At this point in my life this is something I don't understand any more.
But for a long time my Narc mother refused to acknowledge ANY of my accomplishments - my BFA, my MA, my work, my living on my own in a big city 100s of miles away and making good. She ONLY acknowledged my 1. GETTING MARRIED and 2. HAVING CHILDREN.
When she found out I was permanently disabled she told exNH to "leave" me because now I "was useless to him." And when I started making plans to leave exNH she was HORRIFIED. I couldn't NOT be married... according to her I was NOTHING WITHOUT A MAN IN MY LIFE. Of course now I know she was a Narc so that explains it all.
We women are sometimes so programmed to be with SOMEONE - ANYONE - or to BE MARRIED we never learn the pleasure of our own company and put up with the unacceptable. Movies & TV program us to CRAVE the 'perfect relationship/ marriage' and make it FAR TOO IMPORTANT. It took me time but now I am very much at peace in my own company.
Pathologicals count on women NEEDING TO HAVE A MAN... count on it!
~~~~~~~~~~~~
My site: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
This site's very illuminating if you're wondering if any of 'his' behavior is indicative of pathology:
http://www.choicesoforegon.com/thinking_errors.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~
My site: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Of course not - isn't this a PERFECT example of how these guys live in a DIFFERENT REALITY?
Killer collected souvenirs
http://www.nypost.com/seven/04222009/news/nationalnews/alleged_craigslist_killer_collecting_wom_165656.htm
Gave off 'Creepy Vibe' to some
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2009/04/22/2009-04-22_smart_cleancut_kid_markoff_creepy_vibe.html
Profile of the Sociopath
This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.
* Glibness and Superficial Charm
* Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.
* Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."
* Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.
* Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.
* Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.
* Incapacity for Love
* Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity, alcoholism and gambling are common.
* Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.
* Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.
* Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.
* Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.
* Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.
* Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, but exploits others effectively.
* Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.
Other Related Qualities:
1. Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
2. Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
3. Authoritarian
4. Secretive
5. Paranoid
6. Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired LIKE BEING A DOCTOR??!!!
7. Conventional appearance
8. Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
9. Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
10. Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
11. Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
12. Incapable of real human attachment to another
13. Unable to feel remorse or guilt
14. Extreme narcissism and grandiose
15. May state readily that their goal is to rule the world
(The above traits are based on the psychopathy checklists of H. Cleckley and R. Hare.)
NOTE: In the 1830's this disorder was called "moral insanity." By 1900 it was changed to "psychopathic personality." More recently it has been termed "antisocial personality disorder" in the DSM-III and DSM-IV. Some critics have complained that, in the attempt to rely only on 'objective' criteria, the DSM has broadened the concept to include too many individuals. The APD category includes people who commit illegal, immoral OR self-serving acts for a variety of reasons and are not necessarily psychopaths.
DSM-IV Definition
Antisocial personality disorder is characterized by a lack of regard for the moral or legal standards in the local culture. There is a marked inability to get along with others or abide by societal rules. Individuals with this disorder are sometimes called psychopaths or sociopaths.
Diagnostic Criteria (DSM-IV)
Since the age of fifteen there has been a disregard for and violation of the right's of others, those right's considered normal by the local culture, as indicated by at least three of the following:
A. Repeated acts that could lead to arrest.
B. Conning for pleasure or profit, repeated lying, or the use of aliases.
C. Failure to plan ahead or being impulsive.
D. Repeated assaults on others. (physical or verbal)
E. Reckless when it comes to their or others safety.
F. Failure to honor financial obligations.
G. Rationalizing the pain they inflict on others.
2. At least eighteen years in age.
3. Evidence of a Conduct Disorder, with its onset before the age of fifteen.
4. Symptoms not due to another mental disorder.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
My site: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
It was such a strange thing when I finally woke up and realize the level of denial I was in. I actually sought therapy during my relationship with most recent ex N...thinking he was so wonderful and doing nothing wrong...that I was somehow "screwed up" in my brain from the 1st N. A few weeks into therapy, we got engaged and I remember telling the therapist that my fiance was doing nothing wrong so I couldn't figure out why I was (again) having anxiety and insomnia. I totally tied it back to my experience with the first N and that I wasn't "processing" my soon-to-be-marriage relationship correctly. After all hell broke loose with ex N fiance, I started to see (slowly at first) that, in fact, my anxiety and insomnia had nothing to do with the 1st N...second N was manipulating, brainwashing, gaslightlighting, etc. But oh how I couldn't see it when I was trauma bonded and succumbing to his trance, suggestion tactics. I'll bet in time craig's list fiance will wake up too...but she is still in denial. Defending her N man despite the glut of evidence saying he's a psycho.
I'm right with you on this.
It's easy to be asleep at the wheel for a while but this story is a reminder to pay attention.
I didn't mean to ever sound accusatory towards what she (unfortunately) needs to go through.
When she sent her email to GMA it was within hours of her world falling apart.
I know it took me a good 4 days of incredible hysteria before I could even really begin the calm, centering process that I needed. Today is my nine week "anniversary" of learning the truth. I thought I had a lot to deal with, but it does not begin to touch this story. Her immediate denial was pure animal insinct to survive a sudden, near-fatal attack.
its scary how women defend these men...a lot do so out of just denial or refusing to want to believe or accept something that could be very traumatic for them to understand or accept. ive had friends or relatives who were in denial of abuse only b/c they were not educated on abuse and defended their abusive partners, even after being explained the circumstances..its hard for a female who has little clue about abuse to accept their partner is this way. its also hard for women who are aware of it, to want to perceive the traumas or horrors esp if they are extremely shocking and they go in denial mode too...some just love their partners too much and want to believe the sad illusion and can't let go of that...it would be too hard...it would be accepting a grim and sick reality and letting go of a wonderful fantasy and something they thought existed but was a total lie...that's hard for anyone to accept...but refusing to accept the bare evidence of a serial sociopath...or soemthing like this is disturbing and the person really needs to come to grips with reality in situations like that
what's scary to me is if you go back and read people's comments about Scott Peterson, Bruce Pardo, Dennis Rader and even Drew Peterson - IT ALL SOUNDS THE SAME TOO!! Looks are so decieving!
excerpts:
...authorities say his computer... paint a picture of a suspected serial criminal who targeted women offering erotic services through Craigslist. Now he's accused of killing one and suspected of robbing and tying up another.
And police have said there could be more victims.
"This was a brutal, vicious crime — savage, and it shows Philip Markoff is a man who is willing to take advantage of women, to hurt them, to beat them, to rob them," District Attorney Daniel Conley said Tuesday. "He probably thought he was going to get away with it. He thought he was too smart for us."
Authorities said she and Markoff communicated through e-mail and cell phone to set up a meeting.
Investigators traced an e-mail to Markoff, who created a new address the day before Brisman's body was discovered at the Marriott Copley Hotel. He was arrested Monday in Walpole, less than 20 miles southwest of Boston, as he drove with his fiancee to Foxwoods Resort Casino in Connecticut.
Markoff's grandfather, Jerome Markoff, a lawyer from Arnold, Md., said he was shocked.
"This is not my grandson. I know my grandson," he told The Boston Globe. "I hate to see a rush to judgment... He's a wonderful boy, just absolutely wonderful, and couldn't be better. I'm proud of him and proud of his abilities as a medical student. He always wanted to be a doctor."
Markoff was listed as a member of the bowling and golf teams, the National Honor Society, history club and youth court.
He graduated in 2007 from the State University of New York at Albany. Later that year, he had a broad smile in a photograph taken as he put on a "white coat" at a ceremony for incoming BU medical school students.
Police say they found a semiautomatic weapon, duct tape and restraints — what prosecutors called "critical, powerful" evidence — in the upscale apartment he shared with his fiancee in Quincy, about 10 miles south of Boston.
"I can't even put it into words, the disbelief I'm feeling right now," neighbor Jonathan Uva said. "This is a great guy ... just a total disconnect from what we're hearing in the news."
"It's hard for me to get into his mind. The evidence that we have is Julissa put up a pretty tough struggle, and it's in the context of that struggle that she lost her life," Conley said.
"He could not hurt a fly," McAllister said in an e-mail to ABC's "Good Morning America. "All I have to say is Philip is a beautiful person, inside and out."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090421/ap_on_re_us/us_craigslist_killing
the fiance was probably clueless as to his true nature
I'm reminded of Scott Peterson - who fooled people for years with his clean-cut, all American image...
Dennis Rader, the Boy Scout Leader, Church Council member and the BTK Killer...
and Bruce Pardo - the 'good husband & dad' who dressed up as Santa and torched people at a Holiday party
psychopaths. All psychopaths.
Every psychopath (and narc) I know had some addiction: gambling, sex, alcohol, shopping... every. single. one.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
My site: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Me too.....poor girl
Remember: Safe People are people who draw you closer to who you were meant to be spiritually, emotionally, mentally and physically. They encourage you to be your most loving, growing self.
(Emotional Abusers- Heartless Bitches International)
Everyone's saying what a great guy he was, they are completely shocked. This is a very good example of how these people can fool ANYONE.
I do wonder if or how much of his 'bad side' the fiance saw?? She's either in total denial in a fantasy world or protecting him? Saying he's a beautiful person inside and out and she can't wait to get married to share a wonderful, meaningful life together'. She strikes me as odd, but maybe it's just me. ;)
Think about how TOTALLY these narcs & psychopaths control, brainwash and fool people. It's usually a devastating blow when you realize what they are. There's loads & loads of denial. Magical thinking. It's life altering to realize you're in love with a monster. (who either murders people or kills your soul)
Heck - I protected psycho-boy for years. I excused his behavior. I told everyone what a great guy he was. Turns out he's a remorseless sexual predator. BTW - his wife STILL protects him and believes all his B.S. - every single word. Some people never see.
When are people going to GET IT that psychopaths & narcs BLEND RIGHT IN??
~~~~~~~~~~~~
My site: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
Yes, I protected mine to, to a degree, made excuses. But thinking back, I don't remember ever saying, 'he's sooo great' with any enthusiasm, I guess because I didn't truly feel that (I only did in the very beginning).
And what I realized too is that I knew, just knew he'd disappoint me in some way one day. Heck, I have photos of my family in my office, but never put one of him in there. And I didn't tell a whole lot of people about him, even though we were in a committed relationship. Just amazing.
Time just made me feel pretty luke-warm about him, and it showed.
I do feel sorry for the poor girl, she is in for a severe rude awakening. :(
Barbara & Quietude,
I can identify with you, I protected my Ex-Narcissist as well, I used to tell everyone what a wonderful guy he was, I put him on a pedestal, and I knew deep within me that he was a source of agony in my life. I knew deep inside of me that he was a man that really was not loving nor affectionate with me, he was irresposible, and he lied to me on a regular basis. But I always wanted to honor him in front of people, so people would respect him. And what this caused was a greater illusion. Later people thought he was perfect, the perfect husband, they thought we were the perfect marriage, when indeed we were not. And this hurt people deeply and they were in shock when they found out we were getting a divorce because he was cheating on me and he did not want to leave the other woman. I even caught myself trying to protect him during the divorce process. I give credit to my sister for shaking me and confronting me about it, and not letting me continue to do this until the end. Why do we protect these guys? Any insight?
we protect them for 2 huge reasons
1. Trauma Bonding (google this to learn more)
2. Trance, Hypnosis & Suggestion - this is beautifully outlined in WOMEN WHO LOVE PSYCHOPATHS. (if you can't afford it get your local library to order it for you!)
~~~~~~~~~~~~
My site: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
I think maybe we protect them because that way we can maintain the illusion we have in our own mind that everything is ok. We lie to ourselves because we don't want to admit there are significant problems in our marriage. That way, we won't have to deal with them. We don't want to face reality. My friends were shocked when I separated from my ex-husband. One of my friends even said we were the couple she aspired to be when she fell in love.
We protect them because we're trying to protect and salvage any remnants of our relationship that haven't already been destroyed. We know it's too late to rectify, but we still cling to hope that maybe it's not. I think it's human nature. It's instinctive to protect what you believe in. I think that says something about how committed we are. We don't give up easily on what we believe in. Even in the face of total adversity, we try to tell ourselves it's not that bad hoping for some miracle.
This is so true. I was hoping for a miracle. My counselor told me that she thought I wanted this marriage so badly that I wanted to just continue in the fantasy that everything was going to be OK. And that I wanted this thing called "marriage" so badly that I was willing to give whatever it took - even if it meant loosing myself in the effort.
I would guess he totally hid his other side. The internet makes it easy to do. Anyway, who knows what all she is really thinking right now.
Something that caught me from the story, was his friends, though they said they were surprised...also said they didn't even know he was engaged, that he was just dating this girl. And their wedding is in only four months!
I also thought of Scott Petersen...whose girlfriend didn't even know he was married til she saw him on tv looking for his missing wife!! And called the police, bless her heart.
A good read for everyone (I re-read it myself when I need to)
Fantasy And It's Effect On Your Reality
by Sandra Brown, MA
Women who are in relationships with pathologicals test very high in the trait of 'fantasy.' Fantasy is not just merely wishful thinking. Fantasy has other components in it that effects your here and now life.
Fantasy is often associated with the future and in some ways the past. Here's how... women often stay in pathological relationships because they feel panic or fear of abandonment when she or the pathological tries to end the relationship. They end up re-contacting or allowing re-contact be-cause of these feelings of fear/ panic/ abandonment.
The past association with those feelings is that abandonment is an early childhood feeling. As adults, we don't technically feel 'abandoned.' That's because as mentally healthy adults, we can't be abandoned. So that feeling is an early childhood feeling usually associated with some time of adult or parental abandonment. It is an age-regression feeling -- something that pulls us back to our childhood or a very young emotional state.
The feeling of 'ending' a mate relationship often subconsciously without our realizing it, sets off childhood feelings of abandonment. These are past associations and it taps into fantasy that it is happening all over again when it really isn't. The previous male in your life who did abandon a child is not the same thing as a pathological leaving your adult life.
But inside, internally, the child feeling is so strong that it feels like a 'hole in the soul.' The fantasy of THIS being the same as THAT takes hold and your panic makes you go back or allow him back in.
Fantasy is also future oriented. Fairy tales are fantasy are based on "Once upon a time"... and "Happily ever after" which is all the good stuff that 'might' happen in the future. Women stay in relationships with pathologicals based on a lot of 'fantasy future betting' -- that is 'he might stop being pathological, ' he might marry me, ' 'he might stop cheating,' 'he might tell the truth.' Fantasy betting is alot like gambling... betting on a future that is not likely to happen with a pathological.
Why? Because pathology is the inability to change and sustain change, grow in any meaningful way and the inability to see how his behavior effects others.
But women also stay in pathological relationships based on 'projected fantasies' that is, she fantasizes he will be happy with the NEXT woman and she will get all his good traits and none of his bad. This too is fantasy... that his pathology somehow will not effect HER the way it effects you.
Here's some info: Pathology Effects EVERYONE the SAME!! (Unless she's pathological as well -- then who cares if he goes on to have a relationship worthy of a Jerry Springer Show?).
* Women fantasize that this 'abandonment' feeling will effect them the way the childhood abandonment did (and it will not--just as an FYI for you).
* Women fantasize that he will be different with them. If he is trully pathological he is hard-wired. This IS his DNA.
* Women fantasize that he will be happy in the future and she is missing out on something. If he is truly pathological, his patterns don't change.
Fantasy is not here and now. It's all in the head and all 'out there somewhere' kind of thinking. Come back in your body and back into what's real. List the 5 most real points about him right here:
1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
Now stand back, step out of the childhood feelings, and look at the list with adult eyes. You can't be abandoned as an adult because where ever you go, there you are and you are all you need as an adult. You don't have dependency needs as an adult like you did as a child. To be abandoned is to be dependent on the one who is abandoning. Adults are not dependent.
Your real life with all it's drama and pathological intrigue is going on right NOW while you are all hung up in your head in fantasy. You are MISSING your real life that is happening right now! Your life is drama, it's obsession and intrusive thoughts. You are ignoring your own health, your own self care and happiness and probably your children and friends. THAT'S your real life -- but your fantasy is telling you 'just a little longer and he'll get it and then I'll have the life I really want.'
Did you get sucked back on to planet earth just then?? Did you feel the wind tunnel effect as you came back into the here and now?
Just WHAT ARE you fantasizing about today?
http://howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com/2007/11/fantasy-and-its-effect-on-your-reality.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~
My site: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
great article...
Your real life with all it's drama and pathological intrigue is going on right NOW while you are all hung up in your head in fantasy. You are MISSING your real life that is happening right now! Your life is drama, it's obsession and intrusive thoughts. You are ignoring your own health, your own self care and happiness and probably your children and friends. THAT'S your real life -- but your fantasy is telling you 'just a little longer and he'll get it and then I'll have the life I really want.
I spent a year doing that.
You are missing your real life that is happening now!
Barbara - such a good point!
"You are missing your real life that is happening now!"
It took me a long time to realize this, but when I finally did it brought me so much serenity.
A good book on this topic is Eckahart Tolle's "The Power of Now." He talks about how most anxiety in life comes from too much focus on the past or future and not enough focus on the present. This is so true. If we obsess about the past or worry about the future, we will live in a state of anxiety.
Why? Because there's nothing we can do to change or control either the past or future. The only thing we have control over is the present moment and we can choose how we want to feel in the present. We can ask ourselves:
"Is everything alright right now? Am I safe and in a good place?"
If the answer is yes, we should be grateful. This gratitude allows us to actually enjoy the present moment we are in. Isn't this what life should be about? We should enjoy life, embrace it and savor every moment of it. Life is a blessing.
However, if we allow ourselves to get stuck in past regret or worry about the future, we keep ourselves in a state of anxiety. By living in anxiety all the time, we miss out on our real life that is happening now. We are so busy worrying and obsessing that we don't appreciate the present moment. We're too distracted with our thoughts and our real life passes us by.
We cannot change the past and we certainly cannot control the future. Accepting this brings a sense of serenity I never knew was possible. This is why the serenity prayer is so powerful for me:
God grant me the serenity to
Accept the things I cannot change
Courage to change the things I can and the
Wisdom to know the difference
All we need to ask ourselves is how are we doing at the present moment and appreciate it for all it is. This is the only true way of living. By doing this we experience life. When we experience life, we are fully living. Live life!
This is a bit off topic, but occasionally, I watch Eckhart's videos just to relax me. He's such a sweet, gentle person, and has a great calming effect.
I also like how he mentions not to worry so much about the future, and you can accomplish this by taking action now. He has some good, practical insight, regardless if you're into 'new-age' or not.
CIA OPERATIVE WANNA-BE
http://cyberpathlinks.blogspot.com/2005/05/nathan-ernest-burl-thomas-jr.html
THE DR. PHIL BIGAMIST
http://cyberpathlinks.blogspot.com/2007/05/ed-hicks-aka-charles-hicks-aka-charles.html
RECOVERY MAN
http://cyberpathlinks.blogspot.com/2008/07/daniel-jacoby-dan-jacoby.html
THE HIPSTER GRIFTER (female)
http://www.observer.com/2009/style/hipster-grifter?page=0
I also found out Psycho-Boy? Is TROLLING FOR ABUSE VICTIMS on Twitter.com!! I hope to heck someone busts his ass soon.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
My site: http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com
Cost-Effective Coaching for Victims of Pathologicals
http://one2one4victims.webs.com/
women who can't be alone
worth bookmarking!
The Psychopath Next Door
psychopath...
He is so busted. They've
Asleep in the passenger seat
I'm right with you on
scary
more on the Craigslist murderer
the fiance was probably clueless as to his true nature
Me too.....poor
the craigslist guy
quietude
protecting them
Protecting them
Ruby - a couple reasons
Protecting them
True
I would guess he totally hid
A good read for everyone (I re-read it myself when I need to)
great article... Your real
You are missing your real life that is happening now!
Tolle
some reads about internet psychopaths