Don't even know what to title this..........

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#1 Dec 5 - 7AM

Sparrow

Don't even know what to title this..........

I had the strangest conversation last night with a girlfriend of mine and thought I would share it here. I don't quite know how to feel about it, my head is swimming a bit, confusion, shock, dismay.........not sure what to think. Thought I would share and see what the general concensus is here on the forum.

I have struggled for some time as some of you know, with one of my "best" friends since my husband left me for the OW. She seemed absent, during most of my pain and suffering, and I could not understand why. I chalked it up to some can handle your emotional needs, others can't. But last night, I believe I have not necessarily closure on it, but at least an answer and am not quite sure what to make of it.

She refused repeatedly to come to my home, was abnormally upset when I met narc #2, when everyone else was excited about the prospect of a first date, she was out of her mind and acted child-like, no one could make sense of her behavior. She wouldn't come to keep me company, she refused to help me pack up the house, I even asked if she would just come, sit with me, drink a glass of wine, while I packed up the kitchen, because I just could not bear to be alone for another night while doing that terrible chore of packing up the life that I once knew, she refused. She later admitted that she could not come to the house, it was full of too many memories, and was too painful for her. I thought that strange, but than again, she was a bit strange.

Anyway, we had words quite some time ago, after she refused to join me for dinner on my first wedding anniversary alone. I finally poured out all of my feelings to her about how she had been behaving. She stopped speaking to me for a very long time. We just started mending our fences, persay, and in a conversation last night about Mike and the divorce and how I had discovered so much and come so far. I told her that the divorce was absolutely the most heart-wrenching experiences of my life and for him to attempt to come back was a set-back, but not for long. Her response..........

"Susan, you weren't the only one that was divorced" Which led me to think the direction she was going was to explain that many people get divorced. That wasn't the case. She exclaimed that she also suffered a divorce. Her words, "Mike divorced me too, you weren't the only one that he left and divorced, this was just as hard for me as it was for you" and than asked if I understood that? That she too had suffered. She too was in a fog for a year. And she too was left for another woman. That I need to understand that she was dealing with the SAME pain.......really?????????

What do I even say to a comment like that? I was floored to say the least. I could not wrap my head around any of what she was saying. No, they did not have an affair. I know that as well as Iknow my own name, so I don't want you to think that is a possibility. But I believe, some how, that she was in love with my husband and viewed him as her husband as well in some ways. She even said at one point that he was like her husband also.

I find this to be disturbing on so many different levels. I was speechless, and it is making me sick to my stomach just thinking about it. Don't know what to think, didn't see this coming at all. I just summed her up as not having the coping skills needed to help me through this, to find out that she couldn't help me, because she herself was going through the "same" thing when he left.

Any thoughts?

#2 Dec 6 - 1PM

Sparrow

Alicat, what a sweet thing to

Alicat, what a sweet thing to say. Thank you so very much. :) This is just another hurdle in the journey. I will be fine, I am sure of it! It's all a learning process and a very enlightning one at that!

#3 Dec 6 - 1PM

alicat

Sparrow when I read this my

Sparrow when I read this my heart dropped! You have been such an inspiration to me, and it hurt my heart to hear what you are now going through. You are such a strong beautiful woman that I know you will come through this! You deserve the absolute best!

#4 Dec 5 - 2PM

Sparrow

Everyone, I appreciate your

Everyone, I appreciate your input, it has been very helpful to me. I know what I need to do with this information and I know how I need to handle it. NC with her as well......period. I have come way to far in my journey to healing to make her relevant in any way. I have discovered betrayal from many people in my life over the past year and probably will continue to do so. I am removing all the toxic people in my life, her included. This is just a set-back, I can assure you. Because no one, and I mean no one will keep me from my recovery. A narc, is a narc, is a narc..........and its all about cleaning house. I will be ok, I don't know why I continue to be suprised, I shouldn't be. I know what to look for in the disordered and she is no different than the rest of them. I think everyone made good and valid points. The one that hit home the most actually was Anari's......."my friend wasn't so upset about Mike leaving me, she was upset about him leaving me for someone other than her" Well put, and understood. That is exactly what happened and now, I can put this to bed too. I could continue to share more incidents that took place over the years that have been crashing down on me today like huge waves, but it doesn't matter, one way or the other, how many stories I share about this situation. It is what it is. Thank you again everyone. You have been extremely helpful in guiding me to face my reality.

#5 Dec 6 - 6AM (Reply to #36)

Winter

Sparrow

I just read your post and I second everyone opinion about this situation. I am so sorry you have to go thourgh it! You are so right that no one has right to be an obstacle on your journey to healing. Not only she might have had an affair (emotional or not), but she dares to share her pain with you! Unbelieveable! It could be that she was in love with your husband and this is not the most awful. It can be that she experience a grief. And it is ok. Everuthing can happen in life. The most awful here, at least for me, is that she shared her "feelings" with you. There is no excuse for that! She could go to a therapist, share it with someone else. Anyone, but you! She has no empathy (what is the name again for this disorder?) Oh, Sparrow, dear, I would remove her from my life. Love Winter

#6 Dec 6 - 7AM (Reply to #37)

Sparrow

UK and Winter

Thank you for your posts this morning. I have nipped this in the bud as well yesterday. Our journey is a peculiar one. We concentrate so much on the narcs that brought us here and sometimes find ourselves dealing with a lot more than them. We discover all the "toxic" people in our lives through this experience. It is heart-wrenching at times, for sure. But than again, is it necessary. Like I said..............cleaning house. Thanks for reaching our today, you guys are great! :)

#7 Dec 6 - 5AM (Reply to #35)

uk lady

Hi Sparrow

You have made the right decision. It's not always easy and can really get you down but dumping the toxic waste from your life will make going forward easier. Much love. Dee x

#8 Dec 5 - 2PM (Reply to #34)

Hunter

Sparrow

You Rock.. Hunter

#9 Dec 5 - 1PM

Anari

I think she loved your

I think she loved your husband and thought that if he were to pick anyone else it would have been her. I don't think you should dismiss the idea of an affair. Maybe he at the very least flirted with her. In any case, I don't believe she was your friend-cuz she definetly loved your husband. And I honestly think somthing happened. I hope I didn't upset you.

#10 Dec 5 - 11AM

Hermes

Mainly

The main point is, Sparrow, to keep the drama-rama out of it, and ban this "friend" literally and figuratively from your life. Good luck Hermes

#11 Dec 5 - 11AM

Im_always_fine

I'm just shocked. Speechless

I'm just shocked. Speechless even. Either she's leach who lived and loved vicariously through you. Like an alien using you as host to access your world and relationship. Like Jennifer Jason Leah's enmeshed character in Single White Female...*shudder.(but I don't think it's THAT sinister) Her unwillingness to support you during the break-up but her eagerness to be near you when you were with him or when she thought were getting back with him exposes her less than altruistic motives for being your "friend" I feel that something inappropriate did transpire between them. "The house has too many memories" ???? She went crazy when you started dating because it reduced the chances of a reunion for you and your X and ultimately her. It sounds like she wants things back the way they were. The question is "WHY?" Her own symptoms from her..I mean your...I mean their break-up sound real. Which leads me to believe that there was a real break-up of some sort. I would send her a box of Kleenex and a sympathy card on her "divorce" and be done with her.

#12 Dec 5 - 11AM

empath

Sparrow

I am feeling absolutely brokenhearted for you. The N I was with triangulated me like this also. It's not enough for them that they hurt us directly with their betrayal, they are sick to have planted a seed of destruction that grows into the betrayal of those with whom we felt close to. I imagine you must be sick thinking of all the things you had confided in your so-called friend, and are in shock at her "confession". If it is any consolation, this sounds like what happened to Heather Locklear, when she discovered her "best friend" Denise Richards was having an affair with Heather's then husband Ritchie Sambora. At the end of the day, take comfort in having flushed out TWO pieces of human garbage from your life. Neither of them are fit to shine your shoes. I am convinced the "friend" is even more fucked up than that N ex-husband of yours. I feel so deeply for you, that you are having this experience of "the other shoe hitting the floor" however I know from your posts that you are a very strong healthy empowered woman and will recover from this in no time. Both of them...trash. Whether or not they had a physical affair certainly they had an emotional one and that is a betrayal of the most immoral and depraved kind, even worse karma for the "friend" than the N. I would look upon this as a gift...surely God is clearing all of the unhealthy unstable people out of your life. Your future is intended to be bright and happy and would not be able to accommodate bringing these people forward...they are sick souvenirs of your past...put them in the trash where they belong and carry on.

#13 Dec 5 - 10AM

Sparrow

Thanks for the chuckle

Thanks for the chuckle Goldie. I appreciate it. I appreciate everyones posts here today. It's just another chapter in my story, another betrayal that I have to admit, accept and move on from...... I am disgusted right now, but this too shall pass...... I am tired of healing from all these disordered people! None of them have to heal from me! Jerks, all of them. I don't know how I managed to not become cynical after all of the crap I endured from the narcs in my life, but only by the grace of God and my guardian angel has my soul remained intact. But I do get angry, just like every one else in the world. And today, I am angry, along with hurt, betrayed, disgusted......like I said, it will pass. Thanks everyone, appreciate your posts and your support.

#14 Dec 5 - 8AM

Sparrow

Hunter, I don't want to talk

Hunter, I don't want to talk to him any more, as I told you the other night, I told him if he was to ever contact me again I would forward his emails to the OW. I haven't spoke to him since the last conversation when I told him that I would not be reconciling with him. After that, he continued to email me, but I didnt respond. I want nothing to do with either narc. Period. This is not about him, this is about her and our 30 year friendship. I knew something wasn't quite right......now I have the answer, but am not happy about it. It's disturbing on too many levels.

#15 Dec 5 - 8AM

Goldie

Hmmm....Sounds like she was "emotional" Narc supply

If you are certain that they did not have an affair, my guess would be that emotionally they did or they did emotionally on her part. One thing which I noticed about narcs and women is that they emotionally "screw" most of the women in their circles. They need to be the center of attention with most women regardless to who they are. Coworkers, the cleaning woman, the kids teacher, the neighbor, salesclerks, ect... I have seen this for years and been on the receiving end of it as well (had narcs, emotional try to screw me, who were involved with someone I knew). This is why often after the relationship is over, some random women will say: I thought he was such a nice guy, because behind our backs they are working these women. They are creating an, I am the good guy; she's the bad guy thing and they are so good at this that sometimes it is not even spoken. It is implied. They do most of this behind your back and you never see it coming. With the last narc for example. We had a female roommate and although I rarely saw them talking together there appeared to be some sort of connection between them. There were little clue's when I looked back on it. She started crying one time when he and I were having issue's and I was like, what is she crying about? She was supposed to move her stuff out of the spare bedroom where she was keeping the items until she fixed up her room. I finally asked her to take them out of there, I need the room back and she waits until I go into my bedroom one evening and goes out into the kitchen behind my back and asks him to help her move the stuff into her bedroom. I'm like, wtf was that all about. She could have asked me during the day to help her and she never did. When she left he seemed distrubed and saw her side in everything. With a narc, new OW; new supply if you will, even one's they have not slept with are the madonna's and we are the crazy bitches. I am also certain that they did not sleep together, yet there was an emotional connection there and it happened fast because she was only living with me for a little over a month. It's kind of like a triangle situation they secretly silently create against us with others. Like a commerade in the war "game" type of thing. I have seen this with all of them and the pathetic thing is that if we don't know to look for this, we never even know that it is going on. It is created with a glance, a gesture, a shared emotionally charged conversation which we were not privy to. When we say on here that they are constantly looking for new supply, we are not kidding. They do it all day; everyday. They look for sexual supply but also they look for emotional supply. In their minds we are always the bitches and they are always the victim. They pout and look sad when there is a conflict between us so random OW will say: what's the matter? And they are like: you have no idea how much I love her and she is.....whatever they come up with to say. So it appears as though they are not directly stabbing you in the back, but the message is clear. This little act causes the random OW to want to mother them and feel sympathy for them and thus the connection is created. We were at the mall one time and his friends young daughter gave him a big hug; she did not see me. I said, what was up with that? Oh she was at the house when you and I had broken up and she knew how sad I was over you and just wanted to make sure I was o.k. Hmmmmm, trying to garnor support from random teenaged daughter. The same thing with his friends gf. She was always hugging him over our breakups as well. The same thing with his boss and coworkers, they always acting strange around me as well and none of these people were there for me when the relationship was over, because of course, they missed him and their "secret" little connections. Anyway, Sparrow my dear, my guess would be that he was emotionally fucking this women for years and she fell for it and misses their connection. Dump her, she was not there for you for a reason. No sense in setting yourself up for round two if something like this ever happens again, we know who's side she will take. She is not loyal to you; she was loyal to him. She sounds like one of us, but if she does not come clean with this and get real and wake up and admit her feelings for him, you are just wading in the water with her and what you needed then and now moving forward is loyalty. God bless, Goldie

#16 Dec 5 - 9AM (Reply to #26)

Hunter

Goldie.. You are correct.. My

Goldie.. You are correct.. My Narc has " friend " I always thought they never slept together.. She is married and lives around the corner from him..they see each other all the time.. He mirrors her like crazy and she is google gaga over him.. But deep down I don't think they were intimate.. She is his secure supply.. I do think he uses her for business and one day that too will end.. Ahh.. Goldie you are such a good teacher. Hunter

#17 Dec 5 - 9AM (Reply to #23)

Sparrow

Thank you Goldie. I know

Thank you Goldie. I know what you are saying, it makes sense to me, it does. It doesn't even matter if they slept together or not at this point. What matters is I was betrayed by one of my best friends as well as Mike. It explains a lot. No wonder all of a sudden she wanted to be best friends again, once she learned that Mike wanted back in with me.......and no wonder she use to say when I would tell her how upset my daughter was over him not saying goodbye to her, just leaving, no goodbye. He response was "I know exactly how she feels, I didn't get the goodbye either. I stared at my phone for a week, waiting for him to call, and he never did" I told her that what my daughter was feeling was not to be compared to what she was feeling, my daughter lost her step-dad, a many who helped raise her for 15 years. That didn't seem to move her, she just kept comparing her own loss to my daughters. Now, I can only picture her staring at her phone all that time waiting for him to call, and he never did. She was a basket case after all of that, and now I have the clarity. Can I say, I am absolutely sick to my stomach over this?

#18 Dec 5 - 1PM (Reply to #25)

EiPuff (not verified)

omg

I don't know what to say to this - I think I would have made a scene, I'd have been so beside myself. I would have gone right off - "are you out of your f'ing mind? You didn't lose ANYBODY - you dumbass - if YOU were anything to him, you'd still be in touch with him" stuff like that - I guess the real shock is really that you found out this so-called "friend" is a narc and doesn't care at all about your feelings or pain. Tough, very tough - and I'm typing this 13 minutes after getting a text from my "N" - he hasn't been reaching out at all - (that entire week I paid to block him - he never even knew - lmao) asking me if I spoke to K, my gf, today. I was on phone w her all morning, she calls "how are you feeling? What are you thinking about him? How did you leave it w him? on and on. He said she called him, didn't leave msg and he called her back but she didn't pick up so he didn't lv message - wanted to know if I knew why she called. She never mentioned a word to me the whole time she was asking how I was doing - wtf is that about? lmao - this is why I love working and hanging out with men. Good lord.

#19 Dec 5 - 9AM (Reply to #24)

Used

sparrow

I can only try and imagine what pain you are in and how much sorrow you feel ,but once you have recovered , which you will, b/c i have noticed with all your posts that you have ever written here , that you DO YOUR BEST TO TAKE A POSITIVE OUT OF A NEGATIVE.... , you will do so with this too eventually..... be glad you didnt want him back, be glad you found out about this FRIEND.... BE GLAD THEY WILL BOTH BE FOREVER OUT OF YOUR LIFE NOW... AND THAT YOU WILL NEVER LOOK AT HIM OR LIFE IN THE SAME WAY AGAIN..... AS CYNICAL AS ITS SOUNDS... TO BE FOREWARNED IS TO BE FOREARMED... LOVE USED XXXXX

#20 Dec 5 - 8AM (Reply to #17)

Hermes

That's it, Sparrow

"Anyway, Sparrow my dear, my guess would be that he was emotionally fucking this women for years and she fell for it and misses their connection." NPDs love the "guru" "the advisor", the "sympathetic ear" stance. Ex-NH was a great one for that. He liked to "advise" certain women, usually a lot older, rather non-descript, not too well educated, married, who were stupid enough to consult him on a problem, (for example, problems with a teenage son or daughter). He thought he was an expert on that! LOL. Some of them would even stop me and tell me effusively what a wonderful advisor he was, how sympathetic, great with the "problem kid", bla bla. They'd say: "youa re so lucky to be married to someone like that, it must be so easy to talk over everything with him."!!! Gimme a break! LOL Hermes

#21 Dec 6 - 5PM (Reply to #22)

Marlinmom

Yikes, echoes of mine

Husband of 25 years just left me for "a rather nondescript, not too well educated, married" (when they met) mother of two children with 'issues' . . . same thing with me. Women always coming up at company parties or at school events (he was on the school board and a soccer coach) telling me how wonderful he was, so patient, willing to listen, such a nice nice guy. he fooled some of our closest friends with that crap; hell, he fooled me with that crap much of the time. it's all about attention. he even admitted to me once when I was angry at how he could never, ever pull himself away from a conversation with anyone first, even if he made us late. he would stay as long as someone would talk to him. "I guess I just have this need for attention." it's disarming when they actually point it out but even if they see it, they don't change. as a friend of mine who does this kind of therapy told me recently, the thing about BPD and NPDs is they have a "pathological certainty" about following their impulses, hurting people and violating boundaries, and rationalizing any problems that result as someone else's fault.

#22 Dec 5 - 9AM (Reply to #19)

Goldie

Ha ha; good one Hermes

The blind leading the blind. Yup, they are the "experts" alright. I think though, that once people on here fully GET that these PD's are manipulating all day long, that this is their bread and butter, new supply. Forever looking good to others and making us look bad. Then looking back, everything begins to click and makes sense. It suddenly makes sense why you got the looks and odd comments from others while you were in so much pain. Because.........drum roll please: they are working everyone behind our backs the entire time. Gaslighting us, no wonder by the time we make it to the forum, we often are completely emotionally spent and feel like we are losing our minds. Because.......another drum roll please: They set it up this way, so they could walk away clean, with no guilt or consciense about any of it. Of course until.......third drum roll please: New supply does not work out or quickly begins to see through our bullshit and..... they want us back!!! Thank GOD my dear Sparrow, this time you are armed with the truth and NOT falling for it. God bless, Goldie P.s. I am so sorry that this is breaking your heart right now, and as you put the pieces together you will grow even stronger from all of this as you begin to see that their bullshit manipulation actually affected and touched ALL area's of our lives. Thank God, he is gone and good riddance to him.

#23 Dec 5 - 10AM (Reply to #20)

Goldie

Everyone wants to claim dibbs to the narc

Sparrow, I just thought of something funny which happened at a narc's funeral. He was 39 when he died and had hit on just about everyone at one time or another. Laying his seeds throughout our circle of friends. His funeral was well attended as he had so many women "friends"; they were all crying hysterically because of their special connection to the narc. I attended the funeral with my friend who is happily married and was one of the few NOT hit on by narc. She did not know him very well and was only attending for me, who also did not sleep with the narc even though he had previously hit on me. Anyway, we are going through the receiving line to pay our respects to his longtime girlfriend and my friend not knowing what to say says: "Oh I'm so sorry for the loss of your boyfriend. He was a friend of mine. We had a special closeness." She was just choosing random words for lack of anything better to say, a totally innocent random comment. She was not aware that he was a narc. Girlfriends reply: "Oh I bet you did, narc had a "special closeness" with many women. I'm sure you did." Well I could not contain myself over that comment and burst out loudly laughing right in the middle of the funeral. I thought, OMG, my friend walked right into that response and never even saw it coming. I was still laughing as we left the funeral and my friends says: OMG, that's great, now she thinks I slept with her bf, my husband would be mortified. Hope this put a chuckle on your face Sparrow, you need a good laugh today. God bless, Goldie

#24 Dec 5 - 1PM (Reply to #21)

EiPuff (not verified)

lol

all I could picture was the scene from Two and a Half Men when Charlie dies and the line of women at the wake all walk up and spit on his corpse

#25 Dec 5 - 8AM (Reply to #18)

Hermes

Should read "Goldie"

Aaah, that should be directed to Goldie's post. Hermes

#26 Dec 5 - 8AM

Hermes

Still think

I still think she is delusional. Just my humble opinion. Your own intuition is the most exact, Sparrow. What do you really think? Anyhow, she is no friend, and sounds very flaky. Hermes

#27 Dec 5 - 9AM (Reply to #15)

Sparrow

Hermes

They are both delusional.......and I was blind. Period. I trusted both of them, and I was in the dark. It doesn't matter whether they slept with one another or not, he had, or pursuaded someone outside the marriage to have an emotional affair. It's still betrayal on so many levels, by both of them. And to think, she kept "warning" me about another friend of mine, after Mike left. I refused to believe her......now, I am left to believe she was throwing someone else under the bus to deter me from discovering her true feelings? I don't know......she actually almost had me convinced about my other friend, and that left me feeling guilty actually. Either way, I am done...........

#28 Dec 5 - 8AM

Hunter

I have to agree with Used..

I have to agree with Used.. Mike is a narc.. You said you had no idea when he dropped the bomb with current woman so don't be so sure He wasn't dipping his wick with this chick too.. All narcs do is cause hurt.. We are all the OW.. Fuck him.. You say you still talk with Him.. It's time to give Mike the silent treatment for good.. He Sucks... And this " friend" yes, a silly cow!! I must say I don't feel sorry for her.. Hunter

#29 Dec 5 - 1PM (Reply to #13)

EiPuff (not verified)

is it contagious???

I just posted how I found out from my "n" that my gf, K, called HIM today and my gf, A, just called to tell me she found out HER gf has been in touch with HER ex-N. Things really do happen in 3's

#30 Dec 5 - 7AM

Sea

I dont know what to say. Is

I dont know what to say. Is she deluded? Imagining things? The words that came outa her are illogical, crazy making. I feel for u Sparrow. I dont know how to reason this out. If i were u i would just avoid her going forward. Sorry to say this she is a useless friend, totally self absorbed. Cant even be over for a wine with u while u pack? Maybe she is truly mess up with your ex narc2. Hugs!! Sorry i did not manage to unravel her mystery. Looks like a nutcase to me.

#31 Dec 5 - 7AM

Sparrow

Used.......... Fuck, I think

Used.......... Fuck, I think your right. Now that I read your words. (excuse my French, I'm sorry to anyone that is offended by that word) They must have had an affair right under my nose. That would explain why she was always with us. And that would explain why she never came around, not never, but RARELY. And her sister pulled me aside one day on the beach and told me of her concerns with how she is dealing with all of this. I looked at her sister and said "So, I need to console her?" Her sister chuckled and said "That does sound like a silly request, huh?" She was with us poolside EVERY damn weekend, but yet, never spent a single day with me poolside that summer after he left. Not once..........always had an excuse. This isn't cool.

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