Desperate and upset

19 posts / 0 new

#1 Oct 16 - 1AM

divorcedfromevil

Desperate and upset

Hi. This is my first time posting. As you can see from my name, exnh was the one of the worst. Problem is, and I hope someone can help me here, we are back in court. He is lying so much, and I am very scared. My former attorney tells me I cannot maintain my composure and I have said some things (written and verbal) that have a negative impact on my case. I really do not have much contact with him, but we have 2 elementary school-age kids. We do all exchanges at police station. He has not worked in 2 years (approx. time we have been divorced). He has a gf whom he lives off of.
We are in court now because he has been in contempt of financial obligations to the kids for almost 1 1/2 years. Now he is using voicemails from last year when we were fighting (stupid me did not keep his!) and taking them out of context of things. I feel like I am going to lose it all. His attorney even filed for me to pay HIS bill because he is not working and I work 2 jobs to suuport the kids.
Now my attorney has fired me because he says I am saying things to exnh (have not) and I am basically up a creek. Cannot afford another attorney and pre-trial is in Dec.
So he is basically negating all of his financial obligations to the kids, telling them horrible things about me and I don't have a lawyer. I am supporting my kids on my own and have no extra money.
Any advice on how to do this with no attorney? Anyone know an attorney in Chicago who will help a desperate mother???

I am so depressed and scared and feel like there is no hope left for the kids and me. He lies, everyone believes him, is extremely lazy and doesn't even want the kids except to show everyone what a great dad he is! I am alone in my legal battle.

Thank you in advance. I am a lurker and read all the great advice you all have. Please help me!

#2 Oct 20 - 10PM

divorcedfromevil

Now what's going on???

So, exnh's atty mentioned that maybe she was going to file a motion for modification of custody! He doesn't even want to buy Halloween costumes!!! I am so stressed. It's affecting every single aspect of my life right now. All I wanted was for him to be financially responsible and they are making this World War 3!!! There is a certified letter waitimg to be picked up and I dread reading it! Is he really going to file for custody? Just to get the cs I bet! (he is ALL about the money!) On a better note, I think I have found a new atty. He sounds great, understands what exnh is doing, knows his atty, knows the judge. Best of all, he is a child rights advocate! Maybe my kids will finally get their day! New atty office wants to know why exnh got joint legal custody to begin with! Oh and BTW - doubtful he would get it, I think. He has no job, no home of his own, lives off others and DOESN'T WANT THEM! He just wants to financially ruin me. Should I be worried at all? After all, I did have to file a motion requiring him to take them to their own activities because they interfered with "his time"! So ticked off right now! What can I do??? PS - Every time I do something, he "tells on me" to his atty like a big baby!

#3 Oct 21 - 1AM (Reply to #18)

Briseis

What is your current custody

What is your current custody arrangement, per the court? He wants MORE than joint custody?? I am SO glad you've found another attorney. Remember your "lesson" from the last one. It makes you look bitter and potentially as chaotic as him when you engage in little email or text spats with him. No reaction. He will pull all kinds of things. Once this current one goes bust, he'll try another one. That's the nature of a Narc, and NO you won't be able to say anything, do anything to stop him. The best thing you can do -- for your own sanity, and for the sake of your kids needing a nice calm Mommy -- is to step back and get out of his head. You are used to him calling all the shots . . . or else. That time is OVER. Let your lawyer do his job. Start practising "no reaction" to him. Seriously, what can he do? He thinks he can do whatever he wants, but he's got another think coming. It's called the court system. Like I said before, he is only a man. A nobody. He's not anyone's boss. He is homeless, for gosh sakes LOL. Our "body" leaves the Narc long before our minds and emotions do. Your job now is to start pulling back your reactions to him, detach from him. You aren't controlling him anyway, he is playing YOU (getting you in trouble with your first lawyer). You are the only one getting hurt here, when you engage with him. Get beefed up on NPD and how it affects the victims. There are also some excellent books available, and online articles, about divorcing a narcissist. You aren't alone, and you don't have to blaze this trail, thank goodness!! Arm yourself with knowledge so you are responding in ways that HELP you, that help your attorney to help you :)

#4 Oct 18 - 12PM

Alive

change

your lawyer. Get as much HELP as you can. Be strong and courageous. I sooo feel for you. You poor woman. Fight him to the death. He will lose you will see, EX narc boy has finally broken all 'HIS' (as he puts it) contact order 'rules'. He has thrown 'his' conatct order in my face for years, this is control and manupilation. I understand you are very worried, hurt and upset, but you must and it's perative that you look afteryourself and the kids. Get the school and doctors involved because if you have not done so already the children and you are going to need them very SOON. Fight his dirty Narc backside into ???? I will let you have that vision.:) Get tough and read as much as you can on 'narc in court', very insightfull, excuse me if these words sound harsh :) You go for it ......

#5 Oct 18 - 11AM

helldweller

divorcedfromevil

I think a lot of us mothers have been there: in the position where you can't even believe it but feel the custody of your children is actually threatened. I never, ever imagined that would be the case with me, but the things I did under the influence of the narc have progressively threatened my motherhood. I live in Chicago, too, and I think the best thing for you would be to call the American Bar Assocation or the Chicago Bar Assocation and tell them your situation. They will be able to refer you to a perfect fit for you. Just my two cents: that lawyer of yours does not seem like someone you want on your side. I think you need a hard-assed female attorney with a LOT of experience with this flip-flopping, projection b.s.

#6 Oct 18 - 5AM

blueeyes

I would love help.

Please email me and I can forward the results of my 1st Pscho's custody evaluation. The Dr. Labeled him unstable. You can have this done and have HIM pay the costs. It is lenghthy to explain so get my email address and I can forward the evaluation. This is what won my case. This was in 2005 and I am over it emotionaly mentally and physically. My girls and I established NC. It's the only way!

#7 Oct 18 - 5AM

blueeyes

divorced from evil- advice on courts

Idk what state you live, and believe me they are all different. I had a child pschologist give my ex a "personality test". It basically tells if your abusive to children (which he was emotional and mental abuser). This test won my case. I went to trial fo 18 months! My 1sat husband was not a Narc, but he was a pschopath. I have it in writing. My girls were in elemetary school and he did some tricky legal BS and I lost all of my settlement to pay the lawyer. I had to get the best lawyer but even the best lawyers are super expensive. I still owe him thousands. So, I hired and paid up to 25,000 but stopped paying him because that's all the money I had! Well, I just included him in my bankruocy file! He actually called me, he felt bad. Lol. See, this is a game, even court, lawyers are actors! My ex-pscho didn't play the game becaus ehe "believed in his rights"! It screwed him in the end. I sent plenty of emails that were so nasty!he printed it out and brought it to court. The judge didn't want to see emails, my facebook, nothing! The judge rolled his eyes at my ex and said "Sir, I do not mendle in pettiness and I certainly do not read a wonans facebook to decide who her children live with. I would love to give you my court ordeal, but you would have to get my email. It's 18 months worth of bullshit! It made me an expert on winning when the law gets involved. My 1st husand was the worst fighter. He looked like a fool and the best part, my girls have not seen or spoke to him in almost 3 years!!!!!! Life has been quiet wo HIM. These men look like fools in a court room! Also, please listen to Betty about reading the blogs, books, and posts! Breises gives some great answers to posts. Michelle is strong as hell, well everyone can help you. Knowledge is power. Learn about their way of thinking a dammit. You are sure to win.

#8 Oct 16 - 1AM

betty2020

Welcome Desperate. I am from

Welcome Desperate. I am from the Chicagoland area and there are income based attorneys that work for a discount and go off of what you can afford. I will do some checking into this and see what I come up with. As for the N. Lay very low with him. Do not let him know anything about what your doing and do not speak with him. He is waging war. If you are drawn in he will use it as his weapon. I dont know the whole story so it is tough to give any real advice on this one but I know their tactics and how they manipulate us and the system. Stick close to the board for your support right now as you will need it with the up and coming events your going to have to face. I will be in contact... xoxo only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

#9 Oct 16 - 2AM (Reply to #11)

divorcedfromevil

Thank you so much

Thank you for your replies. I am so sick over this and crying. I try to have very little contact, but he does get me sometimes. The information he is using is mostly from last year as I have tried to go as NC as I can. But this whole thing is making me sick and affecting my job, my relationship with me kids (kind of feel like they are spying, cuz he gets everything out of them about my life). I know they are innocent, but I am suspicious of everything. How sad is that, huh? I look forward to your information, Betty! Thank you, Hook!

#10 Oct 21 - 1AM (Reply to #12)

almostlydia

Above all, which is why NC

Above all, which is why NC is so vital, you have got to calm yourself down and separate from the fear and outrage he is causing you. Stop. Remember the reality of who you are as a Mother and who he is. Get this in your head so that you can deal from a matter of fact basis and not an outraged, crazy woman with passion about any of this. The only passion you have is to have a good situation for your children. That is all. As their Father he is responsible. He will only want custody if it is working something for him. For all of your sakes, breath, and get this rage, fear, and craziness at bay so that you can deal with him. Thank God you have a new attorney who may understand the torment you are being put through. But you have to get a grip on it all for yourself. You have to get some clarity in your head to give you the peace to fight this fight on a level playing field. My very best to you. I know this craziness, but you can overcome it especially when everything is at stake. Now is the time to dig deep. almostlydia

almostlydia

#11 Oct 16 - 2AM (Reply to #10)

betty2020

Also please read everything

Also please read everything on the board. The blog section and share story section. Its important to educate yourself so you know what your up against. only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

#12 Oct 16 - 1AM

hooklineandsinker

I'm not familiar with the US

I'm not familiar with the US legal system, but I'd imagine it's not too different from the Irish one. You can represent yourself in court. Family law is not a complicated area of law. Going on the attitude of judges in family law cases in Ireland, we have a no-fault system here, so the whole "who said what to whom" as between the adults involved is COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT from the court's point of view, as all judges want to know is that children's interests are being put first - period. I'd imagine US judges will have a similar attitude. So don't worry about him saving old voicemails and so on. So you simply give your oral evidence to the court that he hasn't paid his child support for two years. Was there a court order for that child support in the first place, as opposed to a private agreement between you or an agreement drawn up by your lawyers? If so, he's in contempt of court as well. If there's a court order for those payments and he's in default, it's like any other debt and you can sue him for it (like a bank suing to get a loan repaid) alongside asking the court for a formal order for child support into the future. Does the support get paid directly into your bank account? If so, you can bring bank statements to court to show that nothing has come in in 2 years or whatever. If not, you can just give your evidence orally of his failure to pay. Also, here in Ireland there's a provision for imprisonment of people who default on debts - it may be the same in the US. There are citizens information bureax and websites here which will outline for you how to go about representing yourself in cases of this type. I wonder are there similar websites/organisations over there? Like I say, it's not a complicated area of the law and if it's a similar situation to Ireland, every citizen has the right to represent themselves in any case to which they are a party. You are not obliged to have a lawyer. I'm sure judges see a lot of lay litigants in family law cases, especially where there is a shortage of money. The best of luck with it and let us know how you get on.

#13 Oct 16 - 2AM (Reply to #2)

hooklineandsinker

PS: the other thing to

PS: the other thing to remember is that if you give oral evidence in court you will more than likely be cross-examined afterwards by his lawyer. DON'T get upset or rattled in the witness box. Just stay as calm as possible. I know it's easier said that done, but keep all of your efforts on keeping your voice level, low and calm. If you don't understand a question, say so, and ask to have it repeated. Take as much time as you need to answer a question. Take long, deep breaths beforehand to feel calmer. Answer just the information part of any question, not the emotion part, to ensure you come across as calm and rational as possible. It's quite hard to do, especially in family law cases where by its very nature the case has an emotive content, but it's important that you don't let his lawyer upset or confuse you. Just keep your mind on the important fact, which is that he's in default on his payments for his own children, and the court needs to know the details of that.

#14 Oct 17 - 8PM (Reply to #3)

divorcedfromevil

Talking to my attorney

OK, so I am going to talk (beg) my attorney to keep me on since he knows my case. Pre-trial is in 1 1/2 months and his discovery should be coming soon and I don't know how to proceed. He was a psych major, apparently, in college before law degree. He should understand about Narcs, right? any ideas on how to beg him back to represent me? I am going to tell him I will not answer emails from exnh, do everything by the letter, but don't know if it's enough. Until I get info from Betty (if you can find it I really appreciate it!), this is my only option as exnh is so far behind on obligations (except cs, he keeps getting that lowered - but all other financial to kids)I cannot afford tostart with a new attorney. Any ideas on how to prove I will stay NC and silent in court? Any help would really be appreciated!

#15 Oct 17 - 9PM (Reply to #4)

kiwi10

psychology is just starting

psychology is just starting to get the narc thing i think. my x was an attorney. they can be weird about helping people prose. do you have proof of the abuse to show him?

#16 Oct 17 - 9PM (Reply to #5)

divorcedfromevil

I have all the text messages

I have all the text messages and email for the past year saved. The problem is that the attorney thinks I have said too much to exnh lately. Here is the last email exchange that I know exnh forwarded to his attorney that I think was last straw - BTW I know answering was wrong, but could not help it: I received an e-mail from you today regarding (son's) having a gastroenterologist appointment this Friday. Just to remind you that as of October 1st 2010 I do not have health insurance anymore, that means the kids are not covered right now, So I suggest to you that unless the appointment with the gastroenterologist is an emergency, you better cancel it and wait until some sort of insurance is in place. I also hope that your aware that I filed a Petition for Modification of my obligations (medical, dental, child care, extracurricular's, etc.) due to my financial circumstances asking the Court to make the modification retroactive to the date of filing (August 20th) and I have every reason to believe that the Court is going to dramatically reduce or abate my 50% obligation. Therefore, with this knowledge, you should proceed with caution regarding what sort of expenses you incur on behalf of the children as you may get tagged with 100% of it . My response: Thank you for your financial concerns and for for the lack of concern for our son's well-being. Message received, Thank you. I also accidentally left my signature quote: If the original father is undeserving and unworthy, God often chooses another father. I think I made a huge mistake with this, but have been fighting for 2 years for kids against a non-human. Help!

#17 Oct 18 - 2AM (Reply to #7)

Briseis

Welcome to Vain Forum :) It

Welcome to Vain Forum :) It was a mistake, unfortunately. The kind we have all made about a million times, so you are in good company :D Even though you've been fighting for 2 years for your kids against an inhuman beast, it's no reason or "excuse" to sabotage yourself. I'm thinking that's how the lawyer sees your communications with your stbxN. You are sabotaging your own case by communicating to him, by trying to slap him back, get the last word. And you are doing it in WRITING which stbxN can then promptly forward to HIS attorney who sends it to yours. I would GO for it. Go to your attorney and tell him that you understand you have been sabotaging your case and undermining his efforts to help you get a fair deal in this divorce. You want to do exactly what he tells you to do, and NOTHING else, because you understand now that what YOU want to do has been bolluxing up the works. It bolluxed up the works so bad he FIRED you lol. Just in case you needed any more proof :( I couldn't NOT snap back at my exN either. I thought if I just let what he said stand, I was being a doormat and he was winning. I couldn't live with that, who could?? I had to change the way I "looked" at what went between me and exN (not an ex at that point). I had to get a more realistic and mature and workable way of dealing with his endless manipulations. I was seeing our interchanges like we were two little kids going NYAAAAHHH at each other. Endless snap backs and slap downs. So how would an adult deal with such things? An adult (in my mind) would not lower themselves to going NYAAAAH well you suck as a father so there. An adult would see the obvious manipulation, hoping you'll react and then DENY him the pleasure of your reaction. Nothing gets a Narc's goat better than that. It is the ultimate insult . . . no reaction. No contact. The Narc doesn't even MATTER. And that's what they want. To matter to you, very very much. I know all of this other stuff is happening. You wouldn't be trying to take your child to a gastroenterologist if something weren't wrong, if the child didn't need more specialized care :( . IF the child really needs to go, will go without necessary medical care and suffer because of it, take him/her, that's much more important than anything else. But that is a red herring, in a way. It's a separate issue. Your Narc reached out and jerked you around, using your fear of your child's condition to manipulate you. He should be SHOT and put out of his (and your) misery. But you can ignore that. If your kid needs to go, he/she needs to go, period. That's adult thinking. I think that's what your lawyer is wanting you to do.

#18 Oct 20 - 11PM (Reply to #8)

NancyM

Divorced

Just following on from Biseis, yup, somehow you have to just follow your lawyers advice and NOT respond to him. Remember he is the master tactician at all this, and when he comes at you, be sure there will be a particular response that he is looking for and can go running back to his Atty going "see?? SEEE???" like the 6 year old he is. (while appearing cool calm and collected to everyone else) But with all of this here is the thing. Narcs are usually SOOO self righteous that they often don't see their own attempts can start to be revealed for what they realy are, and rule of thumb with a Narc, if they don't get the required response they usually up the ante. Unfortunately it makes everything uglier, but if you can stand your ground and not give in at this time, the chances are he will REALLY expose himself. Batten down the hatches girl, you are in the middle of that war zone, and when you are ready to let rip at the world...come do it here. Best of bestest luck.

Nevergoback

#19 Oct 17 - 10PM (Reply to #6)

kiwi10

his robotic and 'feighned

his robotic and 'feighned healthy' response is obviously callous. any judge who has seen divorces knows damn well people are temporarily insane during one, and its not like you said anything abusive. I don;t understand why your attorney is getting you all stressed out. people are really fucking rude to eachother during a divorce. at one point my x husband asked me to simply take over the bills for the house and i went OFF. seriously... he does sound 'non human'. don;t worry about what you said it wasn't abusive.

Path Forward Buy Now Reviews
All About Her Buy Now Reviews
All About Him Buy Now Reviews