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The book "Splitting" warned of this...

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#1 Jan 27 - 9PM
itreallyisabouthim
itreallyisabouthim's picture

The book "Splitting" warned of this...

I had to send an e-mail to my STBX regarding a few things our 4 year old said to me regarding him. They weren't even that terrible, but bad enough that I could not let them slide. I did not want to do because I feared he would punish me for it. My attorney reminded me that I have to, that I can't just let it go. I know this as a mom but I also knew no good would come of it. I knew that he would not reflect on his behavior and modify it and I also worried that it would backfire - that the punishment would be extreme.

Well...it was. He replied with allegations of sexual and physical abuse - by me.

Jan 28 - 6AM
agnesmurphy17
agnesmurphy17's picture

I am so sorry

So sorry. This is only to be expected. Please, please . . . no contact. Your lawyer handles everything . . . everything from now on in. Everything you say & do will be used against you. Do not give him any ammunition. Classic move of a pathological. One cannot talk to them because it only gives them ideas.
Jan 28 - 5AM
GettingOut
GettingOut's picture

I understand that fear of

I understand that fear of not wanting to do something out of not knowing what the consequences would be. It sucks. There are so many things I want to say to soon to be ex N but I refrain from doing so in most cases. I have to sit and think about what the consequences could be and some times what could happen outweighs doing something. Me telling him he's an alcoholic abusive narcissist who doesn't deserve to breathe really won't get me anywhere. :-) For instance, with the recent counseling thing. If I were to email him and tell him what son told me the N would turn around and confront son telling him, perhaps, that he can't tell me things he says or that he got him in trouble and they need to keep their secrets, etc. It would hurt son in the long term. I know what he would do because he did it to other son so why would now be any different than 12 years ago? When he baits me, I don't respond. What your N said sounds like baiting to me. I'm glad you copied your lawyer. I've even had mine listen to nasty voice mails mine has left. One of which caused him to get a warning letter sent to him. It's hard fighting for what's right all the time. Quite draining in fact.
Jan 28 - 8AM (Reply to #4)
itreallyisabouthim
itreallyisabouthim's picture

I admit I'm a bit lost how

I admit I'm a bit lost how to handle this sort of thing on an ongoing basis. Like am I to just cower and not say things I think DO need to be said because I fear retaliation? That was sort of what my gut was telling me before I pressed "send" but does that mean that is right? Sometimes being a parent requires being brave and willing to take it on the chin for my child, but if the retaliation is something that will ultimately harm our children, what is the best thing to do? My lawyer insists that the correct thing to do is to address things as they come up and not react to the hostile backlash. She said "You're innocent - act it!" Meaning if I cower now it makes me look guilty or something so just keep being the good parent and don't worry about his antics. The types of things that have come up which I have felt the need to address have been comments made by our four year old that show that he has been discussing the court proceedings with her and saying some slamming things about me, in an underhanded way (such as veiled concern) which makes them even more effective with a four year old. Also she was asking my guidance as to how to tell her daddy she did not want him to watch inappropriate cartoons around her. I felt she was directly asking for my help here in particular and felt I needed to bring it up. But given that he's an N, he is NOT going to change, why even do this stuff? Again, my lawyer insists that I at least have to try, as does my therapist who knows fully well who I am dealing with. I can see that point to some extent but if it's not going to be effective but rather create secondary problems, what's the point? Is it just to show that at least I am trying, since most casual observers won't take into account that he is a N and understand why I don't try to have a conversation with him? I know for now this is in the hands of the lawyers and I won't be going directly to him for anything for a while. But eventually it will go back to e-mailing directly, and this is the sort of thing I am going to have to deal with for a long time, so I guess I am looking for a flow chart or something...a way to know what to do at each stage of this stupid cycle. This has been quite a day. I appreciate your feedback.
Feb 2 - 6PM (Reply to #12)
Ellen
Ellen's picture

tell him

I would be telling him about this one and she wouldn't be going there for sure in my book. No way is that ok and i would tell them in court why. 'how to tell her daddy she did not want him to watch inappropriate cartoons around her'. Noone f**** with my childs mind like that. Also just to say that i was very up front with my exNH and ultimately he didn't mess with me, i got things just how i was happy with them in the end cos he couldnt be bothered as he didn't get reactions. I went to the contact centre.
Feb 2 - 6PM (Reply to #13)
itreallyisabouthim
itreallyisabouthim's picture

I have my lawyer on this

I have my lawyer on this today...it will be interesting to see what happens. At least kids are here with me now.
Feb 2 - 7PM (Reply to #14)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

itreallyisabouthim

ALL communication should be email with him. your lawyer should make this CLEAR because he will twist conversations Just ask "please explain to me what occurred on DATE with CHILD to cause her to have XXX or say XXX." Get this service: http://www.readnotify.com/ it will prove when he received and read the email. If he doesn't answer within 24 hours, TELL your lawyer it's HER TURN. TELL don't ask. TELL! ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website
Feb 2 - 8PM (Reply to #15)
itreallyisabouthim
itreallyisabouthim's picture

Thanks for that link. And

Thanks for that link. I'm having trouble signing up at the moment but will try again later. . He has periodically claimed to have e-mail issues so he probably is planning on using that excuse later.
Feb 2 - 10PM (Reply to #16)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

itreallyisabouthim

Good then - get the jump on him with this. During the custody stuff the cost is nominal compared to catching him in a LIE in BLACK & WHITE... LOL ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website
Jan 28 - 8AM (Reply to #5)
GettingOut
GettingOut's picture

itreallyisabouthim

Sure you feel lost - you're dealing with an N. My youngest son is 16 so I think it's bit different than dealing with a 4 year old. Not responding and not taking the bait is not cowering in the corner. When I email the N I stick to the facts. And I pick which battles to even bother with. I don't engage in conversations. What for? He tunes me out within seconds anyway. It won't make a difference. For instance, one time he told my son that I was going to take all his money in the divorce and he would have to live in an apartment and he might have to put the dogs to sleep since they couldn't be in an apartment. Son was in tears and also angry at me. I didn't even bother letting the N know I knew what he had done but instead discussed it with son and got him to see the irrationality behind the Ns statements. Mine ripped my character to shreds for months with my kids - ages 26, 24 and 16. He would call the older two up and say ridiculous stuff. And even though they knew what he was saying was odd, the believed him because he's their father and they thought they "should". Pfffttt. They, in time, realized what he was and I didn't have to do anything. He got caught in repeated lies, etc. My therapist does not agree with me confronting the N. Mine is physically abusive and I'm still living in the home so I use email for communication and even then I don't give him a piece of my mind like he deserves. Because it won't matter. If I were to confront him it would not only put me in physical danger, but it also would open me up for his verbal abuse and manipulation which would, most likely, have me feeling pretty confused and depressed. It's hard, I know. I don't know if an advocate for the child would help. I just don't know enough since mine are older.
Jan 28 - 8AM (Reply to #10)
itreallyisabouthim
itreallyisabouthim's picture

you held your tongue a long time

It seemss right to me that you finally said "enough" and started telling the truth. I think with kids of that age, the whole "leave them out of it" thing can be taken too far, and it is merciful to disabuse them of his poison. Also, since your ex is making it their problem, there IS no leaving them out of it. But they have the gift of a near-adult perspective. With a four year old, what then? Interesting that your therapist does not agree with you confronting him. I am definitely going to talk to mine again about this. I have told her over and over (and she really really gets that I feel this way) that I see it as pointless. She comes back with "some people need to hear things over and over". But is she taking into consideration that the retaliation could be worse than the original thing that needed to be discussed? Very much looking forward to my next appointment. I respect her and feel like she gets Narcissism, but I am not beyond second guessing her (or my lawyer) on this one aspect of things if I feel she is urging me to do something potentially damaging.
Jan 28 - 9AM (Reply to #11)
GettingOut
GettingOut's picture

Maybe, and I'm no therapist,

Maybe, and I'm no therapist, but maybe she is thinking along the lines of you empowering yourself. I, and you, have become more powerful in that we don't play their games. We don't engage when they bait. For me, that is enough. I will never ever tell him what he's done. I tried it for years and it would all turn back on me anyway. I don't go there anymore. You don't have to do anything you don't want to do. You know this guy better than anyone else. You know what will happen if you do this or that. Problem sometimes is allowing yourself to trust your gut. The N has had you second guessing yourself forever so, yeah, it's hard to think some times. And, since they would rarely react in a certain way to certain things, you never knew what would hit ya'. Trust yourself here. You know what to do and what not to do and don't think yourself a coward at any time. Some might call me a wuss for staying in my room whenever he's at the house. Have some balls!! Do what you want!! Don't hide!! What I would say is I'm not a coward. I don't hide. I simply can't stand the sight of him. Cowards don't put up with what we have and come out a survivor. You'll figure this whole thing out.
Jan 28 - 8AM (Reply to #6)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

the ultimate act of self-defense

NEVER bother to 'give them a piece of your mind' - it's lost on them besides they FEED off your emotional content. They love a reaction. The less you give them the more you STARVE THE VAMPIRE... and that hurts them more than anything. When you turn off your emotions around them, keep it dry & facts only. That's the ultimate defense. http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/04/30/starve-vampire-when-you-dont-respond ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website
Jan 28 - 9AM (Reply to #9)
GettingOut
GettingOut's picture

Barbara

That link was great. I've had this happen with the N since I haven't played his games anymore. It's interesting to see how they change tactics to get you to "feed" them. Mine would respond to an email I needed an answer on and would include a little dig in it. I wouldn't respond. A little while later he would reply to the same email again but differently and with a different dig. Very strange. And I wonder if they ever realize how transparent their behavior is. Guess not and, hell, I didn't see it for years myself.
Jan 28 - 8AM (Reply to #7)
itreallyisabouthim
itreallyisabouthim's picture

dry I do keep it ALL

dry I do keep it ALL business. I have never once taken the bait and reacted emotionally. I give myself huge props for that as it has been 8 months now and there have been so many times I've wanted to give him a piece of my mind. I am just not clear on what "business" really needs to be discussed. I am going to bring up this with my therapist and ask her to question herself about needing to address stuff with him, given the response I just got. Ultimately, I know it's my choice. I am just trying to find my way through this and dealing with competing perspectives.
Jan 28 - 8AM (Reply to #8)
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

all of it... always

all dry all the time facts Example: You: "daughter has expressed to me she doesn't want... and I am honoring her wishes" them: "you're a bitch who's influencing her... parental alienation... blah blah... response: "daughter has expressed to me she doesn't want...and I am honoring her wishes" them: "you're hurting MY FEELINGS... blahditty blah" response: "daughter has expressed to me she doesn't want...and I am honoring her wishes" got it? ~~~~~~~~~ The truth will set you free... but first it will piss you off - Gloria Steinem Visit My Abuse Website
Jan 27 - 11PM
Barbara (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

responding to hostile email

Make sure your attorney gets copies of what he fired back. And do NOT RESPOND Here's what Eddy says about responding to that sort of mail: http://www.highconflictinstitute.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=30&Itemid=101 Get a PSYCH EVALUATION on him - ASAP!! Demand one and have your lawyer set it up!!
Jan 27 - 11PM (Reply to #2)
itreallyisabouthim
itreallyisabouthim's picture

Thanks. My lawyer told me

Thanks. My lawyer told me not to respond and she got a copy. She is dealing directly with his lawyer. I am concerned that he is telling her to say stuff like this. He claims she said it in front of his mom (weeks ago - and he is just now bringing it up??????)