The Definition of Codependency

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#1 Mar 17 - 6PM
gettinbetter
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The Definition of Codependency

There seems to be alot of people that seem to be very uncomfortable with the word codependency or to any suggestion that they may be codependent. Why is that? It doesnt bother me in the least to say I am a raging codependent well... because its true. Its just that it seems to almost taboo or insulting to some. Like people want to call something other than what it is. Almost like they need to sugar coat. Here is the definition from Websters:

co·de·pen·den·cy noun \-dən(t)-sē\
Definition of CODEPENDENCY
: a psychological condition or a relationship in which a person is controlled or manipulated by another who is affected with a pathological condition (as an addiction to alcohol or heroin); broadly : dependence on the needs of or control by another
See codependency defined for English-language learne

He's pathological and I am controlled and manipulated by him. YEP!

Mar 19 - 11PM
Steph
Steph's picture

"Definition of CODEPENDENCY :

"Definition of CODEPENDENCY : a psychological condition or a relationship in which a person is controlled or manipulated by another who is affected with a pathological condition (as an addiction to alcohol or heroin); broadly : dependence on the needs of or control by another" To me, I think this definition is of someone that has been abused. What I mean is I don't think that because I was a certain way (co dependant) that that is why I was involved in this relationship. I think I became this way BECAUSE of the relationship. I was slowly and subtley brainwashed. I was targetted and my empathy/compassion was exploited. We all have to find our own truth, but I personally don't agree with the "co dependancy" thought process. Just my opinion.
Mar 20 - 7AM (Reply to #69)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

Havent you been abused??

If you have read any of my posts I often discuss that I came from a "good" family what I call the "cleavers" yet I am a raging codependent. While it is quite common for codependency to come from abusive family situations that is not the only cause. Codependency is about a dysfunctional relationship with the self. In my case I grew with the parents that were vary concerned with keep up appearances. I was also brought up with the idea Sick of it do the right thing or else. These types of dynamics bring about toxic shame in us. Toxic Shame is at the root of codependence. Codependence is merely one way that toxic shame manifests. It can manifest in an even more malignant way in the form of a PDI. So the familiarity that many of us feel about our Narcs, the feeling that he is your soul mate. It is about toxic shame,that is the familiarity. I was in no way abused by my parents did they intentionally cause my codependence ABSOLUTELY NOT but it still happened to me. They simply thought they were doing the right thing the way they raised me. They were the kind that had the idea raise your kids right or you are bad. These messages get passed down from generation to generation.
Mar 20 - 12PM (Reply to #70)
Steph
Steph's picture

Yes, I have been abused. And

Yes, I have been abused. And I don't believe it happened to me because I have a psychological condition known as "co dependance". I have read many of your posts. I have read Shari's site. I respect your opinion and like I said, we all have to find our own truth. I think it is great that you have found something that fits for you and that you are gaining insight and strength from it. It does not fit for me, though. And that's ok too:) No hard feelings:)
Mar 20 - 2PM (Reply to #71)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

I could have written this

I could have written this reply myself six months ago in fact I did. I had heated words with people on this board over something I said didn't fit. So I stayed around on the board months and months still in pain not getting any better. What I came to find out is that it fit actually it fit like a glove but my conscious mind simply would not accept it. I actually believe that my denial of it was protecting me from the sub conscious pain underneath that I was not yet emotionally prepared to deal with. I was in shock and awe from the barc and that's all my mind could handle at that time. If you stay in one of these relationships there is something inside of you that needs to be dealt with. Don't take my word for it go and read what all the experts in this field say. People who have a healthy image of self don't stay in these relatiobnships w pathologicals they just don't. They are gone at the first sight of abuse. I'm sure you will find this offensive as I did but if you do your internal work you will find what I'm saying is true
Mar 20 - 3PM (Reply to #72)
Steph
Steph's picture

I don't find this offensive.

I don't find this offensive. I do, however, find it a bit pushy. I'm sorry, but please don't assume that just because I don't believe in codependency that I haven't done my "internal work". I have. I have also been with 2 therapists as well, one a pyschologist....who also does not believe in "co dependency"....and she's an expert too! So, again, I respect your opinion and that this fits for you, but it doesn't work for everyone. Let's agree to disagree:)
Mar 20 - 8PM (Reply to #73)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

Glad you are not offended.

Glad you are not offended. When some people suggested issues within me, I wanted to tell them all to F off that I was attacked by a predator that was unprovoked. So I was expecting a F off. Everyone comes to their own truth in their own time. Im just glad and grateful I have found mine. I am not healed but Im also not in bondage anymore.
Mar 20 - 7AM (Reply to #67)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

Go to gettinbetter.com and

Go to gettinbetter.com and read shari schreibers stuff on borderline pd. It is suggested by many experts that those who attracted to and stay invloved with a pdi beyond the first signs of abuse are core wounded in some way. Whether its called codependence or not. He did not cause your core woundedness. He merely ignited what was already there
Mar 20 - 12PM (Reply to #68)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

If I may

I also don't agree with sick of it's co-dependence theory...in that it doesn't apply for me...but I still love ya scoop:) BUT I do think scoop may be on to something in MY CASE with the core-wound theory and why I might have ended up with the narc and why I might have stayed and that is a "classic" theory. For me, I suppressed so much I was unaware of...so it may be that an apporach such as take what you like and leave the rest may lead you to some awareness...and there was a good article she led me to that I posted that kinda explains how society as a whole kinda set us up for some of these "behaviors" in terms of being molded by "expectations" which sent us some really warped messages making us ripe for taking abuse. Just sharing...
Mar 19 - 11PM (Reply to #49)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Stayingstrong

I am on the same page as you but sickofit posted a good article today that I really think expains it for us who don't buy into that model...it spoke of how society in a way molded us as women to BE co-dependent with all the messages...it kinda supported my position but was better written...LOL It might be further down this thread.
Mar 20 - 12AM (Reply to #56)
IncognitoBurrito
IncognitoBurrito's picture

Yep

Because society tells us, we can't be pretty AND smart. We can't be assertive and stand up for ourselves when need be, without being labeled a bitch. We have to be meek and mild. We can't be CEOs, or successful, without having that same bitch label slapped on us. Yet, if a man is self-confident, and self-sufficient... hey, he's THE MAN! If he's juggling 3 girls at once, people say he's a pimp. But those girls, neh, they're just "whores." They are seen as interchangeable, and can be replaced. But not the men! They're MEN! Heh. We're supposed to be sexy, but not too seductive. We're supposed to look foxy in a bikini, but then we're not taken seriously. We're objects of desire. We're supposed to be motherly, but not homely. Wives, but not nags, on and on. Lots of conflicting messages! When the truth is, that all women are a little bit of everything. We can do it all, there is no limit for us. We give life, we raise families, we are the breadwinners now. At the same time, there's this sort of unsaid message, in the media. As women, we're taught to compete with one another. We're supposed to just understand that we are each "disposable," on some level, for the next, hottest thing. Which keeps us competing, or makes us depressed. It's really kooky. All the messages. All we can do, is stay true to ourselves.
Mar 20 - 12AM (Reply to #57)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Here's my gripe incognito...

Because society tells us, we can't be pretty AND smart. Actually we can be pretty and smart, but if we think it aobut ourselves, we're VAIN and conceited...stuck up...we're "narcissists" We can't be assertive and stand up for ourselves when need be, without being labeled a bitch. ABSOLUTELY...or "AGGRESSIVE" or "Feminist" or the "L" word or we need a man...humph! We have to be meek and mild. "Act like a lady...think like a man"...I could B slap Steve Harvey for that mysogynist piece of work! We can't be CEOs, or successful, without having that same bitch label slapped on us. Of course we can, we can have it all...and we can cook up the bacon, fry it up in the pan and never ever let them forget whose the man, and do laundry, food shop, car pool, go to the soccer games and empathize with him for "how much he works" and does "so much" as we go to the fridge to bring him a beer after a hard day of work because...he just works sooooo hard... Yet, if a man is self-confident, and self-sufficient... hey, he's THE MAN! If he washes the dishes, it's worthy of a parade! If he's juggling 3 girls at once, people say he's a pimp. I'm not even gonna go there...*High Five* But those girls, neh, they're just "whores." Actually...hmmmmm - nah, just in the dark... They are seen as interchangeable, and can be replaced. But not the men! They're MEN! Heh. ASSHATS! We're supposed to be sexy, but not too seductive. We're supposed to look foxy in a bikini, but then we're not taken seriously. We're objects of desire. We're supposed to be motherly, but not homely. Wives, but not nags, on and on. Lots of conflicting messages! ALL CREATED BY MEN!!! I just got pissed again:(
Mar 20 - 2PM (Reply to #66)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

"Act like a lady, think like a man"

I read recently that Steve Harvey sent his ex-wife some roses&chocolates... with a gag order in it. And he's giving relationship advice???? "We're supposed to look foxy in a bikini, but then we're not taken seriously"- The ex-Psych prof would NOT take me seriously at all if I dressed in a feminine way. If I was tomboyish, he liked it... but I got called a slut if I wore a dress or a skirt. "Lots of conflicting messages"- The ex-P would looove lecturing me on what my role as a woman was supposed to be... and he got it all out of Tolstoy's stories. I mean, he confused reality with fiction so much he needed a padded cell. He wanted me to lose interest in concerts&lectures and be totally centered on him... because that's what Natasha the Ideal Wife&Mother does in "War and Peace" and the younger wife learns in "Family Happiness" (after her much older husband emotionally abandons her, humiliates&insults her) My mother aptly said about the ex-P that he "studies women too much." I know a conservative Catholic priest whose view of women is much more realistic&respectful than the ex-P's! And when he uses the word "feminist", it's NOT as an insult! The ex-P thought his views on women were so Mr. Family Values (yet he took on his girlfriend's maiden name when he married her, she was very butch&androgynous, had a crew cut like him) I think he really wanted a woman who was a daddy surrogate... so if you've dealt guys who are seeking mommy surrogates... they have slightly more real expectations than a guy who wants his woman to be like dear ol' Dad.
Mar 20 - 8AM (Reply to #62)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

Holy Shit

Ya'll read alot more into the codependency thing than I do. For me it has zero sexist issues. I make ALOT more money than my husband. I am not codependent with him. I work in a male dominated profession and I can hang. For me this about me having grown up with the idea that if you do this you are good and if you do that you are bad. Where is should of been oops sick of it your behavior was bad you are not bad. You see I simply wrapped up all of that together. I did not separate the two. Codependence is about something being wrong with your "being"
Mar 20 - 8PM (Reply to #63)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Sickofit

I don't think we're reading so much into co-dependency issues, I think the issues we're raising are separate issues...
Mar 20 - 8PM (Reply to #64)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

No I get the whole society

No I get the whole society issue now. Now that I think of it was society that taught my parents and their parents that child rearing and discipline had a shame element to it. I know for a fact that my parents had no intent in their to harm me. They were simply unaware. They were only going by the script that our society gave them on how to raise "good kids" unfortunately that script didnt include emotionally healthy with it.
Mar 20 - 8PM (Reply to #65)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Sickofit

I concur and the script is in need of some radical revision... The after-effects are generational and may have a lot to do with why so many personality disorders are running around... I was talking with a friend about this today... and June came up...LOL And how in your case, it is fortunate that you didn't witness abuse but how while the name or the diagnosis "narcissist" evolved in 1967, Narcs had to be around for a very long time... AND how certain "June Cleavers" did what they were supposed to as "good women" and "stood by their man" and dealt with abuse, and their children were subjected to the abuse...and "June" is still married to the Narc, while their offspring are running around rampant abusing victims. In the 1950's true fact...Dogs had more rights and protectsion against abuse than children did.
Mar 20 - 12AM (Reply to #58)
IncognitoBurrito
IncognitoBurrito's picture

Hahaha!

I think that now would be a good time to let you know, I'm brutally sarcastic. If you're going to dissect that post literally... you're bound to get fired up. These are the messages we're given, not what we deserve. Things we're told to be/want/do/have. Unpiss yourself! Haha! For all the trouble, we still manage to meet and exceed most of those standards... those DOUBLE STANDARDS-that's how crazy skilled we've become. ...until, we SNAP and end up institutionalized, of course!
Mar 20 - 8PM (Reply to #61)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Incognito...Now Hear This...

I am officially "Unpissed" until the next trigger which could come at any moment... LOL
Mar 20 - 1AM (Reply to #59)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Incognito...

LMAO!...seriously though...at 43 is when I became aware you know? AND I'm really angry... I hear my mother and all her delusional theories and I play the tapes and I've only come to realize that she was abusive and abused and it was all one great big fruit roll up of S*IT!!! And how my entire life has gone to the toilet because of these excuse me...F'ING delusions and I have sooooo much crap to clean up With my childhood issues, boyfriend issues, narc issues, now I'm figuring I must have done some damage with my own parenting issues... and issues and I'm fed up with men, I don't respect them, I feel they're weak...and I'm like all these "happily" married people must be living a f'ing dream!...Well, not all of them, but you know some, I mean I have this friend, from the outside, she looks like she has it all and you know I don't think she's unhappy - know why cause she's in a F'ING FOG!!! I asked her one day all unenlightened... "How do you do it? How do you make it last" AND you know what she said?..."I dont have any expectations"...WTF? BUT SHE'S happy!!! Happy without expectations...but she has FIVE FRIGGIN KIDS...she's the OLD...BEAUTIFUL woman living in a luxury SHOE...and she is the sweetest thing...and she's not unhappy but I can't wrap my head around having no expectations...but she has no clue!!! Her ignorance is BLISS!!! What train did I miss?
Mar 20 - 1AM (Reply to #60)
IncognitoBurrito
IncognitoBurrito's picture

Michele

Hey, 43's still bangin'. You don't have an expiration date. Appreciate today. Society likes to tell women that we're chopped liver by 30. It's another lie. You might be mad because you made mistakes, but everybody does that. You can't beat yourself up, because you didn't know any better. We work with what we know, and we do better with what we learn. By now, you know yourself, more than you ever have. You're self-actualized, if you will. You have a grasp on who you are today, how you got here, and everything that led up to it. It makes you better able to give damn good advice! Moreover, you're smart enough to know where things f-ed up now, and how... even if the WHY is ever-elusive. The WHY and Ns go hand in hand, I think. You're being way too hard on yourself right now! You should really give yourself SOME credit for coming out of the mess, out of the fog. Some will never be able to do that, unfortunately. We can get so caught up in thinking how far along we should be, based on other people's lives. I do this sometimes, and it's self-defeating behavior. It's like we're playing the N/Ps endless negative reel of tape in our own heads now. Thus, the abuse happens without them having to be present. It has to stop, in order for us to be able to move on and function. I'm still working on that. That said, I can't pretend to know the secret to a good marriage. However, I certainly DO have expectations. I have about a million of them! Haha! Sometimes, I just have to let things be what they are. Having less expectations probably means, giving up the illusion of control. The 1st step! I'll let ya know if I ever master that between now and 100. (Don't wait up!) Haha!
Mar 20 - 12AM (Reply to #52)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Stayingstrong...GO TO.../Article location

The thread from Beamoflight Why is she better to him than me?...something like that... It was started tonight... I wrote a response to beam of light and underneath is the link. I don't want to re-post again, I've been spreading it everywhere I thought it was good. Hugs!
Mar 20 - 12AM (Reply to #53)
Steph
Steph's picture

Thanks for finding it for

Thanks for finding it for me:) I read the article, and there is definately a lot of truth there, I think. I still don't agree with the "co dependancy" model though. Still kinda has a "victim blaming" connotation to me. I don't know, it just seems like most of the criteria for being a "co dependant" is just actually being a caring and decent human being.....wanting to feel needed/loved, wanting to help (not enable) etc. You could have all these qualities or "criteria" and be involved with a normal person....and it wouldn't be an issue. The problem, to me, lies with those that EXPLOIT our compassion. I dunno. Maybe I'm narrow minded. lol
Mar 20 - 2PM (Reply to #55)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

michelle

If you didn't know who made this post? Wouldn't you have said it was me six months ago? Omg I made a post that was this word for word Nothing against you staying strong everyone is at a diffferent stage of recovery. The important thing is that you take an active role in your recovery. Yes these people are pure predators they harm innocent people that didn't deserve it. BUT for those of us that stuck around to feel the full brunt of their abuse have to get to the why. If you do like I did and spend months and months runinating and thinking like a victim then you will stay in pain much longer than you need to. I was and still am slower in recovery than most as I was extremely resistant to accepting any responsibility or that I had any issues. As a result I suffered panic attacks, boils, hives and a general feeling of unwellness.
Mar 20 - 12AM (Reply to #54)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Stayingstong

I think it's just different strokes for different folks...like I said before... Lisa wrote a good article today on being empaths... I think we've been brainwashed by society Then there is the co-dependent theory... We are all unique...we just try to find our way to the truth the best way we can. Hugs!
Mar 19 - 11PM (Reply to #50)
Steph
Steph's picture

I can't find it but will keep

I can't find it but will keep looking:)
Mar 19 - 11PM (Reply to #51)
michele115 (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

lemme see if i can find it...

checking
Mar 19 - 3PM
prettypeeved
prettypeeved's picture

There's definitely something

There's definitely something there for me. The mention on Shari Schreiber's site about having an abusive father and an impotent mother really brought it home, although he wasn't physically abusive and she did try to defend us, she just didn't "fix" the situation. Made so much sense as to how I'd get hooked by the likes of His Narcness, plus gives me something to work on and make sure I don't slip up like that again.
Mar 19 - 3PM (Reply to #46)
gettinbetter
gettinbetter's picture

prettypeeved

I sat on the board for months unable to figure out how this happened to me. I had read on codependency but it always seemed to focus around an abusive home life which I did not have. It wasn't till I read sharis stuff that I began to see it is about core woundedness that can have a number of originations. I wish every single person would read those articles. Pretty peeved now that you have read them take a break from them. In about 10 days or so go back and read them again and you will get even more out of them? Did you get sleepy when reading them? I totally did wild stuff!
Mar 19 - 3PM (Reply to #47)
prettypeeved
prettypeeved's picture

I kind of figured out that I

I kind of figured out that I should take a break for myself, for some reason! I just realised it needed time to settle into my head. It's funny though, the last few nights I feel so different. Suddenly I feel calmer, and I see the narc as something small and broken and dull and unimportant. I have this feeling of potency, that I am so much better than he will ever be. It's like I'm touching on a deeper level of understanding all of a sudden.
Mar 18 - 3PM
It'sAllAboutMeNow (not verified)
Anonymous's picture

Michell115

The information I posted that from that book also talks about how society DOES in fact set women up to be codependent. From the prince charming on a white horse in the Disney moves as you afore mentioned to the mags at the check out stand in the grocery store listing "10 Ways to Drive your Man Wild." Where are the articles title, "10 ways to Narcissisize your woman"? Hmm... now there's a thought. Too obvious... probably!! The book does also mention how your up bringing has an affect too. I was raised in a family that cared way to much about what the outside world thought. It's funny because I was always the black sheep who fought against conforming to all these so called norms in my up bringing. Although this stuff gets imbedded from early childhood and it's not easy to clean out. My family seems have been learning a thing or two from me on how to live life and not give a f*ck what anyone else thinks. You have definitely made some good points....