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Loss of Self

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#1 Feb 21 - 5PM
Susan32
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Loss of Self

This is from Leo Tolstoy's "War and Peace." Natasha Rostov, once she marries Pierre Bezhuokov, becomes a fat, rude slob like him. This passage is a literary description of what happens in marriage with a Narc, and what happens when the loss of self occurs. Reading this passage still brings tears to my eyes.

"in her (Natasha) face there was none of the ever-glowing animation that had formerly burned there and constituted its charm. Now her face and body were all one saw, and her soul was not visible at all. The old fire very rarely kindled in her face now... She took no pains with her manners or with speech, or with her toilet, or to show herself to her husband in her most becoming attitudes... There were then as now conversations and discussions about women's rights, the relations of husband and wife and their freedom and rights, though these themes were not yet termed questions as they are now;but these topics were not merely uninteresting to Natasha, she positively did not understand them... At home, Natasha placed herself in the position of a slave to her husband."

The ex-Psych prof would say that he wanted me to "lose my love of life"-because that's what happens when the psychopathic Anatole deceives Natasha and she attempts suicide. Of course, Natasha is described as Pierre's intellectual inferior. This passage sounds like US when we're under the spell of an N.

Feb 23 - 8AM
Goldie
Goldie's picture

Great topic Susan

That paragraph about what happened to her is chilling and something that I am sure we can all relate to and so sad how we all give up so much of ourselves to them until our lights are just about completely dimmed. The good news and the lesson for me today is that I NEVER have to allow another to hold captive my light, love, and enery source ever again. Life is too short give up your light to darkness. Today, I will allow my inner light and truth to shine brightly to the world and allow no one the power to dim my switch. Goldie
Feb 23 - 6PM (Reply to #10)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Let your light shine...

What's chilling about that paragraph is that Leo Tolstoy sees Natasha as the Ideal Woman. He sees the loss of the light in her eyes, her soul becoming invisible--as GOOD things. He explains Natasha's "outbursts" (her natural energy&spiritedness) as coming from her lack of a husband&children. The ex-Psych prof would quote these sections from "War and Peace" saying that I NEEDED a husband&children to "tame" me. What's weird is that the descriptions of Natasha becoming a fat, rude slob fit the ex-P... he went from being a slim, handsome man, somebody who could've landed a job in LA as a model easily... to being increasingly fat&rude. He'd always be pulling up his pants because he had gotten quite the belly. (I once joked to my friends that I wasn't "drunk and desperate enough" to have sex with him) What's chilling is that Leo Tolstoy sees Natasha's enslavement as a GOOD thing, "in service to the family." He speaks of Natasha giving her "whole soul" to Pierre when she married him... when only God is the one to love with "all your heart, all your mind, and all your soul" (as Jesus said) Natasha gives her whole soul to Pierre... and he orders her around, and the whole household is "on tiptoe" whenever he's studying or reading. And this is what Tolstoy considers domestic happiness.
Feb 23 - 5AM
Mariline
Mariline's picture

Dostoevskji also described

Dostoevskji also described perfectly narcs, with such a special hindsight. I think I will not visit Moscow and St Peterburg :-)))
Feb 23 - 7PM (Reply to #8)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Active Love

Leo Tolstoy advocated passivity, and Pierre in "War and Peace" is oft considered an exemplar of it. Passivity is so much a characteristic of Narcs, isn't it? On the other hand, Dostoevsky goes in-depth about "active love" in his "Brothers Karamazov." It's what Fr. Zosima preaches. Active love requires action. Sacrifice. Dostoevsky is quite good depicting Narcs... especially the psychopathic Smerdyakov in the Brothers K. Unlike Tolstoy, Dostoevsky was NOT a Narc. He treated his wives well. He was a devoted husband. Isn't it kind of fitting that Dostoevsky's grave is now a monument, while Tolstoy is buried in an unmarked grave? In the 19th century, Russian authors coined the term "superfluous men" to describe Narcs. "Superfluous men" were described as being incredibly bored with life, seeking out duels, and into unrequited love. I remember one of my friends during the final D&D describing the ex-Psych prof as a "superfluous man." Superfluous men accomplish nothing, purposefully seek out fights and "impossible" relationships. Prince Andrei Bolkonsky in "War and Peace" is described as a masculine ideal, tho he emotionally abuses his pregnant wife, abandons her (leading to her death in childbirth), he's unable to connect emotionally with his son, is so Daddy-enmeshed that he lets his father ruin his marriage to the pregnant Lisa (by poisoning him against her) and his engagement to Natasha... and he only comes alive when he's on the battlefield. When female readers of "War and Peace" gush about how thoughtful, enlightened, compassionate, and brimming with divine love that Prince Andrei is... I want to puke. Tolstoy is a better writer than Stephenie Meyer, but Andrei is as much an emotional vampire as the sparkly vegetarian vampire Edward Cullen.
Feb 21 - 5PM
victimnomore
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Susan32

Yes we do lose our love of life. Now that I am out I can look back and see how much i have changed in just 6 months away from my NH. I am literally physically stronger and so many people have told me how different I look. My 24 year old niece told me that I look so happy and this was before she knew that i had left my NH. They do so much damage emotionally and physically that it is hard to hide what you are feeling on the inside because it will show on the outside. I would say that I probably felt like Natasha and I also placed myself in that slave position for my NH.

victimnomore

Feb 21 - 6PM (Reply to #2)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

The Ideal Woman

What makes that passage chilling is that Tolstoy depicts Pierre&Natasha's marriage as ideal, and Natasha as the Feminine Ideal who is able to breastfeed without difficulties (Sofia had problems breastfeeding her first child&he emotionally abused her on account of it, threatened to kill her), divests herself of her femininity, and "stops her singing." The ex-Psych prof once said "I will stop your singing." In "War and Peace",Natasha stops singing... tho that is what brought her and Pierre together in the first place. Don't worry. I'm singing plenty. I sing at church. I sing to my baby nephew. I was singing on the phone to a friend.
Feb 21 - 7PM (Reply to #3)
alittledark
alittledark's picture

they suck the life right out of you don't they

I have been in a fog of sorts for the last two years. I love playing tennis and playing around on an acoustic guitar, but not lately. Haven't had as much desire to do the things I enjoy. My whole life has been put on hold to caress and please the exNarc....that feels good saying that. Glad to hear you are singing Susan.

I do not want the peace which passeth understanding, I want the understanding which bringeth peace.
--Helen Keller

Feb 22 - 6PM (Reply to #4)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

"How can I keep from singing?"

The ex-Psych prof claimed that if I got involved with him, I'd have to give up my music. Older men robbing younger women of their music is a motif in Tolstoy's stories. In "War and Peace",Natasha no longer sings when she's with Pierre. In "Family Happiness",the younger woman is playing the piano, and her older suitor rudely tells her to stop. Sofia Tolstoy herself loved&found fulfillment in music, but Leo basically outlawed it. He'd grudgingly allow concerts, tho he'd make nasty remarks. Pyotr Tchaikovsky,he of "Swan Lake" and "Nutcracker",practiced NC on Tolstoy... even walking in a way as to avoid him. Yes, a FAMOUS COMPOSER practiced NC! What's ironic is that back in my dorm, I'd listen to music all the time. One of my favorite songs was Enya's "How can I keep from singing?" It's a Quaker hymn, composed when the Quakers were persecuted in England. The hymn speaks of singing in prison, of singing under awful circumstances. What brought me to this forum is that back in '09,a classmate of mine died. She was closer to the ex-P than me... she stayed behind to be a professor, to teach choir/music. The ex-P wrecked my potential friendship with her my freshman year, telling her that I was stupid, emotional, etc. He did the whole triangulation. In '09, this classmate/professor died. She died at the young age of 40, in her sleep... the circumstances were never fully disclosed. Talk about lack of closure. What's weird is that 11 years ago, during the final D&D, I dreamt that she and I reconciled at a college reunion. Now that can never happen, or at least not in this life. Her song is over. It's like the circumstances of her death were so dark they can't be disclosed.
Feb 22 - 11PM (Reply to #5)
fierflie
fierflie's picture

oh man

everytime you write more about that f-ing psycho i get madder susan. what a piece. so, i have been getting from everyone 'wow, you look amazing'. when i was with him people would look at me that hadn't seen me in a while and look sad. they would say 'i didnt recognize you'. the thing is, i though i looked good. i became almost histrionic in my need to look 'perfect'. my hair was really light red. my clothes were really sexy and trendy, i talked in a little girl voice. gross, i'm so embarassed to even talk about it. i look at pictures from that time and my eyes.... i swear to you my eyes look SO dead. not like apsycho or anything, but like a beat down porn star. i had no sparkle. he took it away :( so sad. this is why i want ot become a psychologist, to help women get away from these guys.
Feb 23 - 10AM (Reply to #6)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

He didn't know the Real Me

It was my friends who said it best during the final D&D... that the ex-Psych prof didn't know the REAL ME. One friend said that I changed when I was around him;that I'd be happy around them (I was the life of the party),but gloomy around him when he'd snap "Be serious!" Another friend construed my declarations of love being "hysterical and love-crazed" and that wasn't the REAL ME. He rejected his idea of me, not the real me. It's like he didn't want to know the real me. When I volunteered at a local school, he raged... I compared him to a toddler. I didn't really discuss my family with him, for fear he'd insult them. (He even insulted Clyde Tombaugh, the discoverer of Pluto, back in '97 who taught at New Mexico State) No wonder it stunned me when I saw him with his girlfriend... it was like looking at me. He went for a woman who was my duplicate--and even more so, his. She was more masculine than me... outdoing me as a tomboy. When she was with him, she was so serious... they didn't smile or at least put on the "We're so in love" act that some Narcs are expert at. The ex-P seemed to think the only way to keep a woman was to get her pregnant (he saw pregnancy as proof of heterosexuality)... I came to the stunning realization that the very month I left New Mexico was probably the month he impregnated her (I had been NC on him) Nobody liked being around him. He brought such gloom that his students despised him... and his colleagues avoided him.