Do they always devalue you first?

Make no mistake. From the moment you meet these people they begin to devalue you. You need to be very cautious, in fact never talk to him again. He is keeping you on the back burner for now. Don't hang around for the final D&D because it will come and it will be ugly.

I'm really glad you brought this up, and that I got to read your post and these others because ive been wondering about my situation all along too. My N was very sneaky with the ways he dealt out his emotional abuse to me. It was constant, and I used to wonder alot of times why I was in a rage, or insecure or upset after spending time with him or talking on the phone. Lots of lying, lots of "joking" that was not really joking, interupting me or zoning out every time Ide start sharing something deep about myself, starting to make excuses for spending less time together, disrespecting me infront of others,CONSTANT invalidation, and playing the devil's advocate whenever I talk to him about something or someone and want his support; egnoring my affection and withholding his; the list goes on and on.....saying he's going to call me and not doing it,then saying the next day he forgot,or fell asleep, etc I felt devalued all the time by him actually, and he didnt take long to start doing that either.It was wierd--the nicer I was to him, the colder and more disrespectful he was to me. One good thing for me about being able to put a label on him is that at least Im able to make sence of things now looking back, and to know its just "what they do". Its nothing less than repulsive the way they treat us! It makes me sick to think what I put up with....but I will never put up with it again, thank God. Stealth abusers suck!! I say, "If they are going to be douch bags, at least they could be honest about it and up front with their abuse, instead of being so irritating and confusing about it."

HowcouldI, my question mark N was never mean to me either. You made a comment that left me thinking. I have been recieving less and less contact after each catch up. I have never been pushy or asking for too much, actually asking for nothing. I wait for his texts, I wonder if he thinks I am on to him and that is why he holds back even more? I have always felt discarded after we see each other. After he tells me all things nice, but never anything deep ... 11 months on and I don't know anything about him. Timtam

My N would rage and throw tantrums at the smallest of things but when he did something horrible to me I had no right to be upset. His anger was more important then mines. He would insult me and throw things and say he was just upset. If I got upset for being insulted and for him breaking my things I had no right to be upset and just should have shutup and maybe he wouldn't have did it. This is how it always went. So when he got upset and violent I started not saying anything and not getting upset and he would still be upset about my not being upset. There was no winning with him either way. To him when I was hurt i had no right to be hurt and when I wasn't hurt i had no right to be so indifferent. I tried everything and I mean everything all types of different methods to avoid fighting with him from being quiet, talking kindly, leaving, getting upset, etc. No matter what I always got the same reaction. ANGER. But then he would blame me of this saying "No matter what I do you react the same you just get pissed." I see now it was projection because that is what he was doing.

My P wasn't aggressive or angry - oh no, he projected all his stuff at me so eventually I was the one who was angry and aggressive. He even had anger management therapy and thought anger was something that you should smother not realising that it was a valid emotion in the appropriate setting. He ultimately was too afraid of letting his anger out as he knew that he would just have gone beserk. And there he had his "get out of jail free card", I was the culprit for all our problems because I showed my frustration and anger. It was always a subtle word, gesture or put down from him that would get my blood boiling. All ways of devaluing me. I was always having to fight my corner and so was perceived as the aggressor to others. He was Mr. Misunderstood and Sweetness (all lies) and "look what I have to put up with" scenario. So, I had taken on the P/N's traits which is very common. It is very normal when we come out of these types of relationships to feel that we are the N. But when we are not associated with them all these feelings dissipate and eventually we return to our pre-N selves because generally we have learnt so much about the disorder - with usually a lot of hard work on NC and self awareness. Sounds to me that all that he is promising you is the usual scrambled eggs and that he is circling you for NS whilst sourcing new NS. Hedging his bets but he is wary of you because you are on to him. They don't like to lose, ever! I always knew when my P was sourcing NS as he would mention casual conversations he had had with women at work (most of his NS have been work colleagues) or noticed their dress sense and compared it to mine in a derogatory way, and we would argue more because he was having to lie more to cover his tracks and his unexplained absences. The mobile phone is the P/N's god given gadget of deception. Dee x

devaluing you. The D & D doesn't have to come in anger or with an argument or fight. Many of them simply walk away and treat you like you don't exist. Many of them act exactly like yours is acting now. You are no longer "good" supply as you busted him in too many lies so he is baiting New Supply and you are being devalued. This is typical narc behavior. It is what they must do when the mask slips. It has nothing to do with you personally, however. It is just what they do. And this guy is a particular piece of work, juggling all his women making sure he has some sort of supply loop. He is still "decent" to you for this reason. Distancing yourself from this manipulative liar does not make you a narc! It makes you smart and strong. You will see what happens the stronger and more distant you get. It will make you feel better about yourself, your self-worth and the entire situation and I predict his behavior will change yet again. But WHO CARES ABOUT THAT. How Could I, this is ALL ABOUT YOU NOW! Try to focus on all of your outstanding qualities, your kind heart, your attractiveness and all the things that make you you and shift off of him and his predictable behavior. When you focus on your good qualities, good things will come. I hope this helps some, HCI. You have been doing very well in a most difficult situation and I know your heart hurts over this. It will get better. Keep striving, posting, sharing, learning and getting it out. Sincerely, (not) spinning. IT'S A FIGHT SOMETIMES BUT I'M WILLING TO GIVE IT ALL I'VE GOT TO NEVER SPIN AGAIN!

Ns/Ps have already plotted the end of the relationship, its gruesome demise, before it even starts. Now, one could chalk up this using the term "prejudice." They pre-judge the situation before it even happens. They don't know how it will turn out, but their catastrophic imaginations give them visions of the endgame before we even have a chance. My former Narc boss of 5 years liked constantly threatening new hires with firing. He barely knows how someone is as an employee- and he's already berating&yelling them, threatening them with "being in the unemployment line." The only sense of power/control he felt as a supervisor was making employees feel expendable. The ex-Psych prof idolizes Leo Tolstoy. When Leo was courting Sofia Behrs, he had already devalued her as "plain and vulgar" in his diary before he even married her. (Right after he married her, he called himself "petty and worthless"-not the NORMAL reaction to marrying someone whom one loves) In Tolstoy's "War and Peace",Pierre devalues Helene Kuragin the moment he meets her. He doesn't really know her, but he deems her worthless&stupid... and marries her not long after. Prince Andrei devalues Speransky because Speransky laughs&has a sense of humor (Andrei doesn't) Now Speransky was a real-life liberal Russian reformer, he made innovations in Russian law, and is still respected to this day. But with Andrei- it is devaluation, not love, at first sight. The ex-P would call me a slut (if I wore skirts or dresses), claim that I was a narcissist, emotionally unbalanced, intellectually shallow, the whole shebang, when he barely knew me. Perhaps devaluation is what starts the cycle, before the idealization.

I understand this.. mr. N was so cool and confident when we met (in a work situation. i was a consultant at the bank he still works at but i moved on from there) He was charming and said everything RIGHT. I adore foreign films and all of a suddend he said oh "i am mr. foreign film guy". i like art galleries and all of a sudden he would send me clippings of where the good art stuff was ( we are in NYC) His first comments to me were "you are angelic looking...) oh i should have run. he is a tall, dark, Indian man (handsome as anything with the right shoes, shirts ties and cuff links with his initials) anyway, fast forward 9 YEARS later. i know 9. I thought his DISTANCE from me was that he was indian and needed to marry an indian woman. But we dated in the beginning. never fun fun dates though. serious like btu i was infatuated. Then there was the sex and then he told me that he he and i shoudl have a causal thing because of his "family" i thought he meant he would marry an indian woman. and so i stupidly accepted the crap off and on things. and he was obsessed with me. and if i started dating someone else the missed calls woudl start (like 9 in a row) and then the texts to see him. ANYWAY, his behavior got very bad. he was doing coke and drinking hard. So then the nastiness started. His comments were underhandly cruel. And then he said if i was ever to marry he didn't want to know abotu it. I thought this was some romantic thing. NO, it wsn't. then recently he travels for work and decided to take a long term job in Hong Kong (where he was born and his family still lives) so i thought OMG he is going to get married. And he is... to A BLONDE BOSTON GIRL who he works with!!!! I found out about the engagement while he was CALLING me from HK, texting and emailing me.. still. I called him out on his "engagement" and he said "i don't want to go there." but he told me "you and i will always stay connected'...ok. so then i wrote him a few times asking what he meant and he said he would call. DID he? no. had 3 excuses and then told me my emails were NASTY. they really weren't. i was incrdibly hurt by his projection onto me. And i feel myself COWERING and asking him to believe i am not nasty. BUt he knows I am not. SO i found this forum to help me DO NC. any help is welcome. thanks.. tina

The N devalue others all the time. They do it naturally as to keep up with their superior thinking. At idealisation stage they would have already started bit by bit. At that stage we wont realise it yet we are so in love. If you think back carefully there are slight traces of it. My exN usually devalue and quickly say its a joke or quickly cover up with more flattering, gifts to keep me there.

The N I was involved with never devalued me with his words, never was overtly mean to me, always “politically correct”. I felt devalued only with his actions. With his behaviour and with his poor investment in our relationship. I do not really care if he is N or not. I do believe he is because of how I felt around him and in a relationship with him. Every time I withdrew because of his actions, he, at first, played it very hot to get me back and then, the minute he felt “he had me”, he would withdraw himself and show me his indifference. He never was angry with me. Hugs Winter

http://psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com/2010/12/22/the-psychopaths-relationship-cycle-idealize-devalue-and-discard/ Hunter

What does it matter if he suffers from a personality disorder or not? He is a liar & cannot be trusted. We do not know what he lied about. But whatever it was about, he has hurt you. And this is not just one lie. Seems like several. The question is why did he lie? The problem is that we all lie from time to time. It is a human failing. but usually we lie for a reason. The problem with disordered persons is that they take ordinary human failings and turn them into institutions. We forgive & forgive these failings in the disordered one because we view their errors as "mistakes" we all make. However, there is something very wrong when so-called "mistakes" become the regular course of business. Now your fellow says he will stop lying. What a concept! Sorta along the lines, "I will stop beating my wife." So he admits that he has done wrong in lying & will not do it anymore. Well, this begs the questions: "Why did you lie? And what has changed that you will never do this again even when you are in the same situation?" With my disordered one, whenever I asked for such analyses, he would get upset. One must simply accept the promise, forgive & move on. That is, make life easier for the disordered one. make his life more comfortable by giving him the supply & servivces he needs. That is, business as usual, until the next time he makes his usual "mistakes." And, the pattern repeats itself again. And suddenly years go by and a woman wastes her life on a man who is really running the whole show doing whatever he wants, when he wants. I read somewhere once. Catch a man in three lies in a short period of time -- RUN! And these are the lies you have caught. How many did you miss?

he was devalueing with his lies, then not texting so much, not talking to you so much, this is beign devalued... not all narcs are angry, they are covert, and as long as he is coming out with things like, i wont lie again, i know how much it hurt you, he is not apoligising, he is keeping you on a string, he is still saying things you want to hear, even what he said is a lie, that he wont lie to you again,is a lie, b/c he will always lie, thats what they do....