The Path Forward Virtual Retreat Febuary 2021!



Damned if you do, damned if you don't

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Sep 16 - 2PM
The Girlfriend ...
The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl's picture

YES! You are really getting it!

Funsize, already in just a few short days you seem to be quickly understanding the complexities of being with a Narcissist and I for one am glad to see you doing this...coz educating ourselves about this personality disorder/character flaw helps us know it isn't our fault...and helps us to be able to restore 'who we are'...vs. THEM! Sometimes we get stuck somewhere between blaming ourselves and being confused...and it being THEIR problems and messed up view of the world.(truth!) So glad you don't seem to be wondering 'if it was you'...as so many of these blood-sucking psycho's leave us feeling like that...and so confised about WTF 'Just happened'... In answer to your question...if I may...since I am sort-of a veteran here for almost a year...YES YES YES...these deranged dudes absolutely WILL D & D you...it is a guarantee in all realtionships with them...and they absolutely look for some of the most 'bubbly' (happy) sweet, loving, pretty, accomplished, intelligent women to have their 'quasi-relationships' with (to us it is REAL...but to them...well,we are only 'supply'...a difficult concept to grasp...but once you do...it makes things easier to 'get' about these creeps) They WILL D&D you no matter how wonderful, smart,gorgeous, educated, well paid, rich/poor, healthy...or have the flu at the moment!...in fact they are even more likely to eventually D&D us at a time we may need them the most! (such as during a 'loss' we may experience...or an injury or illness)...They 'act' like the most loving guy you would ever meet...like they will ALWAYS care about everything about YOU...and that they value you completely...and once they have you deeply involved...they will 'cycle' their behavior & 'feelings' up and down...(roller coastering, one minute they are happy...they next they are distant and critical)...to keep you confused and off-balance. Some of them may seem 'mild' compared to others...but in the end...each of these guys does damage to the person they are in relationship with in many ways. They all share similar twisted ways of thinking and relating and behaving...but may vary in intensity...etc. I think I mentioned this somewherebefore, but look at the story of Christie Brinkley (she is STILL dealing with her EX H-Narc who is currently using the court system and media to D & D her and continue devastating her life)(control)... Also, there is Sandra Bullock, Elizabeth Hurley...and many many other bright, bubbley, talented, wonderful, gorgeous gals...who also had everything going for them...NO one is immune to the damage these guys do (celebrity, status, appearance, position, wealth...it does not matter!)...and YES! They usually go after the very best of us...only later to leave us in taters... it is their modis operandi. You are in good company here! We share such similar experiences to one degree or other... It is NOT your fault what happened. You did nothing wrong to deserve what he did...it is so hard to sort through the lies he told and the facade and dream he captured you with...and figure out the truth. It IS all about HIM! xo
Sep 21 - 12AM (Reply to #20)
cluelessuntilnow
cluelessuntilnow's picture

The Girlfriend

Thanks for your post. I learn so much from others views and posts. My exN D&D'd me when as you wrote "I needed him the most".Just to see your post gave me some comfort.
Sep 16 - 4PM (Reply to #12)
hooklineandsinker
hooklineandsinker's picture

Cheers for the vote of

Cheers for the vote of confidence, GF! I guess I was reading on this site and others long before I actually applied to become a member of it. I know I started this reading sometime in the summer (I was dumped in March) but I can't remember what triggered my wondering whether he was a narc or not. I think it was because a previous guy I dated behaved in a similar fashion (I got the hell out of there after 2 months) and after that breakup a friend of mine suggested that he might be a sociopath since she had had a similar experience herself. I guess I started reading up on this kinda stuff two years ago so was familiar enough with it before now, but just didn't realise that narcissism was an actual pathology in its own right. But even knowing that my latest narc might be the same, it still HURT LIKE ALL HELL to be dumped by him, and traded in for this stupid ugly bitch. There were days I didn't get out of bed; days I didn't leave the apartment; days I just wanted to die. I feel so much better these days and even if he did come crawling back full of apologies and declarations of love, or even friendship, I don't think I would be able to believe a word out of his mouth. I don't mean that I would CHOOSE not to believe him; what I mean is that I have literally lost the ability to believe anything he says, even if I wanted to. It's like learning a language - over time you gradually forget it unless you are using it on a regular basis, to the point where eventually you lose the ability to put a sentence together in that language, no matter how much you want to. I used to imagine him coming back and us both crying with happiness at being reunited but now I think I would just sit across from him and stare coldly at him (the way he did to me on our last meeting) in complete silence and let himself talk himself into the ground. I really don't know what would convince me of his good faith. An engagement ring? Maybe, but that's no proof that he won't leave again or cheat, or just be a lousy partner, or emotionally LIE TO ME for three months by constantly saying "I'm always ok" while in reality seething with silent hatred of me. Him getting me pregnant? Ditto, plus then he'd probably start to use baby fat as an excuse for no sex. Even if he wasn't a narc, even if he was just a regular assclown who took up with someone else very quickly after me, I would have issues with that.
Sep 17 - 8PM (Reply to #19)
faithinthefuture
faithinthefuture's picture

Yeah i remember

those days of hurting like hell! Not being able to function, leave the house, go to work, to have any thought in my head except for HOW THE HELL COULD HE DO THIS?(he cheated on me when he went to his home state 600 miles away for a funeral & came back to me like he did nothing wrong) It wasn't until I read a txt of his to her & questioned him. He told me she was a figment of his imagination and then said they were just friends...he commented about her long sexy legs...words he said to me. I'm 5'8" she's 5'3". Then 1 month later I was told he was with her cuz she was telling everyone. He still denied it! funsize I'm with you. If he told me it was sunny outside I would have to go look and if I ever see him again(I told him to go back home after I found he cheated)I wouldn't believe a single word that came out of his mouth. not even hello! Reading this today gave me so much hope and strength that when I go to see my daughter next month in his town & if I should see him I will ignore him & should he try to talk to me I will look at him with cold empty eyes not say a word and walk away from him. And be thankful he's never to be a part of my life again. Your words helped me today and I just want to say thank you.
Sep 16 - 4PM (Reply to #13)
hooklineandsinker
hooklineandsinker's picture

But wait: if it's all just

But wait: if it's all just about supply, then why do they give a flying fuck what we look like or what our personalities are like?
Sep 20 - 5PM (Reply to #14)
ShaynasMommy
ShaynasMommy's picture

because supply = food

would you rather have a burger and fries or steak tartar and all the gourmet fixin's? besides that, we were all big game supply, which is why a lot of us complain here that our Narcs left us for some dumb ugly bimbo. They can't keep up with the big game for long, so they have to settle for poaching rabbits sometimes.
Sep 20 - 7PM (Reply to #15)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

"The Big Game"

Exactly! It really wears them out with the competition being you and others looking at you. While it makes them feel good to have an attractive woman it also creates alot of anxiety and destabilizes them. When you have constant anxiety and we all know this. You feel tired all the time. Its no different for them. I think thats why alot of have to step back and take a break with someone less attractive so they can recharge their energy without worrying about someone snatching their supply
Sep 22 - 2AM (Reply to #16)
hooklineandsinker
hooklineandsinker's picture

Yeah, your man Sam Vaknin

Yeah, your man Sam Vaknin talks a lot about that - the cycle of frenetic activity with almost catatonic tiredness. Makes sense that they need to recharge from time to time. It's also a comforting thought, that I'm not really that horrendous that he would throw me over for such an ugly bore. It was for a different reason entirely.
Sep 22 - 10AM (Reply to #17)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

Sam Vaknin

I know he is controversial but I think he's dead on. I know he is an N and in true N fashion we are his supply as we voraciously read his stuff in search of answers. He is cerebral and gets off knowing that he holds the answers we need. I do think though that he speaks the truth and he knows it
Sep 24 - 12PM (Reply to #18)
Meadowbrook
Meadowbrook's picture

Sam V

Totally agree about him. My jaw almost dropped to the floor while reading his stuff because it was so dead on. I don't care if I am supply to him. His writings have enlightened me greatly.
Sep 16 - 2PM
Briseis
Briseis's picture

Narcs intend for a hostile

Narcs intend for a hostile take over, every single time. If you do not compy, you will be punished. That covers the ones that go after both confident and unconfident types of victim. They cannot tolerate not being in control, of everything. If they are happy and relaxed, it is because they believe they are in perfect control. If they appear to be loving and affectionate and even compromising, it's because they believe they have the upper hand. Always. That's why that once loving sweetie we first met, and want back so badly, is really a lie. He never existed. He had you right where he wanted you. That's why they act as if nothing happened after a huge abusive episode. They satisfied their need to control you, and there you are, nice and controlled alright, sobbing on the floor, or having sex with him, or going along and pretending nothing happened to you. IMO, Narcs are "partial people". They are missing huge chunks of what it means to be a whole human being. So they clamp on to others and feed like a parasite. They give only enough so that you don't take a medication to worm yourself :D .
Sep 17 - 2AM (Reply to #6)
Alibi_10
Alibi_10's picture

Briseis

This is so true about acting as if nothing happened. I am usually very clear about letting someone know if they overstepped the mark, but ibwas afraid to with him and seemed to revert to being a kid just accepting that it was easier not to kick off myself not to antagonise him. Ultimately it didn't work because he dumped me anyway and that has added to lack of self esteem because you can never have the last word with these people. I am feeling a bit low today and not figured out how to get over this x
Sep 17 - 6AM (Reply to #7)
hooklineandsinker
hooklineandsinker's picture

Alibi, I know exactly what

Alibi, I know exactly what you mean. I am the type to bring things up in a relationship as and when they are arising, and I tend to directly confront people with their bullshit (not in an aggressive way, just raising the issue with them). I did this with mine once over sex, in the early months, I think we had only been together a couple of months, so maybe this time last year. It was a Sunday morning and my roommate, who usually went to his home town at weekends, had decided to stay in the city for the weekend. He had gone out for the day however. My N and I lay in bed talking but he didn't seem to want to do anything sexual, which I thought was very unusual for so early in a relationship - usually you can't keep your hands off each other that early on! I said to him "Do you still want to have sex with me?" He said "What a question for a Sunday morning!" Then he pointed out that I had mentioned that I wasn't altogether comfortable having sex in my bedroom while my roommate was still in the apartment (I am pretty strict about privacy where sex is concerned). I had indeed said this but that feeling was wearing off, and I had come to a decision that as regards me and N being together, my roommate (who'd had a crush on me the previous year and whom I didn't want to upset unnecessarily, and who had been very offhand to N when I first introduced them, to the point of rudeness) would just have to like it or lump it. I got out of bed and checked to see that he was out, and indeed he was, so I came back to bed and we had sex. It did feel as if I'd had to talk N into it though. I also had to say to him "We should be able to discuss anything at any time - what's the fact that it's Sunday morning got to do with it?" He agreed (yeah, right). I've been with guys before where there has been a privacy issue (ie, upstairs in someone's parents' house while the parents are in the house, etc) and they are still much more keen on fooling around rather than just lying there doing nothing, risk or no risk! Anyway, by the time the sex drought came around in Feb of 2010, I really did feel as if I just couldn't bring it up with him at all, in contrast to confronting him in the early days. I know exactly what you mean - I just lost the ability completely to bring things up with him. I was sooooo scared of rocking the boat in any way. It's amazingly subtle, the way they control you, isn't it? It's like this silent censorship that you don't even feel creeping up on you. Ugh.
Sep 18 - 11PM (Reply to #8)
helldweller
helldweller's picture

Alibi and funsize

That was one of the things he deliberately trained me to do: NOT bring up anything. Very early on he made it clear that if I upset him he would walk out and never speak to me again, but I never knew what would upset him, and I never knew when he would just leave me hanging, no matter what our plans were. We had a few incidents where he literally did get up and leave and not talk to me for several days, and here are the things that happened on each occasion that precipitated his leaving: 1. On his fifty-second birthday, while he was over, I laughed and said, lightly, "It's funny. I dated a 52-year-old man briefly when I was twenty-five. I'm glad the age gap is closing a bit in my relationships." I had just opened a sixty dollar bottle of champagne and he got up and left. 2. He goes to Las Vegas three times a year with his brothers for a week at a time. We have never gone anywhere together even overnight. After three years, I told him I was taking my daughters to Las Vegas for three days. Not in a mean way, just matter of factly. We were talking on the phone and he hung up on me. 3. I invited him to a Halloween party which was to be held in an historic courthouse that I thought he'd like to see. I bought him a costume that he agreed to wear, talked about and planned for it every day for a month, then he said, the morning of the party, that he wasn't going. No reason. I was devastated but tried to make the best of it. I got all dressed up in my sexy witch costume, my friends all came over who were driving with me, and I asked him to stop by and see our costumes. He took one look at me and turned and left. He spent the evening by himself at home. 4. We were all having dinner at my place one evening, and sitting around talking after dinner. My ex husband called to find out what time our daughter's parent teacher conference was the next day, and the narc walked out while I was on the phone for one single minute. He didn't talk to me for another week and I later found out that my conversation was "an insult to us." There are about fifty more incidents just like these. I swear, I didn't know which way was up. I couldn't say or do anything at all. We went to dinner once and he sighed, rolled his eyes and slammed down his glass when I asked him how his day was. "Are you going to be talking a lot tonight?" is what he said. I ended up walking home in the snow. As far as actually talking about anything important, it just wasn't acceptable. When I was pregnant, I went over to his house to tell him and he had his brother lie to me that he wasn't home. So I called him and told him over the phone, and he hung up on me because I didn't tell him in person. He punished me by not talking to me for a week, and even went on vacation with his foster child because he was "upset" by the news. When I found out he'd visited a woman on his California trip and slept in the same bed as her, he punished ME for finding out about it and being upset. We were supposed to go to a mutual friend's wedding the day I found out and he refused to go with me. He took his brother instead. Of course, I was the picture of understanding and patience. I sat down with him and held his hands and asked him to talk to me about it truthfully. Well, that is the worst thing you can do to a narc: be wiser, be more sensible, take the higher road. They kill you after that. I remember very clearly thinking, "Don't upset him; he'll leave." I remember that distinctly very early on. It was three years before I realized that nothing I could say could make him leave. It was just him trying to control me.
Sep 19 - 5PM (Reply to #10)
hooklineandsinker
hooklineandsinker's picture

Utter and complete psycho.

Utter and complete psycho. I'm sorry you had the misfortune to meet him.
Sep 19 - 11AM (Reply to #9)
kiwi10
kiwi10's picture

helldweller

what a freaking nightmare!!!!! Did you end the relationship ultimately? good god, thats sounds worse (in some ways) than mine! Mine totally did the leaving and not talking to me thing, though. Also, the punishment for finding out about his cheating or porn episodes.
Sep 16 - 2PM (Reply to #2)
almostlydia
almostlydia's picture

They are the kind of

They are the kind of parasite that kills its host and has to find another to feed on. almostlydia

almostlydia

Sep 16 - 2PM (Reply to #3)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

Only if you let them!

Only if you let them! Unless they tie you up and put you in a dungeon, literally, you have choices :) The one thing we can do, unless we are literally imprisoned, is change ourselves so that we don't host parasites. That means seeing ourselves as valuable enough that we don't have to put up with parasites.
Sep 17 - 2AM (Reply to #4)
girlfriday
girlfriday's picture

Changing so we don't host

Changing so we don't host parasites is so correct and it is working for me already. I will no longer tolerate bad behavior or being suspicious all the time, or entitlement, or confusion or criticism or going Hot and Cold for no reason. Or a lot of other things I used to tolerate. I will not be hosting any of that anymore. And it feels great to have boundaries :-)
Sep 18 - 1AM (Reply to #5)
M
M's picture

strength

I have found through the comments, advice & experiences of the folks on this site.... I have regained the strength to stand up to my xNH. He threatened to sue me for trying to enroll our daughter in a school sponsored councelling program. My old reaction would have been fear-- now it's "bring it on". I am ready to prove how nuts he is. My job is excelling...I have reconnected with respected leaders that kept their distance because of who I had married. His business is failing, he is losing his csr---yet he promises my daughter trips to Alaska, Colorado...and a convertible car. please. Perservere. You will rise above this. Remember we have the ability to learn & grow---they don't. My only sadness is that he will use our daughter--she is young & I pray she will get it & not let him bring her down too.