil over 4 months NC. You are where I was then. I thank God every day for this board! It has given me the brutal honesty of what kind of a relationship I was in. and don't ever want to be in again. The Ns make us think they are happy. But I find peace knowing he is living a miserable sad lonely soul less life and he will never change! I find him pathetic! don't look at the fake image look at the REAL him. You won't want him back!

#21 Aug 16 - 8PM (Reply to #16)

jaycee

reading this made me cry

faith, Im sorry i made you cry, but thank you so much for all you said, I pray mine too, is living a miserable sad lonely soul less life and he will never change, maybe his facade with his whore is just that, a facade and he is truly miserable and regrets every second of every minute with her. i know the real image of the monster, but she has my illusion, the one i thought was real, and that kills me. he cheats and lies to her i know that, but she doesnt and she thinks shes got him and won, she saved him from the insane me and his awful marriage, the one where he played the i love you more than anything, i would die without you.etc.....please continue to tell me its all fake there too, and that i wasnt the only one he was fake with....continue to tell me he is pathetic, because deep down i know he is, i just need to go no contact and start grieving without his interference, because its double the grief now. please keep talking to me............thanks Jaycee

Jaycee

#22 Aug 16 - 10PM (Reply to #17)

faithinthefuture

I cried for you

I cried for you jaycee because you are a feeling a pain like you have never felt and I pray will never feel again. don't be sorry I cried. it helped me remember why I don't ever want to be with him and go thru that again. There is no maybe that he's living a facade with her. For now she does have our illusion...that one we fell in love with.That man who loved us more than life itself and couldn't live without us because we gave him our heart body and soul. and then we asked for just a little in return & we were psycho & asked soo much & who the hell did we think we were for questioning what they said or did. and the real man showed his colors. and we became paranoid, anxiety ridden, walked on egg shells. That's not love. jaycee it is just that... an illusion.I promise!He will use the same words with her as he did with you. He can't think of words of his own because he doesn't have real feelings. Stop asking yourself why he couldn't love you. He can't love anyone! When a man really loves a woman they don't treat them like we were treated. He will treat her the same way. and he'll get worse in how he treats her. I found some comfort in that. He will never love anyone like we know love is supposed to be. We've always wanted that perfect love...to find our soul mate. When a person finds their soul mate it lasts forever. Not for a few months or a few years with how many OW in between. I still love that illusion. I probably always will. But I won't ever go back to it. I want the real thing. I deserve the real thing. And so do you! And when it happens it won't be an illusion.

#23 Aug 16 - 7PM

wholeagain

I'm sorry you're having a bad time

The grief is so hard sometimes, I know, and it can feel like it will never end. Mix it with anger and it's even worse. You know what he is now, but you still are grieving loss of a lot of things--the illusion, your idea of relationships and love, hopes that you had. There's really no way around this part of it except reaching out for support, crying if you need to, writing and letting it move through you. Leopards don't change their spots, they just don't. I was the OW in a way, and I got what his wonderful, intelligent first wife got only worse. And I was stuck in it longer. He may go crazy when you try NC but you're going crazy when you aren't NC...and you need to take care of you, and your kids. NC will allow you the distance you need to see things more clearly.

#24 Aug 16 - 8PM (Reply to #2)

jaycee

i'm sorry you're having a bad time

thanks whole again, it was nice to hear you call his first wife wonderful and intelligent, im sure she was, and im sure her pain was immense as well. please tell me what you mean when you say you got what his first wife did, but only worse, how is that? please explain how they treat the next one, i imagine happiness, love making, fun, trips and a great honeymoon period, i cant imagine my hN not wooing this one day and night and keeping his mask on, as he cheats and lies to her, too bad she didnt know it.......she thinks shes the one and they are going to get married and live happily ever after........so please talk to me, tell me more.........Jaycee

Jaycee

#25 Aug 17 - 6AM (Reply to #7)

Used

jaycee

never is anyone get diffrent to what we got, please remember this,this is what ow got with mine, get a job, so he didnt need to,answer his and pay his bills for him, cook what he wanted not what she wanted, drive me here ,there anywhere, he still lived in his own place, she still bought his, clothes, bedding, crockery and so on, but doesnt even stay there[its a dump, he stays with her if she is lucky[lol], cos as he put it he can f,,k off when he wants, which can be 2in morning when he has got what he want,s. please dont think they are getting better than you, its worse, cos the next woman pays for the failure of his last relationship, he gets worse each time, one day you will look at this and be glad you survived,as i do, even my shrink said i was lucky too get out alive, i believe there comes a point in there life as the years go on, that they could eventually kill if you stay with them, mine threatened this enough. she is getting sod all. lovexxx

#26 Aug 17 - 6AM (Reply to #8)

jaycee

Used, I hope you are right, but mine lives with his whore, yes she pays for everything, buys him everything, worships him as if he were God, and feel she saved him from his horrible life with me. she believes she is the one, so right now she is getting the man with the mask, the wonderful, loving, do all the little things for you guy. so i hope so enough she will get worse than i did, i hope he becomes this miserable, rotten stinking partner for her. but hes so good at what he does, he rarely lets the mask slip, it took me twenty four years to really see the man behind the mask, as up until three days before i threw him out he was telling me he would die without me, and then sneaked off to be with her. i dont know in my case if she will get worse than i did, as i was his doormat and she is his payoff, financial freedom, freedom to go out to dinner every night, have new clothes, sneakers, all the illegal steroids he wants, because she pays for them, so i doubt he will screw it up with her. i was his ball and chain, and she is his sugar momma, so i dont know if she will get worse, i do know he does cheat on her but she has no clue, she really believes she is the one............Jaycee

Jaycee

#27 Aug 17 - 7AM (Reply to #9)

Used

jaycee

please believe me i am talking from experience, when he [exh]introduced ow to someone ,he introduced her as some old tart, she was there with him when he said it, and she looked down, and that was in the honeymoon period. i didnt know about her till this year, but he was still coming here for a visit and taking me shopping, and giving me money to treat my self, does this sound like he is happy, she hasnt met our adult kid,s cos they said they wont meet her, can you imagine how that makes her feel, and he would take a delight in telling her how our kids had said it. they never never change. while the n was in a 3 year relationship[no i didnt know] he was sending me texts telling me he loved me.and never said i loved him. and where was i, and how he was half a man without me,lol and i was to good for him, when his ow came and told me about there relationship, i showed her all the texts[ i hadnt kept them cos i loved him i kept then cos i knew a day would come when i needed them] i had been married to the biggest liar there was for 31 years, i learned a lot off that man,exh i also told her he had stalked me for nearly 2 years, it was true, she was gutted, but her telling about the 2 of them wasent for my benifit it was for hers. so she got a wake up call, all she kept saying was he has used me, he has used me, and the reason he doesnt live with anyone is 1 he needs to be able to leave when it suits him and 2 he would lose his goverment money if he lived with someone, so that way he gets to keep his own home, not silly is he, he has years of practice, but i am not silly either, cos i had years of practice living with exh, OH WHAT A TANGLED WEB THEY WEAVE< WHEN THEY PRACTICE TO DECIEVE.

#28 Aug 17 - 10AM (Reply to #10)

jaycee

used

used, how funny you say this, my two children refer to her as his dirty fn whore and both have told him they dont ever want to meet her and they never will. my daughter said shed spit in her face if she ever looked at her...my son says he has no use for the dirty fn whore, that i am his mother and his father is a piece of shit who can have his whore. i dont think this bothers the whore, i think she rather likes having him and him alone without our children although they are nineteen and twenty one. he told my daughter at first, i dont want you to meet her, i dont know how long i will be with her, and my daughter simply said, i have no interest and he never brought it up again, but he is the fake facade with her right now, hes loven her up and making her feel as if she is the one. right now, i think hes happy with her this week, it comes and goes when they fight hes all over the i miss yous even more so than as he does it on a daily basis. too bad for him, hes thrown away a perfectly wonderful wife and beautiful children. but i pray he moves on from her, and soon. as i will be so relieved when shes out of the picture and he has someone new, someone who didnt torture me for two years...........this whore's a real ballsy bitch. hope she gets hers............

Jaycee

#29 Aug 17 - 10AM (Reply to #11)

Used

jaycee

she will, and what sort of slag is he that he let her give you grief, but if you think everything in the garden is lovely, it aint, she has to keep up the facade, b/c she made so much of getting it, for her to ever admit he isnt worth the trouble, is not going to happen. and as for her not beign bothered your kids not liking her doesnt bother her, it is a lie, even the toughest person out there wants to be accepted by there bf/gf,s family, its human nature, and myex kept it from my kids and me for 11years,[wow he must be well proud of her[lol] i found out from a member of his own family. cos if the shit hits the fan they wanted me to know.the shit didnt hit the fan from me cos i didnt care, another blow to his ego. it would hurt myexh,that our kids think bad of him, he was known once by them from me he was a good dad and i always felt and said this, but that was an illusion as well and it must of hurt her, that she knew about us, but we didnt know about her. i would feel someone was ashamed of me if they were with me, but his family had to be kept in the dark. why? i would have to think why.was myexh ashamed of himself, that would be a first.

#30 Aug 17 - 10AM (Reply to #12)

jaycee

used

to be honest, i dont think she gives a crap as long as he plays family with her sometimes kid, who has a wonderful father from what i have learned through mutual friend, who hates the whore his ex wife and hates my husband with a passion and doesnt want his kid with them. she is only interested in having my husband not my kids, she could care less that his own son hates him and says ma, that piece of shit is dead to me, so dont bring him up to me again. he knows that, my hN, and doesnt care. they are so self consumed, and when he comes here, its not about missing his family its about keeping me in his web for supply. he really is a sick patho and if and when she realizes this, i will laugh for days..........lets hope she learns really quick what she fought so hard for. maybe God will open her eyes and mind and let her see the man behind the mask......hahahaha

Jaycee

#31 Aug 17 - 11AM (Reply to #13)

Used

jaycee

i am not saying this to make you feel better ,ime saying what i know to be true, tho exn,s woman still stayed with him, after me telling her that he said he hadnt seen her for years,[how insulting was that] they had been in a 3year relationship, but anyhow her daughter detests him, and it realy bothers him, cos everyone shoulde adore them, he never told me this his ow did, when i said so name hates you the look on his face was priceless, he couldnt believe the ow had told me ,he said that c..t, that disloyal c..t, then he began defaming the daughter as well and then the son, who ow thinks he likesthe son[they are adults] i said to her uses the kids to get to the mother[ the daughter obviously didnt fall for his charms, but my point is he said, she brings me up night and day, why do you still see her[i dont see him now] and how many rows they have over me, and if you dont think they row over you,her and him you are wrong, they fought so hard to get them, and they know they got nothing. he stills comes to you on any old pretext. and exn, still came back to me even tho she said i dont want you seeing her, so thats why i did. for a while if they leave you for someone else, they will leave the someone else for someone else, she knows that, do you think she likes him seeing you, and he will always say, i have to we have kids together, what can she say to that. she is clinging on for dear life, and it shows what he thinks of her, what he said to your daughter. what a man.

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