Blaming myself again

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#1 Jun 29 - 8AM
badjer
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Blaming myself again

Ugh. I just had a conversation with my mother in which I asked her "is it really bad of me to hope that one day, down the line, he will regret what he has done?"

She said "if he made the wrong decision, then he will regret what he has done."

I said "do you think he made the wrong decision?" and she said "yes, I do, but he knew you were unlikely to let things drop and not every man can take that."

This has thrown me in to a state of confusion because with him, I was a lot less nagging and hostile than I have been in my marriage. I became a doormat with him and cut him a lot of slack. When he was a prick and I was in tears and said "you don't seem to care how you have hurt me" he said "why can't you just get over it - I have."

When we had our last date he implied that because we were "analysing" things that had gone wrong wrong and he said "you see this is it, we have spent most of this evening analysing it all and I don't wangt to go forwards looking backwards.."

I read that as - 'forgive me all my sins, let it all go, let's wipe the slate clean, forgive and forget, move on.'

In other words - don't bring me up on my behaviour ever again.

I had actually suggested last October we talk things through to wipe the slate clean and he said "we have tried that and failed several times." He was clearly of the view then that terminal damage had been done and he didn't trust himself not to piss me around again.

So why does this hurt? It is like I feel he was saying"I'm going to be a prick and you hold too much of a grudge."

Ergo, it must by definition be me again for not letting things go - for having a backbone.

He used to describe himself as an "oasis of calm" and it "scared" him the way he lost his temper with me and yet he said he "often lost his rag" with his ex wife and told her to fuck off.

So how come he "knew where he was" with her but with me I was some big scary monster that frightened him? He said "we have a history" in other words, poor me let me lick my wounds some more, you dumped me for being an asshole and you'll do it again, you're not forgiving and forgetting.

Was I right to still be angry? I never felt I was given the right to say what I felt or how truly awful he had been - is that me with the problem for not letting go or was I right to retain my dignity and pride?

Who was at the greater fault? Him for not allowing me time to grieve or me for not letting go and moving on after we "reunited"?

Does that make him sensible or a monumental coward?

Both?

Jun 29 - 12PM
Caligirl
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badgerbruno

I was thinking about you and how you were doing. I think bc our N's are so similar, even though they are ALL like clones, and you seem to react so much like I did. I agree with Used and Spinning. The discussion with your mom prompted these thoughts. Slipping into the blame game is normal. Also, it goes hand in hand with our self-doubt. I let my N do so many things I would never had accepted in the past. Mine controlled the communication too. When I cried in front of him, and it was only like twice, bc he was being a jerk, he did nothing, in fact he only abused more by mocking me. There is no accountability or consequences with them. I noticed how when you told him, "You don't seem to care how you've hurt me" while in tears (clearly you were hurting), he was cold and quickly brought the convo back around to him, saying HE had gotten over it. Of course, he was not only cold, he callously judged you for crying, as if your emotions were wrong, and he was "right" by getting over it. They don't want to analyze or talk, bc they don't want to look too closely within. Also, you point out how he described himself as an "oasis of calm" saying it "scared" him the way you brought out his temper (again blaming you), but then admits to having a temper with his ex. The "oasis of calm" was a crock of bull! Manipulation at it's finest. Good for you at seeing this! They often see themselves so differently as they really are, true to the disorder. These N's are so good at lying. They twist things with their words to sound "right" when it doesn't make any sense. Now, if we weren't so confused, bc by that point we've been running ourselves ragged to love this person, and fix things, like a hamster on a wheel, not to mention our brains are still scrambled; we would have probably called them out on more inconsistencies and poor treatment than we did. Yes, you were perfectly entitled to be angry and to call him out on his behavior! As someone said, your strength saved you. I know it doesn't feel that way now, bc we are still "licking our wounds" and we still care about them, sick as they are. Plus, the CD is still strong. It is so easy to blame ourselves when they often blamed us. Mine blamed me for the end of my marriage, and he scapegoated me by describing my actions as nothing close to the truth. He didn't even know about it, but he said I was the same way with my exH (who was not a N, but had a penchant for controlling and very neat). He said my ex had to get the "f*ck away from me" bc I did the same to him. My exH and I rarely fought. He was sensitive, loving, and a good commmunicator. He often initiated conversation. We were married 10 years, most of them happy. We know why it ended. It was amicable. Basically nothing what my N said. I have never had such a toxic and abusive relationship as I did with my N, and I have never hurt so much. It was a big price to pay. I was wondering how your appointment went. If you'd like PM me. Take care. (((Hugs)))
Jun 29 - 9AM
Used
Used's picture

badgerbruno

I THINK WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS YOU HAVE TAKEN YOUR MOTHERS REMARK OUT OF CONTEXT...YOU HAVE IMMEDIATLY THOUGHT ..OH I NAGGED HIM TO MUCH....YOU DID NOT!!!! UNFORTUNATLY SOME REMARKS TAKE US BACK TO THE BLAME GAME...B/C WE WANT TO THINK IT WAS 6 OF1 AND HALF A DOZEN OF THE OTHER...IT WAS NOT...I READ YOUR STORY TWICE B/C I FELT I KNEW YOUR LITTLE CHARMER...UNTIL I RELIZED YES I AND EVERYONE ON THE BOARD KNEW HIM....B/C WE MIGHT AS WELL HAVE ALL BEEN WITH THE SAME MAN...*NARCSVILLE FUCKING UNITED*PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT QUESTION YOURSELF...IT WAS DOOMED FROM THE GET GO !!!!! FOR ALL OF US...AS SOON AS THEY SAID HI..WE SHOULD HAVE SAID BYE...WE DIDNT SO HERE WE ARE....CHIN UP GIRL..
Jun 29 - 9AM
spinning
spinning's picture

badger, I am sorry

you are suffering today. You have been doing great, and I think asking these questions is part of the process. You have many questions...good, reasonable questions that any normal person would ponder and raise in order to gain understanding and to avoid making the same mistakes. That's what you did when you two "reunited" and you discussed what had happened in the past. A non-disordered person who was truly interested in making sure the relationship would never again be messed up would engage in the discussion, seek a resolution and agree to try to honor whatever new boundaries had been discussed. You correctly translated what your disordered one was really interested in: "Do not call me out on my behavior ever again." This is typical. Text book. He doesn't want to try to "wipe the slate clean" because he would have to be ACCOUNTABLE for his actions and RESPONSIBLE for the consequences. Badger, dearheart, getting angry at being treated poorly is a normal, human reaction! It is hard-wired! It is what saves us from harm! You're allowed to speak up when someone is abusing you or your good nature or your feelings. Like you, however, with a disordered one when I spoke up it meant punishment, silent treatment and pain. With a normal man in a stable relationship, you have an argument, get over it or walk away, and you know it doesn't mean that the relationship will abruptly end. Badger, I apologize for making this so long. I really want to help because these "people" cause such pain to good, smart people it just about kills me. Last thing I'd like to note is these disordered ones are EXPERTS at compartmentalizing. They can behave in all sorts of ways and forget it if it's been acknowledged. The disordered one I was involved with CONSTANTLY expected me to JUST FORGET THE RAGES, THE SILENT TREATMENTS, THE PUNISHMENTS, THE DESTRUCTION OF MY THINGS because he did and said "let's move on." Of course I'd try, but history would repeat itself over and over and over. That's what happened to you, too, isn't it? If you would have stayed with this "person" it would have continued over and over again. Badger, I hope you are not taking on responsibility for someone else's unhealthy, disordered behavior. It is not your fault. You are a good, smart, strong woman who loved someone who is ill. He tried to manipulate you and succeeded to some point, as you note, but your strength is what saved you from destruction. Your strength is an attractive quality that you should nurture and feel good about. I hope this helps a little, badger. I hope you will feel better soon. It does get better with more time and distance. Most sincerely, (somewhat) spinning. (and it sucks).

spinning

Jun 30 - 10AM (Reply to #2)
badjer
badjer's picture

Caligirl / Used / Spinning

I see what you mean about why my emotions are all over the place. He was superlative at twisting my thoughts and somehow making it my fault for "not letting things go" or "bringing things up again and again". I probably did. But that was because I never felt I was given a proper truthful answer the first time round. His actions seldom married with his words and it only needs that to happen once for their credibility to go. They don't understand that the situation breeds distrust. Take when he screamed "shut the fuck up!" in my face about 3 times. He then gave me the silent treatment for 2 days and justified it by text with something like "I need time to think about why I would behave like that because it is so unlike me yadda yadda." A trite apology, if any, but more an intellectualising of his conduct. A clinical distancing from his actions - almost like he was going to 'study' them in a petri dish. Then when we did speak, it was somehow blamed on "perhaps not loving [you] in the way I did.." Right. So it's my fault you totally lost it, then? Then in that same conversation he whined that "I'm worried things are going to be different now.." I prompted him and said "do you mean you are worried I will be different?" and he said "yes". I said "you're worried my feelings for you will change and that will make things different?" and yes grudgingly (like a child) said yes. He *hated* admitting that kind of fear and vulnerabiloty. So rather than admit he was a bullying turd, it was easier to convince himself that it was a reasonable outburst based on (and here were the plethora of excuses) 1. A comment I made angered him; 2. He liked to take a shit quietly and my chatter through the bathroom wall aggravated him; 3. He was tired and took it out on me; 4. He liked his space and took it out on me; 5. He felt I had attacked his integrity. Take your pick. Funny how all of those situations were external and had nothing to do with him being unable to process, name or channel his emotions effectively. I always felt that if we never truly talked about the issue, how could we move on from it? That's normal, right? I mean, to not see someone for 5 months who said you were the love of his life and have them *grin* through an apology and *grin* while they tell you they threw your trinkets away - that's not discussing things??! That's just surface BS!! He actually said about 10 minutes in - ""are we done? have I answered all your questions?" (with a *grin*). The guy had no, no clue as to how to effectively deal with an emotionally traumatic situation and - yes - I wanted to analyse in depth to find out where and how we had gone wrong. Maybe that is being a woman, maybe that is me. But to say to me as if I am the grudge-bearer "I don't want to go forwards looking back" meant, 'shut up, let it go, I've said my piece, don't challenge me about it again.' I felt I was screaming into a padded room and I feel I have NEVER been heard by him, not once. It makes my eyes swim just thinking about it. Today I feel numb about it all - like if I allow myself to think about him too much my very tentative self-respect will come crashing down. Thinking about him hurts and I am needing to block it out. The questions are ceasing, but this is maybe an up day. I will probably have a down day tomorrow, but one day at a time. I had my initial therapy consultation and touched on all topics. I am being referred to a relevant therapist but the first issue that cropped up was violation of boundaries - by so many people close to me. Boundaries, I can tell, will be a big issue. Hopefully, with little steps, I will get my self-esteem back up to a reasonable level and the fog will truly, finally lift. I am pulling for you all in the same way and sending a little prayer to God that he helps us all find happiness again. XXXX
Jun 30 - 12PM (Reply to #3)
Caligirl
Caligirl's picture

badgerbruno

I'm glad you're doing better today. It is a day-by-day thing. I too am feeling ok, even after dreaming last night about mine. You seem to be processing things correctly. I had the same experience of questioning, only bc his answers were vague and did not make sense. That is the mindf*ck they do. My N described himself as a "clown" in the beginning and I didn't take it as a redflag:( Often, his responses were silly, weird, and trite, IF I got one (similar to your N's grin). That, or I was faced immediately with bullying, "Shut your mouth, etc." His dad always joked too about things you should be serious about, his medical issues. Yeh, it is ok to joke, but I never SAW real emotions in regard to sadness. All of this does cause distrust. They don't GET THAT! Yes, words didn't match actions. You tried to talk about issues to resolve them. That is normal. I've heard that has typically been a woman thing (famous book on it), but not these days. It's about communicating. Most normal men can buckle down in uncomfortable conversations. Looking back, my exH AND ex-fiance read this famous relationship book. My exH encouraged communication at times. Yes, the fog does lift. Boundaries are important too. I had progressively lowered mine, but I was under extreme manipulation and control. I had no friends, bc I moved to where N was, and I got thrown into his family which wasn't functional, especially as to boundaries. His family was more dysfunctional than mine. Can't believe it, but both have boundary issues. With my family, I think the boundaries tend toward too separate or too lax, swinging both ways, and his family were too lax. I hope you have a good weekend. Thank you for the prayer. I too wish for all of us to get through this to happier days. The wounds we have are deep, and take time and patience. Hang in there!! Peace and love. And smiles :):):)