How to avoid feeling bad for them?

30 posts / 0 new
Last post
#1 Sep 13 - 2PM
blueeyes
blueeyes's picture

How to avoid feeling bad for them?

My H (since last week was given divorce papers) is really laying it on thick. I am a true in Empathy. So, this is a struggle and I look terrible and feel some guilt. Of course, I did not let him see this! Any advice?

Sep 15 - 4PM
Briseis
Briseis's picture

Take it a step or two

Take it a step or two forward in your thinking process. You are divorcing him. Why? Because he treated you like dung, abused you, violated you, made your life a living hell. And HE is boo hooing because you did what any sane and rational being would do -- you got the hell away. Poor him. Now he has to find another victim and waste time to break her in so he can have his very own punching bag again. For a man to feel sorry for himself because his abused wife left him is disgusting. A more "appropriate" feeling, IOW, than guilt for "hurting" him is disgust and what a pathetic, useless excuse for a man he turned out to be. And outrage that he would DARE to play the "hurt" card on you after all you have endured.
Sep 15 - 5PM (Reply to #29)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Playing the "hurt" card

When I wished the ex-Psych professor and his fiancee happiness, the ex-P played the "hurt" card. He claimed I was the one violating and imposing on him... when in fact he was the one who had done it to ME! By the time he pulled the "hurt" card, I didn't care if I was hurting him. He wallowed in self-pity, and I watched with a conceited grin on my face. Here was the man who had emotionally abused me, tried to break me, wanted me to misbehave, who treated me like dirt, violated me emotionally, and the more he claimed I was "hurting" him the more unrelenting I got. I felt ZERO guilt for hurting him. NOTHING. If wishing him happiness causes him immense pain and deals irreparable narcissistic injuries, then BRING IT ON!!! I was disgusted when he played the "hurt" card. He had hurt my REAL feelings, and by then I didn't care if he hurt. I honestly didn't care. If he had said "Stop hurting me",I would've kept doing it.
Sep 15 - 2AM
lisalisa47
lisalisa47's picture

PS i think we really end up feeling bad for their

lost POTENTIAL. Talent, charm, smarts, intelligence. All gifts they throw away in order to feed their demons, and we are the ones who mourn them for them.

LML

Sep 15 - 10AM (Reply to #26)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Lost potential

The ex-Psych professor's father is FAMOUS. I've heard him on the radio. He's written textbooks, a book on organic gardening, been interviewed on NPR/Discover magazine.... and his son is NOTHING like him. The ex-P's father is genuinely loved by his students (current and former) On the other hand, the ex-P isn't even on Rate My Professor. He hasn't written books,he's definitely NOT famous. It's like his own behavior has destroyed his chance of getting him the fame he craves. Self-sabotage. The ex-P was once very handsome 14 years ago, tanned and slim. By my senior year, he had a double chin and had gotten fatter. The ex-P used to wallow in self-pity about not being respected by his colleagues, about not being smart, about being not that good a teacher.... all came from self-sabotage. He once said, "I drive people away." Okay. Brief glimmer of self-awareness.
Sep 15 - 10AM (Reply to #27)
blueeyes
blueeyes's picture

Lost potential..WOW!

Hi ladies, It's Timmy12boy and my new name is blueeyes. My HN and his Mommy are snooping. Yuck. Anyway, I had dinner with a friend last night and she said "I should have spoken up at the wedding". I said "It's a shame because he has potential, I married potential. Ironic? Trust, then verify~
Sep 15 - 6AM (Reply to #24)
helldweller
helldweller's picture

lisalisa

That's what I was always conscious of: the waste, first of all--and then the fact that he didn't even know it. The fact that his life living the job that was given to him (which he didn't even like) and partying every night, and having no interests, hobbies, loves, passions or anything else--was a waste. I often got depressed when we'd go to see his older brother and his girlfriend. They had met a few years ago and fallen in love. Now the brother is an ass, but a regular ass---not a P and S or an N, I don't think--and though there is much to be desired, the two of them bought a house together, which they lovingly rehabbed and furnished with stuff they had collected from their travels together. On the weekends, they play golf and have a ritual brunch, just the two of them, and they take trips several times a year to see her family in Minnesota. My exN is about a billion times smarter, funnier, more entertaining, delightful, charismatic and attractive than his brother, and I always thought, Dammit, why can't he be with me how his brother is with his girlfriend? Noncommittal and selfish, but at least WITH her and with a desire to spend time with her and LIVE with her, interested in things. I vividly remember the final time we were there. It was on Easter. I had to beg for two hours for the narc to take us, and it was a mistake. He ignored my daughters and me the whole time. I remember standing in the doorway, getting ready to leave to go home (alone, of course, as we had come in separate cars, of course), and it was pouring rain outside. I looked back into the house from the doorway (I think I knew it was over and I wouldn't be back), and saw all the beautiful beams they had used for the ceiling, which they found in an old house in Iowa, the floor, which was made from the walls of an old barn in Illinois they had bought and salvaged, the old cemetery fence that divided the dining room and living room, which she had rescued from her hometown when they moved the old burial ground. I looked around at all the antiques from Provence and Tuscany, the remains of the huge dinner the two of them had cooked, happily, for their guests. I looked to the table and saw the brother and the girlfriend playing chess and kissing. And then I looked at the narc, and he was sitting in a chair, looking away, with the child in his lap, kissing him and beaming at him, totally oblivious to everything, especially us leaving. I remember thinking, everyone here is exactly where they want to be, except me. And we left. I used to say to him, "Why don't you go back into private practice since you miss it so much?" He'd say, "Why bother?" I'd ask, "Do you want to take a trip somewhere?" and he'd say, "Maybe someday." I'd say, "Why don't you have some people over and we'll make dinner for them?" And he'd say, "What for?"
Sep 15 - 1PM (Reply to #25)
lisalisa47
lisalisa47's picture

Well there's an argument for if they don't care if they waste

their gifts, why should we? You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. maybe we make it EASY for them to be lazy?

LML

Sep 15 - 1AM
lisalisa47
lisalisa47's picture

Yet a song i relate to, bet you do too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nN3zICfdKwk&feature=related

LML

Sep 15 - 12AM
lisalisa47
lisalisa47's picture

Here is how i deal with my SORRY feelings

Most of the times this works. today however, it is myself i am feeling sorry for LOL Everytime I start to "emphathize" with him again, I remind myself that it was HE who put himself in this position. I go over in my head, all the things he did with NO FEAR of how they would affect other people. Then i also remind myself that a small selfish CHILD has more empathy than this man had for his victims. AND, as far as the letters i didn;t read but still got the gist from my friends about them - I realize that he may have paid my "lip service" with a vapid "sorry, i stepped on your toes, pardon me" but the rest was ALL ABOUT HIM AND WHAT HE EXPECTS. I just hope for his sake that those hookers he used to pay to tell him he was wonderful, have a "heart of gold" when they find he has no money (or should i say No one elses money) to spend on them.

LML

Sep 13 - 11PM
Susan32
Susan32's picture

The whole "they'll never be happy"

While I agree with the FACTUAL truth that the ex-Psych will NEVER be happy, at an emotional level that would tempt me to pick up the phone and be at his pity party. No way. It works at a factual level... but for me, it would simply be the temptation to break NC and give him all the sympathy&supply he'll ever need. It would get me sucked in. And I DON'T NEED THAT. I don't feel guilty anymore about how I treated him, despite how he treated me... and if I treated him like cr@p, and left him feeling depressed, lonely and empty (oh, he already he is, watch me kick him while he's down!)... I would feel NO REMORSE. If telling him how HAPPY I am without him left him with that hurt, empty feeling, I'd tell him till my face was blue. If comparing him to my infant nephew left him feeling talked down to, I would not be rushing to apologize. He used me, took advantage of good qualities, lied to me... and if I did the same to him, well, wah. He liked being admired. He liked being hated. The one thing he HATED? Being ridiculed. It meant "not taking him seriously." If he knew how much I was mocking him online... he'd probably want to help himself to the beer he always kept handy. On these boards, I have ripped him in ways I would NEVER do to friends or family. In their case, it would be a violation. In his case, he was just asking for it. He WANTED to be hated. He WANTED to be adored. But to be ridiculed? No way.
Sep 13 - 4PM
jen79
jen79's picture

Timmy

You don't have to harden you heart. Stay the compassioned woman you are, just change a little bit your perception. By leaving him, you are actually doing him a favour, it is indeed the most compassioned act you can do, so he sees that his behaviour has consequences, what he makes out of it, is his choice, but you did the right thing.
Sep 13 - 3PM
helldweller
helldweller's picture

timmy12boy, WellRed and others

I can't stop feeling sorry for him either. I keep thinking of how freaking wonderful his life would be if he had the capacity to be normal, if he could give himself to me, allow himself to have a baby and live with someone who loves him the way I do. I see him so over the moon with his foster child, so taken with him, so truly in love with him, and I keep picturing him with his own little boy or girl on his lap, not someone else's, and I think, Jesus, He would DIE of happiness he if was capable of having his own child.
Sep 13 - 4PM (Reply to #13)
better off
better off's picture

No. He would not. How is

No. He would not. How is he incapable of having his own child? He's had a whole life to be normal, married, have children... He does not want a child, he wants a child OBJECT. He bought a child, a child that conveniently has NO MOTHER to get in the way of his objectification. Helldweller, I will be glad when you get far enough along in therapy to STOP focusing on HIM and start focusing on YOU. This man has not done one single thing to attract or earn your love except build a big house, that he won't even let you in. Why don't you start thinking about how freaking wonderful YOUR life would be if you would stop thinking about this slimy creep that you think you love so much?? What do you love? Seriously? What do you love about this man? Why do you feel sorry for him? And the question I have for every woman on this board is: WHY DOES FEELING SORRY FOR HIM MAKE YOU ATTRACTED TO HIM? When you were little did you imagine growing up and falling in love with some guy you felt SORRY for? Volunteer at a dog shelter and feel sorry for homeless pets, but get away from these worthless people!!!!!!!
Sep 13 - 8PM (Reply to #14)
helldweller
helldweller's picture

better off

I think why it hurts is because I saw how my dad changed when my mom left him. His whole life became about us; he didn't care about anything or anyone else ever again. I remember the last six years of his life, between the divorce and his death, every single day when I got out of school he was there, waiting in his car, saying "Do you need anything? Do you want to go anywhere? Anything?" And every single day he called my mom, told her he loved her, and apologized for the stuff he'd put her through. He brought her flowers, bought groceries, gave her all of his money after he paid his rent and utility bills, stopped drinking, went to church every week, etc etc etc. He was a righteous as*shole when I was a kid. The transformation, the true repentence, was astounding. I always imagined that happening to the narc. In fact, I mentioned on here that I used to pray that he would feel the pain of what he did to us. A conversion experience, you know? I guess I remember my dad, how unhappy and lonely he was, keeping himself away from us all those years, and how joyful he was just to be near us after he "woke up."
Sep 14 - 9AM (Reply to #16)
better off
better off's picture

The Narc Is Not Your Father

Ah haaaa... so now I see the reason. Because for the life of me, I have been mystified about why you keep hanging on and why you are so angry. Because you have not been very angry for what he's done to you, you seem to be a lot more angry about him not changing as he is "supposed to." But I couldn't figure out why you felt that way, why after all this time you still expected that. Sweetheart... this guy is not your dad. Actually, no guy is your dad. And it sounds like perhaps your father was an alcoholic and that caused his bad behavior, and therefore, when he went into recovery, he could change his ways and treat you better. Thank God for you that he was able to give you that. But your narc is not your father. He is a PSYCHOPATH. Psychopaths do not "wake up." Their brain is dysfunctional. You can't make his amygdala work properly. The key here is you saying "I always imagined that happening to the narc." And that's all it will ever be, you imagining it will happen. And in your imagination, you are the heroine, you are the one he returns to with flowers and groceries. Honey, do you know how many of you there are????? One of the first and most HORRIBLE steps in recovery is realizing you are not special to them. You never were. He used you. (You keep saying how all these other people "let" him do whatever he wants. So have you!) But the good news is, if you are willing to take the first awful steps of recovery, is that the next steps will bring you to the level of realizing that THAT'S OKAY! You don't NEED to be "special" to this pile of shit! You will wonder why in the hell you would want to be considered special by this scum! Helldweller, your father showed you he loved you, and that's something many members here probably weren't lucky enough to get. But stop casting this monster in that role. Would your father want you to do this? What would HE say to you? Keep throwing yourself at this loser? Keep damaging your life for him? Ruin your own children's lives for him? Or would he tell you not to do that, and to run far away?
Sep 14 - 10AM (Reply to #18)
wholeagain
wholeagain's picture

WERD

I agree with everything Better Off is saying here. Your dad wouldn't have wanted this for you...also, you didn't force your dad to change, he decided to on his own.
Sep 14 - 9AM (Reply to #17)
better off
better off's picture

ACON

Also please please consider attending Adult Children Of Alcoholics meetings. They are free for one thing. But a lot of this behavior you've been exhibiting is very familiar to people with alcoholic parents. It's a 12 step thing like AA is, but it addresses the issues of people who let their whole lives be controlled by trying to control the outcomes of relationships with messed up people. It will help, I promise you! And it will give you some real life people to understand and hug you.
Sep 13 - 9PM (Reply to #15)
almostlydia
almostlydia's picture

helldweller

Please take a look at the post Betty put up yesterday under 'An emotional day'. It was about these traumas, experiences in our lives that programs us to do the things we do and accept the things we do. It was full of incite. I have spent a lot of time thinking about these things and seeing things that were somewhat disturbing but necessary to understand if I am ever going to stop accepting the unacceptable. almostlydia

almostlydia

Sep 13 - 3PM
wholeagain
wholeagain's picture

Totally understand

This was my biggest struggle and even now I feel some of that. From an outsiders point of view however it's pretty plain to see what's happening and that this is nothing more than too little, too late. The only thing worse than a narc is a narc who's gotten you to come back. You're doing great my dear, stick to your guns. xoxo
Sep 13 - 2PM
Gracerella
Gracerella's picture

I filed on my soon-to-be ex,

I filed on my soon-to-be ex, and he laid it on THICK both before and after. Big tears, lots of "I'll change", "But I LOVE you" and "Dont do this to the kids" At first I hesitated and listened. Then I told him to SHOW me he can change, and then I proceeded with the divorce with the understanding that IF he changed, we'd stop the divorce. It didn't take long for him to start his old behaviors again, and every time he reverted was another checkmark in the "not a mistake" column. Each checkmark gave me more strength, courage, and determination. And now I don't even hear him when he starts up with the "poor me" stuff. I essentially gave him the rope to hang himself with while not waiting for him to surprise me with a miracle. It was the right decision. Hugs.
Sep 13 - 2PM
ShaynasMommy
ShaynasMommy's picture

just keep doin what youre

just keep doin what youre doin and ignore the BS. He will try anything, be forewarned. Try not to feel guilty. I know doing this is uncomfortable because its like you are attempting to change who you are at the core, but spend more time feeling empathy for yourself and your kids, not this dirtbag. If you say you will be rid of him soon, then you should be able to cope. Youve put up with his antics for 3 yrs now, so aonly a little more to go right? Youve come so far so fast already so don't ruin the momentum with a wasted emotion like guilt. I think you are particularly smart by getting all of your ducks in a row before you leave, if you can emotionally handle it. I know a lot of women here would say just leave because you are doing more damage to yourself, but I say as long as its just annoying crap and not physical or sexual abuse, and you can just take it for what its worth, then more power to you. That way when you go NC, you can sever enough ties so that you can have some peace to yourself and start the healing process. You are strong, you will def make it. And BTW....I never congratulated you on the birth of your son, way to go Momma!its amazing that you are coping this well. I suffered with a small episode of post partum depression when I had my daughter 6 months ago, and I don't know if I could have kept it together so well as you!
Sep 13 - 3PM (Reply to #9)
blueeyes
blueeyes's picture

Ty shanasmom! Your always on target

That's what it is, annopying BS, Boo hoo, wha wha wha, whoa is me crap. Your right , the hardest part is I am working on MY CORE and he is in my way. The kids have no clue what's coming, neither does H, so I have some guilt for the kids. I am not a liar and I am feeling like a liar snake that he is cuz I plotting the demise of this marriage. I am not leaving! He is! For good! You will be the first person I tell the story to. It's just not as soon as I would like but it will be soon. I will shut my ears until then. Also, it depends on my mood, if I am angry I could care less what he says and does. Today, I am tired because I finally went out dancing since my son was born! SOO tired so I am a little more inclined to feel bad. I need to wake up. I neve rlet him see me care anymore. He is starting to LOSE it!
Sep 13 - 2PM
WellRed
WellRed's picture

I don't know how to stop

I don't know how to stop feeling sorry for them. Myself, I try to remember all the rotten things he has said and done to me over the years and remember his lack of remorse for making me feel bad :(
Sep 13 - 4PM (Reply to #7)
The Girlfriend ...
The Girlfriend of Dr Jekyl's picture

He is Manipulating YOU...Doesn't Want to Lose His 'Supply'

You are stable and familiar 'supply' to him, and he doesn't want to lose his reliable source of supply in case things don't pan out with his other 'suppliers'...so to speak. Also, these guys really hate to be alone! It was hard for me to 'get this' concept of supply too. But now I can understand better why these guys do what they do. When I have left mine, he gets 'crazy' with panic! He goes out on the hunt for my replacement almost immediately...while at the same time he is crying, calling me constantly, doing the 'hearts and flowers', acting like he wants to die without me, gets 'sick', starts stalking me (which is hella scary!)...and manipulating me every which way to Sunday!...trying to get me back 'home'. They try to 'guilt' you to feel bad for THEM!...and trust me!...he is most likely really playing it up to others for their sympathy too...you can almost predict that the basic scenario he is going to play out is how 'hurt & destroyed HE is over this divorce'...and how it is YOUR idea...and look everyone at 'poor him'...how he doesn't deserve this...tried everything...yadayadaydada. These guys will do this 'heart's & flowers'...'I can't live without you Baby', etc....while at the same time they will be lying, cheating...go out clubbing and sleeping with everything in a skirt that's willing... These guys are SNAKES... Don't let him fool you! Write down all the things he has done that brought you to this time of separation and divorce... They always pretend to be 'Prince Charming' and a 'really great guy'...but you would not be divorcing him if he really was those things!... Forget love - I'd rather fall in chocolate!
Sep 13 - 4PM (Reply to #2)
better off
better off's picture

I stopped

I used the reverse of the golden rule... does he treat me how I want to be treated? Do I feel sorry for him? Hmm.. does he ever feel sorry for me? Do I feel bad about his pain? Hmm.. does he feel bad about my pain? I heard that his dad died and I had been NC for not long at all, and I thought, oh, should I go ahead and reach out to him since his dad died, out of compassion? Hmm... would he reach out to me if he heard my dad died? (the answer is no, but even if he did, it would be to get supply for himself!) The person who told me said she was afraid to even let me know because she was afraid I would contact him. I said, if the situation were reversed would he contact me? She said, no! And I said, well there's my answer. Should I feel compassion toward him? Hmm.. does he feel compassion toward me? I have zero compassion for a person that set out to lie to me, use me, and toss me aside. I don't CARE why he's the way he is. I have compassion for victims. I have none for perpetrators.
Sep 14 - 11PM (Reply to #6)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Great way of putting it

There are times when I feel "he screwed with me, he lied to me, he degraded me... so I'd do the SAME to him." On another messageboard, I've used actual titles of his essays for ridicule. Yes, he's become an object of ridicule--without knowing it (I haven't used his real name, but real titles are fair game) He showed NO compassion to me when my grandfather died. ZERO compassion when my pastor friend died. If he came to me begging for compassion, I'd ignore him. If I saw him bloated, ugly, and his good looks long gone, I'd be mocking him to his face... because he hated ridicule more than hatred. He lied to me, used me, and tossed me aside... I would have no qualms about doing the SAME to him. Several months ago, I had briefly broken NC to brag about how happy I am (it was in a mass email to various professors),it was an ALL ABOUT ME-mail, and mentioned I'd interview him for an article about vegetarians. Had he ever gotten back to me, I would've said, "I don't need you. You're not sufficiently famous."
Sep 13 - 9PM (Reply to #3)
almostlydia
almostlydia's picture

betteroff

You go girl. There is absolutely nothing I feel the need to add. You covered it all quite well:) almostlydia

almostlydia

Sep 15 - 2AM (Reply to #4)
M
M's picture

everyone

Don't feel bad for them. Remember the Ns make these choices on their own accord. And they repeat themm because they cannot LEARN. My xN--2 failed marriages, 3 failed businesses, numerous firings.. Hmm maybe he'd try some intraspective insight? NO! Someone else's fault!! Keep the N at arm's length.. with very professional contact. I cannot go completely NC because of our daughter--so I keep it to email only. He HATES it...because I keep my distance in public (soccer games), & I have alerted teachers about the scenario. )I just say that "during our marriage & especially now after the divorce, I cannot predict his behavior around me. Could we keep things separate?" The teachers comply. Good luck!
Sep 15 - 10AM (Reply to #5)
Alive
Alive's picture

predict his behaviour

I like this, these are the words that i shall use. I cannot predict his behaviour around me' cool thanks