Damned if you do, damned if you don't

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Sep 22 - 7PM (Reply to #44)
hooklineandsinker
hooklineandsinker's picture

And: the night of the D&D

And: the night of the D&D when I expressed utter incredulity that this was any kind of a reason to be ending the whole relationship, he said: "But I say things only once". In other words, if you didn't pick up on the fact that "I should get up and get on a treadmill" is code for "I want to leave here NOW and don't dare to interfere with today's timetable or ask me to do one single thing with you today, including having breakfast together, even though it's your birthday weekend" that's your own stupid fault. I say things only once and I have no concept of discussing different options or plans for the rest of the day. My day is cast in stone and you should realise that without me ever having to go to the trouble of spelling it out for you. Jesus. My brain is fried even trying to type all this out.
Sep 22 - 9PM (Reply to #45)
anonymous
anonymous's picture

I Say Things Only Once

Well - at least you have proof that he is a narcissist and you can wipe away any self-doubt or guilt you may feel in diagnosing him. Who the fuck actually believes that shit? I say things only once. Who are you, the fucking King? (Or should I say Queen?) =) I think we're across the pond from each other ... but not sure if you ever watched the BBC version of Pride and Prejudice? If you did, picture Elizabeth Bennett saying to Mr. Darcy "Had you behaved in a more gentlemanlike manner." That's my shoulda, coulda, woulda if I could do it all over. Be Lizzie Bennett. ;-)
Sep 23 - 2AM (Reply to #46)
hooklineandsinker
hooklineandsinker's picture

Yeah Morty...

...the night I called to his place four months after being dumped, and he said the "I say things only once" line, I said "It's a RELATIONSHIP, not the army" Which I thought was a pretty good comeback ;) OMG. I literally just got through watching the BBC Pride and Prejudice! While Jane Austen is my heroine, and I adore watching this, it also made me so sad, because here is Lizzy sticking to her principles and telling Darcy to shag off, and all he can think about is getting back into her good books. She gets everything she wants/needs at the end of the day, just for being herself and sticking up for her own beliefs and principles. She is completely unafraid of him and teases him whenever she feels like it, and he reacts like a normal man - amused and slightly embarrassed by his own pomposity. She uses gentle humour to make a point and he GETS IT. Unlike a narc, who would explode with rage if you slagged them off even in an affectionate way. Or else, like mine, wouldn't, but would store up the rage and instead use it to D&D you months later. She is so loved and appreciated and adored by him by the end of the series, FOR REAL, and likewise. The contrast with my own life was just too much to bear. It is THE perfect love story, however. PS: Lady Catherine de Bourgh was clearly a narc though, don't you think? :)
Sep 23 - 2PM (Reply to #47)
better off
better off's picture

But it's NOT REAL!! It's a

But it's NOT REAL!! It's a book. I once saw a hilarious blog titled something like Edward Fucking Darcy Is Ruining My Life. So while we don't want to accept wankers like narcs, we also have to get "perfect love stories" out of our heads too.. because that's how these losers weasel their way in... by pretending to be Mr Darcy.... and doing everything he can to get into her good books (or pants). Because the sequel to that story would be him reverting back to the guy she told to shag off. Sense and Sensibility is a better story... where dashing Willoughby is the narc, her soulmate, and he absolutely crushes her.. and she is not interested in the "boring" Captain, but he's the one who truly loves her, and actually cares for her when she's ill, and wants the best for her. And in the end, she actually cares for him too. He won her with true, sacrificial love, and on their wedding day, stupid selfish Willoughby sits watching on his horse feeling regret I guess we're supposed to think. Boo fucking hoo, Willoughby!! lol
Sep 23 - 7PM (Reply to #55)
hooklineandsinker
hooklineandsinker's picture

But there was a narc in Pride and Prejudice as well...

it was the army guy who ran off with the youngest sister. He'd been grooming Lizzy up until then but she escaped at the last minute because Darcy told her all about his (the army guy's) shady past. In fact, I think a narc (also known as a cad or a bounder in those days :) features in most of Jane Austen's novels. I bet they got away with shit a WHOLE LOT more than now as well, because of the hugely inferior position of women in society back in the 1700s. Mr Darcy wasn't a narc - ok fine, he was a snob at the start and he was a loner, but he was ultimately honest and showed that he could change and grow. Which he did, as did Lizzy. Darcy started off being incredibly rude and cold to Elizabeth and everyone else in the town, in contrast to a real narc who, as we know, pulls out all the stops in the beginning to ensure that you think he's truly wonderful.
Sep 23 - 8PM (Reply to #56)
anonymous
anonymous's picture

Got Away with It More Then?

"I bet they got away with shit a WHOLE LOT more than now as well, because of the hugely inferior position of women in society back in the 1700s." I'm not so sure. I think back then, society spurned narcs. Sure women were treated like property and such, but there was the concept of honor. Today - we encourage individualism to the point of only looking out for number one. I think our way of living actually encourages narcissism, especially in men. And I think men get away with just as much, only now it's far more covert and mind-fucking.
Sep 23 - 8PM (Reply to #57)
hooklineandsinker
hooklineandsinker's picture

Actually, you're absolutely

Actually, you're absolutely right. That in fact is what made me cry at the end when I watched it recently. The sense of honour, society-wide, also contributed to Darcy getting his head out of his ass and doing his damndest to make it up to Elizabeth. Right on.
Sep 23 - 4PM (Reply to #48)
Meadowbrook
Meadowbrook's picture

Willoughby

I've thought about that story quite a bit lately. My narc was my Willoughby and my husband is the Captain. He has truly "won" me with his love and I'm holding onto hope that God will provide the spark that was missing in the past. Even if it never "feels" the way being "in love" with the narc felt, I know this is the real thing.
Sep 23 - 7PM (Reply to #52)
anonymous
anonymous's picture

Meadowbrook

I'm exactly where you're at. I just started reading Keeping the Love You Find and it talks about this. I'm not sure I'll ever get the *spark* back with my husband - in fact I know I won't because that would mean going back 12 years .... But I do know this - no one has ever loved me, truly loved me, as much as he does. As boring as he may be.
Sep 24 - 12PM (Reply to #53)
Meadowbrook
Meadowbrook's picture

Morty

Thanks for the recommendation of that book. I've been looking for something similar so I'll definitely check it out. I read your story and can relate. Amazing contrast between REAL love and FAKE love. I am learning to hold onto what is real and the allure of the fake is slowly, slowly fading.
Sep 24 - 12PM (Reply to #54)
anonymous
anonymous's picture

Slowly

I just wish slowly would hurry up. !
Sep 23 - 7PM (Reply to #49)
anonymous
anonymous's picture

It's True - I Thought He was My Mr. Darcy

But, Colin Firth aside (tee hee), Darcy is actually a wanker (you Brits have the best slurs). I have always loved P&P but always had a niggling thought in the back of my head that Lizzie really wouldn't end up happy in her marriage to Darcy. Gotta read S&S again - it's been a while. Sounds the like my husband might be the Captain. And the Narc, well he's definitely Mr. Wickham. >:-)
Sep 23 - 7PM (Reply to #50)
hooklineandsinker
hooklineandsinker's picture

Dude. Who you calling a Brit?! ;)

I'm Irish, me! The narc was (is?) a Brit but was constantly bitching about England. Hated it with a passion. And yeah! Mr Wickham. That's the one I was thinking of.
Sep 24 - 12PM (Reply to #51)
anonymous
anonymous's picture

OOOOOOPS

Bad assumption. Damn Brits! (just KIDDING) I'm American but got both English and Irish blood. No wonder I'm all F'd up. ;-)
Sep 22 - 7PM (Reply to #42)
hooklineandsinker
hooklineandsinker's picture

What I SHOULD have done....

....was, when he made the passive-aggressive remark about neither he nor his father liking "being told what to do" (narc code for "you've just made me come for breakfast with you, when I didn't want to but would NEVER DREAM of actually telling you that), was to give him a big, beaming, TOTALLY FALSE smile, a big kiss on the cheek and a big hug, and say, all bright and breezy and loud and false and brittle: "OK BABE, HAVE A GOOD DAY'S TRAINING!!" and turn on my heel and walk back into the apartment without a backward glance. That's what I should have done. Of course, if I'd done that, I would have been accused of being rude, ignoring him, being a psycho, and god knows what else. Again, damned if you do, damned if you don't. I'm beginning to think that should be the new name for this forum!
Sep 22 - 8PM (Reply to #43)
anonymous
anonymous's picture

Shoulda, coulda, woulda

I have so many of those moments now that I can see clearly where I shoulda just walked out on him. That's what NC had really helped with. Perspective. Seeing where I was abused. Where I was taken for granted and taken advantage of. I truly feel now that I was emotionally raped. I actually implied that to him after the D&D. I told him how hurt I was that he intervened in my life, got me to admit how unhappy I was in my celibate marriage - how he encouraged me to be sexual with him and then how he'd D&D'd me but still wanted me to be his platonic best friend. It was so fucking insensitive and played on every single vulnerability I had. His response? "The fact that you feel victimized by me is pure crap." Nice. Asshole. Oh yeah - when he D&D'd me, he actually said, "just don't make me feel like an asshole."
Sep 22 - 6PM (Reply to #40)
hooklineandsinker
hooklineandsinker's picture

Morty....

....heh heh! I guess they all have "hidden shallows"!!
Sep 22 - 5PM (Reply to #38)
anonymous
anonymous's picture

PS - before I knew was NPD was

Forgot - just like you.... came to that same conclusion and said those same things long before I knew what NPD was. In fact, I didn't figure out he was NPD until about four months after he D&Dd me. And it's telling how I figured it out ... my best friend says this is a huge deal: that a mutual GUY friend of ours was the one to point out to me that there's something not right about him and it goes beyond "mere" bi-polar. Our mutual GUY friend said, "I don't know what his problem is, but he had one and it's something to do with being too selfish and only concerned about number one." So I googled those phrases and low and behold, that's how I landed on NPD. My best friend says the fact that it was a GUY who pointed this out to me means a lot.
Sep 24 - 11AM (Reply to #39)
Meadowbrook
Meadowbrook's picture

Morty - Google

I figured it out before mine had a chance to D&D me. I googled "does not give gifts" and "teases women" and up popped NPD and my road to clarity! During my reading I had so many "dings" where things he did matched up exactly with NPD and several with sociopath/psychopathology which freaked me out even more. But it helped me deal with him toward the end and probably helped me break free with somewhat less damage than I might have had otherwise. Thank God for Google?! :-)
Sep 18 - 7AM (Reply to #33)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Lack of fair procedures

The ex-Psych professor justified his one-sided behavior because he was the teacher and I was the student. When I found out about the fiancee, he got mad and said his engagement was "private",he acted like it was some invasion of privacy. He claimed I had put him in an "awkward position." I told him he was FREE to tell me he had already met someone. During my junior year, when I was casually dating, he was complaining to his students on class time... but would tell me to my face "I don't want to talk about it." I felt the same way during the D&D, of me and the relationship being thrown away without me having a voice (and he knew he was free to talk) Emotionally, intellectually, it's painful.
Sep 17 - 8PM (Reply to #30)
anonymous
anonymous's picture

Read Living with the Passive Aggressive Male

and you'll have a better understanding of why he didn't, or couldn't, talk to you about his feelings. That's not to make excuses for his behavior - it's just to understand. And for you to come to the conclusion that even if he had decided to keep you around, HE wouldn't have been worth the effort YOU would have had to keep pouring into the relationship. You are truly better off without him, as hard as that may seem to believe right now.
Sep 18 - 7AM (Reply to #31)
hooklineandsinker
hooklineandsinker's picture

Good plan, will check it

Good plan, will check it out. Also, when dumping me, when I asked why he couldn't have told me about this when he started to feel this way, he cruelly said that in a previous relationship he had always been able to talk to the girl about his feelings/their relationship etc, but with me he felt he couldn't. Which made me feel like some kind of horrible scary bitch or something.
Sep 20 - 5PM (Reply to #32)
ShaynasMommy
ShaynasMommy's picture

OMG

what a bunch of bullshit do they really think we are that stupid? scrap his ass!
Sep 17 - 7AM
helldweller
helldweller's picture

damned

Gosh, this brings back memories. So many memories of trying to "give him space" after he pushed me away only to have him say, "See! You don't love me! You don't call me! You don't text me! You don't want to see me!" You absolutely cannot win. When I dumped him in January and started seeing someone else (after three years of neglect and abuse AND his total abandonment of our plans to marry and have children), he said, "See, it's a good thing I didn't marry you because you left me for someone else. It's a good thing we weren't married already when you found someone you liked bettter." WTF???????????????????????????????????
Sep 17 - 7AM
helldweller
helldweller's picture

damned either way

After he started d&d ing me, he started saying, "You're mad all the time, you're mean all the time" etc. and I just decided to start over and be my happy, outgoing self, seeing my friends with or without him, dressing up, writing, accomplishing, chatttering about my great life. This made him even more unhappy with me, made him hate being with me even more. The thing he hated most was when I accomplished something. The last book I wrote was dedicated to him and he refused to congratulate me when it came out. Refused. He later told me it was because I didn't mention him by name in the dedication. I wrote "To D" instead of his whole name. Interestingly, the last book I wrote I thanked him by name in the acknowledgements and he had a fit, telling me I am full of drama because I like "parading his business in front of everyone." Can't win for losing.
Sep 17 - 6PM (Reply to #26)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

No win situation

The same happened here. The ex-Psych professor hated it when I accomplished things as well. It turns out his colleagues liked me DESPITE all his trash talk... I was happily surprised when I looked at my transcript after graduation. With the exception of math, I had gotten good grades. And he had gone around saying how stupid I was.... who got the last laugh now?LOL... My senior essay advisor complimented me recently on my writing. A very sweet professor (not the romantic way, just a very good man) I don't bother acknowledging the ex-P in my writing. AT ALL. Haven't dedicated anything to him. Haven't sent him ANY thing saying "Thanks for being my inspiration" or "your writings on Wittgenstein and religion light the way." Haven't acknowledged his "achievements" either. I used to congratulate him, urge him on... but no more. I'm no longer around to tell him to meet his potential. He never acknowledged MY achievements, so why should I acknowledge his, unless in jest?
Sep 17 - 10AM (Reply to #25)
better off
better off's picture

double bind

My therapist calls that the double bind.
Sep 17 - 7AM
helldweller
helldweller's picture

damned either way

After he started d&d ing me, he started saying, "You're mad all the time, you're mean all the time" etc. and I just decided to start over and be my happy, outgoing self, seeing my friends with or without him, dressing up, writing, accomplishing, chatttering about my great life. This made him even more unhappy with me, made him hate being with me even more. The thing he hated most was when I accomplished something. The last book I wrote was dedicated to him and he refused to congratulate me when it came out. Refused. He later told me it was because I didn't mention him by name in the dedication. I wrote "To D" instead of his whole name. Interestingly, the last book I wrote I thanked him by name in the acknowledgements and he had a fit, telling me I am full of drama because I like "parading his business in front of everyone." Can't win for losing.
Sep 16 - 5PM
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Hating it when I was happy

The ex-Psych professor AVOIDED me when I was happy... especially when I was dating. He voiced his displeasure... to his students... on class time. If he stood me up at a concert or lecture, he'd say the next day snarkily, "Go be with your friends" or "I'm not THAT important." (A normal guy doesn't mind it if his girlfriend/wife or platonic lady friend hangs out with her friends--he just doesn't) After he D&D'd me and I met his girlfriend, I was able to coldly explain to him what he had done... with a huge, self-righteous grin on my face. When he commanded me to stop smiling, I stretched it to a Joan Rivers magnitude. It was nice to see HIM writhe in pain and go nuts, for once. And he acted like he had ZERO vulnerabilities and would intone "I'm controlling my feelings."
Sep 16 - 2PM
The Girlfriend ...
The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl's picture

YES! You are really getting it!

oop's double post! see below :-)