I feel...

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#1 Jan 11 - 1PM
therose
therose's picture

I feel...

old emotions again, it was an effective action on his part. Especially liking something as personal for me as my writing which is a main component of my life, as is y mother's memory. Now I am getting all kinds of feelings stirried up, not enough to break NC that he imposed, mind you, but it's still very hard for me at this point not to think I am being unreasonably mean to him, at least in how I have portrayed him.

I know that's not really true, I hafen't chimed in on everything on here, and where he hasn't done what other N's have done, I have made note of it. He did show he was sorry when he was, and did show appreciation for things I did, he was reliable and yes, we fought, but I also know my grief, and my issues with my father and god knwos what diabetes uncontrolled makes me like, but now I want to change and work on those things for me, can't I extend him the same possibility? Not fair I guess for me to point fingers or call him a monster or any name when I know my own stuff to deal with.

Anyone else get this way? I really don't think I have been as bas as I am feeling I have been. Most of what I have called him out on is just so I don't let someone throw a show on me agan about something as serious as marriage and taking care of a child without backing it up both with proof and showing kindness to people. I was different when he met me, so insecure and didn't think I was desirable. I really came on to him in that way and he even said at first we shouldn't talk like that, but I was messed up. He probably knew he had problems with how he can be.

I don't know, I think he has N tendencies, yes, but I don't think he is unaware of it. And I do think people can change, and I do think it happened in his childhood, he wasn't born a monster or even meant to ever be one. I know you ladies are rolling your eyes, but I am just making sure I always look in the mirror too, I wasn't exactly acting like a strong woman with boundaries when this all got started.

Got a school thing and making my eye appointment today so I will be back later in the day, but would love to have your support, you can bet I stsay NC cuz again I am too afraid to ever speak again, but yeah, these thoughts go through my head even when I am mad at him.

M

Jan 11 - 9PM
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

He sounds like a classic N

He sounds like a classic N to me. You cant change him keep reading Rose. You sound just like me when I first arrived here. In time you will see. He hasnt D and D'd you enough yet. I am afraid you will have to go back for more. I know I did many times. Its just something you have to figure out for yourself we can tell you over and over but some people have to experience it. I cant tell you how sincerely remorseful the N was to me when he popped back into my life and I actually think he may have meant it at that moment in time but he has an illness that keeps him from any real change and sure enough the ugliness reared its ugly head after a wonderful honeymoon period. It was an instant replay of what happened 15 years ago only this time it happened much faster.
Jan 11 - 9PM
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Diabetes

You aren't being unreasonably mean. You gave him TONS of leeway, out of genuine and sincere love. He simply took advantage of those boundaries. You're a healthy person- mentally- unlike him. The diabetes issue strikes home with me. The ex-Psych professor would try to control my eating, because his father is diabetic. He said he was concerned for me. It turns out yes... his father is diabetic, and it's the type that's induced by stress/insomnia. Deep down, I think the ex-P probably caused it. The ex-P would brag about driving his parents crazy with his antics. Toxic personalities DO make normal people sick.
Jan 11 - 2PM
Hunter
Hunter's picture

Rose

What Briseis said sums it up, I've been there. My advice is NC. It's the only option. If you dont believe it, call him, my guess is you won't hear what you want. You will be further devalued and abused. Sometimes we need to learn for ourselves first hand. They have a problem that you can not fix. I wish it was different. I think you deserve better, I think you need to go NC and move on. Delete,Delete,Delete! It's not important what I think/know. It's up 2 u. Be strong Idealk
Jan 11 - 2PM
Briseis
Briseis's picture

I think I get what you are

I think I get what you are saying. Why can't you extend that same compassion to him? This is a good and generous thing to do, when you are dealing with a NON personality disordered person. But you've convinced me and the rest of your new sisters here that your ex is classically personality disordered. Maybe YOU aren't completely convinced yet, but you are new here and you are just beginning to understand what personality disorder even means. As for the veterans on this board, we are going by the behaviors you've described in your posts. They SHOUT "Narc!!" NPD, and any personality disorder, is not being neurotic or troubled or having issues to work through. Personality disorders are chronic, life-long and so far incurable mental disorders. Even the psychiatrists have only been able to theorize about how to treat them, but so far, very little has been shown to be effective. It absolutely SUCKS to consider a person an "incurable" but honey, people are diagnosed with incurable diseases all the time. You yourself have an incurable disease :( . You would have died as a child if not for the treatments provided to you, and most importantly your WILLINGNESS to submit to the treatments, poke yourself with needles and check your blood sugars and moderate your diet and insulin intake. The worst thing about personality disorders is that the person with one is, in their own mind "just fine", it's everyone else that is crazy or out to get them. They are incapable of the self insight that you take for granted, it's one of the big symptoms of personality disorders -- an inability to look inside and see themselves. It's part of their disease. It would be a kind and decent thing to do to extend your compassion to someone who is asking for help, who WANTS help and is willing to submit to getting the help. Your Narc has not done this. Yep, I'm saying that without even knowing him. If you had related to your diabetes as not YOUR problem, but some kind of victimization where people chased you around with glucose monitors and strips and needles full of insulin, you'd be dead. Instead, you took responsibility for your condition. Your Narc is "sick" in that exact place where he would have to be willing to get some help for himself. His willingness to seek help is missing, and that is a symptom of his illness. His ability to see himself as needing help is missing, and that too is a symptom of his illness. I'd rather have diabetes anyday than a disease that prevents me from acknowledging I even HAVE one :( Once you understand NPD and personality disorders in general, you will know that extending your compassion to him does NOT mean to give him more and more chances with you. True compassion, when it comes to PDIs, means allowing them to suffer the consequences of their behavior. ONLY in this way is there even a glimmer of hope that they will hit "bottom" and come to realize they might wish to live life differently. That means, when they dump you, let them suffer the consequences of dumping you. You are dumped, OK? No more relationship. No more "liking" your Facebook comments, sorry dude, you dumped me, remember? Block him. Narcs and other PDIs are like small children. They do not see a causal relationship between their behavior and the consequences of it. Most of us learn to respect this connection. Part of having a PD is that you somehow never learn that lesson. So the most compassionate thing to do is let them come face to face with the lesson they never learned. And then step back, turn away, and get on with your life. 98% of the time, they will crash into this lesson over and over until the day they die, because their condition is incurable. And if you are anywhere near them, they will crash you into the wall with them until you are battered beyond recognition. Just ask any of us about being battered beyond recognition, be it physical or psychological. But you've done the ONLY thing that will help them. It's like a diabetic who REFUSES to acknowledge their disease. I am an RN and have seen it with my own eyes. They end up in the ER in DKA (diabetic ketoacidosis, extremely life threatening) or overdosed on insulin, needing toes or legs amputated, needing to go on dialysis or going blind or suffering strokes because they just REFUSE to acknowledge their disease and take ownership of it. We calibrate their blood sugar, chop off the gangrenous limb, install a dialysis catheter and try to fix their retinas, and send them home when they are stable. But we can't fix why they won't take care of themselves in the first place. It's bad enough that some of these things happen with even the best self care :( But I think you understand I am making a comparison. I need you to understand that this man is SICK, and that the rules are different for him. Save yourself, honey. You can't fix him or give him enough chances to work through his issues. Christ, he doesn't even deserve it after how he's treated you. Your time, your love and your LIFE are too precious for this. It is not YOUR job to heal this man, and especially one that the doctors don't even know how to heal. It is pure grandiosity to even think you can :)
Jan 11 - 6PM (Reply to #2)
therose
therose's picture

It's good you are an RN

because you just described me, I have reefused to accept my type 1 diabetest my whole life, I have not taken enough shots, I have been dka over 5 times in my life where I had to go to the hospital but didn't continue to work on it to get better. I don't take my blood tests y tooyand my depression over my mom has only made me worse. In other words, you jsut described me, I made my appointment (an emergency checkup( because I can't see anymore. The right eye is blocked by alarge dark dot and the left one is blurred beyond belief. I am praying the surgeries we will schedule will help. I am hopeless and have hit rock bottom with this disase. I have neuropathy too. I don't wnt to lose my sight, my legs or my kindey function. I want help, after the eye surgery they will schedule for me. I am going to my main doc who I have been avoiding and will get a pump or something cuz I jsut don't take the shots. From there, I just hope to reverse years of damage. Had this since I was 14 and am 38 now. So, I am even more convinced I can't turn away from him if he gets to that rock bottom I am at and wants help, but like me, is willing to get it. I know where he is. It sux feeling this low aboutt yourself. I will not let him in to play games with me but if he is willing to do the work for himself first, to feel better and be happy, and not iserable, I could be good with that. Meanwhile, it's more about me now. So, I refuse to accept he is a miserable hopeless case cuz you jsut described me and said that is a hopless case diabetic. I have to believe it's not too late for me. M

"do you believe that dreams come true? hold on to your dreams." - Madonna

Jan 11 - 7PM (Reply to #3)
therose
therose's picture

and I'll tell you...

why I'm a hopelss diabetic and want to change. I did that cuz I was a teenager when I got it and it was horrible as well as my parents fighting and my abusive father, I just couldn't deal with it, the pain, physical and emotional,a nd I kept escaping. I escaped it every year and now it's effects of escape have caught up with me. I never trusted doctors, but go since the one I had then did some very bad things to me back then (he got in trouble for it later) but I have been frought with anxiety about docs ever since. I would rather actually die than see a doctor at times, and this upcoming surgeries on my eyes are the most terrifying thing I have ever done. I watched my uncle, my mom, and my aunt all die in the hospital from cancer, and I am going to be taking my will and a pic of my mom with me to the ssrugery I am that scared. But I am sick of what I have done to myself. I hate shots and blood tests, but I have no choice. I am saddled with this disease for the rest of my life and if I must always be in pain, so be it. I want to see again, I don't want the real world to feel like a dream, and only dreams to seem r fight eal. My ex isn't just an N, he's a person, perhaps he also feel he is sick of what is going on with him. I can only be involved if he comes and says he knows something is wrong with him, other than that, I have not breaken NC. As for deleting him from my mom's page, my feeling is he is holding on to that pic cuz I gave it to him for strength, and maybe like me, he needs some. I know, not the strong words you guys want to hear, but honestly, I am dealing with a lot of my own crap, so in the fight for my life, my empathy is going overtime. Forgive me all.

"do you believe that dreams come true? hold on to your dreams." - Madonna

Jan 11 - 9PM (Reply to #4)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

A co-worker of mine was a

A co-worker of mine was a type 1 diabetic (since age 2) and got on a pump. She was SO happy with it, she wondered why she never got on one before. You belong here as one of us whether or not you have the strong words we want to hear ((((hugs)))) You don't have to hate your ex, or consider him less than human. Many folks on this board, who are well into recovery openly admit they still feel love for their exNarcs. It is what it is. The point for YOU is to understand what he is. I'm going to say this with great respect for the compassionate, sweet and gentle soul that you are: It is not empathy for your Narc that inspires a willingness to help him. It is projection, of your own beautiful self. True empathy with a Narc? You'd see a monster honey. It would chill you. It would make you want to run screaming and block him from every avenue of getting to you or the ones you love. You just don't see it yet. That is no shame. We all get there in our own time :)
Jan 11 - 11PM (Reply to #5)
therose
therose's picture

thank you

for all those kind words. I just have hope for all people, outside of abuse rape and murder, but what he did to me while horrid, could be seen in many different ways. If I go with the bip possibility or even he can't handle stress, I could see why he would throw his hands up and be angry with everyone. During the same time he was fighting with me, I know his mom had said she and his brother were getting on his case that he wasn't doing enough stuff with his daughter, plus job was not going well, and he was really trying and getting frustrated, plus no money and he had said on the phone in the hospital but it's hard for me to remember because I was out of it, but I remember stuff about afraid he would lose the place and his car, and where would they sleep and he didn't want to lose her after fighting for custody for two years, it was a lot I knew about he was going through. Overstressed poeple can probably have an outburst, and I was stressing about my eyes and my dad and well, I guess what I am saying is I am at the phase where I see all sides of the coin. It's a dangerous time, but again, because of fear, I am not gonna have a problem on my end with NC and I will come here if I get any contact from his end, because I do need yours support and counsel. But tonight, yeah, I am feeling big strong feelings for him, for the life he has had to live and yes, if he is a normal human, I feel so bad and feel so bad for the both of us. So, my empathy is going towards what if he is just having a misserable life and coudln't cope? I also posted about my eye appt and that too just made me feel less like being mean, or angry, but I know it's an up and down battle. You guys help me see this so much! I want that pump! M

"do you believe that dreams come true? hold on to your dreams." - Madonna