Briseis & morty, it's that narc soul-rejection that still gives me anxiety attacks...

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#1 Jan 1 - 6PM

Leah

Briseis & morty, it's that narc soul-rejection that still gives me anxiety attacks...

And as I was typing this I was crying...
(I got interrupted by a moving sale visitor an hour ago when I typed this up)

When I get myself wrapped up in busy-ness...then I keep the panic attacks at bay.

Like today, I had another moving sale...kept me distracted.

But when I have a moment to breathe (like an hour ago) and I think of how I thought he loved me...and then the D&D took me by total surprise...and then how he broke up with me in 35 minutes over the phone...and didn't even let me say anything or respond...practically hung up on me.

In those moments...like this moment....the D&D is still fresh...like a mark on me.

I feel so unlovable and...marked. Like the discard put a big 'D' on my chest, and I can't get it off. Like I'm ditched goods. Like something is defective in me.

I know my self-esteem was already an issue pre-narc, but now, post-narc, it's a huge issue...

Being rejected in this way...the pain...the hurt...it never seems to fade for me.

There was no closure, which I know always has to be an inside job for us narced folk.

It's hard for me, because I'm a big communicator. I'm an Aquarius...an air sign... Communication is my thing. And my moon sign is Cancer - communicating FEELINGS is my forte. To not have had the opportunity to do that...to have had that part of me 'stopped' by him...it's awful for me.

When I re-connect to this soul-rejected feeling...it tightens my chest, I get a knot in my gut...it makes me physically ill. And I have this deep feeling of shame. Shame to my core that I feel like I can't wash off.

I know that it's tapping into experiences from when I was a kid, with my BPD mom...but it only seems to get triggered by thinking about how he threw me away.

Like it did right when I was typing this.

I don't know how to make that pain, that soul-rejected feeling...go away.

It's awful.

Any guidance you can offer about how to counter these thoughts & physical reactions would be great.

Hugs of thanks,
Leah

#2 Jan 3 - 7AM

Ava

Hiya Leah, your post has really struck a chord with me

because you are describing exactly what was the worst component of the post narc D&D experience for me. That absolute, utter rejection. And the rejection we feel.... its not just the feeling of being rejected as a partner / wife / girlfriend, not just being rejected as a best friend / close companion - its the feeling of being rejected as a human being. Completely rejected with no inch of even common courtesy, manners or politeness, never mind respect for the relationship & normal adult intimate interactions. Its the narc going from "loving" us & "needing" us so much one minute to not even being bothered to piss on us if we were on fire the next minute. And it often happens in a heartbeat. Your words "soul rejection" really describes it well. And its hell. My ex - who is narc & borderline [with huge abandonment fears & was thus exceptionally clingy] leeched off me for 5 years until I caught him cheating, confronted him & after much crying & begging on his behalf he simply disappeared - walked out of our home, left all his belongings & disappeared. I didn't hear anything from him for over a month [meantime I was in a panic re. where he was] until he finally rang me, told me he'd moved state & moved in with the other woman, how happy he was & that he'd just rung to say hi. The rejection, the shame, the feelings of being absolutely worthless that I felt were almost indescribable. But reading your words - you've pretty much described it to a T. I am SO sorry to read that you are in this place. My heart goes out to you & I'm sending as many hugs as I can. I wanted to let you know firstly that you are not alone in these feelings, and secondly that they do get better. As much as it doesn't feel like it right now - and I know I was certain I'd never be able to process such fundamental feelings of rejection [and mine tie back to family situation also], but I did. And I know you will too - you have such obvious strength, insight & character. I don't know exactly how I started to feel better about that feeling of rejection - I think it was a mixture of things & it was also distance & time. I don't mean to say the cliche "time heals" but the further away from the relationship I got & the longer I was NC; the more the hooks the narc had planted faded away - if that makes any sense. One thing that did really help me though - and this may sound crazy but bear with me! - was communicating to MYSELF. I am also a big communicator & found the lack of closure, the inability to even have the most basic "break-up talk" to be a huge problem for me. I'd find myself sitting on my balcony with a cup of coffee talking to thin air, saying all the things I wanted to say to him. I did that for a long time - go outside & have imaginary conversations with him [probably the best one's I'd ever had with him because I didn't have to listen to his crazy side of the conversation!!]. After a while I gradually stopped talking to him [well, imaginary him] and started talking to myself. That was also around the time I started writing a journal - and mine is structured largely in a conversational manner. It may sound entirely mad but it really has helped me a huge amount. And much of the reading I've done since I started this has made me realise that part of what all that self-talk has been is reconnecting with my "inner self" or "inner child." I realised a large reason I felt so rejected by him was because I'd always rejected myself. Always. And by talking with myself, bonding with myself if you will, I gradually started easing up on the self-rejection, started accepting myself & oh my....even starting to like myself!! It did take months [but I did have a whole stack of free time & energy now that I was no longer emotional, financial & general life carer for the narc] but as a consequence of this communicating & re-connecting with myself, his rejection of me became less & less meaningful. Does any of that make sense? Huge hugs to you Leah. You will get through this - you are such an amazing person & so incredibly better than that man & soon you will begin to feel that :) Ava xxxxoo

Ava

#3 Jan 3 - 8PM (Reply to #34)

Leah

Ava, thanks so much for supporting & sharing

Around the 8 week post-discard mark, I went to a local park every day for a week, when it hadn't turned too cold yet, and had similar conversations with my ex-N...through the ethers, as I say it. I went to a part of the park that was pretty quiet & isolated and talked to him for almost an hour at a time, sometimes more. It was in one of those conversations that I gained the awareness of how crazy and f*kd up he was...I 'said to him,'...."Ex-n, you're just as crazy as my mother...you're completely insane. Wait a minute...you're just like my mom...Ex-N, you ARE crazy..my mother has a personality disorder...YOU have a personality disorder!!! OMG, you have a personality disorder." Then I went straight home & typed into Google: 'partner with personality disorder' and I was floored...his behavior matched up 70-80%. That's when my journey towards awareness began. And a few days later I found this site. Once I move to the Bay Area, I intend to get back into journal writing, and to go walking in parks or hiking to get more intense healing. Everything you said makes sense. Thanks so much for being supportive. This message thread from all of you has been sooooooooooooooo incredibly helpful. I'm lucky my relationship was only 6 months long and long distance. And I'm STILL this upset. I can't imagine how some of you handle the D&D after relationships of several years. You guys are incredibly strong. Hugs, Leah

#4 Jan 2 - 3PM

anonymous

BPD and Soul Rejection

“I know that it's tapping into experiences from when I was a kid, with my BPD mom...but it only seems to get triggered by thinking about how he threw me away. Like it did right when I was typing this. I don't know how to make that pain, that soul-rejected feeling...go away.“ From everything I’ve read, this soul-rejected feeling is, despite being gut-wrenching, very familiar to us – those who were raised by a PD person. Not only have I always felt like I was not quite good enough for my mother (she did this to my dad too and it killed him, literally) ... but my mom also taught me to not only constantly strive for her love but for love (or recognition) from men when it wasn’t appropriate or realistic. I had a crush on a boy from 7th grade to 12th grade. In hindsight it’s totally obvious that he simply wasn’t into me – he liked me well enough as a friend but that was the extent of it. But my mother encouraged me to pursue him. For SIX years – I mean really! A good mom would have said, “honey, I know you really like him but it’s pretty clear that he doesn’t want to go out with you. I know it hurts but it’s ok – you’ll find someone who does.“ Instead, she kept making a big deal out of it - a teeenage crush became a never-ending search for validation under her guidance. She also encouraged me to have inappropriate crushes on boys and later men. One of my teachers in high school (married) had a little thing for me – you could tell. But he never crossed any line or anything. But my mom – she encouraged me – at the age of FOURTEEN to flirt with the guy. She encouraged me to pursue a love that could never be requited. Just like her love. So we seek out relationships with men who will never fully be there for us. Because that’s what we know. That’s what we feel comfortable with. That angst, to us, feels like true love. When in reality, nothing could be further from the truth. I don’t know how to make that pain go away either Leah. The way that seems to work for me is to keep reading. To keep educating myself. And in my case, to not repeat those patterns with my daughter. But I still feel it. I no longer feel the pain of my mom’s rejection. I wrote her off in 2010. The coup de grace was when I was on the floor sobbing over being dumped by the ExN and she said to me, “Face it, Morty, all he was after was your ass.” Something switched off in me and I realized, even while I was hyperventilating over the narc, than my mother was a selfish jerk who would never be there for me. So I wrote her off. Someday, I hope I can do so with the ExN, at least in my mind. I don’t know how but I will keep trying.

#5 Jan 3 - 5PM (Reply to #32)

Susan32

Teacher/Student Soul Rejection

I had been rejected before, in high school, and felt no bitterness over it... but the ex-Psych professor made immature, hormonal high school boys look CIVILIZED in comparison! I told the ex-P that to his face, after the final D&D. Those breakups/rejections in high school were no cause for heartbreak;they were like minor heartburn. They hurt a little, you take some Pepto, then go away. But during the final D&D, it was teacher basically telling his student "You're worthless." I wasn't involved with him in a physical/romantic way. Despite the rumors, he and I never got as far as the bedroom. The soul rejection was far worse than any romantic rejection I've felt before or since. It was because he was in a position of authority and trust. Students NATURALLY trust him. That's why the final D&D was so devastating. I dated a former math tutor of mine;it was ended amicably, and I wish him well. He was a bit stoic and unemotional, but I didn't feel the degree of malice. Some guys just aren't very emotional. The ex-Psych professor showed no common courtesy, no decency during the final D&D, even and especially when a pastor friend of mine died. But I got the coup de grace when I skipped town without telling a soul. I didn't tell him goodbye. When I left town... it was a secret, even to the classmates who stayed behind and the professors I trusted. NONE of them knew. It's like my departure was a taste of his own medicine.

#6 Jan 2 - 11PM (Reply to #31)

Leah

morty, yes, it is a familiar feeling

I have that feeling of deep shame or abandonment all the time. It has to originate with my BPD mom-childhood. And this most recent ex-N really pressed all those buttons. I totally get your mom's inappropriate/abusive behavior. My mother similarly pushed me to wear flirty, sexy clothes when I didn't want to. She was so sick. That angst, to us, feels like true love. When in reality, nothing could be further from the truth. Exactly. I get it intellectually, but emotionally...I have a ways to go. Yes, detaching from my mother took many years, but it's now easy for me. Emotionally detaching from the D&D experience seems to be much tougher for me. Thanks for all your support. Hugs, Leah

#7 Jan 2 - 2PM

anonymous

Communication

“It's hard for me, because I'm a big communicator. I'm an Aquarius...an air sign... Communication is my thing. And my moon sign is Cancer - communicating FEELINGS is my forte. To not have had the opportunity to do that...to have had that part of me 'stopped' by him...it's awful for me.“ I believe that part of what draws the PD to us is the very fact that we are communicators. The upside to being a communicator is that people rely on you to be open and honest. They know that you’re as good as your word and that you don’t lie. The downside is because you are so open and honest, dishonest people with ill intent who have spent a lifetime studying others see your openness and honesty as a way to take advantage of you. I’ve always been told that I have a terrible poker face; that with me, what you see is what you get. And people like me for it. I never leave them questioning my motivations or intentions. The PD is the exact opposite. His motivations and intentions are always hidden, even to himself! But he can easily read yours and he knows your vulnerabilities. This is how he figures out very quickly into the relationship how to take advantage of you and how to discard you. My ExN considers life to be a game and he said that he is always, no matter how manic he acts, thinking of and planning out the endgame. Imagine how it feels to know that your relationship was a game. This relationship that meant so much to me was simply a game to him. He called it a “ride”. As if a woman is a Ferris Wheel and he can choose when to get on and off regardless of her feelings. The fact the you are a great communicator – and I can tell by how well you write that you are without ever having met you face to face – is just one of the many examples why he was the wrong person for you. He would have never, ever given you the trust or respect that you deserve to communicate his feelings or intentions with you. He doesn’t believe that he has to. A relationship to him is not something built on mutuality – the mutual desire to share feelings, motivations, goals, intentions. A relationship to him is a one-way street and will always be a dead-end. Just as you will never get closure from him, you would have never, ever received open and honest communication. In his mind, communication means him saying the lines that he’s memorized depending on what Act he’s on in the Drama called his life.

#8 Jan 2 - 11PM (Reply to #29)

Leah

morty, that really asks me to remember who he is

Yeah, he liked to talk and seemed to love to listen...but he rarely had anything to reflect back to me. Because I'm quite a talker, I could go on for a while, sharing how my day went. He'd listen, but wouldn't have much emotional reflection or support to share. He was always really practical & analytical, which confused me. He admitted early on in the relationship that he had a lot of trouble knowing what he was feeling, and even more trouble expressing his feelings. I actually think he had some awareness of his limitations, but didn't see them as part of being disordered. And he seemed to think they weren't bad traits. He didn't do anything about them. Yeah, he was the wrong guy for me. I was always the articulator, and he was the one who quoted - Yoda (yes, from Star Wars), the Catholic Church...etc. I don't think he understood that his inability to identify and articulate his feelings really meant he wasn't participating in the relationship. Yeah, he was often passive-aggressive, even when I didn't sense it in the moment. So he was always lying to himself, essentially. I really need to 'get' this...I really need to accept this reality. Hugs, Leah

#9 Jan 2 - 2PM

anonymous

Closure

“There was no closure, which I know always has to be an inside job for us narced folk.“ Besides the feelings of rejection and destroyed self-esteem, having no closure has probably been one of the most difficult aspects of the failed relationship with the ExN. Mine carried it a bit further and purposely left the door open to the possibility of a resumed relationship once my daughter was grown but in the meantime wanted to be *best friends*. This is the epitome of treating another person like an appliance. Use them for what you want at the moment but keep the parts you don’t want on a shelf. He wanted me to stay on the shelf for him so that if he decided I had something he wanted again, I’d be sitting there ready to be plugged in. Again, this is part of their M.O. This is what PD people do. They will never give closure. So, again, you have to twist this around in your mind. You have to make the closure yourself. How do you make the closure? In a way that works for you but all the while knowing you’ll never, ever receive it from him. And even if you did..... what could he tell you that you don’t already know? That he’s messed up and that’s why he acted the way he did? You know this. That he’s a jerk and lured you in to use you and then dumped you because you no longer interested him? You know this. That he has *mommy* issues? That’s he’s borderline? Whatever the answer is (and it’s not one answer – it’s a combination of all of the things you already know) – he cannot give you the answer. They say that victims of PDs know the PDs better than they know themselves and I completely believe this. I’m quite sure I’ve figured out my ExN and my mother more than they’ll ever figure themselves out. Part of the disorder is an utter lack of the ability to be honest with themselves. They are delusional when it comes to themselves and how fake and transparent they are. I see this with my mom all the time. Rather than focus on lamenting why he didn’t give you closure – figure out for yourself what will give you closure. It will take a while (I“m still not there). But you must find it within yourself because you will never, ever be given that gift from him.

#10 Jan 2 - 11PM (Reply to #27)

Leah

Yes morty, not getting closure had been soooooo hard for me

I'm a big believer in reconciliation, mediation...conflict resolution. I would NEVER, EVER... - JUST WALK AWAY FROM A PERSON with a 35-minute 'breakup call' that explains what the other person did to ruin the relationship - not take responsibility for my part - not let my partner share & reflect - not take an approach of problem-solving - not see an opportunity for healing & growth & possible relationship continuation - yell at the person you're breaking up with because she insecurely asked a question I just can't imagine what's in their minds to enable them to act that way. I do need to figure out what will give me closure. It might restore my equilibrium. I still feel knocked over by the D&D. Thanks so much morty. Hug, Leah

#11 Jan 2 - 1PM

Hunter

Leah

I sit hear reading and my thoughts, BS,BS,BS. Like you I had a long distance relationship with my N I had no reason to believe he was going to do what he did to me. There were some strange things, I do strange things.He treated me like a queen up till the minute I left He held me so tight he didn't want to let go. He was never mean or rude when I was him. He included me in all activities with his friends. The day i arrived back home was when he started his D&D. I never saw it coming. My mom is a nuts as yours. Its taken 43 years to deal with her. I can now easily toss her off. Don't blame yourself. The D&D is part of their disorder and let me tell you, Its been 6 months and I still hear is vicious word in the middle of the night. Be strong Idealk

#12 Jan 2 - 11PM (Reply to #24)

Leah

IdealK

My ex-N's words echo through my brain all the time. It's like the 1st time I heard them...they still resonate so strongly. Wow, you have a PD'd mom too. Yeah, I don't take sh*t from my mother, either. But the ex-N got in under my radar...and I wasn't prepared or protected. I long for the day when I forget his voice and the way he spoke to me those final 3 weeks. The D&D is like a recurring nightmare for me. I'm trying to be strong. Hugs, Leah

#13 Jan 3 - 7AM (Reply to #25)

Hunter

Leah

You're doing ok. I thought I was . I think this Holiday has caused a set back. We get it. I guess we wait for that switch. I hope you are doing ok other wise. Hugs ME

#14 Jan 2 - 1PM

anonymous

Scarlet N

“But when I have a moment to breathe (like an hour ago) and I think of how I thought he loved me...and then the D&D took me by total surprise...and then how he broke up with me in 35 minutes over the phone...and didn't even let me say anything or respond...practically hung up on me. In those moments...like this moment....the D&D is still fresh...like a mark on me. I feel so unlovable and...marked. Like the discard put a big 'D' on my chest, and I can't get it off. Like I'm ditched goods. Like something is defective in me.“ I understand. I too have felt this way and still do sometimes. But when thoughts like this overwhelm you, try to twist your thinking around. You’ll have to play a little imaginary game with yourself. Try to twist it around so that you were the person doing the dumping. If you were dating someone and you decided for yourself that the relationship wasn’t going to work out, how would you have handled it? Would you have continuously told the person you were dating a bunch of flattering, false stuff just to keep them hooked, all the while having serious negative thoughts about the viability of the relationship, only to keep those thoughts to yourself? And then would you have all of a sudden, without common courtesy, just summarily dumped the other person without discussion? I doubt it. What he did to you is called betrayal. You had no idea a decision about your relationship was even being contemplated, never mind already made. If you were dating someone and you started to have doubts, I suspect you would have told the other person that things were bothering you and that you guys needed to talk about it. And if not that, at least, you would have not continued to false flatter the person, blow smoke up his butt and keep him hooked until the moment you decided to discard him. You would have been DECENT and RESPECTFUL – not manipulative and deceitful. So rather than thinking of yourself as the *marked* person – think of him as the the one who has the stigma. He is the one who is marked. He is defective. Plainly, he’s a jerk to have strung you along and then treat you like crap once his lordship decided you were no longer useful. You don’t have a scarlet D on your chest. He has a scarlet N on his.

#15 Jan 2 - 11PM (Reply to #22)

Leah

Wow...two things stand out to me, morty

1) He did give me a lot of signs as the D&D intensified. I just didn't pay attention to them...so the discard took me by surprise, but in reality, he had been dropping hints for weeks. Before I visited him, I mentioned how it would be great if the visit confirmed my feelings for him. He said that that was what he was afraid of. He reminded me that we had only spent one week in person together & three months on the phone... So funny, because that's what I had reminded him earlier on in the relationship, when he was asking me to move in with him & to drop my life here. At this point we were at the 5-month mark, and it didn't make sense to me. Why would he have spoken with me every night on the phone for over five months, if he didn't still have feelings for me??? Why did he let me visit him if he had already lost interest (which he confessed on the breakup call)? So there were signs, but there were mixed signals...nothing was clear to me then. But in retrospect, he had been unconsciously dropping hints all along...I just didn't pick up on them 2) He was a jerk because he never told me what made him angry or resentful...bottled it up for months...let it change his feelings for me...then spilled it all in the breakup call, leaving no option for 'repair'. He was a NON-communicator, essentially. I feel better with him wearing the scarlet letter, than me. That's a better arrangement. Many hugs, Leah

#16 Jan 2 - 1PM

anonymous

Leah - You are amazing

There's so much here in what you've written that sounds like me. I know that I sound strong; like I have it all together. But I'm just as hurt as you are. And it's been 14 months since I was dumped. That being said - I think that I have the perspective of distance and time on my side. You don't have that yet. That isn't to say I totally have all of this down - I don't. But I am much less prone to cognitive dissonance than I was even three months ago. And I am becoming stronger and stronger every day in my conviction that, rather than giving credence to anything the narc said, on the contrary, all of what he said was crazy-making. And I am determined that I will not become what he is - crazy. My mother is crazy. I see the pattern. I know why I was attracted. I want more for myself than to be a younger version of my mother. I'm going to try to reply to some of the other posts you wrote.... might take me a little bit of time. But writing to you helps me just as much as it helps you. (((Leah)))

#17 Jan 2 - 11PM (Reply to #20)

Leah

morty, thanks for all your words

It means a lot to me. Hugs, Leah

#18 Jan 2 - 5AM

Scoop

It is gob smacking the way

It is gob smacking the way they discard , and for a while it makes you feel terrible because it turns youre world on its head , what you thought to be true is a lie and that messes with reality , the good news is that through no contact the real reality comes back , not over night but slowly the ajustment is made and through time the terrible feelings and the panic dies down and stops then you see what a nasty little parisite you where dealing with . I know we keepp saying it here but ill say it again you CAN NOT let a disordered person define you . Heres a story of one of my d&d , we woke up in the morning after a lovely night where he was telling me how amazing i was and how he wanted to have children with me and what would we call them etc etc , we spent the morning in bed where he made a romantic breakfast and i had the feeling of walking on air . ......scratch the record ! but lunch time he told me "this isnt working Scoop , i dont love you i think we should be friends , could you go home now " . So i went home head spinning , crying ,panic stricken , sick to my stomach . The nexy morning there where photos on his face book page of the party he went to that night with him laughing and joking and having a lovely time !.It is mind bending behaviour , the only time you get this behaviour is with a disordered person it is emotional rape and it takes alot of getting over , read all you can about the subject, keep posting and talking as it is the way out of the feelings you have now , we are all here for you and understand what you feel .. Big Love and hugs xx

#19 Jan 2 - 12PM (Reply to #17)

Leah

Scoop, thanks so much for being supportive

It's funny, because a day or 2 ago, I posted about really understanding that my most recent ex-N, and all the other narcs in my history, are just like my BPD mom. It was all so clear to me. Then New Year's Eve...me packing to get ready to move...some people who reminded me of most recent ex-N... And all my awareness was temporarily suspended & the kick-in-the-gut feeling from D&D returned. Today I'm going to focus on remembering that he's just like my mother. I don't give her any credence or validity. I have to remember my 'aha' moment - he doesn't deserve any credence or validity either. *deep breath* Thanks so much scoop. Hugs, Leah

#20 Jan 2 - 3PM (Reply to #18)

anonymous

Remember the Bad along with the Good

Yes, he doesn't deserve validity or credence from you. One way to try to get over the longing is whenever you find your mind wandering to the good times, force yourself to remember the bad as well. I'm pretty sure you have just as many bad memories - red flags, a-ha moments, as you do good. Force yourself to remember them to nip that sad longing in the bud.

#21 Jan 2 - 12AM

Journey

Hi Leah

Maybe some of your anxiety is the move itself. The pain revolves, it comes and goes, it needs to pass through to go away I think. From what I read in your response to Michele, you are being very hard on yourself. Feeling so responsible for affecting him. You question if behaving differently would have made him less narc-like. I think the answer to that is it might have extended or changed the relationship somehow, but he'd still be a narc, so it would still end up hurting you. Thank goodness you got out relatively early. It could have been much worse if the relationship didn't end when it did. Maybe you can celebrate yourself instead, that your instincts were in overdrive and made you feel so insecure to be too much work for him. That sounds harsh, sorry, but just think if he took you down a five year road or longer, wearing you down more and more just because you started from a stronger place within. That is what happened to a lot of others here. In that regard your vulnerability saved you from a more complete destruction of your life itself. I hope you can see these feelings of panic and pain will tone down at some point. When do you move? That will probably help in several ways that might be hard to imagine at this moment. It is a new year, you'll have a new home and you can build a new self that is strong in esteem from out of the ashes with the knowledge you are gaining now. Remember, this too shall pass! Hugs! Journey on...

Journey on...

#22 Jan 2 - 10PM (Reply to #15)

Leah

Hi Journey, I thought I posted a reply last night to you...

But I stayed up so late, it's possible my memory is faulty. Maybe you can celebrate yourself instead, that your instincts were in overdrive and made you feel so insecure to be too much work for him. That sounds harsh, sorry, but just think if he took you down a five year road or longer, wearing you down more and more just because you started from a stronger place within. Those words really help me to see it in a different light. I've kept thinking that if I were stronger, then he would have been inspired to change or seek healing. You're reminding me that he wouldn't have changed, and the end result would have been the same. I'm moving on Jan. 16th. Maybe the move will help. Journey, thanks so much for your support. Hugs, Leah

#23 Jan 1 - 10PM

michele115 (not verified)

Leah

Pain is pain, and when the pain not only comes from an experience with a Narc, but is also deeply rooted from childhood, my experience was that the Narc situation triggered ALL of it - and that is why I think I spiraled down as far as I did. There is no easy answer - but what worked best for me and it took time was to really accept the facts for what they are. The fact is, in my case, the Narc was personality disordered. Whatever type he has - because yes, I too got into is it Bi-Polar, Borderline, ASPD - the whole damn gamut and the truth is it does not matter what he is specifically he's Personality Disordered and he falls under that umbrella period! Next, I had to understand and accept that there is not changing it, and to a certain degree - he may or may not be able to understand what he did/does but ruminating on it over and over and over after a certain point TOOK AWAY from me. I'm not saying to stop yourself - because doing that is part of the process. You almost have to overdose on the information then at a certain point you just get tired and say "I don't give a crap" what he is, what about ME??? I have found the same thing has happened in relationship to my mother. I understand you have already cut ties to a certain degree - I'm going through that process now, not sure if it will be a complete surgial removal but working on setting up boundaries and learning not to let her confer with the committee IN MY HEAD. Before we were destroyed by this type of abuse, we started out whole...innocent, good, not jaded...and no, we can't walk through life with the innocence of a child - but it is a matter of finding our place because for so long, we were forced into molds that did not nurture our natures, so we're left wondering who we are - what is reasonable, what isn't in terms of bondaries. These things messed with our self esteem and so we feel like we're on shaky ground, and it's a process to try to find that center and that balance. I'm not sure that if even in the healthiest of people, *not that we're not healthy but we need healing...that they too from time to time go through this because we are constantly changing and evolving - our needs and desires change. If you could step outside of yourself for a minute, you could see that those around you are disordered, it's not you...yes, we all have quirks but I suspect the fact that we found ourselves in this situation is a symptom of what we've gone through from our upbringing. From what I read in your posts, you have a lot of insight. Statistically, these narcs don't go for "losers" so obviously we're not losers...they do go for the best and the brightest because they love the challenge of destroying - SO...you do have all the assets and so there is no need to doubt yourself although that message is very ingrained in our minds. Everybody has a place and a purpose in this world, but it is hard to find that when the mind is cluttered with so much other garbage - and it is garbage. Toxic garbage. Getting back to stepping outside of yourself - if you could you would objectively be able to see that there isn't a darn thing wrong with you and if there are some things you feel need improvement - a little tweaking is all that is needed. THE MINDSET. The reality is, we were never born to CLEAVE to anyone. Nothing was ever guaranteed. We are individuals with our own missions in life to fulfill. I think the key is finding that core essence and being true to ourselves and living OUR truth. I think the biggest challenge in all of this has been that ingrained habit by experience to constantly be molded to live according to what others think. To react to what others expect, to only feel valuable when others "validate" us because we've never learned how to validate ourselves. In a sense, we were taught this was "selfish" and that is such a BAD thing...look at how much in an uproar we are about the damn narcs being selfish! AND yea, they are lousy for being so SELFISH BUT there is a distinction in being selfish or using it at a tool in order to get back to SELF in order to heal. I think momentarily, with as much passion as the Narcs make it all about them - it now until we find our way has to be all about US. That is why, to a certain extent I feel it will take 18 months or longer because if you're in the selfish phase, you can't really be ideal to anyone. I do believe there is room for discernment, as you wouldn't be "SELFISH" with a good friend - but if you are in the process of setting boundaries, yea things might get hazy and hectic. It's almost like going to the other extreme for a time to find the "average"...does that make sense? To find the middle. When dealing with averages, let's say you have three 20's on a test. You can't pull 65's and expect to pass, you have to go to the extreme and pull 100's in order to level it out - in order to get to the middle to the 70's or 80's. That's the best way I can describe it. I believe we have to drown out the noise of all those messages. The narcs actions sent a message: You are not worth, you are unlovable, you are whatever...AND it isn't true. The message is coming from a Personality Disordered invidividual. The message also came from our upbringing and so to us this is our truth no matter how much we try to fight it. BUT it's CRAP...it's a LIE...it's a LIE!!!! Little by little, I think it's a good idea to take inventory of all the good qualities and capitalize on them. AND there are good qualities in each of us. Skills, abilities, talents. All of us were given special tools to get through life...we have to find them. Our minds take us wherever we want to go. The mind is powerful. I posted something on another post - no one really looked at it, but I'm going to post it here and I want you to think about it some. The background to this is in a posting entitled: A very important message... Remember to give yourself an awesome day; receive all your thoughts, feelings with compassion! “You can’t disappoint another human being. And another human being can’t disappoint you. You tell the story of how someone is not giving you what you want, and you disappoint you. If you want something from your mother and she says no, that’s it. You need to give it to yourself. This is good news, because it allows you to get what you want. If you don’t have her to help you, you have you to help you. If she says no, it leaves you.” ~Byron Katie If *you* are responsible for *my* happiness, I lose/become a victim. (I am scr#$%d) The ability to find happiness has to come from ourselves. No one can complete us, nor can we complete another. We have a responsibility to ourselves to fill ourselves. I believe once we face this fundamental truth, the experience with the narc and all the distress will take on a lesser weight. As long as we are hung up on what he did to us and how he hurt us, the longer we put off doing the work on ourselves. Yes, it is painful - but Shortway said the other day and it is so true...in a sense, clinging to the pain is a form of not letting go. Letting go is a process, it doesn't happen overnight and yes, I still feel pain too - but my mind is in another direction. I wrote on by FB page, that although I still feel pain, I will not use it as a tool to cause destruction *to me...instead I will use it as a vehicle for inspiration. In other words, I will use that pain as fuel, to move away, as a trigger to fight to find my place...to shape it into something that can be beautiful despite what it has done. Use the pain to fuel your passion to dismissing those negative thoughts and feelings. When those bad feelings and thoughts start creeping in, fight them...expose the LIE. I hope this was helpful...in some way shape or form. Depression, anxiety all those things are nature's way of telling you something has to change. That something could be something as simple as your thinking. You can't control or change people, but we can always control and change ourselves and how we react to them. Hugs.

#24 Jan 2 - 3PM (Reply to #12)

anonymous

Getting Selfish

"That is why, to a certain extent I feel it will take 18 months or longer because if you're in the selfish phase, you can't really be ideal to anyone. I do believe there is room for discernment, as you wouldn't be "SELFISH" with a good friend - but if you are in the process of setting boundaries, yea things might get hazy and hectic." This is really well-put Michele. I'm struggling with this now and have been for the past 6 months or so. As you probably recall, I'm still with my husband and I've been doing all of the work on myself. Which has led to the haziness and hecticness that you describe. And he doesn't appreciate it. I think once the ExN dumped me, my husband conveniently forgot that we were separated and that the marriage was pretty much over except for our daughter. I think he expected me to cry for a bit and then turn around and re-seek validity from him. But that didn't happen. And he hates it. And so do I. But I'm not going to give in. I'm going to continue doing this work until I learn how to seek and receive validity from myself. And if others, including him, like what they see and can deal with a Morty who doesn't just go around taking care of and pleasing everyone anymore, then great. And if he can't deal with it, oh well.

#25 Jan 2 - 10PM (Reply to #13)

Leah

Morty & Michele, you're so strong

You both inspire me. Hugs, Leah

#26 Jan 1 - 11PM (Reply to #2)

Leah

Michele, I really hear you, and yet I feel like I have

a mountain to climb in changing myself. I really want to change. And I know I need deep changes. So I do want to turn that energy onto myself. I agree that I need to focus on myself. You are right - the people around me arre personality disordered, and in some sense it's not about me. They are crazy. But in another sense it is about me - I draw them in & am attracted to them. Unconsciously, I am drawn to them like a moth to a flame. And then I allow them to abuse me while I stare at them like a deer in headlights. And then I wonder why I'm being abused. I actually invite the abuse. I ask to be stepped on. Tonight I had dinner with an old friend, who I hadn't seen in a year. When I told her about the relationship with most recent ex-N, she pointed out that I was passive. She said that I had enabled him. She pointed out: 1) Because I was passive, it made him more angry, because I didn't stand up for myself. 2) If I had been conscious & aware, I wouldn't have stayed with him, because he had crossed my boundaries. I felt the truth in her words. In the presence of ex-N's boundary-crossing behavior...I invited that violation...tolerated it...and never said a word to him about it. I never told him I felt hurt or violated. Not once. I think on some level his anger was a way of saying, 'Hey, if you can't stand up for yourself, then you're not the strong woman I thought you were. Where is that strong woman that I fell in love with?' So my question to myself...after 7 or 8 narc relationships in my life (the ONLY relationships I've ever had)...is... Where am I? Why do I shrink in the presence of anger? Why don't I say what I need? Why don't I set boundaries with my partner? Why do I act like a scared 5-year-old when a man crosses my boundaries? Why do I freeze up when I feel violated or not respected? Part of the answer is - I grew up with a PD'd parent. But I'm almost 38 years old. I can't keep using that as an excuse. I have to grow up and be present for myself. Maybe the narc was a narc, but I wonder if his narcness would have been in such high gear if I had not been so passive and doormat-like. I feel like I need to take responsibility for my part - I was passive...I asked him to walk all over me. And he knew it, and couldn't respect me. And now I don't respect me. Every narc sensed the same thing in me...this passivity. - A narc I lived with cheated on me, right at the beginning of our relationship...and I took him back. He then left me a few months later. - A narc I briefly dated pegged me as an easy lay...I foolishly invited him up to my apt...he practically raped me...which I totally permitted, even though I could've asked him to leave my apt. - A narc that I had an affair with (he was married)...after several years he just disappeared for weeks, simply because he felt like it'd be ok, since I was so accepting and forgiving. - A narc...my 1st love in high school/college...I let him walk all over me. - Another narc insisted on doing things he wanted to do on my birthday. I gave in and resented my birthday. I should've done what I wanted. No one will respect me unless I respect myself. Personality disordered or not, they smell fear a mile a way. If I welcome abuse, I get abused. If I make myself a target, then I am a willing target. I am disgusted by my passivity. I'm ashamed of this child-like, passive girl I've been in relationships for the past 20 years of my life. It's embarrassing. I'm not proud of this passive woman I've become. Michele, thanks for being so incredibly supportive and for sharing so much wisdom. I hear you - I need to focus on myself. When I do, I'm not happy with who I am, who I see. I have a long road ahead of me. A very long road. And I'm so sad that I wasn't strong in all those relationships. I never showed those men my strength. That's my part of the equation. And I'll always wonder if they would have been less narcky if I had really stood in my power...if they would have changed or responded to my strength. Now I'll never know. : / Thanks as always for listening. Hugs, Leah

#27 Jan 2 - 1AM (Reply to #8)

michele115 (not verified)

Leah

I had to cut and paste cause there is a lot here girl...I will reply in caps to what you wrote... a mountain to climb in changing myself. WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT LIKE THAT - IT WILL SEEM IMPOSSIBLE. MOREOVER - I WANT YOU TO THINK CAREFULLY ABOUT WHAT CHANGES YOU THINK YOU HAVE TO MAKE. RIGHT NOW YOUR THINKING IS DISTORTED BECAUSE OF THE HEAD TRIP - WHEREAS THE CHANGE MAY BE MORE ABOUT ACCEPTING WHERE YOU'VE BEEN THROUGH WITH ABUSE AND LEARNING WHO YOU ARE - NOT NECESSARILY CHANGING WHO YOU ARE, BUT LEARNING TO ACCEPT WHO YOU ARE. CHANGING INTO SOMEONE THAT ISN'T YOU IS NOT KEY HERE AND FOR ME I GOT TRIPPED UP ALSO AT TIMES THINKING OF CHANGE IN TERMS OF HOW TO BE IDEAL FOR SOMEONE ELSE - THE FOCUS NEEDS TO BE IN ACCEPTING LEAH WITH ALL HER QUIRKINESS, FOIBLES AND FAULTS AND BEING OKAY WITH THEM, BEING CONFIDENT IN THEM AND ONLY CHANGING THOSE THINGS LEAH DOES NOT LIKE, NOT THOSE THINGS OTHERS DO NOT LIKE - IT'S ABOUT PLEASING YOU, AND ACCEPTING YOU. ONE OF THE THINGS YOU MENTIONED WAS BEING PASSIVE - SO PICK ONE GOAL...FOR EXAMPLE: PRACTICING, AND READING AND LEARNING HOW TO BE MORE ASSERTIVE - WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY DIFFERENT FROM AGGRESSIVE. I really want to change. And I know I need deep changes. So I do want to turn that energy onto myself. I agree that I need to focus on myself. DEEP CHANGES, AGAIN WILL TAKE TIME, BUT IN MY OPINION, THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE IS ACCEPTING WHO LEAH IS AND FINDING WHAT MAKES HER TOES TWINKLE. But in another sense it is about me - I draw them in & am attracted to them. Unconsciously, I am drawn to them like a moth to a flame. And then I allow them to abuse me while I stare at them like a deer in headlights. And then I wonder why I'm being abused. I actually invite the abuse. I ask to be stepped on. STOP!! YOU NEED TO START ADDRESSING THIS AS PAST TENSE. YOU DREW THEM IN, YOU WERE ATTRACTED TO THEM, YOU allowED THEM...THIS IS NO LONGER BECAUSE NOW YOU ARE AWARE. Tonight I had dinner with an old friend, who I hadn't seen in a year. When I told her about the relationship with most recent ex-N, she pointed out that I was passive. She said that I had enabled him. She pointed out: 1) Because I was passive, it made him more angry, because I didn't stand up for myself. 2) If I had been conscious & aware, I wouldn't have stayed with him, because he had crossed my boundaries. I felt the truth in her words. YOU MAY HAVE FELT TRUTH IN HER WORDS, BUT TO A CERTAIN DEGREE, I THINK WE NEED TO ADDRESS HER OPINION. FIRST: YES, IT MAY HAVE MADE HIM ANGRY, BUT SO WHAT - WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A PDI...I DO HAVE A FEAR THAT WHEN YOU HEAR THE WORDS YOU MADE HIM ANGRY...THE RUMINATIONS BEGAN..."OH IF I DIDN'T THAN MAYBE"...DISMISS! DELETE! DISCARD! THOSE THOUGHTS...YES, HE GOT ANGRY CAUSE HE'S SICK. MOREOVER, WHATEVER YOU DID ENABLE HIM OR NOT, IT WASN'T YOUR FAULT THAT AT THE TIME YOU DIDN'T HAVE THE AWARENESS YOU DO TODAY. In the presence of ex-N's boundary-crossing behavior...I invited that violation...tolerated it...and never said a word to him about it. I never told him I felt hurt or violated. Not once. I think on some level his anger was a way of saying, 'Hey, if you can't stand up for yourself, then you're not the strong woman I thought you were. Where is that strong woman that I fell in love with?' AND, ON THESE TWO PARAGRAPHS...WHY ARE YOU GIVING CREDENCE TO SOMEONE WHO SUFFERS FROM A PDI? So my question to myself...after 7 or 8 narc relationships in my life (the ONLY relationships I've ever had)...is... Where am I? Why do I shrink in the presence of anger? Why don't I say what I need? Why don't I set boundaries with my partner? Why do I act like a scared 5-year-old when a man crosses my boundaries? Why do I freeze up when I feel violated or not respected? YOU DO THESE THINGS BECAUSE YOU WERE EMOTIONALLY ABUSED AS A CHILD AND NEVER LEARNED. THE TRUTH IS THAT PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT GONE THROUGH THIS TRUAMA CAN'T FIGURE OUT WHY AND HAVE ALL THESE OPINIONS; HOWEVER, IT'S OUR PARENTS JOB TO TEACH US THINGS, NURTURE US, GIVE US SOME SECURITY. WHEN THAT WAS NOT PROVIDED AND YOU LEARN HOW TO WALK ON EGGSHELLS, THAT IS "NORMAL" AND SO THAT IS HOW YOU GO THROUGH LIFE...BUT NOW YOU ARE AWARE. THESE THINGS THAT HAVE HAPPENED WERE NOT YOUR FAULT...NEVER WERE AND YOU HAVE TO COMFORT AND NURTURE AND LOVE THAT BRUISED INNER CHILD. Part of the answer is - I grew up with a PD'd parent. But I'm almost 38 years old. I can't keep using that as an excuse. YOU COULD BE 90 YEARS OLD LEAH, ITS NOT AN EXCUSE IT IS WHAT IT IS, BUT NO MATTER HOW OLD YOU ARE, THERE IS ALWAYS ROOM TO HEAL - BUT YOU NEED TO STOP ABUSING YOURSELF FURTHER, AND BEAT YOURSELF FURTHER. IT WILL TAKE TIME, BUT YOU HAVE TO GIVE YOURSELF SOME SLACK - YOU WERE POWERLESS. NOW YOU ARE AWARE, AND YOU HAVE THE INTENTIONS OF HEALING - YOU ARE NOT WALLOWING, YOU ARE WORKING VERY VERY VERY HARD TO UNDERSTAND - SO WHY ARE YOU BEATING YOURSELF UP??? DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH COURAGE AND STRENGTH IT TAKES TO FACE THOSE DAMN DEMONS?...JESUS! LEAH, YOU DESERVE LOVE, VALIDATION, COMFORT, SUPPORT...AND YOU ARE SEEKING IT, AND YOU ARE GETTING IT HERE - WE LOVE YOU, WE CARE ABOUT YOU...AND IT MAY SOUND LIKE B.S. BUT IN REALITY IT'S NOT...TO SHARE WITH PEOPLE YOUR INNERMOST FEARS, DOUBTS, FEELINGS OF DESPAIR AND NOT BE JUDGED BUT UNDERSTOOD - I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING ELSE THAT DOES NOT DEMONSTRATE "LOVE"...LOVE CAN TAKE MANY FORMS...AND IT'S NOT ABOUT ONE UPPING ONE ANOTHER HERE...LEAH, YOU ARE TAKING THE WALK AND IT'S SCARY...WHAT ELSE COULD YOU BE EXPECTED TO DO?? DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE CHOOSE TO LIVE FALSE LIVES AND LIVE THE FACADE AND SUFFER IN SILENCE NEVER TO ACTUALLY FACE ALL THAT IS DYSFUNCTIONAL? DO YOU REALIZE HOW MUCH COURAGE WHAT YOU ARE DOING TAKES? THE NARC DAMN SURE COULD NOT STAND UP TO THE CHALLENGE - LOOK AT THAT?...ALL HE COULD DO IS RUN! AND PLAY A HEAD GAME WHEN THREATENED BY YOUR STRENGTH...HE HAD TO SMELL IT!...PLEASE LEAH, SEE ALL THAT YOU ARE...THAT YOU SURVIVED - THAT YOU DIDN'T KILL YOURSELF, OR TURN TO DRUGS OR DO SOME REALLY MAJOR HARM TO YOURSELF BECAUSE OF YOUR ABUSE...DO YOU REALIZE THE LENGTHS SOME PEOPLE GO TO IN ORDER TO ESCAPE PAIN???...PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE ACCEPT THAT YOU ARE SO DAMN STRONG TO BE DEALING WITH THIS AND ASKING THE TUFF QUESTIONS AND FACING YOUR FEARS, AND EXPRESSING THEM, AND TO SEEK HELP AND ADVICE... Maybe the narc was a narc, but I wonder if his narcness would have been in such high gear if I had not been so passive and doormat-like. HE'D BE A NARC NO MATTER WHAT! I feel like I need to take responsibility for my part - I was passive...I asked him to walk all over me. WELL, THE TAKING OF RESPONSIBILITY IS ONE THING BUT WHEN YOU DO - YOU NEED TO TAKE IT IN THE FORM OF ALSO UNDERSTANDING THAT BECAUSE OF THE CONDITIONING YOU RECEIVED AS A CHILD AND THROUGH OTHER EXPERIENCES, YOU DID NOT KNOW ANY BETTER AND SO YOU NEED NOT PUNISH YOURSELF OR BEAT YOURSELF UP, BUT BE AWARE AND ACCEPT THAT YOU ARE NOW GOING TO GROW AND LEARN FROM ALL THAT YOU ARE SO FORTUNATE TO SEE, REALIZE AND EXPERIENCE NOW...SO THAT YOU CAN FIX THOSE THINGS YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH AND FEEL BETTER IN YOUR SKIN, AND MOVE FORWARD FEELING GOOD NO MATTER WHAT....HAD WE NOT GONE THROUGH THIS, SUCH ENLIGHTENMENT MAY NOT EVER HAVE TAKEN PLACE! And he knew it, and couldn't respect me. HE CAN'T RESPECT ANYONE!!! NO ONE IS SPECIAL TO A NARC!!! And now I don't respect me. Every narc sensed the same thing in me...this passivity. STOP! STOP! STOP! - YOU ARE NOT ANY MORE "PERFECT" THAN ANY ONE OF US....THAN ANY VICTIM OF ABUSE!!!...YOU HAD BETTER START RESPECTING YOURSELF EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY...NO ONE IS IMMUNE TO BEING A VICTIM...FEW WILL CHOOSE TO STAND FIRM IN THE FACE OF RESISTANCE AND CHOOSE TO BE A SURVIVOR. YOU AND THE LADIES ON THIS BOARD AND ELSEWHERE, ARE WORKING ON THAT...THAT DOES WARRANT A HUGE AMOUNT OF RESPECT! NARCS AND ABUSERS ON THE OTHER HAND ONLY KNOW HOW TO ABUSE AS A RESULT OF THEIR SCREWEDUPTEDNESS...AND THIS IS WHAT WE ARE AGONIZING OVER...WEAK, PATHETIC, MENTALLY ILL, DIABOLICAL CREATURES? - A narc I lived with cheated on me, right at the beginning of our relationship...and I took him back. He then left me a few months later. - A narc I briefly dated pegged me as an easy lay...I foolishly invited him up to my apt...he practically raped me...which I totally permitted, even though I could've asked him to leave my apt. - A narc that I had an affair with (he was married)...after several years he just disappeared for weeks, simply because he felt like it'd be ok, since I was so accepting and forgiving. - A narc...my 1st love in high school/college...I let him walk all over me. - Another narc insisted on doing things he wanted to do on my birthday. I gave in and resented my birthday. I should've done what I wanted. WHERE WOULD YOU HAVE LEARNED BOUNDARIES AND SELF RESPECT FROM LEAH? HOW COULD YOU HAVE OWNED IT UNTIL YOU HAD AN AWAKENING? THIS IS YOUR AWAKENING. MISTAKES YOU'VE MADE IN THE PAST YOU HAD NO CONTROL OVER. STARTING FROM NOW SINCE YOU ARE NOW AWARE - NOW THE CLOCK CAN START TICKING, BUT EVEN THEN, IT WILL TAKE TIME TO DEVELOP AND LEARN WHERE YOUR BOUNDARIES ARE...GO EASY ON YOURSELF. I am disgusted by my passivity. I'm ashamed of this child-like, passive girl I've been in relationships for the past 20 years of my life. MAYBE DISGUSTED BY THE PEOPLE WHO HAD A RESPONSIBILITY TO DO RIGHT BY YOU IS A BETTER FEELING - RATHER THAN BE ASHAMED OF YOURSELF - AGAIN, YOU WERE ASLEEP, YOU DID NOT KNOW AND ACTED OUT THE BEST WAY YOU KNEW WHICH IS WHAT YOU WERE TAUGHT...STOP! It's embarrassing. I'm not proud of this passive woman I've become. YOU CAN BEGIN TO CHANGE THOSE THINGS...AND THE EVIDENCE IS THERE THAT YOU ARE WORKING ON IT...BUT BE PATIENT. Now I'll never know. THAT STATEMENT IS A LIE...YOU WILL KNOW...GIVE IT TIME. BIG HUGS AND KEEP VENTING, KEEP DOING WHAT YOU'RE DOING...PURGE ALL THE TOXINS...GET IT OUT... LEAH, YOU ARE GROWING...CHANGE IS SCARY, IT IS HARD, I RATHER USE THE WORD GROWTH...I LIKE THAT BETTER THAN CHANGE...BUT YOU ARE GROWING... I WISH I WAS 38 AGAIN...I'M NOT MUCH OLDER....42 BUT TO KNOW THAT I'D DO THINGS DIFFERENTLY. I WAS 38 WHEN I MET THE NARC. YOU ARE GOING TO BE OKAY - YOU HAVE SO MUCH INSIGHT, UNDERSTANDING...THINGS ARE CLICKING YOU ARE MAKING CONNECTIONS...THAT IS WHAT IT IS ABOUT - THIS JOURNEY TO SELF AWARENESS...AND I LOOK AROUND AT SOME OF MY MARRIED FRIENDS AND IN A WAY I DO PITY THEM, BECAUSE IN A WAY, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY WILL EVER HAVE THE PRIVLEDGE OF REALLY GETTING TO KNOW THEMSELVES AS OPPOSED TO LIVING A ROLE AS A WIFE, A MOTHER BUT NEVER REALLY DIGGING DOWN AND HAVING A CHANCE TO BE REALLY SELFISH WITH THEMSELVES AND LIVE LIFE ON THEIR TERMS...TO HAVE THE CHANCE TO DARE, TO DREAM, TO TAKE RISKS WITHOUT AFFECTING ANYONE...I THINK THERE IS A PLACE FOR MARRIAGE - BUT SOME OF MY FRIENDS GOT LOCKED DOWN SO YOUNG AND NOW THEY'RE DIFFERENT PEOPLE, BUT NEVER REALLY LIVED LIFE ON THEIR TERMS?...WE HAVE THAT CHANCE! THAT IS THE UPSIDE...AND WHEN WE DO GROW AND FIND OURSELVES, WE WILL BE COMFORTABLE IN OUR OWN SKIN. SOME MAY FALL IN LOVE WITH THE INDEPENENDENCE, SOME MAY FEEL READY TO SHARE WITH ANOTHER. BUT DO YOU SEE WHAT A BLESSING IN A WAY THIS EXPERIENCE IS? IT'S FREEDOM LEAH - FREEDOM! AND AS WOMEN, WE'VE BEEN MOLDED TO BELIEVE THAT THE IDEAL IS BONDAGE...REJECT THE LIE!!! FIND YOUR TRUTH.

#28 Jan 2 - 12PM (Reply to #9)

Leah

Michele, this post was so powerful

and it had me in tears in the wee hours of the morning... I need to re-read this post every day until it really sinks in. A day or 2 ago I posted my 'aha' moment - that most recent ex-N is just as disordered as my mother. Since I don't listen to her or believe a word she says, I need to apply the same understanding to him. Then New Year's Eve...clearing out my apt. for the big move... I was undone. Yesterday I just felt so embarrassed for allowing the abuse...of enabling the abuser. It hit me like a ton of bricks. I'm gonna re-read your post all day long...I need to. It's the space I'm in today. *sigh* Thanks for investing so much time and energy & love into supporting me. It means a lot. Hugs, Leah

#29 Jan 2 - 3PM (Reply to #10)

anonymous

Michele is RIGHT ON Here

And your friend, inadvertently, did you no favors. She was well-meaning but what she said amounted to little more than blame the victim. A book that might help you Leah is called Understanding the Passive-Aggressive Male (or something like that). You keep beating yourself up for being passive. But he was passive-aggressive. So how bout if you beat him up (in your mind or here, not for real!) rather than yourself? Why was being supposedly passive unacceptable in you but acceptabile in him? And if you say he wasn't passive - discarding someone with no conversation, no mutual working it out, no striving to come to mutual acceptance and understanding - is classic passive-aggressiveness. The only thing *wrong* that you did was rely on the same patterns THAT YOU LEARNED FROM YOUR MOTHER that you always have used. And that's not *wrong* - it's simply uninformed. Michele got it so right. So many people would simply cover up the pain of a lost dysfunctional relationship or childhood with drugs, alcohol, binge eating, binge shopping, gambling, name your vice. (That's what my ExN had done, surprise, surprise). So few actually do what you and all the great ladies (and bloke) here are doing which is to actually educate and inform yourself. Give yourself all of the credit in the world because you totally deserve it Leah.

#30 Jan 2 - 10PM (Reply to #11)

Leah

Morty & Michele, thanks for being patient with me

I hear you. I am grateful that I came out of my abusive childhood relatively okay. I do have my addictions - picking my cuticles & nails (last night, I did a lot of damage on that front)...sometimes internet surfing...sometimes talking on the phone with friends. Yes, my most-recent ex-N was passive aggressive. In fact, I called him on it early on in the relationship, and he disagreed with me at first. After the breakup, it became clear to me that he had been very passive aggressive, and I hadn't picked it up. So I shouldn't beat myself up for behaving towards ex-N the way I behaved towards my mother when I was a kid - like a deer in headlights, willing to do whatever made her content or stop raging... With ex-N, the times I was most disempowered were when he got angry or annoyed with me (for nothing), or during the few times we had sex...when he was controlling and demanding. So I have to shake off this shame that I'm feeling, yes? I guess feeling ashamed is kind of habit for me...and it has come up a lot after the D&D. I'll try to place more value om my path & recovery work. Thanks you guys. Sometimes it's really hard to accept and love myself...that's embarrassing, too. But it is hard for me. And the first place I go is self-blame. I hear you guys. I'll try my best not to buy into my self-blaming. Thanks again for being patient with me. Hugs, Leah

#31 Jan 2 - 12AM (Reply to #6)

Journey

Also Leah

From what you say, you are aware that you may self sabotage peace of mind to be in unhealthy relationships. To some extent we all have done that or we wouldn't be here with you. Now is your time girl, take it! Find yourself in this mess, read a lot of self help books, therapy if you can, build your esteem, learn with all of us how to avoid another narc and future unnecessary pain. You are young, there is time to spend on yourself. One day you will be ready for a healthy non-narc relationship. Whatever time is spent from now until then will be worth every learning curve as you develop self love and caring and learn how to practice it with actions. You don't need to learn how to make it easier for narcs to stay with you... that is what I thought for awhile too because my self esteem had plummeted from the rejection. We need to learn instead how to make them leave sooner and how to avoid any in the future. Journey on...

Journey on...

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