What was the worst to overcome?

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#1 Jan 28 - 1PM
neverlookback
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What was the worst to overcome?

If I were ever asked what was the most difficult to overcome having been in a relationship (if that is what you want to call it) with a psychopath I would have to say: Ridding yourself of the illusion he presented to you, not only in the initial beginning but through out the ENTIRE ordeal. Yes I know their mask eventually comes off but there is STILL an illusion that remains that does severe psychological harm to those that have experienced it. That is why they are still with you LONG after you leave them or they discard you.

I have come to see as I have dug out of that dark tunnel that it NEVER was the man that was causing my pain but the DISORDER the man had, even though you may think they are one of the same its really not. You could line up 20 personality disordered individuals and what is indicative of this illness is what does the most damage. Think of all the same behavior traits they have and what it did to us, how many times have we said and thought OMG is your narc my same narc? NO, its just the same disease with the same outcome. He is just a human of flesh and blood that happens to carry the disorder. Maybe I break it down too much but in my healing I no longer say how could this man have done this to me. I think of it on terms that what he did to me was exactly how this DISORDER damages others.

Why do the books say, IT WAS NOT PERSONAL WHAT HE DID TO YOU, he will do and has done the same to everyone he is with, nobody is exempt from the harm they spread in society, the disorder does not work that way. I guess I prefer to view him now as a mentally diseased person and try to remember everyday I fell victim to a person that is inflicted with it.

Feb 1 - 7PM
iAmMINE
iAmMINE's picture

my worst overcoming...

was when I had to face that all these years that went by, the years and years and years, days and days and days, and minutes and minutes and minutes, and seconds and seconds, of not looking at mySelf was spent trying to look outward. to find my peace to find my acceptance to find my solitude to find.... ME ~~~ Keep Learning & Keep Healing ~~~ ~~~~~ The best revenge is to survive and be victorious over it. Nobody can take from you what you don't give them.

~~~ Keep Learning & Keep Healing ~~~

~~~~~ The best revenge is to survive and be victorious over it. Nobody can take from you what you don't give them.

Jan 31 - 5PM
ShaynasMommy
ShaynasMommy's picture

oh and to answer the original question,

The thing that I had trouble getting over the most is the time I wasted and all of the endless possibilities that passed me by because I was too busy screwing around with a stupid prick basically right out of highschool instead of living my life for me. As a friend put it, I could have been doing just about ANYTHING else and it would have been time better spent than working my ass off on a sham of a "relationship" with the ex. That I mourned deeply. There were many things that I had dreamt of doing from childhood (backpacking in Europe, volunteer work, getting a Phd in something)that went bye bye without me even realising it until it was too late. My twenties were supposed to be all about me enjoying life and learning about myself and instead I threw it away on trying to figure out a demon with a personality disorder. Between the relationship (it lasted 7 years total) and the recovery period afterwards, I lost almost all of my twenties and I was really pissed off about it. I can still do some of those things, only in a limited capacity right now because I am now committed to my husband and family, and I wouldnt have it any other way. But there is a time and place for the other and I totally blew that time. Fuck me, you know? I am, however greateful that I didn't actually marry the dick and have his spawn and stay for 20-30 years like some ladies have here. I really feel for them and say "for the grace of God there goes I." But fortunately, all women who come to this board are more than 50% toward full recovery IMO, because they have the courage to probe, get answers, ask more questions, and ask for help. The site is really something special.
Jan 31 - 4PM
ShaynasMommy
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neverlookback

This is very good insight, about the abuse coming from the personality disorder, not the human being himself. To a certain point, I agree with you and understand how thinking from this perspective can help some victims facilitate the healing process. I see things a little differently, though. I wholeheartedly respect other people's opinions here, so please don't imagine I am getting uppity because I disagree with you about narcs not making things personal. While it is true that they may be motivated deeply by a place of hurt and rage that was cultivated by a disasterous childhood, or genetics, or whatever....I believe that when a narc finds his target, the things they do become deeply personal to the victim. Its true, if it wasn't us, it would be someone else. It always will be. But the narc is trying to relieve his/her pain and rage in truly evil, calculating ways. In a way, its almost as insidious as some looney taking a gun into a crowded mall and shooting randomly. Yes, narcs are disturbed people, but believe me they know exactly what they are doing. They just don't give a shit. My ex narc did things in order to elicit responses that proved to him that he could cause me pain. Lying, cheating, smearing me behind my back, stealing from me and my family, depriving me of love and attention, putting everybody in the world and their needs above mine, etc, etc. To me, IT DOES NOT GET MUCH MORE PERSONAL THAN THAT. So, as just offering a different take on things here, not a criticism of anybody's viewpoints.....but remembering that what my ex narc did to me was in every way "personal"....is part of what kept me going with the NC and able to survive emotionally. If I looked at it as more of a disease than a personal failing, then I think it would have been easier for me to go soft on him and find myself back in his claws. I guess it helped me to think that even though a narc is inflicted with a disorder....they always have a choice in what they do. Addicts have a choice to give up their addictions, and while it is very difficult some do succeed with a lot of support and hard work. They deserve respect for that. There are those who are recovering but living proof that you always have a choice. I believe people with personality disorders are not special in that they should be held with soft gloves.( I hope that phrase made sense).
Jan 31 - 6PM (Reply to #40)
neverlookback
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i know what you are saying

I guess I was trying to convey that their behaviors or so similar that sometimes its like they all belong in a special ward, like those in nursing homes inflicted with alzheimers are in the alzheimers unit, etc... Mine should be in prison for his crimes however. .I believe that when a narc finds his target, the things they do become deeply personal to the victim. I agree, it was very personal what he did to us, but the disorder itself does not discriminate,if an individual has this disorder this is WHAT THEY DO to others, and every single one of them know right from wrong, but they DONT CARE. I should have been more clear, its personal to the victims, but its NOt PERSONAL TO THE DISORDERED PERSON INFLICTING IT, Its like another day of interacting with society to them, its the way they live. Yes you have a good point if we excused them because they had this disease that would totally get them off the hook. Can you just hear them say, "oh I am sorry I did that to you but you will have to let me off the hook because I have this disorder and cant help it." SORRY, WILL NEVER BUY THAT. They are not insane, the books say they are not even mentally ill, but yet they books say they are HIGHLY DISTURBED, geez you tell me the difference please? I guess if you are mentally ill you cant function in society. I enjoyed reading your views of the topic, and I can see your point as well - x0
Feb 1 - 1PM (Reply to #43)
ShaynasMommy
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"I should have been more

"I should have been more clear, its personal to the victims, but its NOt PERSONAL TO THE DISORDERED PERSON INFLICTING IT, Its like another day of interacting with society to them, its the way they live." -Oh, I got that part. I didn't think you were trying to imply that we shouldn't feel outraged over it. I am pondering, however, if in some way a Narc really is making his/her attacks personal. Because in some sick way it seems like they are trying to "get even" with the whole world for all of the hurts theyve suffered (real or imagined). If that's the case then it makes sense that there are so many victims out there, and the whole world should take it personally, at the least be very offended by it. But I guess most people don't even think about it until this happens to them! "Can you just hear them say, "oh I am sorry I did that to you but you will have to let me off the hook because I have this disorder and cant help it." LOL----yes, I can totally hear "him" say that. I have heard the ex N say things like that before. I didn't buy it either.
Feb 1 - 4PM (Reply to #44)
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture

SHAYNASMOMMY

you raised a real good point when you mention it as though they are trying to get even with the rest of the world for all the damage,abandonment, smothering, abuse,etc, done to them as little toddlers, because when I reflect back the ex narc treated all the 5 major relationships with women in his life the EXACT SAME WAY, it had NOTHING to do with onmwithmylife in the slightest, I was just #5 of the women for him to take out all his anger and frustrations about women onto. It is thanks to dear ole mother that he became like he did and will never have a clue as he dies from his cancers. I use tot take it all so personally and think why can't this relationship be fixed while he never thought for a second he had any part of the problem and to this day thinks it is all my fault.I guess NPD is an integral part of the person, while a mental illness like you said, may have more to do with chemical imbalances in the brain or genetic imbalances.
Feb 1 - 8PM (Reply to #45)
almostlydia
almostlydia's picture

I came to that conclusion a

I came to that conclusion a while back, that they are taking out all that rage on the world, one woman at a time and enjoying every moment of it. It is like a life of payback time for them. I don't doubt it one bit. As I have come to learn however, it is not just women who are the unfortunate ones. I don't doubt the exN is doing the same thing to all his 'boyfriends' as well. And Shaynasmommy: There is a life after all the children have graduated and moved on. All those things are still possible and most likely more enjoyable than when in your 20's. almostlydia

almostlydia

Jan 31 - 7PM (Reply to #41)
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture

nerverlookback

I agree they are highly disturbed yet why not call it a mental illness, lets ask Betty or Lisa and ask why not?I guess a personality disorder is not the same as a mental illness?
Feb 1 - 1PM (Reply to #42)
ShaynasMommy
ShaynasMommy's picture

Im wondering....

If the difference is that a personality disordered person is that way because of the way their lives have formed their views of both themselves and society (via abuse/neglect from parents, etc)....and a truly mentally ill person is ill because of a chemical imbalance or a genetic disorder of the brain, etc. The former sounds like it would be something more treatable (that is, if the suffrer wanted to seek out treatment) and the latter might not be so easy to treat. IMO, a disease is something that is present in your body that you really had no control over, like a syndrome you were born with or a virus you caught. I know everybody classifies the definition of disease differently.
Jan 30 - 7PM
StillHurting
StillHurting's picture

I agree....the time

You can't get it back, and I really thought that when his kids were older (and they are now), that we would be together. He said his marriage was SO BAD, and he was staying for the kids and to keep the home together. I actually agree with that decision, although the research says it is bad for kids when the parents stay in a bad marriage. So just realizing a decade has gone, and I am no better off than I was when I met him, and in fact, I am worse off. Also, overcoming the way he trivializes the relationship now by saying to stop bringing up something that happened in the past....yeah, right
Jan 30 - 5PM
victimnomore
victimnomore's picture

The Worst

The worst to overcome for me is the amount of years that I wasted trying to make something work that was clearly unworkable. I tried everything and totally ignored that I was miserable for a long time. It got to the point that I didn't even want him to touch me sexually. I knew for a long time that i could never be happy with him but i pushed that feeling deep down in my gut and just struggled to fix him and be there for him. I felt like it was my obligation to make sure he was on the straight and narrow (he was anything but) So i am really having a hard time accepting the loss of years but i am still here and i have some living to catch up on :).

victimnomore

Jan 31 - 3PM (Reply to #36)
mystwoman
mystwoman's picture

You couldn't have describe

You couldn't have described the worst part for me any better, victimnomore. This fits how I feel PERFECTLY. I tried so hard, for so long, and I was so miserable. It got so I didn't want to him to touch me sexually either. His mistreatment of me was getting so ugly, and he was getting so abusive that I also didn't want to be alone with xnh at all. The term "sleeping with the enemy" truly applied in my relationship with xnh. It got to the point that I would actively try to have someone else around us whenever possible. This was very hard for me as I'm very much an introverted type person, and normally want a lot of privacy. However, xnh treated me better in public than he did when we were alone (mostly I'm sure because he didn't want anyone else to see what an abusive turd he was to me). Other people would not have found xnh to be NEARLY so charming, if they saw him doing things like throwing his cell phone at me, telling me that he wished I'd just go away and die, or that maybe if he beat the sh*t out of me, I'd divorce him. Like you, I've lost a lot of years living in torment with xnh instead of really living. However I'm not nearly dead yet, and I intend to do a lot of catching up, too. :) ______________________________________________________ God sometimes removes a person from your life for your protection. Don't run after them.

______________________________________________________
God sometimes removes a person from your life for your protection. Don't run after them.

Jan 31 - 3PM (Reply to #37)
victimnomore
victimnomore's picture

mystwoman My

My NH use to throw his phones and mine. he did not care what he damaged during his fits of rage. He was just a big baby and I never want to see or talk to him again, That is my mission now. If only i could do it all again with the information I have now. LOL But at least we get to live a life free of them and their craziness!

victimnomore

Jan 30 - 3PM
terri
terri's picture

the wasted time

I'm having such a hard time with losing all the precious years of my life - years that I was raising my children and also trying to rebuild a career - years that I spent trying so hard to work things out with someone who was just manipulating and lying. I look back over a decade and have very painful memories of so many horrible days, nights, weeks and months of pain, sadness, confusion, frustration. And the worst part is that much of that time I spent questioning myself, trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. I know that I'll have problems in life as I move forward without him but I so hope I can get back to a place where I am mostly content and confident and truly enjoying life. Not enjoying my precious life for a decade is the worst thing that the selfish narc did to me!!

Believe in yourself!
Terri

Jan 30 - 5PM (Reply to #34)
neverlookback
neverlookback's picture

THe one thing we can never get back

is TIME. I can get back my dignity, respect, my shattered life, my joy, trust, and all the damage he did for the most part, but I can never get the years he took off my life. For that reason ALONE I wanted revenge but then he would only take MORE years off my life and he has taken enough already.
Jan 30 - 11AM
helldweller
helldweller's picture

the moments of truth

Yes, these moments are the hardest thing to overcome, because they suggest to us that maybe, just maybe these monsters have real feelings, are really victims, are reallly hurting. After I found out about his many other girlfriends, I invited him to Mass at the beginning of Advent, to make peace. He actually showed up and stood at the back of church. At the sign of peace I went to him and he had tears in his eyes and he embraced me and was shaking and said, I'm sorry" and shook my hand and held it and said, "Peac be with you." And he looked at my daughters with tears in his eyes. I remembered his cocky attitude all those years, the manipulation and lies, his nice clothes going out every night without me, pretending he had to work, and I saw him that evening with his little wrinkled face and big ears and little gym shoes and his baseball hat in his hands and I wanted to die. This scene shows up in my dreams every single night. I also remember when he went to California to see the OW and lied to me about where he was going. I was so mad and told him he could go there and then go to hell for leaving me again. He got down on his knees and begged me to stay with him. "I can't lose you," he said. "I can't." I honestly believe today that he was absolutely powerless to not go to see her. I saw him, and I know his lies and bullshit, but that wasn't it. He COULD NOT stop himself from going.
Jan 30 - 7AM
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture

I remember on two

occassions where the person I first met and fell in love with, could have been, one was a time we were going out to eat at a restaurant and out of the blue, as we walked into the door, he said"you are the most perceptive person I have ever met." and I had a horrible cold but still remember his comment and then years later as we both flopped down onto the bed, he said"you look incredibly young for your age." those 2 times in 15 years the personality disorder left him for fleeting moments and I firmly believe he was not trying to extract something from me, but just became REAL for a short time. Strange how those two comments will stay in my heart forever, not because of flattery but because of who he NEVER could be and the disorder once again took him over.
Jan 28 - 5PM
Amazed
Amazed's picture

This is true, how disordered they are

And that is why no one will ever win with them, connect with them, or have a 'relationship' with them, they are honestly not capable of such. Great perspective, it was the disorder that does the damage. I chose not to be involved with someone who has that disorder.
Jan 28 - 5PM
Allie
Allie's picture

Great post!

I think the hardest thing to overcome or accept has been knowing that I meant NOTHING to him, so many wasted years on this a-hole. You're so right, he will do the same thing to anybody that lets him, so sad!
Jan 28 - 4PM
betty2020
betty2020's picture

Acceptance and relinquishing

Acceptance and relinquishing the idea that I had control. These were the most difficult for me to accept. I knew he was sick. I knew he was out of control. What i didnt know or accept was that this was out of my league to fix it. I am a fixer. I want everyone in my life to be normal, healthy, safe and happy. It took me over 40 years to understand the concept that i am powerless over people, their decisions, actions and the psychological/physical conditions that plague them. I lost my mother to cancer. I fought the doctors, the hospitals, god, my family. I thought they could fix her if i fought hard enough. I spent days, months and years in search of the "fix". In the end, i lost the battle. Accepting that I am not able to fix anything within the confines of my external environment was the most difficult reality i had to wake up to. On the flip side; this is what woke me up and brought me the greatest sense of peace and contentment in my life. Not only can I not fix it, I no longer have to live a life of misery struggling to try. I have a choice and today i chose to not waste my life on things that are out of my power and control. As you can imagine, now I have time to do the things that are important today. Like take care of myself. Its a great feeling of freedom. xoxo Betty only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

only one way to go...Forward (tm?)

Jan 31 - 7PM (Reply to #28)
StillHurting
StillHurting's picture

Betty

This is the same thing I do. If someone is having a hard time or needs something, I try to help them. I, too, have to realize I can not change anyone's mind or their behavior, even if it is not in their best interest. I can give advice or whatever, but I have tried to hold on to things and deal with people that others would have just walked away from after a very short time.
Jan 28 - 6PM (Reply to #26)
ally2375
ally2375's picture

Betty - beautifully put

I struggled to accept that I couldn't control my situation, as well. I am also a fixer. I truly thought that if I just showered him with enough love, I could make everything else fall into place. Not so. There isn't enough love to be obtained from others to compensate for the love we each need to give ourselves. It's like filling our cars with diesel fuel. It will never be enough because, even though it's all fuel, it comes from the WRONG SOURCE. What I still have a hard time accepting is that he probably never knew me any better than I knew him. I wasn't wearing a mask, but he was so singularly focused on manipulating me emotionally that he never got to know who I was apart from the current woman he was trying to keep on a string. What a shame. I feel like I saw the man separate from the PD, and he was worth knowing and loving. How sad that he is so encased in this disorder.
Jan 28 - 6PM (Reply to #27)
onwithmylife
onwithmylife's picture

ally2375

I like what you said about his being encased in the disorder, so true, it has become his identity, his shell of a personna
Jan 28 - 4PM
venuslovedpluto
venuslovedpluto's picture

Awesome...

...that you're able to look at this in such a healthy way and not place a heap of blame and shame on yourself with this experience. As people very much in touch with our conscience, it's difficult to comprehend someone's extreme departure from that. It still puzzles me. Like, where do they put that? How the hell did that disconnect so completely? I asked exN once, don't you feel bad knowing that things you did so seriously hurt people? He told me; "Of course but all relationships are enter at your own risk. And there are no guarantees in life." Lol! These were phrases I liked to use and had expressed to him before but in a much different context. In my mind, "enter at your own risk" is not even on the same planet as what seemed to be his interpretation ----> "free for all! You trust me now so I can do whatever I want to you even though we're sleeping together and I have the key to your apartment! Yeeeaahhh!!!" I'm a little less naive now. I think that's what I struggled with the most, the depth and extent of his betrayal. I hated him for it. For a good while. I thought, wow- so this is what you think of me. He'd known that I used to dance topless, I put a huge amount of responsibility on myself, right there. I decided that he saw me as a whore, that maybe I deserved that, that's what I get for ever working a job like that and trusting him with that information. But I blamed him too, thinking okay fine if you think I'm a whore but have you no soul??? How could you treat me like you accept me as I am, look in my eyes and tell me you love me, sleep with me, even though you see me as this piece of shit, and make that all okay? I was so disgusted because looking back, I never saw a trace of guilt or discomfort on him either. He was all smiles. So even-keel. I took that to crazy places in my mind, deciding he was so disgusted by me that in his mind he made me trash. Not even a person at all, soulless, because of that job. I was so despondent after he D&D'd me, upon finding out about his wife (telling me he played me, used me, never loved me- after knowing him for 5 years), I picked up cocaine after having not touched it in over a decade and went on a month long binge. I can't believe I'm alive. I can't believe I'm admitting this here, this is so hard. And sorry you guys for making myself seem like a once in a blue moon pill popper for the pain through it, it got a lot worse than that. I spent 15 grand in 3 months (unable to work or focus- I chose distraction), I really don't know how I'm here. And he knew too, he'd moved right down the street from me. Which confused me, it made me think he cared about me. I let him know I was messing with the blow, I think I wanted him to save me from myself. But he was horrified, ignored me almost completely. I went down further with it, torturing my soul with it, punishing myself. And he was busy texting his wife; "are you sure we can't work this out?" (She called me and told me). I eventually got it together, stopped with the coke but was stricken all over again by what felt like more betrayal. How could he not even care?? He hadn't even been worried. At all. I was upset at myself for wanting him to be, upset with him for being unmoved, I was so messed up- so confused. I decided I was worthless, disgusting. I've never cried so much in my life as during that summer. I did clean myself up though and then there he was again, trying hard to work his way back into my world. On his terms. On the fringe of course too. And now guilting me about the drugs. More confusion. Rollercoastered all the way here, where I am today. Now though...I'm starting to be able to look at this a little differently. Thankfully. There were two people involved, two participants, not me tied up captive, helpless and tortured. He was manipulative, horribly selfish and careless -true- with two women who trusted him with their bodies and hearts. That's pretty awful. He was abusive to a vulnerable person (me) and probably to her too. I do know that he told her she was overweight and because of that he wasn't sexually attracted to her anymore, conveniently omitting the fact that he was pursuing me. I believe that counts as abuse. He used my mom to gain trust and proxy. But damn, look at me- look at my decisions. My manipulation. My deviation from self. My dependence on him. My trust, I gave that to him. I made that choice and ignored the signals from my own intuition, they were there the whole time. I can accept all of this. I think I'm learning a lot. Thank you so much to everyone here, for your words and your intelligent insight, I am so blessed to have found you all here. I am growing from this, at one point I thought this whole experience would only amount to damage and more regression for me. Thank you for accepting me here as I am, for not judging me, for your words and help. Mostly thank you for being awesome people, brave enough to trust again as you pour your hearts out here, willing to share not just to help yourselves but everyone else too. Pretty amazing.
Jan 29 - 11PM (Reply to #24)
almostlydia
almostlydia's picture

Wow! I am always deeply

Wow! I am always deeply impressed by the strength I see here and the sheer determination and ability to survive. On some of my lowest days this is what gets me through - I know I am a survivor and i will survive this. I hope you remember this too because you most certainly are and it will get you through too. almostlydia

almostlydia

Jan 28 - 4PM (Reply to #23)
Alive
Alive's picture

hi

' think I'm learning a lot. Thank you so much to everyone here, for your words and your intelligent insight, I am so blessed to have found you all here. I am growing from this, at one point I thought this whole experience would only amount to damage and more regression for me. Thank you for accepting me here as I am, for not judging me, for your words and help. Mostly thank you for being awesome people, brave enough to trust again as you pour your hearts out here, willing to share not just to help yourselves but everyone else too. Pretty amazing' I just want to say thank you to YOU, for being YOU. :)
Jan 28 - 3PM
blueeyes
blueeyes's picture

the hardest thing for me

Was to walk away from him at the mental hospital after the last round of "treatment". I explained to the social worker "who" he is as he sat there. When I gave my speech on PDI'S and how he can't change, I walked out. On the drive home I felt like I gave birth to a baby and gave him up for adoption. I kinda did in a way. I told him what he was, he seemed to see it and I walked. Three hours later he left a voicemail that said "you said I can't change and I can. I want to so bad. I want my family. I love you. You did more for me than anyone including my mother. I didn't mean all the things that happened. I will never hurt you again." Three weeks later he invaded my home and punched me dead in the face. The worst of this is seeing the "small" moments of their enlightenment of condition, knowing full well they may mean to understand at that moment, knowing yourself they are sick and they can't change even when they show desire from despair. Its a sad moment if you reached that far w your PDI.
Jan 28 - 3PM (Reply to #13)
Briseis
Briseis's picture

OMG, yes. I remember those

OMG, yes. I remember those very FEW moments of perfect clarity, on the Narc's part. They were so startling and heartwrenching. He knew what he was, and he hated it. It was like a drowning man who was suddenly on the surface gulping air and "real". And then, he was GONE. I thought when I got the RO, him kicked out and tossed in jail, he would be sitting on his shitty bunk with his head in his hands thinking "What have I done? OMG!" And maybe he did. For about six and a half nanoseconds :( Seeing those brief flashes of the real humanity just about tears your heart out. The hardest thing for me, in all this, was to ACCEPT that his real humanity WAS real, but it was hopelessly entrapped in his personality disorder. His disorder had defeated him a long time ago, and the worst of it was to admit he was indeed hopeless, at least as far as I was concerned. It goes back to Jen's thread about acknowledging there WERE good things about the Narc. Character qualities that were real and also good. Every Narc is born a human being. But their disorder destroys them, like a disease. And the hardest part for me was to know when to give up :( and let him go to save myself. To know that he even HAD a real illness condition, instead of relating to him as if he had a choice in how he behaves. I don't think people with PDs have the same choices. They are a victim of their condition. At the same time, I had to understand him like understanding an animal caught in a trap. Your heart goes out to the trapped animal, but it will tear your face off if you lean down to help. I don't want my face torn off any more. I am helpless to help. I have to walk away.
Jan 30 - 8AM (Reply to #21)
blueeyes
blueeyes's picture

briseis

Yes, it looks like you and I had the same toughest moment. No wonder you were able to slap me in life. ;) This does go back to Jen's post! I was confused yesterday and prob answered this under Jen's post as well:( I hope to see you all on the chat this snowy Sunday. I plan to sit on the laptop all day and chat! Take the day off. Luv ya
Jan 30 - 2AM (Reply to #20)
narcissizednomore
narcissizednomore's picture

giving up, briseis

boy can i relate to what you've just said. thanks!

narcissizednomore