Enemies

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#1 Jul 3 - 9PM

betty2020

Enemies

Question:

How does the narcissist treat his former Sources of Narcissistic Supply? Does he regard them as enemies?

Answer:

One should be careful not to romanticize the narcissist. His remorse and good behavior are always linked to fears of losing his sources.

Narcissists have no enemies. They have only Sources of Narcissistic Supply. An enemy means attention means supply. One holds sway over one's enemy. If the narcissist has the power to provoke emotions in you, then you are still a Source of Supply to him, regardless of which emotions are provoked.

The narcissist seeks out his old Sources of Narcissistic Supply when he has absolutely no other NS Sources at his disposal. Narcissists frantically try to recycle their old and wasted sources in such a situation. But the narcissist would not do even that had he not felt that he could still successfully extract a modicum of NS from the old source (even to attack the narcissist is to recognize his existence and to attend to him!!!).

___________________________________________________________

so the

#2 Jul 5 - 11AM

Lisa E. Scott

Betty

"Narcissists have no enemies. They have only Sources of Narcissistic Supply. An enemy means attention means supply. One holds sway over one's enemy. If the narcissist has the power to provoke emotions in you, then you are still a Source of Supply to him, regardless of which emotions are provoked." So true! Thanks for sharing!

#3 Jul 5 - 12PM (Reply to #25)

Susan32

Emotions that Ns/Ps DON'T like

There's that article "You're Merely the Narcissist's 'Prey'" that has the powerful line "Her happiness he cannot bear." Ns/Ps capitalize on emotional provocation,but they seem to prefer some emotions over others. A friend of mine noted early on that my ex-Psychopath professor got a kick out of me being upset, confused, and embarrassed. So, would that mean that the polar opposites of those feelings- being serene, unconfused, and unashamed be garlic to such emotional vampires? My friends (who despised my ex-P with a passion) HATED it that I'd be cheerful around them, but glum around him. Telling an N/P "I'm hurt","I'm angry",or telling them about your unemployment, current misery... it's like throwing fuel on the fire with them. But wouldn't telling an N/P "I'm happy","I'm successful" (and there's the rub if they had NOTHING to do with your current state of happiness/success),be depriving the fire of its fuel? My ex-P's eyes would glaze over if I told him about things that made me happy. He'd snap "you need to be more serious" or something like that. He was absolutely bored when I told him about the wonders of Yellowstone (that was at least a dozen years ago) As some articles note, simple pleasures are impossible with Ns/Ps. My ex-N former boss was capable of enjoying some simple pleasures. I could tell him about going on vacation to Boston or Oregon, and he'd like it. With my ex-P professor, telling him about going to Oregon, Yellowstone, that BORED him. It seems like there are some emotions/supply that Ns/Ps DON'T want. I'd tell my ex-P about fun things I did with my friends,family vacations,summer jobs-and he looked/sounded clearly bored. Maybe there is such a thing as supply that even a Psychopath doesn't want. Such as his victim being HAPPY. My ex-P HATED HATED it when I was happy and cheerful. Those were emotions he couldn't stand seeing in me. It was supply that seemed to poison him.

#4 Jul 4 - 1AM

aceonelady

enemies....well

My ex N told me after D&D i should stay in Tulsa at his home with him as a friend for the time we had agreed i was going to stay....But i left a month earlier due to the crazy making situation,the gaslighting,mind games withdrawing contact ,afection respect and much more...(please read my story)The day i left he said he was going to contact me on Skype again to check how i was doing....And he did and asked me to call him back about a double charge on his credit card about chhanging my plane ticket....i resolved the issue,gave his money back ...when i called to tell him all that he told me i wasn't going to hear from him anymore ...he had no wishes for friendship or conversations with me...because i was an asshole....later he told me he never looked back at anyone from his past...i should move on,all of his exes did and he too...even his children's mother,she lives about 15 minutes from him he doesn't talk to her ,only about the children when necessary and hhe only sees his children twice a month,10 minute when he goes over there to bring money...and that woman didn't do anything to him,he had to leave home because something happenned with his 15 year old daughter...she went to the cops to make a complaint about hher father...is disgusting,he said his ex is an asshole like me....and now i am the enemy he says...

Aceonelady

#5 Jul 4 - 5AM (Reply to #22)

ewa

I do not really think that

I do not really think that what he says to you is truth. I would rather say he is pretending very good. I observed my narcissist and he is still in touch with all the girls who have been his source of supply for a longer time. He claimed that his ex gf (the one before me) is a crazy bitch /he said it to me/, but i know from other people that he was telling them that the relationship with this girl was one of the most important. Well his stories changes accordingly to whom he is telling it. I think that as long as your N doesnt need you he will not contact you. But once he needs you you can hear from him even in the couple of years.

#6 Jul 4 - 9AM (Reply to #23)

aceonelady

Ewa

Well i do not think he will contact me he told me he rather go hungry and die on the streets before he EVER would ask anything from me...of course after i talked with the mother of his children and heard about his dirty little secret,he got pretty scared....And one thing is true,she will NEVER let him back after what he did plus what i told her about him...She told me so...and the children are very happy he is gone...they are 14 ,16 and 18,so they know.....

Aceonelady

#7 Jul 3 - 9PM

Susan32

Exposure and injury

My ex-P NEVER contacts me. Perhaps it's because I exposed him, and caused him extensive narcissistic injuries. I also caught him in a big lie. I managed to embarrass him by telling his colleagues very calmly and coolly,"He didn't tell me he already had a girlfriend" (one of them had gone to graduate school with him) After all, as soon as I met the girlfriend, my ex-P and her were out the door... with him practically dashing down the stairs with her having to catch up... I've never seen anyone make a faster exit. You'd think there was a fire. In one of my final conversations, I told him that he flaunted his girlfriend and didn't tell me about her existence to humiliate me. I explained ALL his actions as ways to embarrass and hurt my feelings ON PURPOSE. He acted like a cornered animal. He even admitted to being a fake. So, instead of apologizing (even normals can have fallings-out for several years, then there are mutual apologies&reconciliation) he steers clear of me. After I exposed him, he seemed afraid of me. It was like "run, Forrest, run." His colleagues know that I'm happy, successful, and fulfilled where I am. My senior essay advisor (another professor, NOT my ex-P) congratulated me on my writing career. Sometimes simply being alive is the best revenge of all. Oh, and being happy as well. And what I mean here is being alive simply for living and being happy simply for being happy. Don't be happy simply to revel in the N's/P's misery. Just be happy for the sake of happiness. As the Dalai Lama says, "Smile and be compassionate. Compassion is my religion."

#8 Jul 3 - 10PM (Reply to #6)

betty2020

I think your right Susan. I

I think your right Susan. I believe the injury sustained had to much of an impact on him to look at me for supply again. I am the first person that i am aware of to call him out on his shit. And boy did I! I call mine the meer cat. He always reminded me of one. Even when i was with him. Standing there peering out in constant fear of the world. Now i know why. I just wish i could forget because i really want to see him fall. I want the karma and its eating me alive that it hasn't happened. If it did i probably wouldn't even know.

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

#9 Jul 3 - 10PM (Reply to #7)

Susan32

The Furies/The Eumenides

In ancient Greece, the Furies were spirits who tormented wrongdoers. They were also called the Eumenides (the Well-Wishers). Now I know why my congratulations on his engagement upset him soooo much. I'm also sure I haven't heard from my ex-P because his parents are living with him, are raising his kids... and keeping him on a shorter leash than Paris Hilton's chihuahua. He probably caused a lot of hurt when he went to college (where his father was a professor/researcher), and his parents probably had to pick up the pieces. What's weird was when I heard his father on NPR (it's tempting to break NC with "I heard your Daddy on the radio, he's so much smarter than you"). He said something revealing about his childhood... his lack of emotions terrified his parents, so they took him to the Worcester State Hospital. He also said that he drove his maternal grandmother crazy, that he had hurt a lot of people, and that he had let down lots of people. I've kept that secret about Worcester State for a good 14 years now.... at the time, I kept it in confidence. It was too weird to be a total fabrication, and it also fit, considering his bizarre reaction to an injury in freshman lab. It was a memory I buried. Till I came here. As for karma, don't forget that great Motown song "Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide." The Truth will out. It keeps its own office hours.

#10 Jul 5 - 9PM (Reply to #8)

hitandrun

The Furies/The Eumenides

Susan32...I have not thought of these in such a long time. Hoping the Furies are doing their job on my ex-whatever RIGHT NOW!!!!! And congrats on revealing his secret. Love the Motown reference,too : )

#11 Jul 5 - 9PM (Reply to #9)

Susan32

Telling The Secret...

I like the fact that the Furies are also the Well-Wishers. I've been reading A LOT of Sam Vaknin (or Sam Vakin) lately. He perfectly describes the relationship between the narcissist and his proteges. My ex-Psychopath saw me as his student,I was his student. He was a self-anointed Wittgenstein expert, yet he refused to show me his genius explanations of the great philosopher. I ended up having to explore Wittgenstein's works on my own. He left me without a compass or a map.... and he claimed I didn't take him seriously. Not too long ago, I was talking to a friend of mine in Colorado. For an enigmatic reason, I said "sometimes simply being happy and wishing happiness on others is the best revenge." And that was BEFORE I found this site showing how much Narcs/Psychs despise happiness(!!!) Seems like my happiness keeps my ex-P away like garlic wards off vampires. My therapist validated me, saying, "You're happy. You've been happy the past decade. Isn't that the best revenge?" I look at my writing, the beautiful place I live, listening to music I enjoy.... looks like I'm already riding the karma bus...

#12 Jul 5 - 10PM (Reply to #10)

hitandrun

The Well-wishers

Susan32...I kind of ignored that part. But what you said really struck me. I hope I do not get crucified for saying this, but I have been practicing wishing my ex-whatever well in my head. Not consistently yet, but sticking my toe in the water as far as this method is concerned. It is the exact opposite of what they would want. It's not really forgiving their B.S., but it changes the energy FOR YOU. They cannot suck you dry and be hooked into you if you are just not reacting to the images in your mind and just saying "Oh, you are here again. I wish you well,good bye." Or something to that effect. Is it really that easy? Hell no! But it does change the energy.It might even stir up the energy and it get's worse for awhile. At this point, I find it is worth the experiment. Thank you for bringing this up...I will look into my old studies because I believe there is a true gem in this mythology as it relates to our healing.

#13 Jul 6 - 5PM (Reply to #11)

Susan32

Is happiness the sort of supply Ns/Ps DON'T want???

My ex-P's backwards reactions were a red flag from the beginning. In situations that called for gratitude and kindness, he engaged in crazy-making, paranoia, and anger. When his lecture about Wittgenstein, Augustine and the "fantasy of ascent" (how fitting, Ns/Ps DO live in their own fantasy worlds) got publicity from me, he ended up printing up a bunch of copies thanks to his newfound popularity. While he was printing it, he looked at me with the Evil Eye,and complained about having to make 14 copies. He simply glared. When a fellow professor told him (in front of me) that I was "singing his praises",he went into paranoid rage as soon as she left, telling me I wasn't supposed to talk about him to anyone else. I wasn't supposed to compliment or insult him behind his back. Very bizarre argument. No wonder that when I told him I wanted closure by wishing him well with his fiancee, he flew into a rage claiming violation. Whenever I told him I wanted him to be happy, he said, "You're not a happy person." He hated it when I ended conversations with "have a nice night/day." They were supposed to end with an emotionless "bye." In a sense, is telling an N/P consciously/subconsciously that you want them to be happy, the ultimate form of punishment? Do they stay away if they realize you're happy? If you tell them you want them to be happy, do they feel it as some sort of torture? As Buddhist philosopher Mathieu Ricard says "Happiness is an inside job."

#14 Jul 6 - 6PM (Reply to #12)

betty2020

In my case or with my N, it

In my case or with my N, it really didnt matter what i told him. When he devalued me i became the ghost that never was. I speak to deaf ears. He can not hear me. not one word. It is very strange but i believe they have something inside of them that can disconnect to the point of not seeing that you ever existed. I dont know how they achieve this but mine has done it. In my case he was on to other supply therefore no need for coming around. If i told my exN i wanted him to be happy i dont think he would think of it as torture nor would he look at it as a sign of peace. He would walk away, forget what i said with in seconds as i am nothing to him, and go about life. For him to have a reaction he would have to care enough to think about it. Mine just didnt care period. I wish i could have figured out what would get the rise from him but i realized it was nothing.

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

#15 Jul 6 - 7PM (Reply to #20)

almostlydia

I've always been amazed by

I've always been amazed by this as well. I have seen mine beebopping along like he was the happiest camper in the world and immediately turn like he had seen a ghost when he spotted me. While i was walking around with my heart ripped out trying to remind myself to try to smile - he was grinning ear to ear like life was grand. It was as tho he completely forgot about me until he saw me again. Likewise, I have seen him go completely dead, with the cold dark empty shark eyes when caught red handed with the OW as if it was too much to compute so he just shut down completely, again as if he forgot who I was or what I was suppose to be to him. But always by early the next morning he had it all worked out in typical fashion. Calling the OW and talking about having to lay low for a while, while trying to convince me it was all just an innocent blah blah blah. I know he has an incredible amount of control over his mental status but THIS was beyond belief. As hard as it is for me to imagine, I guess this was the absolute proof that it truly was just an act all along. Isn't that the essence of narcissism we are struggling so hard to believe?

almostlydia

#16 Jul 6 - 6PM (Reply to #19)

Susan32

I guess I pressed delete first...

If my ex-P ignores me, I can't totally blame him. And in an odd way... I don't miss him. In the last 5 months of our "relationship"-and after having met the OW--I kept to MC (Minimal Contact) I'd see him on campus, be polite, leave it that (except for the few times I called him out,and told him he owed me an apology/gratitude, told him he was a lying arrogant bully) After that, I went NC. I sent thank-you's to ALL of my former professors, except him (this was the December after graduation). Then I sent some lovely cards of the Wine Country to ALL of my former professors, except him. One of my former professors congratulated me on my achievements in writing. He was my senior essay advisor, and it was nice to hear from him. My ex-P is so disconnected from his students that I doubt he cares whether they succeed or fail. Well, in my case, he DID try to professionally sabotage me, so I NEVER used him as a reference again... but he got the reference before NC. One of his former disciples changed his name, lives in Oregon, and is into the music business (and NOT philosophy) Another one of his female followers, one he was closer to than me... died early last year. Yeah, whenever I told my ex-P I wanted him to be happy, it sparked spectacular temper tantrums. He DID care enough to think about it. I didn't get it.

#17 Jul 6 - 6PM (Reply to #13)

hitandrun

betty2020---ghost

I, too am a ghost to him. Well, I am not even a ghost...I NEVER existed. If you figure out how they are able to delete former loves from ever "BEING" let me know. It beats the hell out of me.

#18 Jul 6 - 6PM (Reply to #14)

betty2020

I dont believe i ever

I dont believe i ever existed either. I think they need to do a study on this. This is the most bizarre thing i have ever seen. What kind of mental illness would a person have to experience this kind of amnesia. Are they suffering from PTSD from their Narc injury? Do you loose your memory with PTSD. I sure in the hell didnt. Why can he get so lucky to get amnesia? If possible i would like to know how to inflict this upon myself. Life would be so much easier.

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

#19 Jul 6 - 6PM (Reply to #15)

hitandrun

Me too!!!!!

Betty2020...if losing the memory of "him" is part of PTSD, please please PLEASE let me get that symptom. It IS easier to live like nothing ever happened in the first place. Definitely bizarre. Seems like they always win if we look at appearances. Don't know if they truly suffer. Sure doesn't look like it to me!

#20 Jul 6 - 8PM (Reply to #16)

Susan32

Do they really forget? Or is it all pretend?

Maybe it's more about repressed memories. I had TONS of repressed memories before I talked to a therapist (he defined it as a "power play" when describing my "relationship" with my ex-P,so not all of them fall for the pity parties of Narcs/Psychs) There were things I WANTED to forget. When a classmate of mine (who I NEARLY became friends with, but the ex-P nipped it in the bud, and he was closer to her than me) was "erased" last year, it was shocking. She was a professor, a colleague with my ex-P for the past decade. The obituary wasn't clear about the cause of death, it said she was a "former" professor--and it was too bizarre. Her death was a major trigger. It brought back all those painful memories of freshman year. I sent mass emails to several of my former professors (including ex-P) several years ago of my newspaper articles. Didn't hear back from the ex-P. Didn't care. All the messages said "I'm doing great. Hope you all are doing well. God bless." Pretty innocuous. Nothing romantic, needy, worshipful, or "I'm so sad without you/I miss you so much." It's odd. NOT hearing from him doesn't break my heart. A decade ago, when I'd call, leave phone messages, and he'd NEVER call back, I'd be confused and hurt. But that... I didn't care.

#21 Jul 6 - 9PM (Reply to #17)

betty2020

well if anyone is entitled

well if anyone is entitled to repressed memories it would be us. I would love for that to happen. They may pretend but the display they put on is so good i don't even think a Master Narc could pull it off. I dont know. I really am thinking that this is a part of the illness. The ability to achieve an amnesia like state. Erasure of people, although i am unsure how its attained. This would be a great antidote for us if we could unlock the secret. Maybe there is more to this than we know. Hummmm just a thought....

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

#22 Jul 6 - 9PM (Reply to #18)

Susan32

"I'm still standing"

It seems like the only sort of contact that triggers responses from Narcs/Psychs are the emotional type-be they anguished, angry, romantic, worshipful, or even stalker-ish. An "I still love you, no matter what" would PROBABLY end that "erasure" because they'd go into the Pavlovian drool state of "yay, supply, she's still in love with me." My ex-P, after all the anguish he caused me, said, "I want you to forget about me... but I want you to remember how I taught you how to relate to other people." He expected me to ERASE him. But after all that??? And if he didn't want me to remember him, why did he sabotage me professionally? I lost a teaching job because of him. But I did REMEMBER not to use him as a reference again. Ever. I assume my ex-P must've told crazy stories about me to his father... and his father found out otherwise. Let's not forget that dear ol' Dad committed him to a psych ward for being a psychopath (Worcester State Hospital was the first state-funded mental hospital in the country, Freud visited it in 1909) Poor Dad. He must've wondered why he was punished with such a son. My former professors know I'm happy where I am, happily writing... that's what it should be. I save the angst for elsewhere (like here) (For inspiration, listen to Elton John's "I'm still standing",great song)

#23 Jul 3 - 9PM

betty2020

i was asking myself this

i was asking myself this question and thinking about the Ns former relationships. Everyone he was in a long term relationship with he still has contact with. He still trys to control every aspect of their lives. It is almost as if he still thinks he is with them. Except me. I dont know if this is because of the exposure and injury i subjected him to in the end or if my time will be coming when things die down or his current supply is gone. I feel on edge. Like i dont know if this is really over or if something is going to happen. He is very drama centered. He loves the attention either positive or negative. I wish i had a crystal ball because i really would love to know if he would ever attempt contact with me again. I role play the scenarios in my mind of how i would handle it if he did. I can tell you it really scares me at how sadistic my thoughts have become since this has happened. I am not the same loving person i once was. That person is dead now and its really disturbing.

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

#24 Jul 5 - 9PM (Reply to #4)

hitandrun

Mine will never contact me

Because I know the truth and he knows I know the truth. I made sure he knew. Sounds like you are in the same boat. We know...we get erased or deleted. We do not exist. We are not enemies...we are non-existent. Therefore, we are no longer supply. Mine seems to have contact with his exes as well.They didn't catch on and think he's such a great guy(gambling addict, momma's boy, no license, live at home drunk.) Hell, I have contact with my exes...just not the two that were pathologicals. Because I called them on their sh*t. I have not been to check your post about the billboard and the personal ad. I told my Mom about it and we both laughed our asses off...she's been involved with a narc before, too. Should get her on this board...she's have some interesting tales and good advice. Hang tough betty2020...you and I are at the same time period of not being with these freaks. I don't care how much we know about how bad they are...it still hurts to be erased by someone you thought loved you. Even if it wasn't real..it still hurts because we can feel. Damn, I'm thinking about making a voodoo doll again. God give me strength! xoxoxo

#25 Jul 4 - 12AM (Reply to #2)

MsVulcan500

Betty2020

Yours sounds just like mine. He is still in touch with all exes. He has done a grand job of recycling, but his "green" program is stopping here. He has not contacted me at all except for a really general email at Thanksgiving and one after I shipped his DVD player back to him in January. I think the reason I haven't heard from him is his new victim is keeping him happy for now. I think it just hasn't been long enough for him to start reaching out to the past . . . And like you I have it all worked out in my head what I will say to him if I see him somewhere. I still will not respond to an email or text. But I want to make it really clear that I do not like him, I do not hate him, but that he really means absolutely NOTHING to me. If he came up to me and tried to talk to me, I'm just going to tell him that I am not interested, and the past is the past and it should stay there. That way there are no emotions for him to play off of. No more supply here, this well is all dried up for him.

#26 Jul 4 - 12AM (Reply to #3)

Susan32

Accountability

I agree with what you said, but my one problem is "the past is the past and it should stay there." Ns/Ps ENJOY selective memory. After all the emotional abuse I received, my ex-Psychopath kept saying, "Drop the subject" and "move on" as EXCUSES for not apologizing. He wanted the past to be the past so he could keep me as backup supply,and for brainwashing. The ONLY way for the past to become the past is for reparations to made, apologies and explanations. Abusers want the abuse to be forgotten. Once the abuse is forgotten, they can resume it or hope for new supply. Objects can forget things;people don't. I would only accept the past being the past if there were GENUINE remorse and apology. As I told my ex-P in a postcard 7 years ago, I don't expect a genuine, honest apology from him. It would be asking waaay too much. It would be like expecting an 8 month old baby to apologize for keeping his parents up all night with his shrieking. An infant can't, due to the lack of maturity. A psychopath can't apologize honestly, due to the pathological immaturity. I'd tell my ex-P that he'd get neither admiration nor hatred from me... because the past wrongs will not be forgotten. And the lack of apologies means- no forgiveness. I'm happy without him. That alone suffices.

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