On Boundaries

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#1 Jan 4 - 12PM
Tigerlily
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On Boundaries

I`ve been thinking a lot about boundaries since my jousting contest with the lady narc. recently and come to some interesting conclusions.
One thing I`ve concluded is that actually my boundaries have always been pretty healthy in the sense that I always felt when they were being violated. I just didn`t know that that is what I was feeling.
Something else that has struck me, however, is that is not enough to recognize that your boundaries are being violated, you have to ACT. To those of us whose boundaries were violated when we were children, this is virtually impossible, because we never learned a coping strategy to deal with boundary violation. Or rather, we did, but we learned the wrong one. We learned to put up with it. N.C. is not an option when you`re a child.
So boundary violation sends us right back to being an impotent child again. Unable to act, we can only suffer. And instead of packing up our things and going off into the wide, wide world, we ask ourselves, "Why`s he so mean? I didn`t do anything wrong. Maybe if I ....... then he`ll....".
We try and fix it, instead of quitting. And by doing so, we acquiesce to further boundary violation.
Boundary violation is soul-rape. That`s why it feels so awful.
As children, we had no choice. As adults, we do.

If I look back at my time with Wottaprick, I can see that there was one point at which, if I`d acted on his boundary violation instead of just threatening to, I`d have saved myself a lot of time, heartache and money. I should have refused to move in with him when he D&D`d me three weeks before I was due to move in with him. I even thought about it, practically it would have been possible to stay in my old flat and just unpack everything again, but I just felt too weak, and too hooked, to cope with the consequences of taking that action. So I instead I had to cope with the consequences of taking the action I DID take, which was to move in with him, put up with increasing abuse over the following ten months and then move out again, by which time I was feeling ten times weaker.
I don`t know about anyone else, but I`m zero tolerance from now on as far as boundary violation is concerned, and you should just SEE the difference in my four sons. I haven`t had to yell at them for months.
Yup, zero tolerance from me from now on.

Love
Tigerlily

Jan 4 - 6PM
bgirl
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i needed to read this...thank

i needed to read this...thank u
Jan 4 - 2PM
Winter
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Amazing analysis!

I second every word you wrote. It is so wonderful when we become wiser due to the emotional distance. So, this experience served to something. Right? You know, sometimes this "trick" is used in maths: we study some phenomenon on the extremes in order to better understand its nature under usual circumstances. The experience with the narc is very similar: once we understood (and analysed) the boundaries violation phenomenon dealing with the “extreme individual”, it become easier to recognize and to deal with it when “more or less normal” people are involved. Love Winter
Jan 4 - 2PM (Reply to #11)
Tigerlily
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Winter, I can`t really relate to this.

It makes my head ache. What I do feel is this. Taking the path I did, I reached the same conclusion by a long and painful path that I could have reached in less time and with less pain. If I`d baled when I considered baling, it would have signalled "my boundaries are worth protecting. I am worth protecting". Leaving when I did, I signalled only that my life was worth protecting. By "signalled", I mean signalled to Wottaprick, to my kids, to my parents post mortem, to everyone who knows me, to myself and (last but not least) to the Universe. I do not feel grateful to that lousy, shallow, heartless, insensitive alien sonofabitch, because he could have showed me that I was worthy of protection by protecting me, instead of beating me down to the point that I was fighting to protect my life. So the only thing I learned from this particular nasty episode in a life in which nasty episodes were nothing unusual was that our self-protection mechanisms only click into gear when something is threatened which we feel is WORTHY of protection. And in my case, that was only my life. Only my life, Winter.
Jan 4 - 3PM (Reply to #12)
Winter
Winter's picture

I can relate to this too, Tigerlily

The experience is extremely painful! I agree with you without condition. And, of course, if you were protected, loved and cherished, your life and you would feel way better and happier. But, very unfortunately, this awful pathetic creature crossed your path. What I wanted to stress is that you discover a lot of very deep insights about you, about life, about Universe. And this is a good outcome of the horrible experience. Would you be better off? Maybe... Maybe not... Nobody knows yet. You are a musician; you certainly know that most of the best chef d'oeuvres were created in the moments of the emotional suffering. I’ve heard that Mendelssohn wrote the "Wedding March" when his beloved married another man. I strongly believe that in pain we become creative. When I read your last posts, I am amazed and admiring your deep and creative analysis of life and humans. It will serve you to have the life of hapiness and joy. I do believe in it! Love Winter
Jan 4 - 1PM
Hunter
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I like this.. You are now

I like this.. You are now entering the "No Spin Zone" beware of a Tiger... She's really a Lily .. A sweet Lilly .. Hunter
Jan 4 - 1PM (Reply to #8)
Tigerlily
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Thanks Hun - ter!

You`re pretty sweet yourself behind than chain-saw ....
Jan 4 - 1PM (Reply to #9)
Hunter
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LOL!

LOL!
Jan 4 - 12PM
strong_enough
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Good thoughts. I've also

Good thoughts. I've also been struggling with issues surrounding boundaries with my Narc. I have been good about NC over the past month, except for logistics with my 2 boys; but obviously any contact makes it difficult to move forward. The amount of time he spends with them is limited. He picks them up and takes them to school and stays with them for about 2-3 hours 1 night a week. No weekends or overnights because he cannot handle them. He has zero tolerance and zero parenting skills. He calles my 4 y/o a "jerk" the other day because he didn't want to wear a football jersey for a bowl game. Gimme me a break! My 6 y/o birthday is coming up and he wants his dad to come over for dinner, but I don't want him here. My son does though; where do you draw the line? My Narc's paychecks also continue to go into MY bank account and then I write him a check following each pay period after I take my allotted amount - but this also feels weird; esp. since our divorce is now final. He is bad with money thougth, so at least I know I am getting my child support without having to ask for it. I just wish my kids were not connected to him so that I could kick his ass to the curb for good! Any suggestions?
Jan 4 - 1PM (Reply to #6)
Tigerlily
Tigerlily's picture

Well, it`s only my personal take

But I would split "boundaries up into three parts, or steps. 1) Say what you mean. That means in your case, telling your son that you don`t feel comfortable in the same house with Daddy at the moment (I`m sure he`ll understand) and asking him how HE thinks the pair of you can solve the problem (kids are often more creative at finding solutions to problems than we are). 2. Meaning what you say, which might mean just saying "Sorry, No" to both your son and your N. 3. Sticking to it and taking the consequences, which may mean scenes with both your son and your N. and might even result in your son spending his birthday with your N. But it`s worth it, because it will do you good to set a healthy boundary and maintain it, and it will definitely reflect positively on your son, whatever the outcome. And next time it`s so much easier. Good Luck! Tigerlily
Jan 4 - 1PM (Reply to #5)
oceangirl
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also....

Also, to comment on the freak calling your child a "name". Verbal abuse. What else is he calling them? What else is he doing to them, suggesting to them.... My son was abused by the Narc, so maybe my situation is different, but, as you know, the Narc is capable of highly suggestive words, etc., and it is good your kids don't spend too much time with him. "My" narc caused my son to have friend trouble, called him names, etc etc etc. It all makes me want to puke, but, now, every day, I wake up and thank whomever is listening that we, my son and I, have NC for the past several months. My son is much better and so am I.
Jan 4 - 12PM (Reply to #2)
oceangirl
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Child supp

Did you set your child support up through the court? If not, do it. Also, eliminate ALL joint accounts, so he can't steal money from you, or commit fraud on your account. Is he really bad with money, or do you just still do stuff for him? Get the child support direct deposited to you, and get your own account. It is safer that way. They don't like the way our kids dress, because the kids don't want to be mini-them look-a-likes! The Narcs want the kids to dress a certain way so that the Narc can show them off in public - period. If the kid embarrasses the Narc in public, the kid gets blamed. Hopefully your kids will see the "real" Dad and assess for themselves. My son did. Take care of your kids and your money and your identity.
Jan 4 - 1PM (Reply to #3)
strong_enough
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We already have separate bank

We already have separate bank accounts; his check goes into MY solo account. Court ordered child support will be coming within the next month or two. My attorney handled the divorce proceedings as a priority b/c he was paying me without difficulty - now it will go to domestic relations. I think my kids see their "real" dad at times, they expect him to yell alot; and he sucks as a parent. I will have sole custody thougth and total control over when, how, and how often he sees them - which I am grateful for. I probably need to stop trying to create the "illusion," for my kids that their dad is a good man, when he's a Narcissistic jackass.
Jan 4 - 1PM (Reply to #4)
oceangirl
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same boat

yes, I was in the same boat, trying to have the illusion sometimes. It is a hard line to tow. We are taught in a divorce that we are not supposed to say bad things about the spouse, but we weren't given the same scenario. We were given and live in a scenario where we have to protect ourselves, and our kids. Bottom line. I can't tell my son "oh, your father didn't mean it, he was just having a bad day, and he really is a good man". NOT! I mean, I try to stay neutral, but I don't want my son to have mixed defenses and mixed signals when really I have had to protect him from physical abuse. Yeah, don't create an illusion, it will just confuse them. Stay neutral and let your kids form their own opinion. I totally hate when people tell me "oh, I hope you don't say anything bad in front of him about his father....". Ack, give me a break. Those people have no clue what we have all been through.