I am so embarrassed, I just cried on a date - will I ever get better at this....?

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#1 Jan 6 - 8AM

Ava

I am so embarrassed, I just cried on a date - will I ever get better at this....?

I just had 3rd date with a man I've known for a while & been friends with for a while. Nothing intense & the first two were lovely, felt "normal" and lovely.
But this time we went out to dinner & he was stressed from work & I was feeling those vibes coming off him - just vibes that he was a little tense / stressed. And I asked casually if he was ok, anything bothering him & he said no, he didn't think so. But I kept picking up those vibes. And I silently started freaking out. That was a big warning sign with the passive-aggressive ex that something bad was coming; narc rage or drama was just around the corner. I know this man is different but I couldn't stop reacting inside to that old trigger. I shrank a little & went a little quiet. I tried not to but I just couldn't help it. A part of me was panicking a little inside. Panicking for all the old reasons, panicking that I was still reacting to old triggers, panicking that I wouldn't be able to stop myself.
We chatted for a while & then my date said "You seem quiet, are you ok?" And he had such concern in his eyes. And without warning I just burst into tears. Right there at the table.
I am so embarrassed. So completely embarrassed. And I'm so worried. I haven't seen the exN for over a year. And I've worked so hard. Will I ever get better at this or am i just broken?
I'm sorry.

#2 Jan 7 - 3PM

Scoop

Oh sweetie , i cryed when i

Oh sweetie , i cryed when i read this post . I cry at everything too and sometimes at nothing . I understand the vibes you get from somone new , i have been triggering all over the place with Dr guy , and although i know he is a good guy i know i am hyper sensertive . I have been NC for a year but they do say it takes 18 months to get over what we have been through and i am ready to believe that , maybe even more time . Surround youre self with good people , If this friend is a good man he will take on board you cryed .. god if i think back to the first date with Dr guy i got drunk , cryed my eyes out , told him he was "just the same as all the rest" then past out in my clothes ... good work for a first date i think lol ...give it time ... big love xx

#3 Jan 8 - 5AM (Reply to #19)

Ava

Ah Scoop

Ok I've now cried AND laughed reading your post!! :) You know i think i've read that 18 month figure somewhere too, it sounds somewhat familiar and I'm definitely ready to believe that & as you say, if not more. I don't know why I got stuck on the one year thing but I think some of it was also that I seemed more ok than I thought I would be over Christmas - i.e. perhaps i got too cocky thinking I was better than i was, if that makes sense? I think also I'm still just so new at reading vibes or really listening to them. And my sense are SO much in hyperdrive! Even that in itself is something that's hard to get used to I think; simply all that new input / receptiveness to the input maybe? Ah Scoop, that was a good first date :) I'm SO glad Dr guy has come into your life - he does sound like good people. Thank you again!! :) Big hugs, Ava xxxo

Ava

#4 Jan 7 - 8AM

helldweller

ava

All I can say is that I cry after anything good that happens. When I finish a run, when I finish a radio interview, giving a tour or a lecture, when I have a nice date or get together with friends, when I finish singing a Mass. I have almost gotten to the point where I don't want to even do anything that I know will be nice or I will feel proud of because I will end up cryng aNd feeling terrible when it's over. I also had a date last month and I know that my hyper-vigilance ruined it. I refused to ask him anything about himself, waiting to see if he would be interested in my life. I deliberately talked about my mom being sick to see if he would care. I deliberately wore crappy clothes and gym shoes even though I always, always wear dresses and heels--always. And when he called, I pulled a narc on him and didn't answer. I texted him back because I didn't want to talk to him, didn't want to have to. We're not broken, ava. We're injured. Think of muscles pulled and needing time to work right again. When I found out about the other woman, I was so upset storming over to his house I fell down a flight of stairs. My right knee still doesn't work right, and that was two months ago. It is getting better, though, and I am actually jogging now for a few minutes each morning. It reminds me every day, though, of what happened. A physical scar from a deep emotional struggle. Accept your emotional injury and delicacy as a gift--something that is forcing you to remember what you went through so you take the time to heal.

#5 Jan 8 - 5AM (Reply to #17)

Ava

Helldweller

I am so sorry to hear that you have that reaction when anything good happens. Its bought tears to my eyes & I so wish that someday soon you will be able to enjoy the good things without feeling terrible - you so deserve to. You have reassured me so much that its not a case of me being broken but rather just injured. And oh my, you worded that so beautifully & so perfectly, your words that the injury is a gift. That has really struck deep with me & feels so right. And if it makes any sense, it feels like relief to actually listen to that, to truly take it on board & accept it. I'm sorry to hear about your knee & I think how you see it as a reminder to remember that it takes time to heal is a wonderful way of looking at it. And I am SO glad that it is healing, getting better & you can now actually jog on it! Perhaps the progress your knee makes every day can serve as a sign to yourself that the emotional injuries will also. From reading your posts over the past weeks I think you've done so much you should be proud of and feel good about. You are so inspiring & I deeply wish that soon you'll be able to enjoy all those moments. Thank you so much for sharing & giving me a great new way of thinking about this. Ava xxxo

Ava

#6 Jan 7 - 7AM

Scotchy71

Ava

I talked to a guy on the phone just before Xmas and we seemed to be on the same page..however....the next day, he called my mobile phone..I didn't hear it, he called again...I didn't answer, something stopped me, I listened. Then he sent me a text...."Tried to call, have a great day". I sent him a message saying I was going to work. That night he called more than once at home, he said he'd be going out that night and wouldn't - he did. 7.30am next morning he sent me a text asking if I was ok...who does that????? Before I met narc, I would have thought this guy was just smitten with me..now I see he has boundary issues. When I told him I didn't appreciate the "wake up" text, he told me he "wasn't a psycho or crazy guy"...HELLO, RED FLAG.... and he didn't understand why I was annoyed. He knew it was over before it began and I felt proud to have seen and acknowledged this behaviour before I was caught up...my hours of reading and absorbing info re the signs was paying off. He contacted me xmas to say could we start again, email only..no strings....and he still made a mention of how he didn't understand why texting someone he barely knew at 7.30am was wrong but wanted to begin again. So again he was telling me he DIDN'T GET IT!!! I told him I got it and because of that, DO NOT CONTACT ME AGAIN!!! I agree with Brieses, there's something not right there and your body's reacting to it - listen this time, if it doesn't feel right - it's not xxx

#7 Jan 7 - 8PM (Reply to #14)

Ava

HIya Scotchy

Ok wow, that is freaky behaviour. And I am so impressed & inspired that you listened to you gut, and listened in the face of him telling you that there was no reason to. And then told him not to contact you again. I read your post & got that shiver down my neck. And I can see it so clearly in the scenario you described. WTF sends a text at 7:30 in the morning to someone they hardly know? WTF keeps ringing someone they hardly know & then if you don't answer, even though you've said you'r going to work, then sends a message saying are you ok? I can see it so clearly & I'm SO glad you told that guy to hit the road. Its a really great story for me to read too. I've had so many questions re. what actually are red flags v. what I may be over-reacting to & constant phone calling, redialling etc has been a big issue for me - one that i've been questioning. My exN used to do that ALL the time. To ridiculous levels. I'd go into a meeting at work that would last maybe an hour & come out to see 27 missed calls from him because he was having a "crisis" over something. He'd call me at any time of the day or night. He even stooped to calling my mother at 2am once because I was visiting with her for a week & hadn't answered my phone and he was "worried" - nevermind that it was 2am & I wasn't answering because I was ASLEEP. I knew it was super unhealthy [understatement perhaps?!] with him & we had many discussion about it - during which he'd cry, tell me all about his fears & panic re. abandonment, tell me he'd try so very hard to not do it & I'd just end up feeling sorry for him & believe his promises. Ha. But I think its a weak spot with me & I've had trouble convincing myself just how unhealthy that behaviour is. My sister was / is EXACTLY the same - she'd call & call & msg & call if she needed something & I think I just grew to associate it with someone upset & troubled & needing help [and that it was my job to help], so that often kicked in [that "Oh I should help this person"] before the thoughts of hang on, this is WRONG. And I've been struggling recently with a female friend who does it every now & again; will call & leave a message but then try me again an hour later. She is very gregarious & I've often just put it down to that [and because I do tend to be hermit like recently] but it has & does unnerve me. Hmmm. Reading your story has really helped me, helped boost that belief that such behaviour IS wrong & IS a huge red flag. And I am so inspired that you listened to your gut & stuck to your guns. Right, I'm going to try really hard now not to dismiss Gut. And to not second guess myself. You are so right - if it doesn't feel right, it isn't. I think that's going to be a mantra for a while. This really is one of the best lessons in all this for me I think. Thank you so much for sharing your experience on this. I'm SO glad you got rid of that guy [not a "psycho or crazy guy" my ass!] Thank you :) Ava xxxo

Ava

#8 Jan 8 - 3AM (Reply to #15)

Scotchy71

Hi Ava

I'm glad I was able to help in some way...remember, no matter how small or huge the feeling, it's in built inside you to let you know something's wrong and prevent you from falling into bad situations....it's never wrong. Never feel you have to help someone, there are so many people who are too nice and feel it's their job to pick up everyone else's pieces and it really isn't. It's ok to say no and I'm finally learning that. Your gut telling you there was something wrong on that date was right...if everything was alright, you wouldn't have cried I think....stay strong...x

#9 Jan 7 - 4PM (Reply to #11)

michele115 (not verified)

Good for you Scotchy!

Very happy your narcdar is in full working order...

#10 Jan 8 - 2AM (Reply to #12)

Scotchy71

michele

Actually the very first red flag was earlier than the phone calls, He sent me his phone number so I sent him mine at 10.30pm, immediately he called me, and he didn't ask if it was ok first. I will always trust my gut from now till the day I lie, it's never wrong and it's mother nature's way of saving us from evil...xx

#11 Jan 8 - 5AM (Reply to #13)

michele115 (not verified)

Scotchy

You're not lying about the GUT!!! I had premonitions in dreams BEFORE I hooked up with him officially. Did I heed the warnings? of course not... Woke up from those dreams with ANXIETY!!! Gut feelings throughout! Last time... If I even get a butterfly he's out! Hugs!

#12 Jan 6 - 4PM

Briseis

Ava . . . . listen to your

Ava . . . . listen to your gut. SOMETHING is wrong. SOMETHING. When you gut goes off like this, it's trying to tell you something important. You need to spend some quiet time with yourself and listen some more and try and understand what your gut is saying to you.

#13 Jan 7 - 6AM (Reply to #6)

Ava

Briseis - thank you x

You are bang on. This is something I keep forgetting [if that's the word] - I've spent so long not listening to my gut, not trusting it, dismissing it, telling myself I'm being over-sensitive. But I've learnt so much in the past months & my gut has been proved right a good number of times when I have actually listened to it - I NEED to keep remembering that. Your suggestion re. taking some quiet time with myself is very good advice & I've scheduled a morning of bonding with self [!] tomorrow. I think again that's something I've also neglected in the past few weeks with Christmas, having family staying in my house etc. I'm not sure yet what it is that I'm reacting to in this situation. I'm not sure if its something to do with this man or if its something simply internal that he is triggering but that doesn't apply to him - does that make sense? Me & myself will be having that chat though! Thank you again for pointing this out & reminding me this. You are spot on & I really, truly need to keep hold of this concept. Ava xxxo

Ava

#14 Jan 7 - 4PM (Reply to #7)

Briseis

Exactly, that's what I'm

Exactly, that's what I'm thinking. Not that there is something wrong with him, there is something wrong and your gut is trying to tell you. Trouble is, our guts don't speak the King's English (lol) or German or Italian or French. They speak "Gut", which is in the least, universal, but figuring out what is wrong . . . another story. I have a semi-theory, and I know I've read this (like pretty much everything else I write) somewhere over the years. We are born with this gut instinct, and have it our whole lives. But we don't always learn to *listen to it *recognize it's existence in the first place :P *learn to interpret it. Which for me has taken lots of practice and more practice to come. It's like all your gut can say is "Something is wrong, something is off" but WHAT is wrong or off?? I swear this subject should be deliberately and carefully taught to children by their parents and carried on to some degree in the schools. A lot of ladies in your shoes Ava are just too raw and vulnerable and even the nicest man will cause triggering and all that stuff. Your gut will go off like a volcano over this. Even if he himself is a genuinely good person, your gut recognizes that you are still too tender and raw to be rubbing up against someone else right now. So it interprets that as "something is wrong". Less likely, but most importantly, there COULD be something wrong with this guy, and by God you need to know it NOW. But since nothing is clear right now, a bit of time, and a bit of Me Time with yourself, some journaling and continuing to discuss this will shed some light on the situation. I promise you that you will know what your gut wants you to know. Your gut will give a big ole clunk when it occurs to you. The whole point of listening to your gut is to know what it's telling you, it wants you to know. Your gut is your built in best friend :)

#15 Jan 7 - 7PM (Reply to #8)

Ava

Briseis - I think I'm slowly starting to get that

Gut really IS in built best friend!! It's a lesson or truth that has/is taking a while to sink in & I think that's all part of the process of learning to trust yourself again. And I'm gradually realising / putting pieces of puzzle together, that that very concept - the lack of self-trust - is one HUGE way that Ns get to us [or certainly in my case] in the first place. Helps the deception & enables red flags to be questioned & dismissed. Reading your theory, that we are born with the gut instinct, really struck a note with me. And has made me remember a quote I read ages ago - I cannot remember where or whom but its something that has stuck with me; something along the lines that as children we are all born believing in magic but as we grow we get it educated right out of us. I always read that as more than believing in Santa or the tooth fairy; I always felt it also related to how we often lose our sense of simple joy, childlike pleasure & enjoyment in the basic things. Now I think perhaps it also relates to the natural instincts we all do have. We're not taught how to listen & interpret - and I agree WHOLE HEART that it should be taught to our children! But also in many ways I think we're perhaps actually discouraged. Not necessarily in any intentionally negative way, but we are often taught to be rational, level-headed etc in ways that I think may actually lead us to dismiss our guts as silly or "irrational thinking." I've done some thinking & writing about the experience now and while I still don't KNOW the exact reasons for my reaction I think you're right on both counts; my gut has interpreted the simple closeness with another person, another man / potential relationship as a big threat in itself. I'm still largely in isolation mode, still get heeby-geebies sometime just thinking of leaving house & going to grocery store....so having dinner with someone that has possible potential of intimacy - still very scary! And Gut is telling me that I'm still not ready, still not prepared enough, if that makes sense. Definitely realise I've been trying to push myself too much & too quickly. And the concern shown by this man certainly triggered fear - niceness for me [and I think possibly many others in this situation?] is a HUGE "threat" to my weakly erected boundaries - i.e. probably the one thing that would disarm me the swiftest. At the same time, I'm not going to dismiss the possibility that Gut picked up something from my date [am determined NOT to make that "Oh its just me, I'm just over-reacting" mistake AGAIN!!]. I've known him for a few years & haven't felt threatened or seen red flags BUT hey, I ignored the red flags from exN for years so who knows! I'm deciding to step back & make sure I have plenty of time & opportunity to examine this situation & the interactions with this man with my new Post Narc Glasses. With Gut fully on board. And also because I'm actually realising I really DON'T want to get involved with anyone in any capacity at the moment. And if this guy gets upset over that, then that's going to be an answer for me. You know I think this may be one of the greatest rewards for me of having a PD relationship - getting back in touch with self & Gut afterwards. Thank you so much for guiding, helping & supporting me on that journey! :) Ava xxxo

Ava

#16 Jan 7 - 11PM (Reply to #9)

Briseis

Now I think perhaps it also

Now I think perhaps it also relates to the natural instincts we all do have. We're not taught how to listen & interpret - and I agree WHOLE HEART that it should be taught to our children! But also in many ways I think we're perhaps actually discouraged. Not necessarily in any intentionally negative way, but we are often taught to be rational, level-headed etc in ways that I think may actually lead us to dismiss our guts as silly or "irrational thinking." I think this happens all the time!! Mostly unintentionally. If you have a PDI for a parent, it is pretty much guaranteed that you will be discouraged, if not punished and shamed by the PDI parent for listening to our own guts. When my children were small, I still had contact with my father (a raging Narc/sociopath/borderline whatever). My daughter was about three, and her first reaction to him was to stare at him like was was NUTZ. She would NOT jump and try to please him like a good little codependent. It enraged him. He didn't dare get too activated around me about it, but I can only imagine what it must have been like for my sister and I. On the bright side (lol) children are discouraged by just plain old socialization, to be polite, to feel guilt and shame for being rude, refusing to kiss gross old Uncle Elmer or sit on creeeeepy Grandpa Joe's lap. It's because most people are not cognizant of Gut IMO. Reading your use of Gut as a term of respect gave me the idea to name my Gut. She (it is female) should have a name, no? Esmerelda? No. Lady GaGa? I'll be working on this . . .

#17 Jan 6 - 3PM

onwithmylife

Ava

You wonderful woman, you are NOT broken ,but may not be ready fora date, instead concentrate more on yourself and if possible, keep a friendship with the man, if not, it may have to end. It has taken me 2 YEARS to finally feel comfortable to go out and even then with caution, you know my story of the dying NARC, they really do a number on us and if you are NOT ready to date, realize that and DO NOT rush yourself,you will know when you are ready, that I believe..

#18 Jan 7 - 6AM (Reply to #4)

Ava

onwithmylife :)

Oh reading the first sentence of your reply has just made me sob with relief. I know that probably sounds silly [!!] but thank you, thank you. I think you're right in that I'm not ready for dating. Thought I was and the first two went really well but this just freaked me out entirely. Pulling it back to friendship with this guy is good advice. As is your suggestion that if it can't be friendship then I should end it. And I need to tell myself that's ok to do that. And as you say, to concentrate more on myself again....and to be ok with that too. I have been rushing myself I think - I passed the 1 year anniversary recently & I think somewhere in my head I was saying "Ok, you've gone a year now take another step forward." I guess I just have to learn that I simply can't rush this. And you know what, its kind of a relief to think that. They really do do a number on us. And I do think your narc is still trying - all that negativity from him re. your new plans = just more manipulation, trying to make you doubt yourself & diminish your strength so he can still affect you. Thank you again for your lovely words :) Ava xxxo

Ava

#19 Jan 6 - 9AM

really

Remember all that you've

Remember all that you've gone through and how far you've come. Yes, you will get better at this. Eventually. I think you need to recognize right now, though, that you are just not ready. I have the same issue - crying over kindness. Sometimes, it's on TV, just seeing one person be kind to the other. Sometimes it's in person. There is one male friend of mine that I just can't be around right now because he IS so kind to me. I'm afraid of how I would end up feeling about him just because he's nice. I know he's not the right man for me, but I could think so for a while just because he's respectful and kind toward me. So sad. There is work to be done on strengthening yourself and learning how to deal with other people's feelings that you are picking up on. I do know completely what you are going through and experience the same thing myself. I've had to "shut down" sometimes just to handle it. It's new for me, but it's helping me make clearer decisions.

#20 Jan 7 - 6AM (Reply to #2)

Ava

really - thank you so much x

Thank you for reminding me that I have progressed, I have come somewhere. I think there are times when I just crash & burn and think I haven't progressed at all. And you are right - I'm not ready. And that's a hard thing to admit. I've had several times where I've just been so frustrated. Its been over a year now & sometimes I get mad at myself because I think I'm just not getting anywhere - does that make sense? Its an odd & sad thing isn't it, having that issue re. kindness from others. Reading what you've said, I think I feel similar - in that I'm afraid of how I would end up feeling in the face of such kindness; worried that I'd just let myself want someone else to "rescue" me & I'd just fall at their feet. Sigh. Thank you so much for sharing how you feel with me - I'm sorry to hear that how sad these things are for you & I truly appreciate you sharing it. It is all a giant learning curve & part of it is realising all the things that need work - and you've hit the nail on the head re. learning how to deal with other people's feelings that I pick up on. And its become more intense in a way because one thing that I've discovered during all the post-narc work is that my radar is super sharp, super sensitive - always on the lookout for those red flags! So I think I'm "picking up" a lot more input than I used to. Thank you again - you've truly helped me think much more clearly about this :) Ava xxxo

Ava

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