The Path Forward Virtual Retreat Febuary 2021!



Forgive me for the new thread

81 posts / 0 new
Last post
Aug 3 - 3PM (Reply to #45)
almostlydia
almostlydia's picture

helldweller

I had to add a more understanding note - there is something far more disturbing than all the OW's combined that I can't explain when I began to truly see that mine had been with men, one in particular, but others as well. What I can't explain is how, despite my wanting this all to end for so long, this was the most painful ending because I would never see him the same or that somehow it was finally, definitely over - I don't know - it just was a crushing blow. You would think that well at least you know he'll never be with other women again anyway, but it doesn't work that way at all, at least not for me. I wish someone could explain this to me.

almostlydia

Aug 3 - 4PM (Reply to #46)
helldweller
helldweller's picture

almostlydia

It is just so devastating. I have thought, since yesteray: Gee he's not with those other women after all. They are just his female friends and he is gay. The babysitter has no friends who aren't gay, so this was a big flag right from the beginning. He never cared that people thought he was gay. His brother's girlfriend told me the younger brother is gay, and they go everywhere together in secret. But then again, I don't know if that's true that there won't or haven't been any other women. Look at me! He had sex with me for three years! I think, chillingly, that it just doesn't matter to them where they are getting it. It's like the fact that they don't have any taste in anything, don't like anything in particular, don't care about what they eat, what they watch, what they read, what they do, where they live--or which sex they sleep with. I also think that there is that ingredient of deviance and anti-authoritarism and so if they can screw a guy it's just that much more satisfying--killing two birds with one: the need for sex and supply and the need to break the rules. Just some thoughts.
Aug 4 - 12PM (Reply to #49)
almostlydia
almostlydia's picture

I agree with you completely

I agree with you completely - they don't care where they get it from as long as they get it- and the freakier the better I think. Mine had it all figured out in Dec on our last reconciliation. Having learned to read between the lines to get the truth, he was going to marry me and never fu*k around with 'women' ever again, 'I promise'. No matter how many times I said with 'NO ONE ever again' he said 'other women'. He had his new lifestyle all in place. Going to get all the appearances of a straight, normal life with me while keeping all his boys on the side. He even went so far as to say he was not going to sell his house when we lived together in mine. Guess the f*ck why??? I wouldn't even doubt if he already had his boy lined up to live there. WHAT a freaking nightmare it would have been. I just Thank God I had had enough in the years before he had totally embraced this lifestyle, to get the hell out fast when my gut started saying RUN. It is a very convincing argument to end everything permanently, tho. I don't know about you but I could barely look him in the eye after that. I just don't see him as a man anymore. However, I have no doubt he will continue to work on having women for cover because there is no way he is doing the 'gay' thing openly. It would devastate his big, man persona and expose years and years of lies to his clients and the few friends that stick by him.

almostlydia

Aug 4 - 6PM (Reply to #50)
helldweller
helldweller's picture

almostlydia

Oh, my God. Yes. You reminded me of the need to state things absolutely perfectly because they do that thing where they say, yeah, "I am not sleeping with anyone else," which he always told me, and now I'm convinced he was with all of them and he probably rationalized that since he doesn't have intercourse he wasn't techinically sleeping with them. I had to make him re-state things all the time like that. I also had to make him swear on his brother's life a lot, but I think in the end he wasn't even bothered by doing that--anything to get me to shut up and believe him.
Aug 4 - 8PM (Reply to #51)
almostlydia
almostlydia's picture

Mine would swear on his

Mine would swear on his Mother's grave, his son's life etc... He would say things like I haven't 'made love' in 6 mos. meaning that he was only fuc*ing all that time. For some reason he equated making love with me and fuc*ing with everyone else. It was all in the semantics so that he could say he wasn't lying. I read that somewhere too, that they were all about the semantics. He had his secret life and all his games and he couldn't live without them. That was how things finally concluded. I believe he tried everything to compensate if I would just let him have 'this' he would do everything else. Unfortunately, 'this' was everything. That was my situation and not what I see in yours at all. He is outwardly abusive. Mine was not. Time to move on girl. Mine never did the in the face kind of abuse that yours has and continues to do. He is rubbing your face in it. I'm praying for you to get to the next level and see it for what it is and for what it it doing to your relationship with you daughters. I know it's painful as hell. But time to do it for them if not for you. Do not let this piece of shit cost you everything. Imagine the difference in pride you will see in your daughter's eyes when you make plans to move away from this constant torture to you and ultimately to them. Please. There is a better future for you out there but you have to make it possible to happen. He is a freak with a freak life. Much strength to you!

almostlydia

Aug 3 - 4PM (Reply to #47)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

In the closet

My ex-Psych professor had many female friends... and they could've been that, friends. The fact a blonde senior girl went out to his apartment for dinner (he usually went for nerdy brunettes like the OW and myself), or that female professors surrounded him... could've been an illusion. My ex-P was extremely homophobic, yet he found homosexuality incredibly fascinating. He could find homoeroticism in anything. My mother noted it was odd that he lacked male friends his age. The male professors also outnumbered the female ones. For the most part, male professors who started with him tended to not get tenure. Unless he could use them. He regarded the older male professors as Daddy figures, so he feared ticking them off. He preferred younger male students for supply. My ex-P was steamed when I went to the Dean's office with some of my classmates to defend the tenure of one of my professors. He told me to sit back, the authorities knew what was right, how dare I, etc. Oh yes--it wasn't about him. He wasn't the one being defended&praised. "It just doesn't matter to them"-I found out something interesting in my research. Psychopaths tend to have LOW libidos, they're almost asexual. They see sex as dominance/supply. They seek gratification... but can't get any pleasure from it. Some people sleep around for the sheer pleasure of it, they DO enjoy it in a bodily way... but with Psychs (and perhaps Narcs) they sleep around, but don't enjoy it. It's just an exercise in dominance&power over another. They don't seek wealth because they like $$$ or enjoy spending it... but on account of dominance. But they do seek power for its own sake.
Aug 4 - 8AM (Reply to #48)
BlueMoon
BlueMoon's picture

Susan 32- OZ- from HBO- character

I still remember a character from the show OZ on HBO years ago...who is just as you described. He is played by the actor from Law and Order SVU, Christopher Meloni. Men, women, nuns, nothing mattered, as long as he could assert himself, using sex only for dominance and control. Every time I watch Law and Order I remember how amazing he was as this psychopathic character.
Aug 2 - 11PM (Reply to #44)
hitandrun
hitandrun's picture

Shut Him Down!

helldweller, If you ever doubted what a freak this man was...NOW YOU KNOW. Get out, move soon. I'm serious about doing this in stealth mode. My family had to get my sister away from her ex narc . Didn't tell the kids, got the U-haul packed, picked them up at school and LEFT. It sent a strong message after his abusive behavior. And come to think of it, he did "get his" in the end. It took awhile, but karma kicked him in the ass. He deserves nothing from you. Cut him off. It will suck. You will hurt.You are worth so much more than anything he can give to you. He's a freak...and not the good kind : ) NC all the way. He's bi or gay..either way, that is not what you want.
Aug 2 - 9PM (Reply to #43)
almostlydia
almostlydia's picture

welcome to my world, chica:)

welcome to my world, chica:) nothing like seeing your man with another man in a very questionable way to send you running for good. What does your gut tell you? I know any man that sleeps with a boy that age is fu*ked up, think Michael Jackson, and I'm still wondering why no one has called protective services for the sake of that child. Any way, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. I think you're about free now, don't you?

almostlydia

Aug 2 - 6PM (Reply to #42)
Lisa E. Scott
Lisa E. Scott's picture

Yikes

I agree with wholeagain, I doubt they were going over tax returns. I would definitely be skeptical. This is just further proof that you want NOTHING to do with him!
Aug 2 - 6PM (Reply to #40)
wholeagain
wholeagain's picture

If it looks like a date

dresses up like a date, and quacks like a date... I doubt they were going over old tax returns.
Aug 2 - 6PM (Reply to #41)
loveofmylife
loveofmylife's picture

:) â„¢

Ewwwwww!!!!! Helldweller, if we were in the same city, I'd love to pick you up and go out and have a good time! Do you have some guy friends you could go out with to get your mind off this prick! I can't believe this guy..... and I know how you feel, I am still going through it myself. I feel totally obsessed with who he is going out with....i can see it on his online profile and i still cry every day because I want to be that girl. I just want my chance to have been in a real relationship with him - but I've never been able to! But at least I'm not in contact with him so I don't hear "yeah, i went to the beach all day yesterday" (with a girl of course) or get emails/texts from him at all hours of the night (when he is coming home from dates)....that was the worst was getting an email or a text at 1am or 3am when I knew he was leaving someone's bed. It hurt beyond belief. So you and I both, now that we are NC will not be tortured anymore from that. And both of us need to close our curtains and drop the online curtains so that we don't know all of the dates they are going on! Question: Does Mattel sell a 12-pack of Barbie's for KeN; because I can't believe how these guys can go through so many women!!!!!!
Aug 2 - 5PM (Reply to #39)
better off
better off's picture

Nothing good.

Nothing good.
Aug 2 - 10AM
helldweller
helldweller's picture

A voicemail

After he texted me calling life with me unfit for a dog--and then texted me to come over and smooch with him, I got a phone call this morning which I did not answer, and he left a lengthy voice mail, totally unsolicited, saying that: -everyone wants to like me but I'm so difficult to like -I'm nasty to everyone -I'm mean to his babysitter -I hate him -I don't know how to act -I can't mind my own business -Everyone is embarrassed to be around me because I told them our private business -I'm still in love with my ex-husband -My ex-husband and I are perfect for each other bc we are both crazy and both love drama -I don't have time for him -I don't love him -My work is my whole life -I treat everyone like dirt -He's not giving me any more chances This was in response to my asking him to go on a picnic with me four days ago and then calmly stating that I couldn't be with him anymore if there was nothing to our relationship but sex. I just deleted it.
Aug 2 - 1PM (Reply to #37)
almostlydia
almostlydia's picture

We like you.

We like you.

almostlydia

Aug 2 - 12AM
helldweller
helldweller's picture

love of my life and Susan32

thank you. Yes, I realized right away that he had to bring out the big guns tonight because of the NC. Susan, I am so good because I totally realized the projection and had to try so hard not to throw it back in his face about his disgusting offerings to a child. He just wrote me this: "So are you coming over to smooch?" Who says stuff like this? I mean, how does this person actually think I'm a whore? I guess it's because I was acting that way all this time while imagining in my head it was something more.
Aug 2 - 12AM (Reply to #35)
loveofmylife
loveofmylife's picture

Yep

He thought you were his on demand call girl and you thought it meant something to him (becuase it meant something to you because you are human).... these KeNs have a great way to fool us and make us think that it is real because we are trusting and can't imagine that a "human" could treat another human like an object. Please, please just keep ignoring. I know it is hard...but you see him for what he is and so this is your window of opportunity to do it. Pray that he will find other supply - preferably non-human other supply and that he will leave you alone. Are you able to change your phone number and email? Yours is one I'd be concerned about....
Aug 2 - 12AM
helldweller
helldweller's picture

MAYDAY

Ok so four days no contact. I took my daughters to a big amusement park outside of Chicago today.They had a great time. For me it was highly difficult; the park was packed. I was alone. We were there for ten hours, juggling the rides one wanted to go on and not the other, making sure they had water, food, were right next to me. There were like fifteen thousand people there. We got home at 10. the narc texted me five minutes later and said: "I AM GLAD YOU ARE GONE BECAUSE I WOULD NOT SUBJECT A DOG TO LIFE WITH YOU."
Aug 2 - 12AM
helldweller
helldweller's picture

MAYDAY

Ok so four days no contact. I took my daughters to a big amusement park outside of Chicago today.They had a great time. For me it was highly difficult; the park was packed. I was alone. We were there for ten hours, juggling the rides one wanted to go on and not the other, making sure they had water, food, were right next to me. There were like fifteen thousand people there. We got home at 10. the narc texted me five minutes later and said: "I AM GLAD YOU ARE GONE BECAUSE I WOULD NOT SUBJECT A DOG TO LIFE WITH YOU."
Aug 2 - 12AM (Reply to #30)
almostlydia
almostlydia's picture

Imagine the day that the

Imagine the day that the moving truck is parked in front of your house taking you away. Imagine the message of that! It's coming. I know it is. I just hope that when it does it is FOR YOU and not with the small remaining hope he will come to his senses and beg you to stay. You know he probably will because, damn, who else can he believe actually loves him that he can torture so easily and perfectly. He is loving having you there and rubbing your face in it everyday. You are a dream come true. The question you have to ask yourself is, Is this what I want to be? and most importantly, Is this what I want my children to see me as? It's a sad day when your daughter looks at you like a pathetic doormat. I know this. It has taken much time to regain her respect which is extremely important to me because I have never been a pathetic doormat in my entire life. I think she sees it now. How I came back from this. I wish she understood what a battle it has been but how could she when I didn't understand it for so long. It was my survival that I want her to see and respect and I believe we are getting there now. If you cannot do it for yourself, do it for them.

almostlydia

Aug 2 - 12AM (Reply to #31)
helldweller
helldweller's picture

almostlydia

Yes, my older daugher has expressed disgust more than once. The worst experience of my life. They don't understand the deep involvement, no. They see it for what it is, and that's how we have to address it: for what it is.
Aug 2 - 1AM (Reply to #32)
almostlydia
almostlydia's picture

Yes they do see it in such

Yes they do see it in such innocent but truthful ways. My daughter was the one who never tolerated him, ever. Finally one day she said why would you keep dealing with someone who hurts you so much and treats you so badly. I believe she has now seen my strength after so many years. It isn't the messes we make but how we survive them that counts. But the disappointment I felt from her was so devastating when I thought I had kept things fairly discreet. She had seen all along. The day she told me she would rather move out and live with her father if I let him come back here again was the day I became absolutely resolved not to ever let him come back again. What kind of love separates a Mother from her children? Not one I ever want to be a part of. You're getting there. I know it. Enjoy your children. My youngest ( the same as above) moved out today to start college. And I am constantly on the verge of tears. Do it for them and you. Don't let this worthless man take your daughters away from you. Mine almost did. And it would've been the worst thing anyone could ever do to me. I thank God I was strong enough to not ever let that happen. He had almost made me look crazy to my children. Like I was completely undone. He tried to get to my son earlier in the summer and turn him against me. I feared that maybe he had succeeded because it was easy to make me look fairly crazy because I always took the high road. Thankfully, my son refused his job offers and believed in me. Because of the way the N has always made me look like the nutjob, I wasn't so sure my son would see. It was an incredible relief when he refused the job offer despite needing and wanting the job. I only say all this because I think this is the one thing we can never forgive ourselves for: to let some fu*ked up man destroy our relationship and possibly our image to our children. It is bad enough the regrets I have of all the years I was unwittingly forced to choose vacations and things with my children versus knowing in my absence he would be with his OP's. I can never get those years back. I can only try to make up for it now. I only say these things because they cause me so much regret that I hope to save someone else from it. Enjoy your daughters. In the blink of an eye they will be gone. And what message do you want to send them off with?

almostlydia

Aug 2 - 12AM (Reply to #29)
Susan32
Susan32's picture

Wouldn't subject a dog to an N like that...

Projection alert! Projection alert! Why is it that Ns/Ps take out the WORST of their anger on the people who have helped them the most? You gave him unconditional love, endless forgiveness, and he treats you like garbage. Ignore him.
Aug 2 - 12AM (Reply to #28)
loveofmylife
loveofmylife's picture

Hand me the barf bag! Just

Hand me the barf bag! Just smile and realize that your NC is driving him nuts...work on your healing and look forward to the day when you will meet a man who will appreciate you and treat you like a lady and welcome your girls!
Jul 31 - 12PM
Scoop
Scoop's picture

Helldweller

I totaly get that there is a snapping point with the narc , it is a point of no return and the line is drawn and nc has to go into place . I thought my line had been crossed many times but it was quite a small thing that set the ball into motion with no contact , i dorve the wank stain narc all the way to Nottingham and back when he told me he was going to get someone else to drive a hire car (my looser narc cant even drive)it fell through so i had to take him and on the way home i asked him if he could get me a coke at the servis station and he said "no i dont have any money ".... right there ,right then ,i snapped , i knew i had at the time and so did he as that night he tryed to cry to me "scoop , scoop i think im loosing you " he cryed for a long time that night and i turned my back to him . Helldweller youre narc like mine got violent but we didnt leave , they cheated on us and we still didnt leave it took a picnic and a diet coke for us to go , isnt live strange . love you girlfriend xx
Jul 31 - 12PM (Reply to #26)
helldweller
helldweller's picture

Scoop

Yep, in the end it's all about a diet coke. I remember the first time I really and truly thought I was going to leave. It was after the "domestic incident" and I was covered in bruises and two days later asked him to meet me on his step to talk. I asked him for a cigarette and the chain smoking, millinaire bastard who goes across the state line to buy cheap cartons by the dozen, said, "I don't have any."
Jul 31 - 11AM
helldweller
helldweller's picture

NC prematurely

I wanted to comment on when to go NC, because I tried it before and I couldn't do it, but I weaned myself and, yes, there came an actual moment a few days ago when enough was enough. And it had to do with being treated like shit while he treats his foster child, the disgusting, foul babysitter and total stranger better than my daughters and me who have been nothing by kind, giving, loving and trusting. He treated us loike shit for two years, though. It was a long process to get here. I am sure that if I'd found this board sooner it would have happened sooner, though.
Aug 1 - 11PM (Reply to #24)
girlfriday
girlfriday's picture

long process

It may have been a long, 2-year process to get there, but I believe that when it comes deeply and internally like that, it transforms you for life.
Jul 31 - 11AM (Reply to #23)
better off
better off's picture

It seems like your epiphany

It seems like your epiphany came with the fake movie-set of his "home." Which is not a home, but an empty house. Keep that image of the unplugged stove in your mind... that can work as your talisman when you have weak moments.
Jul 30 - 11PM
loveofmylife
loveofmylife's picture

Acquaintances

It is totally sickening isn't it???? That is what finally made me decide to give up....that these freaking Ns can treat someone they barely know better than us who have done everything for them!!! it really pisses me off more than anything. I asked N about this once, after the DDs started. His response "I think it is normal to be more polite to someone you have just met than someone you have known for a long time". But that was not the point....he would criticize me endlessly (and I am a high acheiver) and then praise someone else for wiping after they went to the bathroom. And to that he said "I have higher standards for you!" And yes, somehow finding time to do things with total strangers and not having time for we who provide them with so much! That was the most infuriating thing of all.. I finally decided that the only way he would ever treat me with decency again was to pull back...and of course when I tried to pull back, he dumped me in two emails like I never existed in his life! Please, please, please remain NC, you deserve so much better than this pile of Sh**!!!! He is seriously messed up and you deserve a relationship with someone who will treat you like a lady!!!! Please!