Is this empathy?

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#1 Apr 10 - 7AM
safyre99
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Is this empathy?

I guess I'm reverting back a little to the taking the blame for what went wrong in my relationship with my exN and needing validation again that he is indeed a narcissist. (I really wish I could get my mind to shut off sometimes... lol! I do too much thinking and analyzing) I know that no empathy is high on the list of narcissistic traits, and although I do feel he really didn't show much empathy at all (especially to me) I feel he was somewhat caring to some others sometimes and I was wondering if this signifies he's actually not a Narc.

He does regularly give blood and that seems to be very important to him.

At one point during our relationship a family friend was in the hospital and he visited her several times in the hospital and then visited when she was at home.

When a family friend was having marital problems he went over their house to offer support and be there for them.

But, one time when I told him that a friend's mother passed away he could have cared less. And, one day when I was sick and told him I didn't feel good, he didn't care at all and didn't ask if I needed anything or ask how I was feeling. There's so many instances where he wasn't empathetic, especially towards me, so it makes me feel that maybe he just didn't care about ME enough. Maybe he cared more about these other people. But, then I think that maybe he just did what he thought he was supposed to do for them or a way for people to think highly of him.

I know that not every Narc is the same and there are different levels or severity of it, but I guess I still have doubts sometimes and feel that maybe he just didn't love me or how I was just wasn't good enough for him, and I still need that validation that it's not me, it's him!

Apr 10 - 10PM
ifinallygotit
ifinallygotit's picture

empathy

My Ex N had empathy and caring for family members and guy friends, just not for me his GF. This goes back to the theory that it starts in early childhood from either abuse or over enmeshed doting mothers - not allowing them to develop as an independent person with their own personality - then they act out the unconscious hate for women on us... He was awful to the mothers of his children, but very kind to his children...though irresponsible.
Apr 10 - 8PM
Steph
Steph's picture

I remember second guessing

I remember second guessing myself and thinking well he did this or that so he MUST have some empathy, but then if he did this then why would he have been mean in this situation or that situation, and maybe it was just with me and on and on my mind would go! It's part of the cognitive dissonance: He is Good. He is Bad. Which is it? Your mind can't figure a solution to the two opposing thoughts....so the obsessive thoughts continue as you try to resolve it in your head. It sucks! I think what helped me is knowing a person can FAKE being "nice" to serve a purpose.....but why would someone FAKE being "mean", does that make sense? The niceness is obviously to gain attention.....but being mean? What kind of a genuinly empathatic person would just be cruel and abusive? Was he like this JUST with you cuz you weren't GOOD enough? HELL NO. I'm sure you have met people that maybe you don't "click" with or whatever......are you mean to them just because you don't really "like" them? Probably not. Because YOU have EMPATHY. List the things that he did that were abusive. Read them every single time you second guess yourself. Post them here if it helps. It is NOT you. Honestly. IT IS NOT YOU. xoxo
Apr 10 - 2PM
Journey
Journey's picture

Our Narcs are so similar!

I completely understand your second guessing him. I did it for a long, long time. I carried doubt and self blame a long, long time. From what you've written at other times, he sounds just like my narc. Appearing to care, yet not following through. Withholding affection, sex and caring, yet giving just enough to make it feel like you were the one too demanding, or expecting too much. When I disappeared recently from the board it was partially because I did not want to doubt he was a narc anymore - for my own sake. Many of the narcs I read about here are so much worse than mine was - that in itself often lead me to doubt he really was one. I had to get tough with myself and say YES, he IS A NARC - stop looking for 'evidence' here or anywhere else (I'd done enough reading to know it was true). This came after seeing him for a visit in which I let him do most of the talking and listened to his reasoning and ideas. What I heard really was not the way a normal person would speak about other people, situations, or what he wanted in life - when I asked him what he wanted, all he could say is "I know what I don't want". He doesn't want ANYONE to depend on him for anything. What he does want is complete freedom to do whatever he feels, whenever he feels it and admits to not being able to maintain a relationship because he gets bored. He said he thinks everyone who does this is insane because how could they possibly be happy. HELLO NARC! When I suggested it was perhaps because they valued the people they were with enough to want to work through difficulties in order to grow more intimate - I might as well have been talking Klingon. He doesn't get it. I finally decided to just believe it, stop questioning and that is why I needed to take time away, to STOP having doubts and remove those thoughts from my mind. During those few weeks, anytime I thought about him at all, I got tough with myself and refused to doubt a minute longer. So what if he 'seems' like a good guy. He emotionally abused me and used me for his own agenda and when that didn't seem so enticing anymore he discarded me like used toilet paper. Yes, my narc can be very generous, fun, nice to strangers, easy to get along with, talk like he understands spirituality - he is so good a philosophizing life in a way that makes sense and even for the most part is how I see life too. The big difference? He does not extend himself beyond what he has to do in order to maintain an appearance of being a good person and often resents it when he does (secretly of course). Bottom line, it really doesn't matter to me anymore if he is a narc or not - he is not someone who will ever make a good loving partner to ANYONE. There was nothing I could have done to change that simple fact. He told me once that if he couldn't make it work with me, he wouldn't be able to ever make it work with another. Truer words were never spoken by him because we had it all - complete compatibility, we worked well together - in the business we started, also in a creative project we shared. When we lived together we were together 24/7 pretty much and really didn't fight. We laughed a lot and enjoyed so very much in common - except being able to love and develop intimacy. He just can't do it = narc. Otherwise we would have stayed together and he would not have run off to be with new supply and have D&D'd me the way he did. Case closed.

Journey on...

Apr 10 - 10AM
TLSM
TLSM's picture

safeyre99

I totally get where you are at right now!!! Being on this board for over 3 weeks now, I am starting to see things clearer. The donating of the blood...Trust me...That proves nothing except a man who wants everyone to "think" he cares. I bet he makes sure to slip it into conversation that he donates blood. My Ex N gave $500 dollars anonymously to a young girl who we both saw back into another car. She was hysterical and scared to death her father would be so so angry when he showed up. So Ex N gave $500 to someone nearby to give to the girl for repairs, or whatever. He told me never to tell anyone...But then he ended up telling everyone he did it. He didn't give a crap about her. There was an angle to it for him - that would make him look good. I know this with every ounce of my being. And this is BEFORE I knew about Narcissism and/or PD. Again, visiting someone in the hospital doesn't show empathy. If he didn't go, he would have been talked ill of. Same with helping out with marital problems. Part of his act. He has to keep it up or he will be found out. You called it when you said "I think that maybe he just did what he thought he was supposed to do for them or a way for people to think highly of him." You instincts are correct. The fact he didn't care someone passed away or didn't help you when you were sick or showed much empathy towards you is the RED FLAG. Trust me. You are TOO GOOD for him. Don't ever feel you aren't good enough. He is the one who is NOT good enough and never will be and deep down inside, HE KNOWS IT!!! Besides the power trip, I suspect part of the reason they emotionally abuse us, is to punish us for being good. And they try and corrupt us and program us into being shits like them - I started noticing I was becoming judgemental and critical of people like he was. I started not trusting people like he couldn't. It was as if I was trying to impress him. SICK. Don't beat yourself up. I know it's easy to do. You are at the right place! Remember there is a reason you found your way here to this website and board...I have to keep reminding myself that when I have doubts about him being sick.
Apr 10 - 7AM
miloka
miloka's picture

I have been feeling that way

I have been feeling that way too. Mine never cared or called when I was in the hospital for a heart condition. However he was there everyday when he wanted something. I was getting tickets to a sold out concert. I had a virus for over a month and he would offer to get me soup, ask how I was feeling. I knew there was an agenda. He already had the OW and had told her he had tickets and led me on to get them. Sad I went to tell him I had the tickets and she was in his shower. Yup they can be nice when they want something. I sold my tickets. Now he is torturing me saying I owe him money. For the tickets he never got.
Apr 10 - 8AM (Reply to #8)
safyre99
safyre99's picture

Isn't it frustrating

Isn't it frustrating miloka that we give of ourselves and we care so much about these Ns and then they never can "step up to the plate" and be there for us. Even for little things, let alone the big things. That's horrible that yours didn't even call when you were in the hospital. That's unforgivable! And what a jerk that when he wanted the tickets he was nice and caring. They always have an agenda and are nice when it suits them. Uggghhhh!
Apr 10 - 7AM
really
really's picture

It's hard to stop thinking,

It's hard to stop thinking, isn't it?! I had the same problem and even now, 18mos later, I still fall into the same trap. I wish there were better answers, but there aren't. I think the thing you need to ask yourself about these seemingly "nice" behaviors is whether they are sincere or whether he's going them to look good and get credit for them. They can be very deceptive and I think you know the answers. A normal person would do them because they are the "right thing to do" and they would be heartfelt An N does them to make himself look good, to talk about them, and to garner attention in the act itself or in talking about it and probably both. I had the same questions. He went and visited his old neighbor in the nursing home. This is the same old man who he would fight with daily about the condition of his yard and location of garbage cans. I have so many examples like that! It took me a long time to comprehend that these are not sincere reactions. It's not something "normal" people like us can really fully understand, but it is something that we have to accept if we are to recover. Look back thru the things he's done and see if you can't find the thread of attention-getting behavior entwined in his actions. I think you will. hugs, really
Apr 10 - 8AM (Reply to #6)
safyre99
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You're right

You're right, really... it is so hard to stop thinking.. You make a good point about figuring out if they're doing the behavior to get credit or make themselves look good. I'm sure these Ns don't do anything just out of the goodness of their heart (if they even have a heart!)... there's always a reason or motivation behind what they do, or what they can get out of it. And, my exN has so many other narcissistic characteristics and traits that I guess even if he showed a few glimpses of being a nice guy that doesn't mean he's not a narc, especially since some of these nice things he's done are probably for his own benefit more than anything. Thanks!
Apr 10 - 7AM
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture

I got

the validation that it was not me from his first wife, who I talked with at great length and am still good friends with her and her second husband. You may want to consider some therapy, that is always good for getting over the hump, so to speak,a trained professional, may give you the validity you need . It is easy to over analyze but doing so can drive you crazy and keep you stuck, it did for me for some time, until I broke out, but it has taken me 2 more years to get over the man and I was with mine for 15 off and on years. good luck,you sound strong!
Apr 10 - 8AM (Reply to #2)
safyre99
safyre99's picture

Thanks

Thanks onwithmylife... I'm glad that you said I sound strong. I'm trying! :) I've been broken up with my exN for almost 7 months and I do feel stronger now but I still have those days where I get emotional and do a lot of thinking and still wonder if he's actually a narc. I know that since he treated me so poorly and really made me feel bad about myself that I keep needing that validation that he would treat any girlfriend like that, it wasn't just me... I had started another forum topic a few weeks back about it not being personal... how they act is because of how they are, it's not personal, but I still have times where I feel that it's hard to not take it personally, even though in my head I know that they're the one with the problem and it's the disorder.
Apr 10 - 8PM (Reply to #4)
Journey
Journey's picture

I still struggle with it not

I still struggle with it not being personal too - it is extremely hard not to. Since my exN was with me longer than he usually is with anyone (2 yrs), if nothing else, that tells me I was at least valued more by him than many of his other 'conquests'. Not much consolation there, but a little.

Journey on...

Apr 10 - 11AM (Reply to #3)
Swan
Swan's picture

empathy

From what I have experienced with my narc, it is that he only does things that give the appearance of being empathetic and caring if he gets recognition for it. So, when I was sick, miscarrying, upset, whatever and no one was around...he ignored me. When he got reconition for it-like asking to leave work early because his wife was sick and he wanted to take care of me-then he did it. Although those people at work should know that when he came home to "take care of his sick wife" he actually did things like working in the yard, doing his stupid hobby thing, or taking a nap. Me-I was sick, alone and had to fend for myself even when he was right there.