Abuse

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#1 Dec 27 - 7AM
LinaS
LinaS's picture

Abuse

I hear a lot about narcissistic rage. And there's so many terrible stories on this board about mean and abusive spouses. But my ex-boyfriend never raised his voice to me. He never got angry, or even upset. He was patient and helpful and caring. Actually, he made his best to be the most caring boyfriend in the world. He once even drove five hours through a blizzard to help my father, who has a heart problem, to shovel snow.

This sometimes makes me doubt that he's a narcissist. And it's making it hard for me to feel happy that he's gone. I would never wish to experience the things that some of you brave and strong women in this forum have had to live through. But sometimes, like this morning, I can't help thinking that it would have been easier getting over him if he had been meaner. Now it's so easy remembering the nice guy. 

But then I started thinking about different kind of abuse. And realised that no, my ex-boyfriend has never yelled at me, or called me names or hit me or ignored me. But that doesn't mean that he hasn't been abusive. 

He has broken up with me several times during our relationship. Always telling me that we're not compatible. That he's not really in love with me. That I'm not the kind of woman he wants to spend his life with. Because I'm not getting a phD, or have lived abroad, or read the Economist, or like to drive very fast. He has made it clear to me that he chose to live with me despite all my shortcomings. That's a kind of abuse. 

He used to talk and talk about all his ex-girlfriends. Comparing us. Telling me about their faults, but also about their accomplishments. Their language skills, their intelligence, their impressive hobbies. Oh yes, I was always the best. Because I was...kind. But I could never compete with his big love. The one that got away. The supersmart doctor in chemistry who used to be a model and was his true soulmate. The one he still, six years later, would burst into tears over. No one was good enough compared to her. And he would let me sit there and listen and comfort him. That's a kind of abuse. 

He had other women. Maybe he technically didn't cheat more than once, even if I now suspect that he did. But he did cheat when my best friend was in hospital for a difficult operation. And he was always unfaithful in his mind and soul. Keeping other women as a back-up. Chatting with them on the internet, sending text-messages to them, meeting them for coffee, sleeping at their places when he was out of town. And he always made me aware of the competition. That's a kind of abuse. 

He withdrew himself from me. He stopped kissing me, and didn't want to have sex when I wanted to. And whenever I needed some kind of commitment he backed away. He made me act like a cat stalking a mouse. Waiting for the right moment to discuss our future without him running away. Always waiting and hoping. Happy for every little sign of love. That's a kind of abuse. 

And he left me without warning. One day telling me that he loved me and wanted to try for another baby, the next day announcing that it was too much pressure. He threw me away like an old sweater, and instantly replaced me with another woman. And he did it when we were supposed to be there for each other. When we had lost the most important thing two people could ever have together. When I was already weak and grieving and needed him the most. That's a kind of abuse. 

I have to remember this. 

Dec 27 - 7PM
Anne_
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dear Lina

Let me tell you something about abuse. I'm not proud of the fact that I can compare a Narc with an abusive but nonetheless non-Narc ex. Let me call him exN and ex-borderliner. So the facts: ex-borderliner hit me. He abused me sexually. He had this kind of episodes. When he wanted sex, and I didn't, he just took what he couldn't get. I stayed too long in this relation, of course, and at a certain point I ran away. He was an artist, and painted many really disturbed paintings. Had a porn addiction. Ex N never raised his finger against me. Never hit me, never even was angry with me. But he played this dirty mind games, belittled me, you can find my story with him here if you want to compare both http://www.vainencounters.com/forum/2010/10/31/annes-story when I compare both stories, it almost was a little bit easier to cope with the first. when he'd hit me, I yelled at him. I sometimes fought back. He would crack. He would become a more normal human being and he would regret it. He would cry, say that he was sorry, he admitted that he had a problem. He was willing to go into therapy. Don't understand me wrong, I'm not pleading for physical over psychological abuse, but I somehow find it more easier to understand. You are ABLE to fight back. with the narc, things were different. you FEEL that something is terribly wrong, but you just cannot put your finger on it. They try to get you down in an invisible way, and it's more difficult to stand up for yourself. I'm sure that you tried. But I'm sure that he shifted the blame on you. Because on the surface, they are quite normal people. They are no gloomy sadist, no openly raging alcoholics. So that made me really doubt myself. I hope I don't offend people here by saying this. I am by no means defending physical abusers, I'm only talking on the effect it has had on ME, and how I coped afterwards. I started seeing the silent form as abuse as a WORSE kind after a few weeks NC. You're left defenseless, because you do not get the chance to fight back, step up for yourself, and that's so inhuman. Hang in there Hugs, Anne
Dec 27 - 7PM (Reply to #18)
LinaS
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Oh Anne!

I'm so sorry to hear what you've been through. I have never been physically abused, but I can relate to the things you write about the mind games. That you feel that something is wrong, but you can't fight it. Maybe you can't even pinpoint the correct source of all your negative feelings. It's really insidious. Hugs, Lina.
Dec 27 - 6PM
Deidre99
Deidre99's picture

I think we were involved

I think we were involved with the same man. I am sorry you have gone through so much torment and pain. Torment is abuse. What is abuse exactly? Here is what I just found on websters.com: –verb (used with object) 1. to use wrongly or improperly; misuse: to abuse one's authority. 2. to treat in a harmful, injurious, or offensive way: to abuse a horse; to abuse one's eyesight. 3. to speak insultingly, harshly, and unjustly to or about; revile; malign. 4. to commit sexual assault upon. 5. Obsolete . to deceive or mislead. So, everything you describe most certainly fits this.
Dec 27 - 6PM
momoya
momoya's picture

Absolutely abuse!!

Lina S I wanted to comment on the part about anger and him never showing anger towards you. My ExN (i hate calling him my anything!!) had an aversion to expressing anger or fighting of any kind. Now maybe he intended to frustrate me and did crazy making things..but when I would ask him a normal d-i-r-e-c-t question he would say " I am not going to fight with you" ...so, by just asking a question was picking a fight? was it a tone? More to the point, he didn't answer the question. But I noticed he would get frustrated and would not been able to express his frustration, rather he would just deny he was frustrated. This seemed weird to me right away. The talk about his ex girlfriends to you is a big red flag. This is always an important talk for me with any new relationship. I never bad talk my exes, and I never dissect our relationship for the new guy, I just say it didn't work and try to keep quiet about the past...until I get to really know them. But I am also trying to see if he says terrible things about his ex, because if he does that is a red flag to me. I put the Narc through all of my "TESTs" that I give guys when I date them, or interested in them. He was different. I was with him 20 years ago at a very young age. He was in the military, he left, old story. But we just dissapeared from each other's lives. He said he always wanted to find me. That he thought of me. Yes, those could be truth and lies combined but I think he did really want to find me, but just to hurt me. The more you learn about narcs the less you can idealize the "good" times. The more you learn, you see there is no going back, it can never be the same. It will depend on how long it takes to learn this lesson and it will vary for us all. But from what I can see, NO relationship survives with a Narc and they end up alone or kill themselves.

momoya

Dec 27 - 8PM (Reply to #15)
MOORE
MOORE's picture

Hey Not feeling too

Hey Not feeling too confident about dating, so would love to hear your initial narc tests - what are they?what should I be looking for - right now my gut tells me they are all narcs!!
Dec 27 - 4PM
StillHurting
StillHurting's picture

My narc not too obviously mean

But he stopped being nice. All the same things many have mentioned in their posts. Control games with the phone, ignoring, making backhanded compliments, refusing to come over, not being supportive of anything, no compliments on talents and achievements of mine, withholding his attention, etc. He does have a wicked temper, and it took a while to hear him rage and slam the phone. Most of the time he talks nice, but totally withholds all attention and makes believe there is nothing here that ever existed for us, including his un-relentless love and actions to have me love him, etc. One messed up dude!
Dec 27 - 4PM (Reply to #11)
safyre99
safyre99's picture

OMG... mine did that too

OMG... mine did that too and never gave me a compliment and refused to come over a couple of times, wasn't supportive and was actually envious of my achievements, ignored me sometimes and wouldn't return my call or text for a day or two. He would tease to the point of being hurtful. He didn't have rages but I always thought he had anger issues and he would tell me sometimes that I made him angry about something... or this thing made him angry... and it was about small stuff or things that you might get a little annoyed over but not really angry. And, once in a while he would get a weird look in his eyes and I almost asked him about it because it kind-of freaked me out.
Dec 27 - 6PM (Reply to #12)
Deidre99
Deidre99's picture

safyre

I could have written this. He did the same things. He complimented in the beginning, but over time, he stopped. When we had been in the friendship stage all this time, he would go out of his way to take a pot shot at me. He too envied my career status...he made more of a big deal about it than me. Interesting, how these men follow similar patterns of behavior. I love your username btw! :=)
Dec 27 - 7PM (Reply to #13)
safyre99
safyre99's picture

Thank you!

Thank you Deidre! :-) That's a good point about how these Ns are all so much alike and behave similarly. At first I was wondering if I was just making my exN out to be something he isn't and hoping he is a Narc so that way I really can say it was him not me, and make myself feel better, but after doing a ton of reading on the internet and reading so many posts on here it's amazing how similar they all act, and my exN has so many of the traits. It's incredible the emotional roller coaster you end up being on when you're with a N. My friends said I changed while I was with him, and more emotional, insecure, stressed, nervous, and that he didn't make me a better person, he made me worse. But now I'm getting back to my old self, thank goodness. So that's a good thing, and it's a step in the right direction!
Dec 27 - 4PM
Briseis
Briseis's picture

All very good points! What

All very good points! What makes a Narc is not their temper tantrums, sleeping around, particular kinds of manipulations, name calling. What makes a Narc is a deep seated demand to be in control, of everything and everybody. All the rest of the things we talk about here are "symptoms" of that core belief of Narcs that they must be in control. When three people have the same viral illness, each of them will have very similar, but slightly different symptoms. But they still all have the flu. I've had it three times, and I didn't cough so much as others but I got the worst headaches of my life and can't stand any light. Other people cough up a lung.
Dec 27 - 6PM (Reply to #9)
LinaS
LinaS's picture

Control

I never thought about that when I was with him, but I think he actually used his thoughtfulness as a way to control me. He always wanted to carry all the shopping bags, because I have a problem with my back. That way he made me dependant on him. When he left I wasn't even sure if I would manage to go shopping by myself. But of course I did! That was just rubbish! All his travelling was also a way to maintain control. He did all the planning and was the expert on everything when we were away. He always asked me what I wanted to do, but in the end we somehow never seemed to have much time left for any of those things. We spent a week this summer with one of my friends, and she commented on that. She said that she found him very controlling. I have to admit that I let him do all these things. I thought it was lovely to be taken care of, and my wishes never seemed so important to me. I never fight to be in charge. But of course, that was one of the things that he threw in my face the night he dumped me. That I never take any initiative and that he always had to decide everything.
Dec 27 - 2PM
shortway
shortway's picture

He sounds alot like my

He sounds alot like my Ex-N....Very subtle..Well I was called a B in the nastiest tone early on,that was a red flag..and then something made me send a list of abusive behaviors to him..Probably his yelling..Then it was a little bit of things..like ..Always talking over me,yelling at me in public,not letting me kiss him,or come near him...But I am supposed to be at his beck and call...Then tossing me like an old sweater..for an OW..in the cruelest way..Nasty words etc...I am in the same boat as you..I know we must remember this..Sometimes I forget..But i can't
Dec 27 - 9AM
finallyletgo
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that is exactly what

that is exactly what happened to me...and i was curious abou tthe N rage myself.mine never did eiether..i think that some n's are passive aggressive ( well most) most the ones the are express their rage by withholding and punishing...i had a revealtion the last few weeks and i reazlied that mine did rage..he wold avoid me and give me silent treatment, not give me what i asked for..right after i confronted him with osmething, expected a commitment or told him something he did that hurt me..i think they do rage..but bceause they dont know to express anger in a normal way i think they use their rage by covert behaviors and punishments. it really is sick...all the things your n told you are classic...its really sick that they all must read in teh same manual..dont bleive it for a second..i know its hard..but i pormise my N told me all the same lines as to why he had to leave. its never about them and they dont undersatn it..bceause they are an neverending empty black hole..no one can fill them. ever.
Dec 27 - 6PM (Reply to #6)
LinaS
LinaS's picture

No, they really are empty,

No, they really are empty, aren't they? But it is difficult to remember sometimes. And therefore the need to write and tell and analyze everything over and over again, I guess. My ex-N didn't use the silent treatment. But he would distance himself physically, and when it was really bad, refuse to answer his phone. And he hurt me in these small ways. Like when I told him about my brother buying roses for his girlfriend, he told me that he didn't want to do that for me "because he had done those sorts of things in previous relationahips" That was a totally unnecessary comment, and I didn't expect roses anyway. But he said it to make me feel small and insignificant compared to his exes.
Dec 27 - 9AM
ImStrong
ImStrong's picture

Kyle they not only mimic

Kyle they not only mimic replies they mimic the best replies and answers..Lina you seem to be very profound and ediquette..by your writing and words I can already ense a calmness and maturity..One thing I learned about Narcissist is that they go after your insecurities and ego.. If you feel you aren't intelligent enough they will play on your intellligents and say everyone in the world is more intelligent than you..when I can clearly read your words and instantly get your intelligence. But oh no to a Narc you are below dumb.. You see what im saying.. They scope you and usually play on your insecurities and ego first..That's the building up stage..They won't exactly say your the prettiest girl they have ever met but ..they will constantly compliment what makes you pretty.. Then theres the building down stage aka wipe that smile off your face stage..Where now you hooked or comfterble with yourself because he build you up so high and your also now comfterble with him..he then starts picking away at what you thought was great and what you believed he liked..Like your intelligence..your eyes ..noise..breast etc anything that your either insecure about that he made you feel great about or things you originally worked hard for like your intelligence and beauty They build you up and then take you down. So the whole everybodies better than you and he just happen to know everybody greater smarter more pretty than you is a fake..he's playing on your insecurities and things you have worked hard on.. They are bullies.. You will always be under them because that's how they role with toxic relationships..You the fan he the star.. So quickly your handed that role and seated while he takes center stage.. Yo are consistently trying to get him to higher you and employ you in his world while he like a true employer in a interview says "Ill get Back To You" They never get back to you you will never get the job just like the rest of the women who apply.. Your resume which is your life your body your soul will always be looked at but always be placed in the draw while others qualify..You will never get the job with these people ever.. Hope you can understand that its not you..you are intelligent I can see that instintly..just like he saw that in you instintly but just like a bully and a underqualified Narc boss..you are never praised always overlooked..Now that's one of the worst abuse.. xx

"In the fiery pit lays a man with two faces.One is the face of a God and the other a face of the Devil.Beware He lurks your souls.Keep one hand on your heart and the other hand over your eyes. Let him walk pass you not into you.Ghost of love will possess

Dec 27 - 7PM (Reply to #4)
LinaS
LinaS's picture

ImStrong, thanks for all the

ImStrong, thanks for all the kind words! You are right. They are bullies of the worst kind, because they are so skillful. I never doubted my intelligence or my education or my choice of work before he came into my life. But I guess he always had to be the smartest. And he was really good right from the start at finding my insecurities.
Dec 27 - 8AM
kyle6999
kyle6999's picture

Abuse -LinaS

The man that I was in love with was exactly the same of kind of man. Never outwardly abusive. Always very subtle. He said and did the exact same things as you describe. Spoke about old girlfriends and how bright and successful they were, called them very, very often; went to visit them and stayed at their homes and on and on. He was very critical, but in such a subtle way, you did not even catch it, until much later when you had time to think about it and realize that what he said and how much it indicated that he felt superior to you and even disliked you and looked upon you with distain. I still can't believe that I stayed and tried to get his love back, the way it was when we were first together. You truly have my sympathies for how he treated you. The sad thing is that these sociopathic-narcissists have no feeling and will continue to go on and hurt others. They read you from the very beginning and know exactly how to manipulate you so that you will fall in love with them and they can manipulate you. Once they have your love and you have morphed into someone you do not even recognize, they are done with you. They are ready to move on. They do like to come back, if they cannot get another advantageous situation going on. The realization that you must come to is that they never really loved you at all. They are fabulous actors and can mimic what looks like true responses. I wish you luck and renewed strength. You will be fine and overcome. Kyle

kyle6999

Dec 27 - 7PM (Reply to #2)
LinaS
LinaS's picture

Thank you! Even though I'm

Thank you! Even though I'm sad that there are so many of us with the same experiences that is a great comfort. Subtle is a perfect word for my ex-boyfriend's manipulations. I don't even know if I would have realised what he did if other people hadn't pointed it out for me. Because he was a master at hiding insults in compliments. He used to assure me that I was good enough, but always in a way that made me feel that I wasn't. He always seemed supportive, even though he was the one creating the insecurities in the first place. He was friends with almost all his exes and former lovers. And since he worked in a different town and didn't have an overnight apartment he used to sleep at their places. I asked him not to, because it made me uncomfortable. After that he did it less frequently. But he made it clear it was a big sacrifice at his part. And I ended up feeling bad for not trusting him.